Delta764 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4127 times:
Delta has been very agressive in their international expansion and in particular, Africa. At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa. I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers, Tunis, Beriut, Jeddah, etc. from JFK and maybe even ATL. I'm interested in this discussion.
Chepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 5990 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3987 times:
I know this is far fetched but I would venture to say JFK-RUH might have a chance in the future.
It is to be an old TWA route, albeit via CAI- but I am surpirsed a US major has not gone into this market. UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?
NWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3332 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3915 times:
Of the ones the OP mentioned, I think only BEY would pass muster, and that's a "maybe." I don't have any empirical data to back that up, and am just going with my gut. If someone has numbers, please post 'em.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
Simairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 824 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3902 times:
Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter): At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa.
Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.
Quoting NWAESC (Reply 2): Of the ones the OP mentioned, I think only BEY would pass muster, and that's a "maybe." I don't have any empirical data to back that up, and am just going with my gut. If someone has numbers, please post 'em.
I wonder what Air France would think though...Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14409 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3885 times:
There is a market to some of those cities, but I have to think that most of them are best served through a codeshare via CDG or AMS. In fact wasn't there just a thread about AF upping their frequencies to BEY?
Quoting Chepos (Reply 1): UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?
This is probably their best bet, the other business centers in the Middle East. AUH, KWI, or BAH might be the most appealing, but I am not holding my breath.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3727 times:
Not sure about the bilaterals, but assuming that DL can open routes, then perhaps JFK-CMN would be doable with a 757. A code-share with RM could could DL key access to West Africa (DL has a presence there already) and ALG/TIP/BEN/TUN in North Africa.
JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.
For anything beyond-then it's a mission for the 77E. AUH and DOH are obvious candidates but tons of competition, and demand may not be that high anyway.
Within Saudi Arabia, all three cities used to have direct service to the USA early on (DMM/DHA does not at the moment). Perhaps the airline could look into launching JFK-JED-RUH-JFK. DMM is too much of a niche market, and KLM already flies there anyway.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3647 times:
Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3): Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.
They've codeshared with AT for almost ten years now. No need to fly to CMN with their own metal.
Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5): Not sure about the bilaterals, but assuming that DL can open routes, then perhaps JFK-CMN would be doable with a 757. A code-share with RM could could DL key access to West Africa (DL has a presence there already) and ALG/TIP/BEN/TUN in North Africa.
UA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1639 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3500 times:
Quoting Chepos (Reply 1): UAL has recently announced BAH so maybe they want to play follow the leader and announce ATL or JFK - BAH. Maybe even add a second city in the UAE- AUH, who knows?
True, but this is a tag-on from KWI. It's not non-stop, which mitigates some of the risk in launching a new market.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 25 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3): Delta announced JFK-Casablanca to start 2008 (?), but then the route never started.
Jr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 961 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3094 times:
Just got off the ATL-DXB flight last night. Was absolutely packed... oversold by 26 is what the gate agent said. One of the flight attendants said it is one their most popular long hauls this winter. I hope that route is here to stay.
Do they codeshare out of AMS to any of KLM's middle east routes yet? I know the NW codes were always there, When/how is all that going to transition to DL? How is their route to Jordan doing? Thats a place I want to visit sometime soon!
CatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2303 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3075 times:
How about Addis? Ethopian has been flying for years now (albeit through Rome) to the U.S. Is there enough demand for Delta to come into there?
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11141 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3069 times:
When I was in Beirut this Spring, Delta opened a city ticket office. The newspaper reported that they receive a lot of requests for travel to/from Beirut, so this ticket office was opened to help facilitate travel to/from Beirut via their CDG, IST, and AMM flights.
Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3): I wonder what Air France would think though...Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.
They codeshare on MEA's 2x daily A330-200 service, so it's going up to 4x daily including the MEA codeshares.
Air France presently flies 1x daily on 777-300ERs. Next year, they will operate an additional daily flight in the summer on A330-200s. This additional summer flight was introduced this year, but was only 4x weekly.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
CatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2303 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3054 times:
Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5): JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.
Why not overfly CDG and do it nonstop out of JFK? Also, does the 757 have the range for it?
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14409 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3039 times:
Quoting CatIII (Reply 12): Also, does the 757 have the range for it?
Not even close, JFK-BEY is over 4800 NM. A 767-300ER could do it, but that route might be better served operationally with an A330. Businesswise, I think that DL is taking the right path in serving BEY via their codeshare partners, though it might be a candidate for nonstop service to the US at some point. Perhaps when the economy rebounds.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1681 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3024 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13): Not even close, JFK-BEY is over 4800 NM. A 767-300ER could do it, but that route might be better served operationally with an A330. Businesswise, I think that DL is taking the right path in serving BEY via their codeshare partners, though it might be a candidate for nonstop service to the US at some point. Perhaps when the economy rebounds.
The BEY route would not be impacted by the economy. There are 2 or 3 (or even more) Lebanese living in North America....any airline could run the service and make it a whale of money
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14409 posts, RR: 26 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3013 times:
Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 14): There are 2 or 3 (or even more) Lebanese living in North America....any airline could run the service and make it a whale of money
I am assuming that you mean 2 or 3 million. But even then, on a route that is supported largely by VFR traffic nobody will be making a whale of money. It might support the flight, but it won't be a home run without the high yielding business traffic.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2614 posts, RR: 31 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2976 times:
Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter): Delta has been very agressive in their international expansion
Yes they have. A little too aggressive, in fact, as they are now making quite a bit of flying seasonal, operating with reduced frequencies and/or smaller aircraft, and cutting routes and stations entirely.
Indeed. But they are already flying to just about all of the markets that they can. Many African countries have no formal air treaties with the U.S. and are unwilling to grant frequencies (Angola, Equatorial Guinea), lack the security procedures/infrastructure to support flights to the U.S. (Kenya, Liberia) or are just too small/too poor to ever support a nonstop link to the U.S.
Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter): At one time, prior to 9/11, I believe they were interested in N. Africa
Delta did serve CAI then, and it serves CAI today. They have never shown much interest in other North African countries.
Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter): I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers
Algeria isn't exactly a hotspot for Americans to visit..
Quoting Simairlinenet (Reply 3): Air France is bumping CDG-BEY up to four daily.
True, but ties between France and Lebanon are much different than ties between the U.S. and Lebanon...
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4): AUH, KWI, or BAH might be the most appealing
AUH and KWI already have regular links to JFK, flights from ATL did not (KWI) or would not (AUH) ever work. JFK-BAH was flown by Gulf Air in the past, but there is a reason it didn't stick around. These markets are just too small to support DL. Maybe in the future, DL could serve Baghdad from ATL and/or JFK
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11141 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16): True, but ties between France and Lebanon are much different than ties between the U.S. and Lebanon...
French-Lebanese ties aren't enough to sustain 4x daily flights. These flights carry plenty of connecting traffic to/from North America as do all other flights between Europe and Lebanon. MEA partnered up with Air France in 1998 and this close partnership has allowed them to grab a very large market share of the North America to Lebanon market.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2827 times:
Quoting Jr (Reply 9): Just got off the ATL-DXB flight last night. Was absolutely packed... oversold by 26 is what the gate agent said. One of the flight attendants said it is one their most popular long hauls this winter. I hope that route is here to stay.
Maybe DL will launch JFK-DXB in time?
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16): Really?? Surprised that a country who doesn't offer tourist visas or give women any rights at all can't attract planefuls of Americans?
Erm, tons of business traffic, religious tourism, healthy flow of Saudi Arabians in the US, US expats in Saudi Arabia.
Nothing to do with the KSA's women's rights record.
And FWIW, TWA and Pan Am used to operate to the KSA in the past.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16): If Saudi Arabia is viewed as "dangerous" for British crews, I can't imagine what would have to happen for a U.S. carrier to fly there...
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7411 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
Quoting CatIII (Reply 12): Quoting Directorguy (Reply 5):
JFK-BEY has demand-particularly during the peak summer/fall periods-but since AF is raising frequencies there, no rush to tap into that market.
Why not overfly CDG and do it nonstop out of JFK? Also, does the 757 have the range for it?
Lebannon being a former french colony is owned by Air France and MEA. WE all know DL & AF are anchors of Skyteam too, however if DL did JFK to Beirut nonstop AF would probably consider it rude. Since AF operates a 77W( lots of J and F seatrs) from CDG to BEY for one of its flights that tells use they carry lots of connecting traffic onwards from CDG.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4595 posts, RR: 25 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 19): however if DL did JFK to Beirut nonstop AF would probably consider it rude.
QatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1618 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2401 times:
Quoting Delta764 (Thread starter): . I think it would be great to see Delta offering services to Algiers, Tunis, Beriut, Jeddah, etc. from JFK and maybe even ATL. I'm interested in this discussion.
Remember when Air Canada wanted to fly to BEY, it was blocked by the US because its a terrorist potential route or for saftey reasons! That is crazy indeed. BEY is underserved, and the Gulf Carriers are just enjoyng it with their multiple-daily flights
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11141 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 21): BEY is underserved, and the Gulf Carriers are just enjoyng it with their multiple-daily flights Smile
For the first 11 months of this year, BEY passenger traffic was up 24.3% while aircraft movement was up 28.3%. December is a traditionally strong travel month, so 2009 growth for BEY should be very good.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
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