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Some New Observations Of IAD  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

The new security checkpoint is GREAT! It is really nice to walk around the entire check-in area without the TSA mess....The new checkpoint has plenty of stations, and the walk from there to the train (though it is not open yet) looks to be quite short.

My flight was from Concourse D and I had some spare time so I walked the length of the entire Concourse C/D. There was a REALLY old looking F/A boarding the United flight to NRT...It was very cool/weird seeing the old TWA, American, and British Airways gate areas....You could clearly see the old TWA stripe on the gate counters! The mens room across from Gate D15 seemed to even be in old TWA colors (not sure if this was just random though).

I don't mind Concourse C/D so much. Having said that, United needs to start thinking about a long-term replacement. The facility has the feel of jetBlue's temporary terminal at JFK that they built while construction of T5 was going on--except that facility was only open for about two years. This one is home to United's Dulles Hub! It is not in great shape...

Dulles is going to be a world class airport soon, especially once the Silver Line metro opens. Concourse C/D will remain the only major negative aspect of the airport....

I understand that times are tough and United can't be expected to finance a multi-billion dollar construction project by itself, so MWAA should step up here....Build a great new concourse and extend the aeroTrain tunnel to pass where Concourse D currently is. Make it officially multi-use if they have to in order to justify paying for it. But a few years from now, IAD is going to be out of things that need improvement except for Concourse C/D so I think it will have to get dealt with eventually!

I look forward to hearing thoughts on this topic!

[Edited 2009-12-18 12:22:57]

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3254 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The new security checkpoint is GREAT! It is really nice to walk around the entire check-in area without the TSA mess....The new checkpoint has plenty of stations, and the walk from there to the train (though it is not open yet) looks to be quite short.

 checkmark 

It does make IAD feel even more like Disney World, though.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
I don't mind Concourse C/D so much.

Nor do I - but the contrast with B, which is one of the nicest concourses on the east coast, is quite stark.

If they could finance B with the relatively low level of utilization there, I see no reason why IAD cannot/should not finance a similar renewal of C/D. A also needs help, though it is serviceable.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

I travel from IAD on Monday. First time using the new checkpoint. I appreciated the very clear permanent signage for premium passengers. Was so quick and smooth - even with only 3 screening points open (it was 5:10am).

C/D are in need of improvement, but I wonder if the average passenger cares. Does anyone really choose the airport based on beauty (besides those of us on A.net)?



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlinePanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Not too many of us will be driving out to IAD today (Sat. 19), what with the snow, but the main terminal, what with the recent changes, is worth seeing in any weather.

To me, Concourse D is and always will be the ashes of the late-Presidential Airways. Whenever I have to use D on UA, I sort of feel like I'm being treated as a second-class customer like, you're not good enough for C. Yes, irrational, and finding much of anything to like about UA is becoming more and more difficult every day. Whatever!

C isn't all that bad, particularly when you compare it with anything UA's using at a prime airport like LAX. Now that place is really depressing!

OK, back to the blizzard! To think, given the temperatures we've had and likely will have, we may even have a White Christmas!


User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

I've started flying in/out of IAD a bit more headed to my corporate office near RIC and I gotta say C is a pretty cramped and severely dated concourse. It's neat to be there around 3-4pm in the day when all of the Europeans are running around talking their various dialects, but the whole place seems very 1970's. Very tight, crowded, old facilities, etc.

But I do really like Vino Volo near C3 - that's a cool little spot to get a glass of good wine and relax.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2456 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
but the contrast with B, which is one of the nicest concourses on the east coast, is quite stark.

Indeed. B is lovely.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
If they could finance B with the relatively low level of utilization there, I see no reason why IAD cannot/should not finance a similar renewal of C/D

Agree. Eventually MWAA is going to have to deal with C/D because I don't think United can handle a replacement on their own.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
A also needs help, though it is serviceable.

If MWAA built out a full concourse C/D replacement, Concourse A could be closed or reserved for LCCs, and United's entire operation could be in one concourse.

Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 2):

C/D are in need of improvement, but I wonder if the average passenger cares. Does anyone really choose the airport based on beauty (besides those of us on A.net)?

Fair point. I don't think your average passenger books based on what Concourse they will be flying out of. However, it surely sets a bad example for United once passengers have to fly from there, use the facilities, etc. Especially when compared with the other East Coast hubs, it is lacking. Delta's T3 at JFK is probably in better shape than Concourse C/D at IAD!

The amazing thing is that if United/MWAA built a new Concourse and closed down C/D and A, IAD would be hands-down one of the nicest and best airports in the country!

Quoting Panova98 (Reply 3):
Now that place is really depressing!

Isn't all of LAX kind of like that? Similiar to BOS Terminal C?

Quoting Bartond (Reply 4):
very 1970's

I love that feel for nostalgic reasons, as I do in certain other old terminals, but there comes a time for replacement...


User currently offlineCmk10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

I flew RDU-IAD-DEN on November 30th.

Due to ATC/Weather we had a 30 minute, then a one hour, then a 90 minute ground hold at RDU. I misconnected and was protected on a later flight that I had to sprint for. Of course the connection was D20 to C4 and of course, it was at IAD. This meant that for a walk that has to be at least a mile, there wasn't a single moving walkway or any way to speed up my trip. Also, as IAD is so narrow and overcrowded, I was constantly dodging people trying to make the flight.

I hate IAD, it ranks on my bottom 5 airports and unless C/D is buldozed I don't think I'll ever be able to utter "I don't mind Concourses C/D".



"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Thank you, RJPieces, and everyone, for your observations. I live in Northeast DC and use BWI and DCA for most of my flying because IAD is very inconvenient from where I am. But I do use IAD now and then.

Haven't been there since the new security checkpoint opened, have heard it's really nice. I actually never had trouble with the old checkpoints, even at rush hour--just allowed 20 minutes or so for getting through security. But this will open up more of the Saarinen building's departure level and ease circuation.

UA probably won't be pushing for a C/D replacement anytime soon due to cost. MWAA would indeed need to take the lead, but UA would be the one paying the fees, and I doubt MWAA would do anything UA wouldn't want. C/D doesn't seem to be preventing people from using IAD as an international hub, ratty as it is. I'm surprised the LCC's are all in shiny A/B. Wouldn't rents be lower in C/D? UA doesn't use all of C/D. Most of A is useless to LCC's--a one-story purpose-built building for regional a/c. I suppose UA could consolidate its regional operations at C/D, but the moon buggies run pretty regularly and connections don't seem to be a problem. The trains will be even faster.

Still would like to see a two-or-three story garage in the parking bowl. I used the close long-term garage, the one with the walkway to the terminal, this summer. It's great if you're flying DL like I was, but a *haul* on foot if you're flying UA. IAD needs a regular, front-facing garage. Three stories would still preserve the all-important view of Saarinen's terminal and offer *much* better customer service.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2328 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
UA doesn't use all of C/D.

During the peak international push, UA comes pretty close to maxing out C/D. There would be little room for the LCC's.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
I'm surprised the LCC's are all in shiny A/B.

They don't really have a choice. UA wants all of its international/mainline ops (plus some regional) in one concourse. Only C/D can accomodate all of it.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
Three stories would still preserve the all-important view of Saarinen's terminal and offer *much* better customer service.

Agreed....the lack of up close parking is pathetic.

I would also like to see the Z gate extended linearly along the whole frontage of the terminal. Once the moon buggies are mostly gone, I think it could be done and would create some nice close-in gates for the more O+D centric airlines.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
A also needs help, though it is serviceable.

Serviceable is a nice way of putting it. Frankly, I find A worse than C/D. There's simply too many RJ flights being pushed out of the same gates and seating/amenities are poor at best. Unfortunately, I expect C/D and A to all be with us for another decade.


User currently offlineSRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2319 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
A also needs help, though it is serviceable



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
surprised the LCC's are all in shiny A/B.

I would rank A lower that C/D. A is overcrowded, lacking good amenities (there is a Five Guys, but with a perpetually long line), and simply a dump. I think it needs a complete re-do into a modern, efficient, commuter terminal. Also, UA needs to stop doing things like boarding flights to Charelson, WV (CRW) and Charelston, SC (CHS) from the same gate.

Also, A is an elevator, a mobile lounge station, and a short bridge away from B. It's a bit of a treck into B if you are flying out of A, and you are guaranteed to miss all the PA announcements as to why your flight to JFK/EWR/LGA is being delayed (again) for another 2 hours if you head over to B. Simply because A is connected to B doesn't make it any better than C/D


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2309 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):

Dulles is going to be a world class airport soon, especially once the Silver Line metro opens.

Agreed. I'd like to ride the Silver Line out to IAD someday, but hopefully by the time they get that up and running I'll be back in Oklahoma where I belong.

I don't use IAD very much, but I'm hoping to take an international trip next spring on UA. It'll be nice to have a non-stop and skip the connection at ORD or JFK.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

Simply because A is connected to B doesn't make it any better than C/D

I just checked the IAD website, and see that the A designation ends with the one-story regional facility you describe. I thought it extended to some of the nicer two-story building, but that building is designated entirely as B. Sorry for the error.

The A facility is indeed poorer quality. Other airports, like PHL and CLT, have much better regional-aircraft facilities.

FlyPNS1--I too would like to see the Z gates extended all along the front of the landside building. I don't know what Z looks like inside, having not been in it, but its location is certainly highly desirable. I wonder how US got those gates. I remember that they were in the old Z-location concourse, but would that matter?

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21554 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2179 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Having said that, United needs to start thinking about a long-term replacement.

The design is there - they just have to build the damn thing.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2125 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
UA probably won't be pushing for a C/D replacement anytime soon due to cost

About three years ago, UA finally came to an agreement with MWAA that UA will occupy the new C/D replacement concourse. At that time, it was said it would take at least 7 years before it would be open. I guess the agreement still stands but it may have been pushed farther into the future.

So, UA will be in a new councourse to be built eventually.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineIadbudd From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

UA and MWAA will not be building a new terminal for at least 10 more years, Plans already are in place for it and the new aerotrain stop for the C terminal is actually at the new location, that is why people riding the new train to C have to take a walk back tunnel under taxiway E to the C terminal after getting off the train. The Eastern half of the B terminal will actually be re-numbered as an A gate to make the traffic flow easier between the two B train stations. Another reason UA stays in the C is the FIS customs facility they use for their connecting pax, and plans are being made to expand it further into the C terminal.

User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1933 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):


Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
UA doesn't use all of C/D.

During the peak international push, UA comes pretty close to maxing out C/D. There would be little room for the LCC's.

Not sure of the details of the lease agreement UA has with MWAA, but I know most of the costs associated with the C/D Concourses are left to UA - jetbridge maintenance, snow removal, etc - and MWAA does not control what UA does there. Ethiopian is the only airline other than UA operating out of the C/D Concourses, and would probably move to B if a gate was available and they didn't care about cost.

The AeroTrain station was built according to the airport's master plan, which currently includes a duplicate of the B Concourse between the current C/D Concourses and the R-gates (which is why the station is not built into the existing C/D Concourses) and the C/D Concourses would be demolished and taxilanes expanded. The master plan also includes a 6th runway which would parallel 12/30 - want to make bets on which will be built first?

I think the C/D Concourse serves its purpose...not stylish but it gets the job done. Walking the length of the concourse can be a hike and the concourse is very narrow, but passengers come and go without incident.

UA wouldn't move to Concourse B or the LCCs move to C/D because UA has their customs facility at the end of C (FIS) so moving would make sense for either.

Extending the Z gates would be a great idea after the AeroTrain is up and running next month. The mobile lounges will still be in use for the international arrivals and charters, however they will not need to depart from the main terminal as they do now, so this may be a good project in the future.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1696 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 7):
I actually never had trouble with the old checkpoints, even at rush hour--just allowed 20 minutes or so for getting through security.

I never did either. It was just so cluttered and felt inefficient since so many lines were overlapping. It is a lot more simplified now.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately, I expect C/D and A to all be with us for another decade.

I hope not....I hope that it will at least be open by January 1, 2020!!

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
The design is there - they just have to build the damn thing.

It would probably be a different design when it does get built. That design will be nearly 20 years old, no?

Quoting The777Man (Reply 13):
At that time, it was said it would take at least 7 years before it would be open.

Which would mean 4 years from now...Seems unlikely unfortunately.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1620 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 16):
Which would mean 4 years from now...Seems unlikely unfortunately.



Quoting The777Man (Reply 13):
I guess the agreement still stands but it may have been pushed farther into the future.

The information I had was three years old; things change, like I also mentioned. See above.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
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