Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL And SQ End FF Relationship  
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Effective May 15, Delta and Singapore will end reciprocal earning and redemption opportunities for their frequent flyer programs.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/onemil...pore-airlines-relationship-to-end/

[Edited 2009-12-10 08:54:22]

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

This is also confirmed on DLs website

http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/airline_partners.php#SQ

I was afraid this would happen. This was probably the best carrier in the list you could go on. One of the great things about having SQ in the program was that you could use miles to fly in the F cabin. Now that will probably not be possible on any Skyteam airline if you have DL miles.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

Is this because DL is skyteam and SQ is *A.
Hmm, i can feel the heat between the 2 major carriers.



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

About damn time...remember their attempt at an alliance back in the 1980s/1990s - SQ/DL/SR...all quality airlines at the time...now look what happened...SR is gone and DL is questionable quality.

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5981 times:



Quoting Jayeshrulz (Reply 2):
Hmm, i can feel the heat between the 2 major carriers.

In what respect? DL isn't even remotely in the same league as SQ!


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5889 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 4):
In what respect? DL isn't even remotely in the same league as SQ!

You're right. DL is a far larger carrier, has many more aircraft, carries many more passengers, serves more destinations, has more FF's, etc., etc. You're right, DL is not even remotely in the same league as SQ, they're in a whole different ballpark. Want to give your little attempt at bashing DL another try?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5863 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 4):
In what respect? DL isn't even remotely in the same league as SQ!

Easy for you to say when SQ is more than 50% owned by the gov't of Singapore(Temasek Holdings) with unlimited resoursces, and no domestic network with competition to deal with.


User currently offlineS4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

I wonder if this is due to the fact that Delta FF miles have about half the value of the other major airlines.

User currently offlineSquared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5733 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 6):
Easy for you to say when SQ is more than 50% owned by the gov't of Singapore(Temasek Holdings) with unlimited resoursces, and no domestic network with competition to deal with.

That SQ is owned by the investment arm of the Government of Singapore doesn't indicate that it has unlimited resources. It, like the rest of Temasek's holdings still need to earn a reasonable ROI, which it has historically done.

And yes, SQ has no domestic market, but that's merely a function of Singapore's size. It's arguable that SE Asia represents SQ's domestic market, where it competes against a large number of LCCs, and other government owned airlines.

Also, unlike DL's domestic competition, which has largely similar cost bases (it's one domestic market), Singapore is surrounded by countries with much lower costs of living. That SQ has largely been able to thrive, is a testament to its (until recently) strong management, and excellent brand positioning.

It's true that DL is in a much different situation, and faces different circumstances. Many of these are market issues, but SQ faces analogous market issues as well. One doesn't need to minimize SQ's accomplishments in order to prop up DL's accomplishments.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5695 times:



Quoting Squared (Reply 8):
One doesn't need to minimize SQ's accomplishments in order to prop up DL's accomplishments.

I'm not propping up DL's accomplishments....in fact (as a retiree), I'm usually critical of some moves that DL has made, but SQ would not exist if it weren't for the gov't financing of the airline. Yes, it's expected to be self sufficient, but SQ is not exactly in the profit zone these days. The gov't still has absolute authority over what happens at Temasek. Not exactly a level playing field when compared to any US carrier.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10398 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5680 times:



Quoting Squared (Reply 8):
One doesn't need to minimize SQ's accomplishments in order to prop up DL's accomplishments.

I'm sure the reverse is also true, is it not?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineSquared From Canada, joined May 2005, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5608 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 9):
I'm not propping up DL's accomplishments....in fact (as a retiree), I'm usually critical of some moves that DL has made, but SQ would not exist if it weren't for the gov't financing of the airline. Yes, it's expected to be self sufficient, but SQ is not exactly in the profit zone these days. The gov't still has absolute authority over what happens at Temasek. Not exactly a level playing field when compared to any US carrier.

Many airlines outside of the US were created through government financing (see BA's precursor, AF, AC, etc...). They would not exist were it not for government financing. That SQ has been retained by the Government of Singapore doesn't indicate that they receive any funding from the government now. The Government of Singapore has made it clear that they place the value of Singapore as a hub over SQ's interests. Why else would the government permit QF to establish a hub at SIN to compete against SQ's bread and butter route?

SQ may be government owned, but I question whether it can be characterized as government controlled, at least in the traditional sense. Unlike the government owned entities of yore, SQ is more of an investment than anything else.

And while SQ is not in a "profit zone" now, it has historically been amongst the most profitable in the world. SQ's heavy reliance on premium passengers made it especially vulnerable to the GFC. SQ may still eek out a small annual profit for this fiscal year.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 10):
I'm sure the reverse is also true, is it not?

That goes without saying.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5552 times:



Quoting Squared (Reply 11):
SQ may be government owned, but I question whether it can be characterized as government controlled, at least in the traditional sense. Unlike the government owned entities of yore, SQ is more of an investment than anything else.

I'm not SQ bashing...in fact I had a very good "economy" trip on them about 30yrs ago when they first started (DC-10) service to SFO. However, SQ operates under a completely different set of government regulations than US carriers, especially labor issues. The cost of adhering to the myriad of gov't regulation in the US is quite different (and more costly) than Singapore. How many people continue to work at SQ until normal retirement age (60-65)? Who finances the pensions, and so on...? It's like comparing apples to oranges.

I am more interested in seeing DL invading Canadian territory, like YVR, for overseas flights and see how the folks at AC like it...  Smile


User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Well considering SQ doesn't ever give out any First or Business Class long haul seats to other carriers SA)">FF programs, there's no big loss. I don't understand how it's ok for SQ not to sell ANY F/J seats on their 345/77W/388s to their partners programs, while their frequent fliers have access to NH/LH/SA/UA/AC/CO/TG/SK/LX, etc etc's premium seats. You can't even find any on their long haul 744 routes anymore.

User currently offlineDocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5267 times:



Quoting CV880 (Reply 12):
I'm not SQ bashing...in fact I had a very good "economy" trip on them about 30yrs ago when they first started (DC-10) service to SFO. However, SQ operates under a completely different set of government regulations than US carriers, especially labor issues. The cost of adhering to the myriad of gov't regulation in the US is quite different (and more costly) than Singapore. How many people continue to work at SQ until normal retirement age (60-65)? Who finances the pensions, and so on...? It's like comparing apples to oranges.

To answer your queries:

1) SQ Labour Costs

http://img81.imageshack.us/i/airlinestaffcostshz7.jpg/

Two years ago I compiled a table comparing the cost per employee of various airlines. You can see it in the above table. Although there are differences in exchange rates between then and now (which means that BA's cost per employee is no longer the highest in the list of airlines that I'm comparing) you can see that SQ's cost per employee is within 10% of UA's, and higher than CX and Air NZ.

SQ's cost per employee is double/more than double of MH and TG, and probably far higher than Garuda, the myriad of Indonesian airlines, Vietnam Airlines, Philippine Airlines and all the other countries that surround us. Sorry I couldn't locate their annual reports easily beacuse I don't think they're listed.

2) Pension schemes, pay and leave entitlements

SIA, like all employers in Singapore, are required to contribute 14.5% of a worker's salary (on top of his pay) into the national central provident fund till the nationally defined retirement age of 62, though that's going to gradually raised to 67.

On another note, SQ also has a profit-sharing plan with all its employees. In the year SATS and SIAEC were listed, the bonus payout was 7 months of pay. In most years it is 4-5 months. This is on top of the traditional 13th month of pay that most companies in Singapore pay out in December.

SQ also bears nearly the entire medical costs for its employees, who are entitled to "A"-class wards in any hospital. It used to be 100%, but they cut it to 90% or something. The other 10% can be claimed from private health insurance.

SQ staff get 20 days of annual leave. I'm not sure about medical and childcare leave, but since I work in a government-linked company I believe they follow the same system, which is:

-4 months paid maternity leave
-For mothers, an additional 6 days of child care leave per year, for each child under 12 (capped at 3 children I think)
-For fathers, an additional 6 days of child care leave per year in total, if they have children under 12
-30 days of outpatient sick leave per year
-60 days of hospitalisation leave per year, but is usually extended at the company's discretion if the employee is really ill and needs to be hospitalised for a longer period.

3) Retirement Age

Most employees with the exception of cabin crew are on permanent contracts. Cabin crew are on 5-year contracts.

4) Labour Issues

While unions in Singapore are generally benign, SQ's unions are the most militant in the country. The pilots union and cabin crew unions regularly take SQ's management to court, and have won numerous times.

5) Singapore Government financing SQ

Unfortunately, without any petrodollars or what not, what will the government fund SQ with? Temasek Holdings operates to give the singapore government a return, not the other way round.

You can read a previous post I made here

Is Temasek Holdings Plundering Singapore Airlines? (by Docpepz May 14 2009 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4413145&searchid=4413296&s=DocPepz#ID4413296

regarding how SIA strives to gives its shareholders huge dividend yields. Despite the loss they made in the past 2 quarters (which they should have forseen coming in the previous FY), they still burnt through over S$1.18 billion (US$850 million) in cash in paying dividends out to shareholders. Largely because the CEO had given guidance in 2008 that "S$1 dividend per share (then worth S$17) was "sustainable"

While most airlines would have slashed dividend payouts or halted them altogether this year, SIA distributed 100% of its ground handling subsidiary to its shareholders as a dividend, giving a record dividend yield of 14.5%, the highest ever for SIA.

6) No domestic network

I believe that it is the domestic networks of carriers of Qantas and the Chinese carriers that saved them from even larger losses this year.

But I wouldn't disagree that it is far easier operating a single hub structure than a multiple hub structure.

Sure I think comparing SIA to a US carrier is comparing apples and oranges. But so is comparing SIA's operating environment to airlines operating in its neighbourhood. Heck, just drive 30min out of central Singapore into Malaysia and wages drop by 60% or more.


User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

Well, DL and SQ are NOT in the same league as far as inflight service, comfort, general cabin crew attitude, etc. I managed to snag seats using SkyMiles on SQ flights EWR-SIN-EWR in September for me and my girlfriend. I was quite surprised to have gotten it for only 120K miles each. I can tell you that spending 120K on SQ flight was FAR more satisfying than spending the same on NW or DL on J class to SIN. Cannot compare by any stretch of the imagination.

Also since I have managed to get equal status on CO OnWorld, I am definitely switching my business to CO and *A since there are much more options for AsiaPacific, Europe and even within the US of A!!!

But to fly to ATL, I will still fly DL!!! I have no problem with the DL flights and frequency, but the value of my miles have diminished tremendously (and I am Diamond level from 2010).


User currently offlineDocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5204 times:



Quoting Mptpa (Reply 15):
Well, DL and SQ are NOT in the same league as far as inflight service, comfort, general cabin crew attitude, etc. I managed to snag seats using SkyMiles on SQ flights EWR-SIN-EWR in September for me and my girlfriend.

WHAT?!!!!!! You got to be kidding me. Was it this September? SQ doesn't release its new business class products to its partners for redemption, which is a mighty pain, so you're really really lucky you managed to get this! You'd require nearly 200,000 Krisflyer miles (or more) to redeem EWR-SIN-EWR!


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5100 times:



Quoting DocPepz (Reply 14):
Sure I think comparing SIA to a US carrier is comparing apples and oranges. But so is comparing SIA's operating environment to airlines operating in its neighbourhood. Heck, just drive 30min out of central Singapore into Malaysia and wages drop by 60% or more.

I thank You for enlightening me on the subject....honestly. As far as the labor issue, I was primarily referring to the "Singapore Girl" and what happens after the wrinkles start appearing. You said that the cabin crews keep management in court.....and that's how it should be.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5005 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 5):
You're right. DL is a far larger carrier, has many more aircraft, carries many more passengers, serves more destinations, has more FF's, etc., etc. You're right, DL is not even remotely in the same league as SQ, they're in a whole different ballpark. Want to give your little attempt at bashing DL another try?

Really? Are you really trying to say that DL is a superior carrier? You're whole argument rests on more this, bigger that. This is a case where quantity doesnt translate into quality. Nothing about DL's product competes with SQ.

I'm no SQ apologist, but I know a lame attempt to prop up DL when I see one.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 3):
About damn time...remember their attempt at an alliance back in the 1980s/1990s - SQ/DL/SR...all quality airlines at the time...now look what happened...SR is gone and DL is questionable quality.

Yeap one of the last remnants of the "Global Excellence" alliance between the three finally terminates.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 17):
As far as the labor issue, I was primarily referring to the "Singapore Girl" and what happens after the wrinkles start appearing.

And how is that relevant to this current discussion? That the DL-SQ relationship should be maintained because DL is justified to have poorer services due to US labour issues? I mean seriously, is there a need to bring up the same few points about SQ each time someone wants to justify inferior service standards in other airlines?

Quoting CV880 (Reply 9):
SQ would not exist if it weren't for the gov't financing of the airline

Someone addressed this point already, but just to add that I wish you are right. I work for the Singapore government, and I suppose I should feel short-changed and distressed that my government dared send us on official business overseas via airlines other than SQ?

Quoting DocPepz (Reply 14):
The pilots union and cabin crew unions regularly take SQ's management to court, and have won numerous times.

This link might be of interest.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/mompor...rRelationsInSingaporeAirlines.html

[Edited 2009-12-12 01:19:21 by huaiwei]


It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22938 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
I'm no SQ apologist, but I know a lame attempt to prop up DL when I see one.

I'm not really sure it's an attempt to prop up. The fact is that it's impossible to compare the two. Delta is huge. SQ is not. DL has been in business 80 years. SQ has not. SQ flies all business aircraft on ULHs. DL does not. DL operated under regulation in the States for most of its existence. SQ (obviously) did not. The differences go on and on.

We can compare individual attributes. SQ has better service. DL has more destinations. But to say that one is "better" than the other is a fool's errand.

[Edited 2009-12-12 09:36:19]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
I'm no SQ apologist, but I know a lame attempt to prop up DL when I see one.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
I'm not really sure it's an attempt to prop up. The fact is that it's impossible to compare the two. Delta is huge. SQ is not. DL has been 80 years. SQ has not. SQ flies all business aircraft on ULHs. DL does not. DL operated under regulation in the States for most of its existence. SQ (obviously) did not. The differences go on and on.

We can compare individual attributes. SQ has better service. DL has more destinations. But to say that one is "better" than the other is a fool's errand.

Thank you Cubsrule, that was exactly my point. It was not a "lame attempt" to prop up DL just an attempt to show that making such definitive statements as SQ is superior to DL is ludicrous given the number of variables involved.

[Edited 2009-12-12 09:33:52]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4706 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 21):
Thank you Cubsrule, that was exactly my point. It was not a "lame attempt" to prop up DL just an attempt to show that making such definitive statements as SQ is superior to DL is ludicrous given the number of variables involved.

Totally agree with you here.
Many live in a b/w world with no shades of gray or color in-between.

The SQ apologist just cannot help themselves on A.net. Reading their posts for face-value will give you the impression that SQ and other Asia airlines just can do no wrong!



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4429 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
I'm not really sure it's an attempt to prop up. The fact is that it's impossible to compare the two. Delta is huge. SQ is not. DL has been in business 80 years. SQ has not. SQ flies all business aircraft on ULHs. DL does not. DL operated under regulation in the States for most of its existence. SQ (obviously) did not. The differences go on and on.

We can compare individual attributes. SQ has better service. DL has more destinations. But to say that one is "better" than the other is a fool's errand.

In an ideal world, no one should be making direct comparisons given the wide range of variables involved, but unfortunately for the airline industry, it is very often a case of direct competition, and hence direct comparisons. Do you have public opinion defined by just how old an airline is? Do you have airline awards working things like "airline size" in their evaluation criteria? Do you have people voting for an airline while taking into account their local regularity conditions?

In a word, no. People realistically compare airlines based on just two main things: one: price. Two: what you get in return (ie, service quality).

It is not to say that East Asian airlines can do no wrong. The pure and hard fact remains that most of the travelling public (and I emphasis on "most", not "all", and "travelling public", not some "expert") considers them of higher service standard. No one is talking about how large or how old an airline is.

I do not think I need to explain the above much, given the wide range of literature out there and the tonnes of discussions on this in this forum, but I would respect the next person who can acknowledge this and go about thinking of ways on how their airline can be improved to match the competition and the best airlines in the industry in terms of service quality, instead of expending effort to come up with excuses explaining mediocrity and inferior service standards.

Does this sound like propping up SQ to thumb down CO? Well...I can't help it if any of you still think it that way! Big grin



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22938 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4375 times:



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 23):
instead of expending effort to come up with excuses explaining mediocrity and inferior service standards.

But that's just it. Delta would be foolish to provide SQ service standards on ORD-ATL, and SQ would be equally foolish to provide DL service standards on EWR-SIN. I don't know how you compare the two.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 MAH4546 : Bashing Delta? The truth hurts sometimes. Not a single U.S. carrier can come close to matching the quality and prestige of SQ, not even your precious
26 OA412 : And your attack proves what exactly? If someone had the same comments but substituted AA for DL you'd be the first to jump in and do what you always
27 CV880 : No one here is saying anything positive about DL's service standards, except that comparisons to those of SQ are not justified as the two airlines, o
28 Olympic472 : One of the best responses here. You hit the nail on the head
29 Luv2cattlecall : I wouldn't be surprised if this has a lot to do with it. DL's been giving away and diluting miles like crazy lately.
30 Daron4000 : While I agree that labor laws in the US are much stricter than those of Asia, there has to be something beyond labor laws that makes SQ inflight expe
31 Huaiwei : SQ tries to provide equal standards on all flights regardless of time or distance, be it its 30 min flight to KUL or its almost 19 hour flight to EWR
32 Cubsrule : Absolutely. Do local passengers pay the cost? I doubt it. If SQ's regional subsidiary has inferior service standards, then it's really just a semanti
33 Ben175 : I actually find it hilarious that so many people see DL as a better carrier than SQ. Which airline has constantly placed in the top three and won the
34 Cubsrule : No one has argued any differently. The Skytrax awards don't really help me when I need to fly to DEN or DTW.
35 Ben175 : Delta's fleet size or age won't help me when I need to fly to KUL or CGK.
36 Cubsrule : Correct. That's why the comparison is pointless.
37 Hohd : Well DL will not exist if it was not for our easy Chap 11 laws. They erased all debt including bondholders and restarted. I was one of the unfortunat
38 Cubsrule : What evidence do you have that Delta is "too big to fail?" Certainly, a Chapter 11 like Delta's trip is nearly impossible now due to the 2005 amendme
39 Huaiwei : Of course they do, dear. Thanks to limited air rights preventing competition from other carriers from 1972 until 1 December 2008, the SIN-KUL route i
40 Cubsrule : Sure there is. I don't get a meal on CLT-ATL. I get two meals on ATL-CDG. Fares are only half the story, as you know. The other part of the equation
41 Mayor : Whether you want to admit it, all you SQ apologists know that this is an apples and oranges comparison, and, as such, is not even valid. I find it odd
42 Post contains links Huaiwei : Actually, it is your argument which is pointless, not the comparison itself. In fact, for all the talk about DL's size (and for that matter, all of t
43 Ag92 : This discussion is no longer in the topic and has shifted to a DL vs SQ discussion, so yes the whole idea that cabin crew have to maintain a certain
44 Huaiwei : Is it a difference constrained by flight duration or aircraft type? Give me a more convincing response please, such as, for example, a single route w
45 Mayor : I guess the extensive route system has nothing to do with it? If you would quit bashing DL (and all U.S. carriers, for that matter) there might be a
46 Par13del : I would be interested in knowing what else you are thinking of. Let's not, that will only continue the argument of public transportation, lower taxes
47 Mayor : I imagined it was because of SQ joining *A, no?
48 Par13del : Would alliance rules prevent it even as a "grandfather" option but with greater limits so as not to "damage" the new partners?
49 Ben175 : Oh lord... I cannot get my head around the fact people believe DL is a better airline than SQ. I'm not Singaporean or an American, I have flown both a
50 DLPMMM : I think the relationship is ending for 2 reasons, neither of which has to do with Skymiles dilution. Reason 1. With the advent of CO gaining membersh
51 Jayeshrulz : I think this is because DL miles are half the miles of SQ. -SQ does not have a domestic market,Cashes on intl flights and its brand only, -SQ has ridi
52 Luckyone : Why are you comparing the cheapest tickets to the most expensive tickets? That makes no sense. You just contradicted yourself. Of course yields are g
53 Cubsrule : ...and no one would fly them and/or they'd bleed money, since air travel in this country is basically a commodity.
54 Huaiwei : Extensive? Where? Are you capable of making a distinction between stating factual information to correct your misconceptions about the global aviatio
55 Mayor : How can it be a fact, when it hasn't and probably won't happen? Somehow, I can't imagine SQ flying SLC-BIL (as an example). Don't you think "NOTHING"
56 Panamair : DL does go international from SIN courtesy of the NW merger, with a daily SIN-NRT flight. So how have UA and NW survived all this time with their fli
57 Luckyone : Yup. Add to that the fact that flying for Americans is analogous to taking the train elsewhere. It's a commodity and people love to gripe about it bu
58 Huaiwei : Read carefully. I was comparing SQ's most expensive tickets pre-competition to DL's current priciest tickets. If I were to use SQ's current prices, i
59 Mayor : The only comparison I made was in the number of pax carried, which must have something to do with the preference those pax have for using one airline
60 Cubsrule : With no competition on the route, you can hardly make an assertion about the demand for a certain level of onboard service! If I want to fly BNA-JAX
61 Luckyone : Because there was not a choice... that's the part you keep missing. Don't worry. It will come to your part of the world soon enough and then you will
62 Huaiwei : Did you read my entire post? By offering cheap tickets. My friend fell into the trap once on his flight to HKG from SIN via UA, and swore never to do
63 Huaiwei : And you continue to miss my post about that supposed "lack of choice". My part of the world, interestingly, appears to be far more competitive than t
64 Cubsrule : My question is whether, in the present, the fare paid covers the cost of the service. That's the question I asked, and you have yet to answer it. You
65 Post contains links Huaiwei : I can obviously only answer you based on the limited information I (as a non-SQ insider) have. There are verifiable sources on the situation pre-Dece
66 Cubsrule : Pardon the ignorant question, but what is MI's service like? Apologies if the use of present tense wasn't clear enough - obviously, I intended to be
67 Mayor : I don't know. I guess you would have to ask them. My whole point is this.....if SQ is so popular, internationally, then why does DL/NW carry more pax
68 Abrelosojos : = This is the most bizarre discussion I have encountered in a while. SQ and most Asian airlines are far superior than their counterparts in the U.S.
69 Docpepz : This discussion is getting sooooo pointless. Trying to compare SQ and DL is really comparing apples and oranges. Both serve different markets, operate
70 Abrelosojos : = Does DL/NW carry more higher yielding passengers? Do they get more from each passenger? Keep in mind an airlines job is primarily to connect O&D ma
71 Mayor : The point being that it's an apples and oranges comparison, in reality. Different markets, different route structures, etc. I think that's the point
72 Jetlanta : If SQ operated in the US the to the same standards it does elsewhere on any sort of scale, they would be out of business. The costs of operating to t
73 Post contains links Huaiwei : To sum it up: no SQ girls floating down the aisle. Apologies accepted, heartfelt or otherwise. Then you have to ask them too dear. It is obvious what
74 Mayor : Maybe it would be better, instead of basing your assumption on total population, you should figure the percentage based on people that actually fly.
75 Huaiwei : I think we are talking about captive markets and just how big the potential home market is to fuel an airline's operations this time, so no need to s
76 Jetlanta : Really? What is your point? It takes FIVE HOURS to fly across the U.S. and it is still considered domestic. How long does it take to fly across Singa
77 Cws818 : I'm not trying to start an argument by any means, Jetlanta, but it was my (albeit non-expert) impression that customer service at DL was top notch un
78 Jetlanta : That's pretty close to true, I used the 1991 Pan Am asset buy as the pivotal date, since Delta found it difficult to apply its standards to the massi
79 Cubsrule : That sounds a whole lot like the United States in about 1985.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Your Thoughts On VS Suing AC, DL And Jet Airways...... posted Wed Nov 25 2009 02:43:22 by Aircanada014
JAL Talks With DL And AMR Are Back On. posted Mon Oct 19 2009 11:18:51 by DeltaL1011man
DL And BOS posted Tue Oct 13 2009 08:04:42 by Sectflyer
DL And The E70 posted Fri Sep 18 2009 05:09:11 by UPSMD11
1980's DL And NW Flight Attendant Utilization posted Sun Sep 6 2009 06:31:19 by TWA1985
Questions About DL And The 77L posted Wed Aug 5 2009 10:43:32 by EA772LR
DL And Virgin Blue (DJ) Seek To Form Joint Venture posted Wed Jul 8 2009 16:30:46 by DL747400
DL And FL Best Friends? posted Tue Jun 16 2009 13:46:02 by DeltaMD90
When Did The Production Of 772 And 773's End? posted Fri Jun 5 2009 17:00:43 by Weirdlinguist
Are DL And CO The Only Operators Of The 767-400? posted Fri May 29 2009 13:54:17 by Flaps30