Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will Delta Expand In The Middle East And N. Africa  
User currently offlineDelta764 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

Delta has been very agressive in their international expansion and in particular, Africa. At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa. I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers, Tunis, Beriut, Jeddah, etc. from JFK and maybe even ATL. I'm interested in this discussion.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

I know this is far fetched but I would venture to say JFK-RUH might have a chance in the future.
It is to be an old TWA route, albeit via CAI- but I am surpirsed a US major has not gone into this market. UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5354 times:

Of the ones the OP mentioned, I think only BEY would pass muster, and that's a "maybe." I don't have any empirical data to back that up, and am just going with my gut. If someone has numbers, please post 'em.


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5341 times:



Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa.

Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 2):
Of the ones the OP mentioned, I think only BEY would pass muster, and that's a "maybe." I don't have any empirical data to back that up, and am just going with my gut. If someone has numbers, please post 'em.

I wonder what Air France would think though...Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

There is a market to some of those cities, but I have to think that most of them are best served through a codeshare via CDG or AMS. In fact wasn't there just a thread about AF upping their frequencies to BEY?

Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?

This is probably their best bet, the other business centers in the Middle East. AUH, KWI, or BAH might be the most appealing, but I am not holding my breath.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

Not sure about the bilaterals, but assuming that DL can open routes, then perhaps JFK-CMN would be doable with a 757. A code-share with RM could could DL key access to West Africa (DL has a presence there already) and ALG/TIP/BEN/TUN in North Africa.
JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.
For anything beyond-then it's a mission for the 77E. AUH and DOH are obvious candidates but tons of competition, and demand may not be that high anyway.
Within Saudi Arabia, all three cities used to have direct service to the USA early on (DMM/DHA does not at the moment). Perhaps the airline could look into launching JFK-JED-RUH-JFK. DMM is too much of a niche market, and KLM already flies there anyway.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5086 times:



Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3):
Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.

They've codeshared with AT for almost ten years now. No need to fly to CMN with their own metal.

Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
Not sure about the bilaterals, but assuming that DL can open routes, then perhaps JFK-CMN would be doable with a 757. A code-share with RM could could DL key access to West Africa (DL has a presence there already) and ALG/TIP/BEN/TUN in North Africa.

See above.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4939 times:



Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?

True, but this is a tag-on from KWI. It's not non-stop, which mitigates some of the risk in launching a new market.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3):
Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.

DL has never announced JFK-CMN service.

[Edited 2009-12-11 13:04:50]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

Just got off the ATL-DXB flight last night. Was absolutely packed... oversold by 26 is what the gate agent said. One of the flight attendants said it is one their most popular long hauls this winter. I hope that route is here to stay.

Do they codeshare out of AMS to any of KLM's middle east routes yet? I know the NW codes were always there, When/how is all that going to transition to DL? How is their route to Jordan doing? Thats a place I want to visit sometime soon!



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

How about Addis? Ethopian has been flying for years now (albeit through Rome) to the U.S. Is there enough demand for Delta to come into there?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

When I was in Beirut this Spring, Delta opened a city ticket office. The newspaper reported that they receive a lot of requests for travel to/from Beirut, so this ticket office was opened to help facilitate travel to/from Beirut via their CDG, IST, and AMM flights.

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3):
I wonder what Air France would think though...Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.

They codeshare on MEA's 2x daily A330-200 service, so it's going up to 4x daily including the MEA codeshares.

Air France presently flies 1x daily on 777-300ERs. Next year, they will operate an additional daily flight in the summer on A330-200s. This additional summer flight was introduced this year, but was only 4x weekly.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4493 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.

Why not overfly CDG and do it nonstop out of JFK? Also, does the 757 have the range for it?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4478 times:



Quoting CatIII (Reply 12):
Also, does the 757 have the range for it?

Not even close, JFK-BEY is over 4800 NM. A 767-300ER could do it, but that route might be better served operationally with an A330. Businesswise, I think that DL is taking the right path in serving BEY via their codeshare partners, though it might be a candidate for nonstop service to the US at some point. Perhaps when the economy rebounds.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4463 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Not even close, JFK-BEY is over 4800 NM. A 767-300ER could do it, but that route might be better served operationally with an A330. Businesswise, I think that DL is taking the right path in serving BEY via their codeshare partners, though it might be a candidate for nonstop service to the US at some point. Perhaps when the economy rebounds.

The BEY route would not be impacted by the economy. There are 2 or 3 (or even more) Lebanese living in North America....any airline could run the service and make it a whale of money


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4452 times:



Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 14):
There are 2 or 3 (or even more) Lebanese living in North America....any airline could run the service and make it a whale of money

I am assuming that you mean 2 or 3 million. But even then, on a route that is supported largely by VFR traffic nobody will be making a whale of money. It might support the flight, but it won't be a home run without the high yielding business traffic.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2877 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4415 times:



Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
Delta has been very agressive in their international expansion

Yes they have. A little too aggressive, in fact, as they are now making quite a bit of flying seasonal, operating with reduced frequencies and/or smaller aircraft, and cutting routes and stations entirely.

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
in particular, Africa

Indeed. But they are already flying to just about all of the markets that they can. Many African countries have no formal air treaties with the U.S. and are unwilling to grant frequencies (Angola, Equatorial Guinea), lack the security procedures/infrastructure to support flights to the U.S. (Kenya, Liberia) or are just too small/too poor to ever support a nonstop link to the U.S.

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa

Delta did serve CAI then, and it serves CAI today. They have never shown much interest in other North African countries.

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers

Algeria isn't exactly a hotspot for Americans to visit..

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
Tunis

Far too small to be any kind of direct flight. Tunisia is popular with Europeans but unheard of by Americans

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
Beriut

Most Americans know Beirut as a drinking game, not a place to go visit...

Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
Jeddah

Saudia already flies there...

Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
JFK-RUH might have a chance in the future

If Saudi Arabia is viewed as "dangerous" for British crews, I can't imagine what would have to happen for a U.S. carrier to fly there...

Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
I am surpirsed a US major has not gone into this market

Really?? Surprised that a country who doesn't offer tourist visas or give women any rights at all can't attract planefuls of Americans?

Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH.

Last DL followed UA's lead (KWI) they cut the flight after a few months...

Quoting Chepos (Reply 1):
Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?

Flying to AUH in addition to DXB is entirely unnecessary.

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3):
Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start

No they didn't.

Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3):
Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.

True, but ties between France and Lebanon are much different than ties between the U.S. and Lebanon...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
AUH, KWI, or BAH might be the most appealing

AUH and KWI already have regular links to JFK, flights from ATL did not (KWI) or would not (AUH) ever work. JFK-BAH was flown by Gulf Air in the past, but there is a reason it didn't stick around. These markets are just too small to support DL. Maybe in the future, DL could serve Baghdad from ATL and/or JFK  Wink



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4397 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
True, but ties between France and Lebanon are much different than ties between the U.S. and Lebanon...

French-Lebanese ties aren't enough to sustain 4x daily flights. These flights carry plenty of connecting traffic to/from North America as do all other flights between Europe and Lebanon. MEA partnered up with Air France in 1998 and this close partnership has allowed them to grab a very large market share of the North America to Lebanon market.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4266 times:



Quoting Jr (Reply 9):
Just got off the ATL-DXB flight last night. Was absolutely packed... oversold by 26 is what the gate agent said. One of the flight attendants said it is one their most popular long hauls this winter. I hope that route is here to stay.

Maybe DL will launch JFK-DXB in time?

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
Really?? Surprised that a country who doesn't offer tourist visas or give women any rights at all can't attract planefuls of Americans?

Erm, tons of business traffic, religious tourism, healthy flow of Saudi Arabians in the US, US expats in Saudi Arabia.
Nothing to do with the KSA's women's rights record.
And FWIW, TWA and Pan Am used to operate to the KSA in the past.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
If Saudi Arabia is viewed as "dangerous" for British crews, I can't imagine what would have to happen for a U.S. carrier to fly there...

Not as dangerous as LOS, and DL goes there.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8386 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3986 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting CatIII (Reply 12):
Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.

Why not overfly CDG and do it nonstop out of JFK? Also, does the 757 have the range for it?

Lebannon being a former french colony is owned by Air France and MEA. WE all know DL & AF are anchors of Skyteam too, however if DL did JFK to Beirut nonstop AF would probably consider it rude. Since AF operates a 77W( lots of J and F seatrs) from CDG to BEY for one of its flights that tells use they carry lots of connecting traffic onwards from CDG.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4913 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3933 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 19):
however if DL did JFK to Beirut nonstop AF would probably consider it rude.

Not if it's a part of the JV.


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1856 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3840 times:



Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter):
. I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers, Tunis, Beriut, Jeddah, etc. from JFK and maybe even ATL. I'm interested in this discussion.

Remember when Air Canada wanted to fly to BEY, it was blocked by the US because its a terrorist potential route or for saftey reasons! That is crazy indeed. BEY is underserved, and the Gulf Carriers are just enjoyng it with their multiple-daily flights  Smile



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3709 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 21):
BEY is underserved, and the Gulf Carriers are just enjoyng it with their multiple-daily flights Smile

For the first 11 months of this year, BEY passenger traffic was up 24.3% while aircraft movement was up 28.3%. December is a traditionally strong travel month, so 2009 growth for BEY should be very good.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Fares Rocketing Downwards In The Middle East posted Thu Nov 5 2009 09:29:49 by Pe@rson
Minimum 45-min Turnarounds In The Middle East posted Mon May 18 2009 09:03:23 by Pe@rson
Low Concept Airlines In The Middle East & N. Afric posted Fri Jul 28 2006 02:05:40 by Detroiter
Bombardier's Presence In The Middle East. posted Wed Feb 8 2006 16:53:08 by YOWza
Bombardier Presence In The Middle East. posted Wed Feb 8 2006 16:37:23 by YOWza
Non-Rev Travel In The Middle East posted Thu Feb 2 2006 14:38:25 by 757ops
Can LLC Work In The Middle East? posted Thu Dec 8 2005 16:35:56 by Curious
Why Is Airbus So Popular In The Middle East? posted Fri Jan 28 2005 13:18:03 by Terre
Busiest International Route In The Middle East posted Wed Dec 3 2003 23:39:33 by EA777
A New Start-up In The Middle East posted Wed Dec 3 2003 17:49:22 by Azmi