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OpenSkies Moving To EWR Eff Jan 4  
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5869 times:

"OpenSkies switches flights to Newark

BA's all-business transatlantic subsidiary OpenSkies is switching its current New York JFK service to Newark from January 4.

OpenSkies operates twice-daily flights between Paris Orly and New York. With this change, both flights will serve New York's Newark Liberty Airport.

The airline promises that customer will continue to experience the same exceptional service, comfort, quality and cost conscious fares that have become synonymous with the brand."

Source: BA intranet

I suppose the third party that handles L'avion will handle Openskies, but perhaps someone can confirm this?


...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJpiddink From Netherlands, joined Feb 2009, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5844 times:

Not only posted on intranet, the ba.com booking module also confirms this information.

Curious, from a marketing point of view it would have made sense to give priority to move the LCY-flights to EWR over the OpenSkies flights. I guess that in the end (as discussed earlier on a.net) BA wanted to keep the ground services for the LCY-flights in their own hands indeed.


User currently offlineOllieg84 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5634 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
I suppose the third party that handles L'avion will handle Openskies, but perhaps someone can confirm this?

L'Avion and OpenSkies have been one airline for some time now, operating daily flights to both JFK and EWR under the EC code. WFS, who originally handled L'Avion continues to handle OpenSkies in EWR.


User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

Does this have to do with BA recently announcing that it is no longer selling OpenSkies tickets? Just curious.

What a mess this experiment by BA turned into. I was under the impression when this started that they would be flying P2P routes from major cities in Europe to major cities in the US. Instead, the whole thing never really left the ground. The business only model seems to have a tough time working transatlantic when you put it on anything bigger than a 737/320 sized airplane.
Would the OpenSkies plan have worked better if they put a regular 757 on the Paris/Brussels (and other planned routes)? Less yield per seat, but more seats to get yield from?

Pilot PJ


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5314 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 3):
Would the OpenSkies plan have worked better if they put a regular 757 on the Paris/Brussels (and other planned routes)? Less yield per seat, but more seats to get yield from?

Why would they do this? It would just be BA then.

Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 3):
the whole thing never really left the ground.

Yeah it really didn't fly for people.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17365 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5276 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 3):
The business only model seems to have a tough time working transatlantic when you put it on anything bigger than a 737/320 sized airplane.

Point to point all business does not work. End of story. All business only works to a high yield destination with a major hub with loyal frequent flyers on at least one end. That's why LCY has been a success but ORY, and everything else, has not.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Wondering why BA would move these flights to EWR. They are much bigger at JFK,


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User currently offlineOllieg84 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4969 times:



Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 3):
I was under the impression when this started that they would be flying P2P routes from major cities in Europe to major cities in the US

This was the original business plan presented to the BA board, by the then OpenSkies. Due to the subsequent 'reverse takeover' by L'Avion, during which BA management was replaced by original L'Avion managment, the business strategy changed, focusing on flights ex-ORY. Look at AMS for example, poor load factors lead to route suspension.

Quoting Brilondon (Reply 4):
Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 3):
the whole thing never really left the ground.

Yeah it really didn't fly for people.

The load factors ex-ORY are more than sufficient, hence the reason BA has chosen to reinvest, and hence the reason EC is making money in the current climate...

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 6):
Wondering why BA would move these flights to EWR. They are much bigger at JFK,

Don't forget that EC is a subsidiary of BA, and all decisions are made internally at EC. It would most likely not have been a BA decision. EWR is the original route that L'Avion operated from ORY, and costs are lower than at JFK.


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Good news!! In the past 2 years after losing QR and MH im glad EWR will see 2 Openskies a/c and hopefully TG. It can be a little boring to see CO all time no matter how good they are Big grin

User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3463 times:
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Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 6):
Wondering why BA would move these flights to EWR. They are much bigger at JFK,


Beyond the lower costs as noted above, EWR is also closer to the financial district than JFK.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineEvomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3446 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Point to point all business does not work. End of story. All business only works to a high yield destination with a major hub with loyal frequent flyers on at least one end. That's why LCY has been a success but ORY, and everything else, has not.

Isn't LCY-JFK almost entirely O&D? Certainly, LCY is hardly a major hub for BA, and I doubt AA are funneling much traffic onto that flight at JFK.


User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2911 times:



Quoting Evomutant (Reply 10):
Isn't LCY-JFK almost entirely O&D? Certainly, LCY is hardly a major hub for BA, and I doubt AA are funneling much traffic onto that flight at JFK.

The LCY services, will I think, remain at JFK, for one big reason........the security of frequent LHR flights, giving the business traveller flexibility if meetings overrun etc & BA the advantage of an easy/cheaper back up plan if one of the A318s has tech problems.



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User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

Does anyone know if the EC EWR operation will be flown with the ex-EC aircraft or the ex-A0 aircraft?


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineCOEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2768 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 8):
In the past 2 years after losing QR

Would they ever return to EWR with CO joining Star Alliance?



Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
User currently offlineJfkgaylga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

"Beyond the lower costs as noted above, EWR is also closer to the financial district than JFK."

I don't want to get into a whole JFK vs EWR thing on here again, but let's just say that given time of day and/or traffic conditions, it really is a toss up. It's not enough to justify moving the flight from one airport to the other. I would imagine costs of using JFK and EWR are similar given they are both slot-controlled, high-demand airports run by the same agency.

This has more to do with their costs I'd imagine. If they consolidate to EWR (or JFK for that matter) it probably saves a little money and give 2 freqs a day to the business traveler. Their business plan hasn't proved viable.

This reminds me of when Indy Air scrapped 14 freq a day to both JFK and EWR and started 2 flights a day to LGA. They didn't even bother to put a sign up at the ticket counter. I'm not saying OpenSkies is in the same boat as Indy, although I wouldn't dismiss that notion either.

Pilot PJ


User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2722 times:



Quoting COEWR2587 (Reply 13):
Would they ever return to EWR with CO joining Star Alliance?

Who knows, I don't believe QR is joining STAR in the near future are they?


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16825 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 6):
Wondering why BA would move these flights to EWR. They are much bigger at JFK,

I think it has to do with their target customers, business travelers.

Quoting Jfkgaylga (Reply 14):
I don't want to get into a whole JFK vs EWR thing on here again, but let's just say that given time of day and/or traffic conditions, it really is a toss up.

Not to Lower Manhattan, it's much closer and easier ride into Lower Manhattan from EWR than JFK. You can take the Pulaski Skyway or the Newark Bay extension of the Turnpike right into the Holland Tunnel.

EWR-World Trade Center via Pulaski Skyway=25 minute drive

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=40....&q2=World%20Trade%20Center%2C%20NY

[Edited 2009-12-19 08:02:58]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCOEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2693 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 15):
Who knows, I don't believe QR is joining STAR in the near future are they?

I know they code share with a bunch of Star Alliance airlines



Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
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