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AF A380 Stay On Ground At JFK  
User currently offlineDID747 From France, joined Apr 2005, 400 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 31904 times:

The daily AF A380 from JFK to CDG is still on ground this morning, What's the problem today?
An airport hotel was called for All the 580 pax but 2 hours later, the manager told them the hotel was full!!!
So AF choose another hotel, but later full too!!! At this time 70 pax are still waiting in the terminal .
Any info?


Waimanalo
107 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 31677 times:

So what is the problem? The engines I suppose?
This brand new 380 seems to have had a few glitches lately.

Looked on PPRuNe and FlyerTalk forums.
Nothing on JFKTower forums either. I did not find any info on this.
Does anyone have the latest info?



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 31563 times:

Nothing on NYCAviation site either.  Yeah sure
No news on any of the main aviation sites.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 31178 times:
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Quoting DID747 (Thread starter):
An airport hotel was called for All the 580 pax

I didn't know AF had configured the aircraft to have that many pax?!


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 31103 times:

http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/sto...0-musste-am-Boden-bleiben-25640981

Website of Swiss newspaper 20 Minuten now reports the following (link only in German):

First pax were informed, there was a problem with a door, afterwards some concerns about the fuel tanks. Finally the captain announced that a document of the "flight approval" (German: Fluggenehmigung) was missing, whatever that is. Pax count was 511, all rebooked onto later flights, according to 20min.ch.

Sigi



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 31052 times:

Fuel tank issues... Who knows. Maybe the old fuel pump issue again?

I suppose the captain's reference to flight documents meant they were trying to MEL the defect.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 30712 times:

It seems that AF have problems with all its a/c types: A330, 77W (AF had the highest number of IFSD) and now, it seems that the A380 has problem every week!!! What's wrong with AF?!


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 29312 times:

The problem on a fuel system can not be fixed at JFK.

F-HPJA has to be flown back to CDG on 3 engines but AF pilots are not allowed to do this and that can done only by Airbus pilots.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
It seems that AF have problems with all its a/c types: A330, 77W (AF had the highest number of IFSD) and now, it seems that the A380 has problem every week!!! What's wrong with AF?!

QF has problems with its A380, many airlines had IFSD problems with their B77W, and actually, ALL airlines have problems with all their aircraft, so please, don't bring back here on A.Net this "simplistic" and recurrent debate.


User currently offlineSparkingwave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 29123 times:

It's simple. The AF A380 is waiting for the B787 back in Washington state to take off on its test flight...  Smile


Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1041 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 25424 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
It seems that AF have problems with all its a/c types: A330, 77W (AF had the highest number of IFSD) and now, it seems that the A380 has problem every week!!! What's wrong with AF?!

I have to agree. Just seems like they have slightly more problems than others. I would the proximity to Airbus and Toulouse would be beneficial but apparently not.

Why can they not fix the 4th engine here? What if they lose the third in flight?

Can a A380 fly on two engines once airborne cross the Atlantic?


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 25368 times:

Must we really open a new thread on each little problem a A380 runs into?

User currently offlineGRIVely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 25281 times:

So they are contemplating ferrying the aircraft back to France on three engines? Do the JFK authorities have any say so in allowing a four-engine aircraft to take off on three engines? What if there is an engine failure on takeoff? Wouldn't want to dump the aircraft into a bunch of skyscrapers in New York City.

Would appreciate any informed observations.

GRIV


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 25122 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Must we really open a new thread on each little problem a A380 runs into?

yes, that is why this is an aviation forum. Besides, it's a new aircraft, so it will by nature be under more scrutiny to learn from these problems. Like they say on TV, if you're not happy, change the channel.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 25067 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
F-HPJA has to be flown back to CDG on 3 engines but AF pilots are not allowed to do this and that can done only by Airbus pilots.

Is that the case? I'd think AF pilots are perfectly capable of performing such a ferry flight, but I could be wrong.

Quoting GRIVely (Reply 12):
So they are contemplating ferrying the aircraft back to France on three engines? Do the JFK authorities have any say so in allowing a four-engine aircraft to take off on three engines? What if there is an engine failure on takeoff? Wouldn't want to dump the aircraft into a bunch of skyscrapers in New York City.

I think ferry flights have much much less stringent restrictions.


User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 24342 times:



Quoting Sparkingwave (Reply 9):
It's simple. The AF A380 is waiting for the B787 back in Washington state to take off on its test flight.

EXACTLY!!  Big grin The A380 really wants to see the 787 fly, so it has chosen to wait until 787 first flight! Of course the fact that the two flights are thousands of miles apart and the aircraft will come nowhere near each other has not really sunk in yet.. But once it does, we may see this aircraft depart.  Silly

But seriously, its not that big of a deal  Cool



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 24049 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Must we really open a new thread on each little problem a A380 runs into?

It's actually very interesting to know that AF pilots can't fly the A380 back to France for repair, that Airbus has to do it. It would seem this isn't a little thing.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 23477 times:



Quoting David_itl (Reply 4):
Quoting DID747 (Thread starter):
An airport hotel was called for All the 580 pax

I didn't know AF had configured the aircraft to have that many pax?!

 sarcastic 

9P + 80J + 449 Y = 538 seats.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2416 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 23199 times:

So what's the problem exactly, door, fuel tank or engine?

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineMmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 22935 times:

You know EK, does have a fully trained A380 Engineering department at JFK...

Why doesn't someone take the airtrain over to T4 and ask for some help...lol, and right after the 777 departs, I'm sure EK would be glad to help out.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinePlateman From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22423 times:

More info via AP (USA Today):

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...-15-air-france-a380-grounded_N.htm

:Tymen says the issue is being investigated by maintenance personnel, and that initial signs point to a fuel line problem. It is not clear when the plane will take off.:



"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2416 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22413 times:



Quoting Mmedford (Reply 20):
You know EK, does have a fully trained A380 Engineering department at JFK...

They haven't been serving JFK with an A380 for around 6 months now. Are those engineers still current !  Big grin

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22177 times:

Question please,
Once an airline has been given a brand new aircraft, of a new type, how many practice flights do cabin/flight deck crew get before it goes LIVE?

If the answer is none, why complain when something goes wrong.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22156 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 22):
They haven't been serving JFK with an A380 for around 6 months now. Are those engineers still current ! Big grin

Thenoflyzone

Exactly what i'm saying, but now that EK starts JFK again, i wonder what happened to them when EK stopped A380 at JFK.
What happened to the engineers?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlineSkoker From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 439 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22101 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 15):

JFK is nowhere near Toulouse. It's across the Atlantic.

Pretty sure that he meant that the France in Air France is pretty close to Toulouse - Toulouse is in France  eyebrow 


User currently offlineBriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 22101 times:

A couple of observations, First off I am shocked to see only 9 first class seats on AF A380. Second the A380 is still fairly newish so three engine ferry flights may not be allowed but only for a few specially certified pilots. I would be curious to see what the flight envelope would be for such a flight.

25 MadameConcorde : Will they really have to fly Airbus house pilots to JFK to bring the AF380 back to France? Why can't the AF pilots do it themselves? They will have t
26 PurpleBox : No, just costly for AirBus.
27 MadameConcorde : Airbus does not build engines. I suppose it is the engines that defaulted not the frame.
28 2175301 : I also think that it is far to early to be woried about A380 availability. While there are interesting items about this event (the fact that the plane
29 Luv2cattlecall : Great point... 2 engines combined don't have much more power than one 777 engine... Even with half empty fuel tanks and no pax/cargo, I have a hard t
30 Goldorak : Argghhhh. I'm flying AF006 on saturday Do you think it will be fixed by that time ??? Please !!!!
31 KLM672 : Goldorak, We spoke a few weeks ago and I mentioned that as you get off I'll be getting on. I am hoping that it will be fixed by then. Let's both keep
32 Catiii : Exactly. Don't like it? Don't read it...
33 BrouAviation : While I ask that question myself sometimes too, we of course have to consider AF is new in operating the A380. Still, I agree you'd expect they prepa
34 Keesje : Since when is an aircraft going tech on the ground world news? I guess there are a few more..
35 Rcair1 : With all due respect, the A380 is hardly "an aircraft" - it is: - The newest one in commercial flight - Historically, the biggest commercial jet - On
36 Khobar : Do they have to pay for overnight parking by weight or size or not at all?
37 B6JFKH81 : I really have to disagree with this. While I understand your points, an aircraft going AOG is NOTEworthy, but not NEWSworthy. AOG's happen all over t
38 KLM672 : I did a little playing around on Airfrance.com and I found a flight leaving early tomorrow morning from JFK: 4:30AM and its flight number 4191. Do you
39 KL911 : Pfff, at least AF and lately KL did have their share though.... Hope it will improve. It was a nightmare delay week for KL with the maintenance probl
40 Mmedford : Many of them are still there, and their A&P is still current... Why wouldn't they be qualified to repair the aircraft?
41 Madviking : EK had an engine vibration problem on an inbound flight to YYZ in August. Pax were re-booked on other carriers, and after a 23 hour delay the 380 was
42 Soon7x7 : In all fairness, seems all A380 operators having issues with the A380, but this was common with the inception of the 747 and I will suspect the 787 sh
43 Gatorman96 : We will see threads of this nature regarding the 787 as well.
44 Yyzbiker : Hey good call asking the JFK EK guys to help trouble shoot. Maybe Airbus Bob will be called from YYZ to go have a look. Don't call him on Wednesday be
45 DualQual : I think you mean V1 To be honest I wouldn't think it would be all that different from a 747 ferry on 3 engines in terms of contingency planning. As a
46 Soon7x7 : I believe it was Emirates that called for a madatory meeting a couple of months ago with Airbus reps to discuss the "unsatisfactory string of events"
47 Francoflier : As far as I know, airport authorities don't have a say if the aircraft is operated under the limitations of its type certificate delivered by the FAA
48 Jeffb77w : lets just hope that AF can get this bird in service because this is peak time for airliners in the world
49 FlySSC : Don't have time to list them all ... but do a search on the web and you should be surprised by the number of IFSD that occurred on other B77W than AF
50 Ferengi80 : I really wouldn't think an engine failure after V1 would be catastrophic. I would think that the sheer power generated by two GP7200 engines is enoug
51 AustrianZRH : What about the induced yaw moment if the engine failure happens on the one-engined side, i.e., two engines running on the same side of the aircraft?
52 AABB777 : So what is the current status of the a/c? Is it still at Kennedy?
53 Kappel : Two stranded 777's this week? Have not heard about that. Would you like to give some more info about KL's problems this week? I think he did mean V2,
54 KLM672 : Yeah, an update would be nice if anyone has more info. Thanks!
55 Metroliner : Yes, beyond all doubt. I think we're making a little mountain out of a molehill here. It's a big plane, but AF easily have the capacity to get everyo
56 UALWN : This article here (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/11/09/334396/a380s-stellar-performance-undermined-by-ongoing-technical-issues-operators.
57 Post contains links AeroPiggot : More information on the A380 fuel problem. This is news because one of the concerns we all had with the A380, is how do you handle 500+ stranded passe
58 KLM672 : In the advent that it stays an 777, will the seat map update itself in my "Manage My Reservations" from A380 to 777? I'm just hoping to get a window s
59 LongHauler : As scary as it sounds, not only can it do it, but in theory it could do it at max takeoff weight as well! If it were not legal and capable, it would
60 Goldorak : is there anybody on this forum who have an update ? Is the bird back to CDG now or is it still in JFK ? I'm flying AF006 on saturday and will very lik
61 Post contains links NIKV69 : Seems like it's still down. They are using a 777 as we speak for AFR6 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR6
62 Post contains links Goldorak : here's an update (sorry in French) from Le Point, a reliable French magazine http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-soc...bus-a380-d-air-france/920/0/405065
63 Khobar : Wouldn't this likely be covered under warranty? If airlines can try to get money for "lost revenue" when planes are delayed, it would seem that they
64 Post contains links JohnJ : This flight was listed on FlightAware as having operated with a 777. However, the post above indicated the A380 ferry arrived at CDG around 10 this m
65 NIKV69 : Ever think of calling your carrier and asking? I doubt it, they probably are going over the 380 to fix any problems.
66 Goldorak : Yes. Thank you very much
67 Post contains links 474218 : Warranties cover the parts and labor, if a warranted part was the cause, not loss of revenue. This site should help understanding aircraft warranties
68 Viscount724 : And 2-engine ferry flights on 3-engine aircraft.
69 Aesma : Don't know about le point reliability, but it doesn't really make sense. The aircraft was fixed but made a ferry flight ?
70 Post contains images Moek2000 : Sad...I was on this bird on 12.12...
71 MadViking : Like putting on a spare temporary tire to get home and to the garage. I'm sure Air France Maintenance will give it the once over at CDG. If it was wo
72 Caetravlr : Maybe slightly off topic for this particular incident, but what happens if this was one of those cases where pax paid extra specifically to make the t
73 FlySSC : F-HPJA was flown back to CDG where it landed yesturday (Wed. 16) morning LT. It is schedulled to return to service today (Thu. 17) and to operate AF00
74 FlySSC : There is no "extra" charged for flights on the A380.
75 JohnJ : FlightAware shows AFR6 as operated with 388 equipment today. However, Air France's web site shows the flight as running 4 hours late already, with a d
76 LondonCity : That makes sense but I can't think of any shorter routes for the A380 (bearing in mind only a few airports can handle this craft) from Paris CDG othe
77 Cesarv777 : Well said.
78 JohnJ : The routes don't necessarily have to make economic sense. For instance, I believe Northwest broke in its 747-400 operations by flying them MSP-PHX fo
79 Goldorak : I just saw that. Does anybody knows if this delay is only due to the current weather conditions (snow) at CDG today or is there another technical pb
80 FlySSC : Yep ! (Snow, icy rains) Very bad weather at CDG today and lots of cancellation. Same thing planned for tomorrow. Tonight, The DGAC asked the airlines
81 Vtmaa : Maybe the pilots refused to fly the plane as the fuselage is not dirty enough for AF standards. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone.
82 Post contains images ExFATboy : But passengers could have chosen Air France over other, cheaper carriers, or chosen this particular flight on this particular day to be sure to get t
83 JohnJ : Now there's no scheduled departure time listed, and there's this comment at the bottom of the flight status section: "Flight AF006 is delayed due to a
84 Goldorak : now scheduled at 23:59
85 JohnJ : From FlyteComm and FlightAware, looks like the 77W again on this very late flight.
86 Goldorak : ADP web site also displayed now a 777W...AF should be mad with all these problems on the A380. I think it's a right decision to not send the A380 ton
87 Aesma : Yeah I thought about that, but I wouldn't call that a repair. And then if it was not flyable commercially, our questions about the ferry flight still
88 FlySSC : Today Friday 18th, AF006 is also scheduled with a B77W ... And the bad weather conditions at CDG doesn't help . The delivery of the second aircraft, F
89 Revelation : I'm trying to patch togehter the timeline from this thread: So she didn't fly the planned Mon JFK->CDG. So she didn't fly the planned Tue CDG->JFK and
90 Post contains links Goldorak : hard time for the AF frame. See the following link (sorry, in French) http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-soc...us-a-380-a-nouveau-en/920/0/406408 They h
91 FlySSC : AF operated two additional flights with an A343 on CDG-JFK-CDG on the days the A380 was "grounded" to provide enough capacity.
92 Revelation : Seems like the right thing to do but then there is one less 777 and one less A343 for the rest of the system. Hopefully they could juggle things arou
93 Jreuschl : Does AF have a set number of aircraft for spares?
94 Astuteman : [ Michael Crighton eat your heart out...... What's frustrating is that many of these problems seem to be "sensor" problems rather than "aircraft" prob
95 Goldorak : I couldn't agree more
96 B6JFKH81 : As is often the case. This sends the alarm back to Airbus to light a fire under the butts of the OEM of the individual component(s) to upgrade it. Th
97 Post contains links Revelation : Googling brought me to http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...5481&airlineCode=AF&flightNumber=6 which says today's AF6 departed CDG 61 minutes late a
98 Revelation : I just heard JFK tower give France 6 Super it's taxiing directions so this part of the saga is over! Fantastique!
99 OldAeroGuy : Since you have to regard the airplane as a system consisting of the sum of its parts, there is no difference between the "sensors" and the "airplane"
100 Astuteman : It should be obvious from my posts that I am fully aware of that, hence the inverted commas. Rgds[Edited 2009-12-19 14:26:30]
101 Goldorak : YESSS I just arrived at my hotel after a fantastic flight on-board the A380 in 1st class. Flight 100% full in all classes. The ground experience at C
102 Mindscape : I believe we will be on the same flight, not same class though...
103 747400sp : I argee.
104 Flighty : Will Airbus provide a courtesy A380 to Air France until the problems are fixed?
105 Mir : Taxiing out now. -Mir
106 Post contains images MH017 : Was supposed to fly back JFK-CDG last thursday (17dec09), but flight was delayed till 3am the next day; since I was early at JFK (5 hours bef dep), A
107 Revelation : Congratulations, and best of luck on the return journey!
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