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Snow Affects Flights In The UK Again - LTN Closed  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9867 times:

It only ever happens in the UK, the first few flakes of snow land on the ground and the UK grinds to halt.

Luton Airport's website is advising all operations are suspened for 2hrs between 10pm and 12midnight due to "Severe Weather".

Snow has been expected all week and the moment it starts hitting the ground all chaos lets loose! Other London airports may not be as effected, Luton is one of the highest airports being in the Chiltern Hills and lying over 550ft above sea level.

There is one airline at Luton (easyJet), that are likely to be furious! They threatened to sue the airport over £1.5million earlier this year in February when the airport shut on numerous occassions and told the airport to get themselves sorted... They were very vocal in the local press.

To add to passenger misery, the shuttle bus to the LTN Parkway railway station is not running and will mean passengers will have a 1 mile walk down the hill to get their trains!

This time of evening at LTN is usually very busy as all the based aircrafts of easyJet, Monarch and Ryanair are returning to base for the evening between these hours. It could cause problems if divertions take place and aircraft not been in the right place in the morning.

Any other UK airports effected?

http://www.london-luton.co.uk/emergency/

Update:

Just seen the weather and the MET Office have issued a severe weather warning for East Anglia and the South East of England for heavy snow all night and tomorrow morning.

Airport is now closed till 3.30am!

Arrivals Board:
EZY2440 Paris 18:30 23:30 Estimated 23:30
W6109 Katowice 20:10 23:30 Estimated 23:30
EZY022 Edinburgh 21:00 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY2176 Dortmund 21:05 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY148 Aberdeen 21:20 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY2316 Hamburg 21:30 03:30 Estimated 03:30
TOM845 Sharm El Sheikh 21:30 23:30 Estimated 23:30
EZY2268 Barcelona 21:40 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY2286 Milan-Malpensa 21:45 03:30 Estimated 03:30
FR3512 Lanzarote 22:00 23:30 Estimated 23:30
EZY2442 Paris 22:00 22:00
EZY2068 Geneva 22:15 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY2206 Madrid 22:25 03:30 Estimated 03:30
EZY2106 Berlin-Schonefeld 22:30 03:30 Estimated 03:30
FR3467 Kaunas 22:40 23:30 Estimated 23:30
EZY2086 Tel Aviv 23:05 03:30 Estimated 03:30
FR342 Dublin 23:05 23:30 Estimated 23:30
FR3883 Malta 23:05 23:30 Estimated 23:30
EZY2398 Sharm El Sheikh 23:20 03:30 Estimated 03:30
ZB075 Lanzarote 23:50 00:01 Estimated 00:01


[Edited 2009-12-17 15:24:29 by gilesdavies]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9858 times:

I hope to dear god BA and BAA have learned from the fun we had in Feb with the snow. LOTS of delays at LHR on BA flights, not looked at other airlines. Im right next to the airport and we have a good deal of it here and its still coming down, so will be a fun day at work tomorrow.

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9855 times:

As you say Luton is high up in the Chiltern hills and exposed, in addition it doesn't have proper taxiways, all aircraft have to backtrack at both ends of the runway, this in itself makes snow clearance more difficult

Not a good location, and a poor layout, it is however cheap so the LCC's love it !!!


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Looking at BAA LHR it looks like nearly everything is delayed!!

User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9785 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
As you say Luton is high up in the Chiltern hills and exposed

Sorry to have a chuckle at you poor guys' expense, but please... come on over and visit DEN or MSP some time between October and March!

Seriously, though, hope everything works out and passengers are minimally affected.


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9746 times:

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 4):
Sorry to have a chuckle at you poor guys' expense, but please... come on over and visit DEN or MSP some time between October and March!

Completely agree with you!

It is laughable in the UK and most Brits would agree, the moment snow drops, chaos happens on the countries transport network!

Trying to keep the argument balanced, this sort of weather usually only happens once or twice a year in the south of the UK (there are exceptions), it is not deemed economical for the government agencies and airports to buy expensive equipment that it likely to be only used several times a year.

Airports and authorities do obviously have equipment in place, but not the biggest and best like cities in the US or Canada.

[Edited 2009-12-17 15:33:24 by gilesdavies]

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

LGW runway apparently closed!!

User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9658 times:



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 4):
Sorry to have a chuckle at you poor guys' expense, but please... come on over and visit DEN or MSP some time between October and March!

Denver has the same amount of runways as all of London's five airports combined. We don't have spare runways that can be used while others are cleared. Gatwick, Luton and Stansted only have one runway, so when it needs to be cleared it has to be closed.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 6):
It is laughable in the UK and most Brits would agree, the moment snow drops, chaos happens on the countries transport network!

It happens once or twice a year. I think most Brits would agree that it is not worth spending vast amounts of money that we don't have preparing for something that occurs so rarely.


User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1818 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9604 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 6):
Completely agree with you!

It is laughable in the UK and most Brits would agree, the moment snow drops, chaos happens on the countries transport network!

Were used to it over here though. Roads close for the lightest of coverings. Remember, we have a rail network that is flummoxed by a leaf on a line! Very pathetic.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8643 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9524 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 2):
Not a good location, and a poor layout, it is however cheap so the LCC's love it !!!



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
There is one airline at Luton (easyJet), that are likely to be furious! They threatened to sue the airport over £1.5million earlier this year in February when the airport shut on numerous occassions and told the airport to get themselves sorted... They were very vocal in the local press.

File this under: You get what you pay for  Smile

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 8):
It happens once or twice a year. I think most Brits would agree that it is not worth spending vast amounts of money that we don't have preparing for something that occurs so rarely.

But that's the thing. In most cases you don't have to spend much. You can just hand a plow in front of a truck or tractor. Or they can do what my town does: contract with the local farmers to come plow the roads with their tractors when it snows. There's not much farming going on in the Winter and they're willing and able to make a few extra bucks during what must be a very slow time of the year for them.


User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2181 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9456 times:

Just looked at LHR's TAF for tomorrow...not good, 36kt crosswinds and no vertical visibility for much of the day.

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9449 times:



Quoting BA777 (Reply 11):
Just looked at LHR's TAF for tomorrow...not good, 36kt crosswinds and no vertical visibility for much of the day.

Me thinks overtime will be available. If I get up early enough will call work and go in early.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9420 times:



Quoting BA777 (Reply 11):
Just looked at LHR's TAF for tomorrow...not good, 36kt crosswinds and no vertical visibility for much of the day.

It's clearing up after lunch though, so only large scale chaos.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
It only ever happens in the UK, the first few flakes of snow land on the ground and the UK grinds to halt.

From the Daily Mash.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9345 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Luton Airport's website is advising all operations are suspened for 2hrs between 10pm and 12midnight due to "Severe Weather".

Snow has been expected all week and the moment it starts hitting the ground all chaos lets loose! Other London airports may not be as effected, Luton is one of the highest airports being in the Chiltern Hills and lying over 550ft above sea level.

I think you will find that the chaos breaks loose before the snow actually hits the ground. I live not far from LTN. Earlier this evening during the blizzard (10 miles west in the Chilterns) visibility was less than 200 meters. And I would not fancy beinfg in an aircraft landing at LTN in a blizzard with less than 200m visibility.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
It only ever happens in the UK, the first few flakes of snow land on the ground and the UK grinds to halt.

In the Nordic countries this also happens when earlier than expected snow falls occur. I have been in both Oslo and Stockholm on days when a significant amount of very early season snow has fallen. Both cities ground to a halt. This happened because either all or most vehicles were not fitted at that time with winter tyres.

In many Nordic countries (cities / areas) the use of winter tyres is compulsory. For example I believe this is the case throughout Sweden between 1 December and 31 March while in Oslo I believe you are allowed to use them betweem 1 November and the Sunday after Easter Sunday, but not outside this period. (Winter tyres chew up the road surface much more quickly than standard tyres so the authorities will not allow their year round use.)

But I guess that if the British government decreed that we British needed to have a set of (expensive) winter tyres for our cars, it would give us something else to moan about:

"It only snows every few years so why should I have all that money tied up in a set of expensive tyres that most years I do not use and when I can use them it is only for a few days?"

Also recognise that unlike we British who complain if the side road where we live is not immediately cleared, our Nordic friends do not expect their roads to be cleared. They drive on the (uncleared) snow.

Of course airports are a different matter. But do not assume it is just a matter of snow on a runway or a runway being closed while it is cleared. Snow above the runway that has not yet reached the ground can be even more of a problem.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9342 times:

EDI was also closed for a couple of hours for snow clearance around 19:00 this evening.

Aircraft diverted to GLA

LBA flights diverted to MAN and DSA

T3 have cancelled there first flights from NCL to CWL, BHX and ABZ

LGW flights being diverted as far north as MAN.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
It only ever happens in the UK, the first few flakes of snow land on the ground and the UK grinds to halt.

The weather system has pushed in from the east and our continential cousins didn't manage to cope with the snow either.

CDG and BRU where closed with lots of flights cancelled. It actually looks like all of AF's and SN's first flights from the UK to CDG and BRU are cancelled

[Edited 2009-12-17 17:31:30]

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5294 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9329 times:

AMS had 20/30cm all day and stayed open and had no delays. I guess it also depends on airport management and the use of ground equipment.

User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9252 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
AMS had 20/30cm all day and stayed open and had no delays.

Again, Amsterdam has plenty of runways that can be used while others are cleared. No London airport has that luxury.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 10):
You can just hand a plow in front of a truck or tractor. Or they can do what my town does: contract with the local farmers to come plow the roads with their tractors when it snows. There's not much farming going on in the Winter and they're willing and able to make a few extra bucks during what must be a very slow time of the year for them.

We don't get that much snow even when it does fall, and the roads tend to be cleared by the cars themselves. With regards to the roads, it is the ice that is the problem. Barely anybody in England will have winter tyres installed, and many have little experience of driving in snow/icy conditions. Lack of grit is usually the biggest problem with the UK's roads in the winter.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9218 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
AMS had 20/30cm all day and stayed open and had no delays.

So BA396 and BA404 (both LHR-BRU) were diverted to AMS as BRU (as well as CDG) were closed by the snow for a period on 17 December.

So that is another nail in the coffin of the theory that snow only impacts UK airports.


User currently offlineMkorpal From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 90 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9175 times:

How much snow are we talking about?

User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9161 times:

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 19):
How much snow are we talking about?

According to news reports the snow in the northern netherlands is up to 25cm deep

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ALeqM5j-cdxg7j9FEwkqKSNTEBbp_ynfHg

and as the report says the worst is yet to come.

[Edited 2009-12-17 19:03:34]

User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9113 times:

I live the other side of the Chiltern hills at High Wycombe. Looking out the window, I have around 10cm deep sitting on my garden table at 4am.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/public/air.shtml

flights arriving at and departing from London Luton Airport are currently suspended until 07:00 this morning.

Heathrow, Edinburgh and Gatwick all reporting disruption but not closure.

http://www.heathrowcam.net/liveradar.php
A Monarch B752 MON6815 got down to 3000 on the Gatwick approach, broke off and is now headed north along the M40 at FL160 (Birmingham diversion???)

[Edited 2009-12-17 20:10:48]

User currently offlineEvomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9106 times:



Quoting ACW367 (Reply 21):
I live the other side of the Chiltern hills at High Wycombe. Looking out the window, I have around 10cm deep sitting on my garden table at 4am.

It's a very narrow band then. There is nothing 20 miles away here in Oxford. The odd flake in the sky but nothing on the ground.


User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9092 times:

For LGW it may also be a crosswind issue. The METAR gives 020 degrees 16 gusting 27kts. With a basically east/west runway and drifting snow, the north/south runway at BHX would be a more attractive option.

User currently offlineACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

Flights have started landing at both LHR (27L) and STN.

[Edited 2009-12-17 20:45:22]

User currently offlineEICVD From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8924 times:

Im here in DUB waiting for my flight to LHR (BD122). The inbound flight has a delay of 40 mins according to the DAA website. An EI flight to LHR has just been cancelled.

25 PietPiloot : That is a bit exaggerated, we had only a little bit of snow during the afternoon and evening, less than 1 cm. Most snow fell in the northern part of
26 LHR380 : LTN is closed until 1000, LGW only opened at 0730, LHR seems ok, but there are delays of up to 2 hours on some flights.
27 LHR27C : 09R at LHR closed at 10.00, with single runway operations on 09L. Incidentally the BA A318 from JFK diverted into LHR this morning as LCY was shut.
28 Gabrielchew : I live about 10 miles from LTN, and this morning there was nearly a foot of snow on the pavement outside my house. I got the train into London for wor
29 Olle : As I mentioned yesterday it is not only UK that has problem... Stockholm Bromma (#4 most big airport in Sweden) closed for at least one hour.... And w
30 Post contains links Olle : http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=536935078&filename=phpzTHnFa.jpeg How I got home... With the help of the lord!
31 Post contains images Noelg : Absolutely incredible how we come to such a halt after a light dusting of snow. Who knows how we'd cope if we had Norwegian or American/Canadian weath
32 Planesarecool : What are easyJet trying to achieve by cancelling all flights before 11am from Gatwick (with the exception of a Lapland charter flight, which departed
33 Vc10 : Here we go again all these very knowledgeable Brits going off about "it only happens here in the UK" , when in my experience it happens all over the w
34 Lukeyboy95 : witty... took me a while to see it. at least it wasn't in your toast or anything. I certainly agree with this... my friend who was moaning about in a
35 Dangould2000 : At PIK, FR crews are being called in to take our spare aircraft down to LTN to operate flights from there, this is being done for the next 2-3 days, i
36 Raaadek : My 10am flight LX461 from LCY to ZHR got canceled (I had a connecting flight from ZRH to WAW), There were about 100 people waiting in each queue tryin
37 AirCatalonia : It's snowing at GRO. LEGE 181830Z 36006KT 7000 -SN FEW025 BKN030 03/M00 Q1003 I don't know what's the deicing equipment here, but I would expect big t
38 Post contains links VV701 : Apparently four Eurostar trains travelling to London broke down in the Channel Tunnel early this morning because of the weather: http://uk.news.yahoo.
39 EZYAirbus : I notice LY213 TLV-LTN diverted to AMS on Friday morning! Could no UK airport handle this flight?
40 AirNz : Okay, so what in your experience would be the best way of dealing with it to ensure it doesn't happen? Excellent post, and everything very well said.
41 BestWestern : Its the usual problem of the cost of snow equipment vs the cost of the departures tax. An airport can have a thousand snow blowers waiting for two ye
42 Evomutant : Yes to both. YYC goes weeks at a time without getting above freezing. We have a couple of huge snowstorms a year. You'd think we would be able to han
43 BestWestern : Dont you know - we like to blame the Government, and Bankers bonuses for everything. And when the government and bankers bonuses conspire to make sno
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