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Close Call With Ground Equipment, Who's At Fault?  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

In this jumpseat video, there is a close call with an airport baggage trailer that rushes carelessly in front of the plane, the F/O flashes the lights to warn the baggage trailer, but to no avail. The captain then complains to ground control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQxCnjZFgO4&hd=1

I'm curious to know who exactly is at fault, if it is strictly the airport baggage trailer or if ground control may have not properly communicated with the airport baggage trailer?

I've always wondered how communication with ground equipment is done at airports to avoid such incidents.

On a side note, does anyone know what gate docking system is shown? I don't think it's AGNIS.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3295 times:
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Quoting BA (Thread starter):

Aircraft has right of way. End of discussion.

[Edited 2009-12-12 00:59:12]


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 1):
Aircraft has right of way. End of discussion.

I'm well aware that aircraft have right of way. My question which was:

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
I'm curious to know who exactly is at fault, if it is strictly the airport baggage trailer or if ground control may have not properly communicated with the airport baggage trailer?


[Edited 2009-12-12 01:17:25]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3206 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

Airport's have their own road systems... which are purposely designed to avoid aircraft. At certain points you can cross live taxiways but you should be checking constantly...

And ground control rarely has any way of communicating with vehicles such as baggage trolleys.

Nothing happened in this incident so nobody is 'at fault' as such... But the baggage handler drove onto the live taxiway infront of a taxiing aircraft... It's probably not the best idea.



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineNKOPS From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

I'm not sure ground control would even be in contact with the baggage tug... I believe ground control only talks to aircraft, unless the baggage cart was in the movement area, then he is required to be in contact with ground. I would say it is the drivers fault, even if the ground controller told him to go, you still have to have situational awareness.


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

I'd say luggage cart driver. Unless specifically told otherwise, right of way (at least here) is basically aircraft always win, then emergency vehicles, then fuel trucks and the like, then everything else. Using the above logic, the luggage driver should have yielded to the aircraft unless the controller specifically said that the aircraft should yield to them.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15713 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3178 times:



Quoting NKOPS (Reply 4):
I'm not sure ground control would even be in contact with the baggage tug... I believe ground control only talks to aircraft,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was always under the impression that the only vehicles that ground control talks to would be tugs towing an aircraft, airside maintenance vehicles (snowplows, etc.) and emergency vehicles. I can't imagine that they are in contact with every vehicle running around the ramp, they just have to know the rules and keep their heads on a swivel.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3156 times:



Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 3):
And ground control rarely has any way of communicating with vehicles such as baggage trolleys.



Quoting NKOPS (Reply 4):
I'm not sure ground control would even be in contact with the baggage tug...



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was always under the impression that the only vehicles that ground control talks to would be tugs towing an aircraft, airside maintenance vehicles (snowplows, etc.) and emergency vehicles.

Thanks, I thought this was probably the case.

So I guess it's mostly about exercising caution and prudence, especially when driving outside the ground equipment road system.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3206 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3090 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 7):
So I guess it's mostly about exercising caution and prudence, especially when driving outside the ground equipment road system.

Got it. Especially at night... aircraft can be difficult to see from ground level. It sounds silly but I know for myself. From the video, it doesn't seem as though either party had to take evasive action... the baggage handler should have just waited for the aircraft to clear.



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2934 times:



Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 3):
Nothing happened in this incident so nobody is 'at fault' as such... But the baggage handler drove onto the live taxiway infront of a taxiing aircraft... It's probably not the best idea.

There have been baggage cart guys killed before in accidents with airplanes. It's sad, you sometimes have to stop and wonder, "Is it really worth the extra 10 seconds to cut in front of that airplane?" Of course that question could be asked of just about every person who speeds or drives recklessly, but that's a debate for another day.


User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

When I did ramp control at Hartsfield, the ramp vehicles (tugs, catering trucks, mx trucks, etc...) were all simply on a see and avoid basis with the aircraft. From time to time one would cut it close and I'd get a call from an angry pilot, but unless he got the full tug number, there's not much I can do but empathize.

There was a tug one night that ran right into the wing of a CRJ 200. Luckily it was a covered one with a roof. The windshield had to be removed for the guy to get out.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2641 times:



Quoting NorCal (Reply 9):
There have been baggage cart guys killed before in accidents with airplanes. It's sad, you sometimes have to stop and wonder, "Is it really worth the extra 10 seconds to cut in front of that airplane?" Of course that question could be asked of just about every person who speeds or drives recklessly, but that's a debate for another day.

I've observed that some airports invest more in road networks for ground equipment than other airports in an effort to keep traffic segregated from aircraft movement as much as possible. Heathrow comes to mind with its underground road network, especially around the new Terminal 5.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2492 times:



Quoting ARFFdude (Reply 10):
the ramp vehicles (tugs, catering trucks, mx trucks, etc...) were all simply on a see and avoid basis with the aircraft. From time to time one would cut it close and I'd get a call from an angry pilot, but unless he got the full tug number, there's not much I can do but empathize.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
I can't imagine that they are in contact with every vehicle running around the ramp, they just have to know the rules and keep their heads on a swivel.

Both above are correct. Aircraft always have the right of way period. It would be very rare for ground equipment to have the right of way in any circumstance, and just as rare to have contact with ground control.

MD


User currently offlineN901WA From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

We Taxi almost everynight night from the Gate to the Hanger, and I had my share of ramp equipment getting close. The way LAX is set up the Main Road way is in the middle of 2 Taxiways, so when crossing from Bravo to Charlie. I usally try to flash my Runway Turnoff Light before leaving them on in the turn so they Notice me. The scariest was a UAL employee bus that thought I was going straight and cut under the nose of the 67 I was Taxing. I hit The Brakes hard and could not see the bus just the shadow on the Taxiway.
Sometimes its the Crew Fault, Like the Crossair 747 that taxied into a Dump truck on a closed taxiway in LAX.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

If a collision were to occur, I'm sure they'd lay the blame squarely on the Captain.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2163 times:



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 14):
If a collision were to occur, I'm sure they'd lay the blame squarely on the Captain.

Why? As has been mentioned in this thread, aircraft have the right of way.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

You have to remember that the flight crew has a very limited line of sight in the cockpit, so it's up to the vehicle driver to be aware of where the aircraft is.


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
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