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LGA CTB And EWR A Postponed Indef  
User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

From the NY Post, and buried in the PA Capital Improvements

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/l..._up_won_fly_9lPmzJuZfsfsdKTJEOMt5L

Planning will continue, but absolutely NO funding for construction through 2016.

I couldn't resist posting this because of all the posts surrounding the JFK Delta project and how EWR and LGA would be first, while DL was getting the shaft at JFK.

Remember ladies and gents, Private investment (if and when DL decides to do that) beats government bureaucracy on every level anyday. The PA has been studying and planning these projects for a decade already. Sit tight, they won't be happening for a LONG time. At least Terminal A is useable . . . the CTB at LGA is a national disgrace.

Pilot PJ

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

uh oh, just wait for STT757's response

 rotfl   rotfl 

The Delta JFK project is in the works regardless of what any PANYNJ fan boy says...


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3730 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 1):
The Delta JFK project is in the works regardless of what any PANYNJ fan boy says...

I'm having deja vu:

http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/bbdeal/bd001023.htm



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

WTF! Man, the port authority just plain sucks. So much stupid politics involving construction. Typical NY/NJ. A whole lot of planning for good things and in the end not getting anything done.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3640 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Thread starter):
the CTB at LGA is a national disgrace

Especially Concourse B. I've only been in concourse A and B to the best of my memory, but I'm sure I have flown AA out of LGA once or twice when I was a baby.

B is gross, its run down, and old looking. Back in March 2008, I flew FL from DAB-LGA n/s and arrived at B8 in the CTB. It was deplorable! The AirTran gate area is very cramped. However, B7 still has a faded TWA logo on the jetway.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

If you really want to delve into the politics of the Port Authority the reasoning behind the delay in the LGA CTB and EWR Terminal A redevelopments can be found in this discussion;

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/c...re_new_bffs_pLXKhRwjXkzyk9Lhxq62YO

Basically a long standing dispute between the Port Authority and Larry Silverstein over the financing of 2 of the World Trade Center towers, Larry Silverstein has been unable to obtain financing for the construction (sound familiar) of towers 2 and 3 of the World Trade Center. Bloomberg is trying to woo Governor elect Christie to help him convince the Port Authority to finance those towers, as Governor of New Jersey Christie has 50% control of the Port Authority along with the New York Governor.

This may be the Port Authority repositioning their capital budget priorities in order to be able to fund those two World Trade Center towers, should the Governor of New Jersey approve. The capital costs for redeveloping both Terminals at EWR and LGA (along with the other projects mentioned) would be enough to build WTC 2 & 3.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

Well here's the thing: The PA shouldn't be involved in real estate. They are a bi-state government agency that has a bloated payroll and takes a long time to get things done. Interesting thing I heard a few years ago: over half the people at the PA make six figure salaries. A little top heavy.

That said, the PA was dispersing of real estate up until 9/11. They leased T4 and it's redevelopment to JFKIAT. They also leased the Trade Center to Larry Silverstein.

If you need anymore evidence that this worked well, look at T4 JFK and compare it to:
1. The T4E/4W (Old IAB) ran by the PA
2. The CTB at LGA
3. A at EWR

Then look at WTC progress. The only building to rise rapidly (and actually completed thus far) is 7 WTC built by Silverstein. This building was off-site and thus avoided the government agencies LMDC, City of NY, State of NY, PA, Libeskin(sp?) Site Plan that the rest of the site has gotten bogged down in.

He had the right to build the other buildings and wanted to from Day 1. But things got delayed for 8 years (most recently by a retaining wall that the PA paid millions of dollars in late fees for because they were months late in getting it down) and now the financing market to build his 3 buildings that existed up until a couple of years ago has dried up.

So he wants the PA to finance his buildings arguing that their delays caused him to miss a good market for rebuilding. He has a point.

The PA has said that if they finance his buildings, the terminals would be on hold. Is that what is going on here? Good chance. The Trade Center site has to be rebuilt at this point and I have a feeling the chickens have come home to roost.

So privatize the terminals already. Had 'em to Schipol USA and let them work their magic. They have done wonders at JFK! So has AA at JFK, B6 at JFK, TOGA at JFK, BA at JFK, and CO at EWR. Private investment with a party financially interested in a sucessful outcome.

Pilot PJ


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Pretty ridiculous that CTB will still be the main terminal for business travellers using LGA....Embarassing for New York, and reflective of its crumbling infrastructure.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3489 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 6):
Then look at WTC progress. The only building to rise rapidly (and actually completed thus far) is 7 WTC built by Silverstein.

In fairness Seven World Trade Center is not inside then "pit", it was further away from the massive debris piles and thus clean up of the site was quicker.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

"In fairness Seven World Trade Center is not inside then "pit", it was further away from the massive debris piles and thus clean up of the site was quicker."

Agreed. But the site has been ready for some time now and progress has been too slow for New Yorkers. We don't want it done tomorrow, we wanted it done yesterday, and that really wasn't and isn't unrealistic.

So I think you're right. The PA is bowing to public pressure and will finance 2 of the 3 or 3 of the 3 Silverstein towers. They will be spectacular and bring lots of prestige and revenue to all parties involved. CTB and A are the sacrificial lambs. So sell them off!  Smile

Pilot PJ


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4715 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

I have been at conferences/presentations where PANYNJ folks have stated that the long term closure of LGA is an option on the table. At the same time I hear about a 1.6 billion dollar CTB. I think they need to sort out their long term plans, if LGA will eventually be closed (likely coinciding with massive investment and high speed access improvements as SWF) when would it be and is the 1.6 billion investment worth it. The fact that both options are still on the table (last I heard) doesnt work, one of those options would need to be removed before going forward.

Even without a 1.6 B CTB something at LGA needs to be done.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2263 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3348 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
I have been at conferences/presentations where PANYNJ folks have stated that the long term closure of LGA is an option on the table

I think it's very unlikely LGA will be closed any time soon. Some of the most powerful people on the planet live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. These people will never tolerate taking high speed rail to SWF, or even going to JFK / EWR, in lieu of their relatively quick ride to LGA. They will do everything they can to keep LGA open - in much the same way that pressure from Congress ensured DCA was never closed.

I think the "studies" to close LGA are purely a negotiating ploy on the part of the Port Authority to "encourage" politicians to fund an upgraded CTB.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4715 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3318 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 11):
I think it's very unlikely LGA will be closed any time soon.

It was not a "any time soon" plan, it was a long term plan sometime 20-30 or so years in the future. They need to take a long hard look at their long term plans for the NYC area and evaluate what LGA's role will be, and then weigh that against the CTB plan. If they do plan to close LGA then something less drastic than a whole new terminal complex should be proposed.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1662 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3261 times:
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Quoting Jfkgaylga (Thread starter):
the CTB at LGA is a national disgrace.

I agree with you 100 percent.

I have been flying out of LGA for over 30 years, first on TWA and then AA and the CTB is a total disgrace, its dirty, the bathrooms are filthy and the gate areas are overcrowded, the PA is so cheap they even eliminated paper towels in the bathrooms. The airlines are only tenants in the CTB and are at the mercy of the PA.

Now for the past 2 years I have been flying Delta out of their terminal at LGA, the difference is like night and day, clean, not that crowded, the bathrooms are much cleaner and there are paper towels in the bathrooms. I realize DL’s terminal is newer, but you can see it is maintained better as well.

When I was flying AA, I complained to AA because the Admirals’ Club was in Concourse A, but some of my AA flights departed out of Concourse B, so if I wanted to use the club, then I had to go through security again on B or just not use the club at all and go directly to the gate on B. I talked to the club manager and he told me that there was a lot of complains, not only from club members but from their own employees who had to go through security every time they changed concourses and from passengers who were connecting at LGA. AA had plans to build an inside walkway along the inner CTB wall between A and B that would be inside security, but the PA was giving them a hard time about these plans. Now that AA had reduced their operations at LGA I don’t think there is a need for this walkway anymore

I fly LGA-TPA a lot, and what a difference from the CTB at LGA and TPA terminals, the Port Authority should send their people down to TPA and see how they run their terminals, that is the way airline terminals should be operated. But living in the Greater New York Area all my life, I have come to the conclusion that the Port Authority does not do anything the right way.

I remember the controversy way back when the Port Authority first announced their plans for the World Trade Center, there was a lot of opposition because the PA was in the business of running the airports, bridges, tunnels and the port itself, not in the office building business, but politics prevailed and they got permission to build the WTC anyway.

Personally I feel the PA should only be allowed to run the GW Bridge, Lincoln & Holland Tunnels and the Port, because those facilities touch both states, EWR and TEB should be run by New Jersey, or a separate airport commission run by NJ and LGA ,JFK and the bus terminals should be run by New York City, just like how Los Angeles runs LAX and their other airports, but that’s only a dream that will never happen, not when the PA answers only directly to both Governors, too much politics involved there.

JetStar


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Yeah turn the New York airports over to the MTA because we know how much more efficient they are than the Port Authority  Yeah sure


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3193 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
Now for the past 2 years I have been flying Delta out of their terminal at LGA, the difference is like night and day,

The Delta terminal airside is much nicer...But the security lines are ridiculous there!

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
I have been flying out of LGA for over 30 years, first on TWA and then AA and the CTB is a total disgrace,

I've found that United has the nicest gate section of any airline in the CTB...How was the TWA section back in the day?


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Looking back on it I think the worst security line i've ever encountered was in the CTB with AA. Jesus Christ it was awful.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3254 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3161 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
This may be the Port Authority repositioning their capital budget priorities in order to be able to fund those two World Trade Center towers, should the Governor of New Jersey approve. The capital costs for redeveloping both Terminals at EWR and LGA (along with the other projects mentioned) would be enough to build WTC 2 & 3.

One more reason for the airports to be run by a separate airport authority, so that priorities are not "repositioned" away from the airports.


Port Authorities (who run ports), and other gov't agencies who run airports as only a part of their responsibilities often do not prioritize, invest in, and run airports as well as airport authorities - whose sole job is to do just that.

Look at SAN. Ran by the local port authority for a long time with no investment. An airport authority was created there, and now they have the new west terminal, with a further extension in the works.

IAD and DCA saw zero investment when the FAA ran them. MWAA was created, and look at those airports now.

Same thing with YVR and YYZ, post Transport Canada.

OAK, still run by the port authority, is a joke compared to what it could have been considering its location and land mass.

The list goes on and on.

In all fairness, I think PDX, SEA, and BOS (run by port authorities) have done a good overall job, but the bad examples - of which the PANYNJ is one - outnumber the good.



FLYi
User currently offlineEgcarter From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3107 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 17):
In all fairness, I think PDX, SEA, and BOS (run by port authorities) have done a good overall job, but the bad examples - of which the PANYNJ is one - outnumber the good.

In comparing these various agencies, the PANYNJ is at a disadvantage, being a bi-state authority. There are the interstate politics mucking up the works here...


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2461 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3024 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 1):
The Delta JFK project is in the works regardless of what any PANYNJ fan boy says...

Another DL prophesy... I'll believe it when I see it!

I doubt any airline would be able to obtain financing for a capital project that would surely exceed $1 billion in this financial environment. DL's balance sheet is still far from healthy.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2863 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
The Delta terminal airside is much nicer...But the security lines are ridiculous there!

I have never had a wait longer than 10 minutes at security in the DL terminal at LGA. Half the time, it's barely even 5 minutes.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
I realize DL’s terminal is newer, but you can see it is maintained better as well.

If you want newer, try using US's terminal (soon to be DL's should this Slot Deal go through). I believe the US terminal is the newest of all LGA terminals.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

"Yeah turn the New York airports over to the MTA because we know how much more efficient they are than the Port Authority "

You know, you bash the MTA a lot, and there is no doubt that they have significant weaknesses.

But they run the largest mass transit system in the world (in terms of stations and train cars) and by far the busiest in the US.

The Lexington Ave line alone (4, 5, 6) sees more people in a day then the DC and Chicago systems do.

So for all the MTA's faults (of which there are many) they run a cheap, reliable, fairly clean, fairly modern system that operates 24 HOURS a day. And it transports 5 million passengers a day! Think about that.

The PA couldn't dream of running a system like that.

From our friends at Wikipedia:

"The New York City Subway trails only the metro systems of Tokyo, Moscow and Seoul in annual ridership and carries more passengers than all other rail mass transit systems in the United States combined. Among the world's busiest metro systems it is the only one to run 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.[6]"



Pilot PJ


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week ago) and read 2752 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Thread starter):
the CTB at LGA is a national disgrace.

Most of the American infrastructure is becoming a disgrace. The US is falling further and further behind the rest of the world. Look at all the expansion in the world, subways are being built left and right in Asia (China, Thailand), HSR is blossoming in Europe. Airports are expanding in the GCC. Highways are being built in Latin America and in the Anglo world, it's lobbyists...lobbyists... lobbyists with injunctions, injunctions, injunctions. Chris Matthews said it best, greed is getting the best of the US!


User currently offlineUs330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2688 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Pretty ridiculous that CTB will still be the main terminal for business travellers using LGA....Embarassing for New York, and reflective of its crumbling infrastructure

Most (95%) of my experience at LGA has been limited to AA's Concourse D, but I can say that the only redeeming quality about the CTB is the pre-security food court between Concourses B and C.
The bathrooms are average (DFW's are worse--at least there is a custodian present), but the concourse is claustrophobia-inducing, the floor is dirty, and there are ceiling leaks everywhere--with the only solution being putting a trash can directly underneath it.
There's a reason that whenever I wasn't flying with my parents (who are admirals club members) that I waited until the last possible moment to go through security, but most of the time I try to air on the side of caution because...

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 16):
Looking back on it I think the worst security line i've ever encountered was in the CTB with AA. Jesus Christ it was awful.

The decision to put you in the experienced or novice traveller line is arbitrary at best, and not even done by travelling party. My father and I were put in the "experienced line" and my mother, who wasn't exactly dressed like a travelling hillbilly (granted, she wasn't wearing dress slacks, but she could have easily passed for someone who worked in the fashion or art industry) , was sent in the novice line. On an already backed up line--it was already reaching near the beginning of the rope--there was only one metal detector in operation. The security checkpoint was easily working at only half-strength. At one point, the line even reached past the ropes. It wasn't until after all of us had gone through security that the geniuses at TSA decided to open up another metal detector.
It was by far my worst TSA experience.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2656 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 6):
Interesting thing I heard a few years ago: over half the people at the PA make six figure salaries. A little top heavy.

Again in fairness that is due to police overtime since 9/11, the Port Authority has a relatively small police force tasked with protecting the most likely targets for terrorism. The Port Authority police protect;

The Port Authority bus terminals, Holland, Lincoln tunnels, George Washington, Bayonne, Geothals, Outerbridges, EWR, JFK, LGA, TEB, SWF airports, the World Trade Center, PATH train system, World Trade Center, the Ports in New Jersey, Staten Island and Brooklyn etc..

The salaries are skewed because of the tremendous amount of overtime PAPD officers have to work, however much of that is covered by the Federal Government through anti Terrorism grants. The NYPD and FDNY also receive funding from the same grants, all those huge overtime salaries are not burdens on their budgets. They are reimbursed by the Federal Government, which are always trying to cut those funds and are trying again;

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...y_gets_200m_in_security_funds.html

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
I remember the controversy way back when the Port Authority first announced their plans for the World Trade Center, there was a lot of opposition because the PA was in the business of running the airports, bridges, tunnels and the port itself, not in the office building business, but politics prevailed and they got permission to build the WTC anyway.

Let's be clear, the Port Authority never sought out developing the World Trade Center. The development of the World Trade Center was Governor Rockefeller's dream, originally it was envisioned to be developed by the State of New York and it was to have been built on the lower "East Side". However the State did not have the resources nor the political support to fund the massive project, so Rockefeller turned to the Port Authority. The New York Governor ordered the Port Authority to build the World Trade Center, the only way they got the New Jersey Governor to agree was that they included the acquisition of the bankrupt Hudson and Manhattan railroad into the deal. When they bought the H&M railroad they also got Hudson Terminal, which is where the World Trade Center sits today. They developed the World Trade Center on H&M railroad property, and made it a convenient location for New Jersey commuters.

The Port Authority never wanted to be in the development business, they have been trying to get out of it ever since and were able to lease out the Towers just a few months prior to 9-11.

Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 21):
You know, you bash the MTA a lot, and there is no doubt that they have significant weaknesses.

But they run the largest mass transit system in the world (in terms of stations and train cars) and by far the busiest in the US.

Corruption is rampant at the MTA, not that the Port Authority is perfect but they have much better handle on things than the MTA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 Jetstar : I have not had any problems with security delays at the DL terminal, I think the most I waited was 15 minutes once, but I can imagine during holiday
26 Jetstar : This is out of Wikipedia, so it looks like it was a Port Authority project from the first day The idea of establishing a World Trade Center in New Yo
27 NYCadvantage : MTA Stands for "Money Troubles Ahead" or "Money Troubles Always" So if we are going to put our faith in the MTA, Delta may break ground at JFK T2/3 o
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