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LH Cargo's Beauties In VCV  
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11721 times:

I hate to see them there...


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Photo © Botterman Bram



Just wanted to share that...

[Edited 2009-12-13 07:56:44 by srbmod]

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12715 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

Quoting NicoEDDF (Thread starter):
I hate to see them there...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Botterman Bram



Just wanted to share that...

Indeed.

Having the titles covered up is usually not a good sign, is it?

The one in the middle must have been there a while, no?

[Edited 2009-12-13 07:57:08 by srbmod]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11498 times:

Its odd to see these rather young MD11s parked among and surrounded only by oldies which highly likely wont fly anymore. The Delta and ATA Tristars are bound to be scrapped, the UA 762 is surely finished also, and then there are 3 pax DC-10s, which dont have more than 1% chance to be reactivated.
Btw, why are the engines on one of the three LH MD11Fs painted blue? I´ve never seen that.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Having the titles covered up is usually not a good sign, is it?

With any other airline I would say its a bad sign, but not here.
Its LH policy since a long time to cover the titles immiadetely after aircraft are put in storage, no matter if these planes are wfu or just temporarily parked. Pictures like these are shown regularly also in non-aviation media, and LH doesnt want uninformed people to see their logo on what will look like abandoned planes. Other airlines dont care so much but I think its good LH (I think SQ has the same policy) does it this way.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11442 times:

What are the reg´s of these 3 MD-11s? I guess the one damaged in MEX some months ago is among them.

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11448 times:

Does LH actually still have some MD-11s stored in LEJ?

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11375 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
Does LH actually still have some MD-11s stored in LEJ?

Nope. D-ALCE was put back into service after the MEX incident



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11238 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 3):
What are the reg´s of these 3 MD-11s? I guess the one damaged in MEX some months ago is among them.

D-ALCS, D-ALCP, D-ALCO

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):
Does LH actually still have some MD-11s stored in LEJ?

No, the in LEJ stored -CE is back in operation.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
Nope. D-ALCE was put back into service after the MEX incident

The reactivation of D-ALCE has nothing to do with the MEX incident. It was planned anyway to bring D-ALCO to VCV and to reactivate D-ALCE in November.



Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Its LH policy since a long time to cover the titles immiadetely after aircraft are put in storage, no matter if these planes are wfu or just temporarily parked. Pictures like these are shown regularly also in non-aviation media, and LH doesnt want uninformed people to see their logo on what will look like abandoned planes. Other airlines dont care so much but I think its good LH (I think SQ has the same policy) does it this way.

Correct.
The HAM-stored 747 D-ABTA has every title and company logo removed for winter storage.

Furthermore, all the remaining A306 in HAM (must be D-AIAT and D-AIAL) have had their titles and logos removed immediatly after withdrawing them from service.

[Edited 2009-12-13 07:54:07 by srbmod]

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11155 times:



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 6):
D-ALCS, D-ALCP, D-ALCO

Ok, I see a pattern here. These are the three secondhand ex pax planes bought from Alitalia and VASP/Varig and also the oldest MD-11s in the fleet. They were built in the early 90s while the MD11s LH bought new are from the late 90s.
I guess because of that there´s a chance they might be sold (or are that leased frames anyway?).


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10331 times:
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Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 6):
The reactivation of D-ALCE has nothing to do with the MEX incident. It was planned anyway to bring D-ALCO to VCV and to reactivate D-ALCE in November

It may have been planned, but it didn't go back into service until after the MEX incident. I was out there they day they pulled her back onto the ramp. It is always nice to see a tri-jet back in the skies



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1042 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10213 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Btw, why are the engines on one of the three LH MD11Fs painted blue? I´ve never seen that.

The left engine of MD-11F in the middle is actually grey as the rest, but is darker due to being in the tail shade of the first MD-11F.


User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 595 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10187 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Btw, why are the engines on one of the three LH MD11Fs painted blue?

I think you mean the one in the middle of the three LHC MD11s. The engine is not painted blue, it's the shadow of the aircrft to the right which makes it look darker.

Sad to see those three beauties sitting there without titles, even if it has nothing to say wether htey will be brought back into service or not.


User currently offlinePagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10032 times:

Is VCV open for any type of tours?

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12715 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9651 times:



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 6):

Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Its LH policy since a long time to cover the titles immiadetely after aircraft are put in storage, no matter if these planes are wfu or just temporarily parked. Pictures like these are shown regularly also in non-aviation media, and LH doesnt want uninformed people to see their logo on what will look like abandoned planes. Other airlines dont care so much but I think its good LH (I think SQ has the same policy) does it this way.

Correct.
The HAM-stored 747 D-ABTA has every title and company logo removed for winter storage.

Furthermore, all the remaining A306 in HAM (must be D-AIAT and D-AIAL) have had their titles and logos removed immediatly after withdrawing them from service.

Thanks to both for clearing that up.

I hope those birds get the chance to fly again soon.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9605 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 7):
Ok, I see a pattern here. These are the three secondhand ex pax planes bought from Alitalia and VASP/Varig and also the oldest MD-11s in the fleet. They were built in the early 90s while the MD11s LH bought new are from the late 90s.
I guess because of that there´s a chance they might be sold (or are that leased frames anyway?).

Yes, thats the pattern.

The PtoFs from Varig and Alitalia are Sierra, Oscar, Papa, Romeo and Quebec.

Those frames are not leased, they were paid with cash as well as the India.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 8):
t may have been planned, but it didn't go back into service until after the MEX incident. I was out there they day they pulled her back onto the ramp. It is always nice to see a tri-jet back in the skies

That is true, but only by chance, not by coincidence, my friend!  Wink
-CE and -CO have nothing do to with each other.

Nevertheless, I agree with your last statement!  Smile


User currently offlineDALCA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8726 times:

This picture makes me very sad, especially that I try my best to keep filling these planes with cargo. I have 200% confidence that with a short time these planes will be flying the cargo routes they once were.


Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

The chance of these birds returning to LH Cargo are very very slim. These should be ex Varig birds and they are in the worst condition of all LH's MD11s.


united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlineDID747 From France, joined Apr 2005, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

Sad to see these beauties at the storage place... very bad.


Waimanalo
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6921 times:



Quoting UA933 (Reply 15):
The chance of these birds returning to LH Cargo are very very slim. These should be ex Varig birds and they are in the worst condition of all LH's MD11s.

You say that, because you have any inside knowledge on the issue?
Or is it mere so called common knowledge on Varig planes letting you say that?

Sorry to say, but the reliability or any kind of "condition" won't be the decisive factor in reactivating those birds. They are now in the hands of LH Cargo and LH Technik for several years. Trust me, their conditions is as good as it can be, even when those PtoFs won't match the new builts in dispatch reliability.

There's anyway no option. LCAG won't see a fleet rollover for several years. My guess is an order mid next decade for delivery for end next decade for new aircraft. As long as that, those beautiful aircraft will fly and earn good money.


User currently offlineDALCA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

very true NicoEDDF.

LCAG and LH tchnik have taken very good care of them and they are pretty planes. They are older then the other LCAG planes and they have a different config which is one of the reasons they have been chosen to leave to the fleet and be stored in the desert.



Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6277 times:

Quoting PagoFlyer (Reply 11):
Is VCV open for any type of tours?

Nope no tours at all, the most I got to do was go up in the tower but that was actually work related.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Indeed.

Having the titles covered up is usually not a good sign, is it?

The one in the middle must have been there a while, no?

The only thing that I could say is that it was a bit odd that they only covered up and not removed the logo's and titles from these 3 MD-11's. None of the 3 have been here too long in fact one of them only arrived here in the past few weeks. I watched it come in at work and then went over there on my way home to see it. It had full titles on but by the next morning they were all covered up.

FX1816

[Edited 2009-12-13 15:47:34]

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13252 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6211 times:
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What I find odd is the MD-11F's still have their engines installed. Compare to the passenger DC-10's that have the engine bays capped off; there are nickel parts hard mounted on the engine visable! This to me implies these planes will fly again shortly.

Quoting NicoEDDF (Thread starter):
I hate to see them there...

Very sad. I wouldn't use the word hate, but it is sad to see them at VCV.

Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Its odd to see these rather young MD11s parked among and surrounded only by oldies which highly likely wont fly anymore.

My thoughts too! L1011's and MD-11's... weird combo.

Quoting NA (Reply 2):
and then there are 3 pax DC-10s, which dont have more than 1% chance to be reactivated.

Ghad... you have great eyes! I had to look twice to make sure those weren't pax to freight conversions! I agree, any DC-10 that isn't already freight is not going to be converted and passenger demand is done.

Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 17):
There's anyway no option. LCAG won't see a fleet rollover for several years. My guess is an order mid next decade for delivery for end next decade for new aircraft. As long as that, those beautiful aircraft will fly and earn good money.

That depends on the curfew rules at FRA. If they go into effect (which looks likely), LH has stated they will discontinue dedicated cargo ops.  Sad Is that a bluff or true? I do not know. But it is possible LH considers these birds finished.

But if so, why are the engines still there? That implies they will fly again.  hyper 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

The L-1011 on the left is not ATA. It's CS-TMR, formerly of Luzair. The ATA L10 must be N162AT, as I understand both 163 and 164 now are active with Barq and Privilege in the Middle East.


- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineGymClassHero From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

I read in an aviation magazine recently (Airliner World or Airways?) that 3 L1011s were going to the Middle East to do humanitarian work, all ex-ATA. Is the one in the middle of that shot one of the jets being reactivated?

User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Humanitarian work? Don't make me laugh! Only for the owner's wallet ....

I would recommend reading through this pprune thread. It describes the operationg environment for many of the remaining L10's .. It will take you a while, but it's worth it.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineBottie From Belgium, joined May 2004, 281 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3724 times:



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 21):
The L-1011 on the left is not ATA. It's CS-TMR, formerly of Luzair. The ATA L10 must be N162AT, as I understand both 163 and 164 now are active with Barq and Privilege in the Middle East.

Taking a look on my RAW-files of that picture gave me the following regs:


From left to right: N737D, N756DA, CS-TMR, N1732D and N162AT for the ATA.


25 NA : I think those DC-10s are old Continental birds, the like I´ve flown on the 90s. If true I´m surprised they are still there. The MD-11Fs are recent
26 NicoEDDF : While that is true... ...they are still there, because there is already a reactivation date (!) forecasted. Until drastic changes would kick in, those
27 Post contains links 747classic : Will Charly Oscar be repaired ? According the following thread the work will probably start in March 2010 and take around two months. The repair costs
28 Candid76 : I wouldn't be too sure about the DC10s fate. They may be the Omni examples which are candidates for conversion to fire bombers. That may or may not ha
29 NA : You´re right, I´m right, those are former Omni Air DC-10s which before flew for Continental. Maybe one might be converted to a firembomber, unlikel
30 FX1816 : Actually the only reason why the 3 LH MD11's are parked where they are is because the company that is handling them has that plot to park aircraft in
31 Lightsaber : That is what I found odd. FX1816 implies it is a plot of land owned by one of the airport operators. Excellent! Lightsaber
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