Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
LGA-HND?  
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3921 times:

This is an off-the-wall idea, but I would like to hear what the opinions are the feasibility of this route. I know that LGA is perimeter restricted, but those restrictions are lifted on Saturdays. Once OpenSkies takes effect and HND is opened up I know that there will be JFK/EWR-HND service. Is it feasible that an airline shifts this service to LGA one day a week?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

NO...what aircraft can get out of LGA and go nonstop to HND with a decent load?


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2972 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

there is no US immigration in LGA as far as I know so definately not possible. even the Canada flights got cleared before departure in Canada.

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3127 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3902 times:



Quoting LAXtoATL (Thread starter):
This is an off-the-wall idea, but I would like to hear what the opinions are the feasibility of this route. I know that LGA is perimeter restricted, but those restrictions are lifted on Saturdays. Once OpenSkies takes effect and HND is opened up I know that there will be JFK/EWR-HND service. Is it feasible that an airline shifts this service to LGA one day a week?

I would say no. Simply because LGA's runways arent long enough for any aircraft to takeoff with any meaningful payload and fly to Tokyo.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Hi LAX to ATL!

Even with the perimter rule lifted, I see a problem with the runway length of LGA.

LGA-HND is 5876 nm according to Great Circle Mapper.

No airplane would be able to do that nonstop from LGA. Some business jets might do it.

Regards Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Thank you all for your quick responses. Like I said it was just an off-the-wall idea that popped in my head and I wanted to know if it was feasible. I NOW KNOW IT IS NOT!

[Edited 2009-12-17 14:16:26]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3806 times:



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 2):
there is no US immigration in LGA as far as I know so definately not possible. even the Canada flights got cleared before departure in Canada.

LGA has US customs/immigration services, but only for private aircraft, business jets etc. They lack the facilities to handle airline flights. If they had no customs/immigration services, flights from Canada (and Bermuda/Nassau/Aruba which also operate periodically) could not operate to LGA. Even points like those with US pre-clearance are still restricted to landing at US airports with at least minimal customs/immigration service.


User currently offlineJeffb77w From Dominican Republic, joined Dec 2009, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

that can never happen unless the runway is longer then what is now!!!!why would you even think about such a idea like this?????????

User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

the whole point of HND and LGA is closer to city center than their respective counterparts of NRT and JFK to improve convenience for business travelers.

how many businessmen you know who makes Sat-only trips ?

the trend nowadays is towards restriction-free 24x7 airports by the sea (to minimize noise), and have speedy (<30mins) rail into city center, as well as convenient connections onto national high speed rail (like TGV right in the middle of CDG).

A reliable and dependable 15-min train ride to an airport far away is worth way more to me than a close airport but could take up to 1 hr due to traffic jam (like LGA).

if they can extend certain Shinkansen trains to terminate in Narita instead of Tokyo Downtown, and make the trip ~30 mins instead of 1 hour, that practically negates the need to jam all 80mil into HND !


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3677 times:



Quoting Jeffb77w (Reply 7):
that can never happen unless the runway is longer then what is now!!!!why would you even think about such a idea like this?????????

I would think of the idea because I have no idea how the long the runways are at LGA or how much runway is required for any aircraft to takeoff.

Did you miss the part where I said it was an off the wall idea and I wanted to know if it was feasible??????? And why would you assume everybody knows runway lengths (is this suppose to be general knowledge nowadays)??????????


User currently offlineJeffb77w From Dominican Republic, joined Dec 2009, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

yeap saw that you said it was just off the wall topic men!!!!sorry

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16863 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3587 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):
the whole point of HND and LGA is closer to city center than their respective counterparts of NRT and JFK to improve convenience for business travelers.

If that's the criteria why not TEB, it's the closest airport to Manhattan and it's the preferred airport for the Corporate and entertainment elite.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3489 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):
the whole point of HND and LGA is closer to city center than their respective counterparts of NRT and JFK to improve convenience for business travelers.

If that's the criteria why not TEB, it's the closest airport to Manhattan and it's the preferred airport for the Corporate and entertainment elite.

Scheduled flights are prohibited at TEB.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30974 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3440 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A 737-700ER could do it with all nine auxiliary fuel tanks, but it would need to be a very low-density and light-weight configuration since the 737BBJ with an OEW of 43t can only carry about 3t of payload 6000nm.

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5135 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3298 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
A 737-700ER could do it with all nine auxiliary fuel tanks, but it would need to be a very low-density and light-weight configuration since the 737BBJ with an OEW of 43t can only carry about 3t of payload 6000nm.

Compare that with the BA LCY-NYC service. If it's a pure business ACJ or BBJ , how many pax can LGA handle? And why not a fuelstop combined with customs like the BA flights?


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 3221 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
And why not a fuelstop combined with customs like the BA flights?

Fuel stop at Santa's workshop on the North Pole? Because that too is just as likely as this flight.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2631 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 3168 times:



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
NO...what aircraft can get out of LGA and go nonstop to HND with a decent load?



Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 3):
I would say no. Simply because LGA's runways arent long enough for any aircraft to takeoff with any meaningful payload and fly to Tokyo.



Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 4):
Even with the perimter rule lifted, I see a problem with the runway length of LGA.



Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 4):
No airplane would be able to do that nonstop from LGA. Some business jets might do it.

Reminds me of an off-the-wall idea from a CO executive in the 80's, who wanted to use the DC10-30 aircraft that were pulled from canceled SouthPac service to provide the only non-stop LGA-LAX service. Apparently no other aircraft could make such a trip due to range or wieght restrictions over the pier portion of the runway.

Besides the perimeter rule (was it in force in the 80's?), the idea was shot down as the aircraft had to lift off before going onto the pier portion of the runway. The bat-out-of-hell takeoff roll that would be required was determined that it would place the aircraft in a dangerous torquing problem if the number 1 or 3 engine were lost during takeoff.


User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2889 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
LGA has US customs/immigration services, but only for private aircraft, business jets etc. They lack the facilities to handle airline flights. If they had no customs/immigration services, flights from Canada (and Bermuda/Nassau/Aruba which also operate periodically) could not operate to LGA. Even points like those with US pre-clearance are still restricted to landing at US airports with at least minimal customs/immigration service.

Not sure what you mean here. All the overseas ports you mentioned have pre arrival US Immigration and Customs at their respective points of origin. Hence why airlines can operate international services to/from LGA despite the lack of US Customs/Immigration facilities. Why would an airport need DHS on site when they are already processed prior to arrival to the US?


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2783 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
If they had no customs/immigration services, flights from Canada (and Bermuda/Nassau/Aruba which also operate periodically) could not operate to LGA.



Quoting Airzim (Reply 17):
Why would an airport need DHS on site when they are already processed prior to arrival to the US?

In other words, LGA having customs and immigration for FBOs us very independent of it having flights to destinations with preclearance.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1982 times:



Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 9):

Did you miss the part where I said it was an off the wall idea and I wanted to know if it was feasible??????? And why would you assume everybody knows runway lengths (is this suppose to be general knowledge nowadays)??????????

Kind of - at least on a place like airliners.net. It's not general knowledge for the general populace though.

But consider yourself warned: Runways at LGA (both are approximately 7,000 feet) are generally considered too short for anything other than domestic/Canada/Caribbean operations.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

How about one-stop service? I dunno who the heck would fly such a flight, but I wonder if a flight like this would even be permitted under the LGA perimeter rule as it is. Like I wonder if you could fly a very lightly loaded 777 (or 787) out of LGA to, say, Chicago, then fly ORD-HND and back again.


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1790 times:



Quoting Airzim (Reply 17):
Not sure what you mean here. All the overseas ports you mentioned have pre arrival US Immigration and Customs at their respective points of origin. Hence why airlines can operate international services to/from LGA despite the lack of US Customs/Immigration facilities. Why would an airport need DHS on site when they are already processed prior to arrival to the US?



Quoting Captaink (Reply 18):
In other words, LGA having customs and immigration for FBOs us very independent of it having flights to destinations with preclearance.

That isn't the case, though. Despite pre-clearance, the arrival airport in the USA must be designated a US point of entry and have FIS facilities on site to receive an international flight. This measure is in place in case the flight were need to be re-screened, individual passengers need to be investigated/detained, etc. This is a requirement even if the US CBP facilities at the arrival airport are not sufficient to regularly handle commercial flights, such as at LGA and DCA.

The most often cited example of this was AS's ill-fated YVR-SNA service in 2002. They made it as far as departing from YVR and flying to California only to be denied landing at SNA because it is not a designated point of entry for international flights and does not have proper customs facilities on site. The flight was diverted to ONT, which is a designated point of entry, and the YVR-SNA service had to be canceled from that point forward.


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1611 times:



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 20):
Like I wonder if you could fly a very lightly loaded 777 (or 787) out of LGA to, say, Chicago, then fly ORD-HND and back again.

There is no need for "light load" on that. It's a normal routing except for landing at LGA, which any old aircraft can do, empty, except maybe VLAs.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
LGA CTB And EWR A Postponed Indef posted Fri Dec 11 2009 09:30:24 by Jfkgaylga
Japan To Authorise Intl' Daytime Flights Ex-HND posted Mon Dec 7 2009 20:43:00 by Kaitak
773 Emergency - EWR/LGA/JFk? posted Mon Dec 7 2009 12:22:26 by 7gm7
Does DL Operate Nonstop LGA-SLC? posted Sat Dec 5 2009 20:55:56 by AF022
EWR At Almost 3 Hours Delays Now - LGA/JFK None! posted Sat Dec 5 2009 15:38:15 by N62NA
US To Block 40 LGA Slots Flying 94 Mile Route posted Fri Nov 27 2009 07:18:36 by Enilria
Airtran Aborted Takeoff At LGA posted Wed Nov 25 2009 20:33:28 by Darthluke12694
Slot Swap At LGA? posted Thu Nov 12 2009 21:45:40 by Blueman87
Is UA Downgrading ORD-LGA? posted Sat Nov 7 2009 06:06:33 by United787
DL To Increase LGA-MSY posted Mon Nov 2 2009 03:33:21 by MSYtristar
DL To Increase LGA-MSY posted Mon Nov 2 2009 03:33:21 by MSYtristar