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12/15/85 Northwest Orient Flight Question  
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Hello.

A little mystery ... My mom came across a scrapbook where she saved her old ticket stubs from past travels. One of them was for NW 739, a 727-200 flight from ORD to CLE in December 1985. It left at 3:15 p.m. and arrived at 5:18 p.m.

Of course, I had to look at the flight in the Northwest Orient Timetable from 12/18/85. To my surprise ... it showed the flight as a meal flight. I then looked at the OAG, but that showed the flight as only a beverage flight. So which source do I believe?

I asked my parents, but they could not remember details of that flight, though they do remember getting a full breakfast on a 747 between Chicago and Minneapolis at that time ... so who knows?

Thanks.

TWA1985

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

I would say meal flight, but that is just my educated guess. NWO served meals on short hauls at the time, DTW-ORD, ORD-MSP, MSP-MKE etc. DTW-YYZ was a meal flight at one time too, on the 757 to boot!

User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3169 times:



Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 1):
NWO served meals on short hauls at the time

Yes, I would say one of the better examples is the MSN-ORD flight. The timetable lists flight 750 as a snack flight. It left MSN at 7:30 a.m. and arrived ORD at 8:07 a.m. (37 Minutes gate to gate) ... what does that mean, about 15 to 20 minutes in the air. How on earth could they pull that off?


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3125 times:
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Unheard of nowadays for a lot of reasons, but most airlines in those days served some type food and beverage service on short segments depending on time of day, particularly on morning flights to present a "breakfast" type meal, and in the late afternoon or evening for a "dinner" type service.
One service I participated in was PI's flight 33, a Boeing 737 service LGA-IAD that departed at 5:15pm. A full hot meal, with beverages, was served between LGA and IAD. It was quite a hustle on Fri and Sun nights when the flight was full.....94 seats and 2 F/A's.
It brought back memories to a trip I made on DL in 1965 going home on military leave. A Convair 440 service ATL-MCN-SAV. A hot breakfast was served between ATL and MCN, including coffee or orange juice, by one lone F/A in less than 30 mins to an almost full load of 44 passengers. Best tasting food I'd eaten in 3 months!
Thomas
P.S. DL was famous for its scrambled eggs breakfast.



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3064 times:



Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 3):
A full hot meal, with beverages, was served between LGA and IAD. It was quite a hustle on Fri and Sun nights when the flight was full.....94 seats and 2 F/A's.

Amazing! I can't imagine some of todays flight attendants doing that service ... they would not know what hit them. Flight attendants from that era must have really loved what they were doing - it seemed like hard work.


User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Any crew members on here that worked for NWO back in the 80's that could assist?

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

I worked for NW at CLE years ago and we served a full breakfast on our morning originators to ORD and MDW, a snack on the early evening to ORD....and a full dinner on the 7 15PM to MSP.
I was on the morning 727-200 CLE-ORD as a pax in 82 and was served a full breakfast.

Turn the clock back further and UA served a dinner from Detroit to CLE on a 6B.
(source....OAG and UA scheds).
Block to block times were quicker than the flights today between CLE and DTW.
Now thats a neat trick.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5552 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2861 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
Turn the clock back further and UA served a dinner from Detroit to CLE on a 6B.
(source....OAG and UA scheds).

I believe UA's DC-6B's seated 64 and this flight probably operated at a 60% load factor or less. The meals were all on one tray and there was no choice or reheating involved, with the possible exception of an occasional kosher meal. Pulling 36 trays out of a hot box and delivering them couldn't have taken much more than 10 minutes including pouring the "coffee, tea, or milk."



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2815 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
I worked for NW at CLE years ago and we served a full breakfast on our morning originators to ORD and MDW, a snack on the early evening to ORD....and a full dinner on the 7 15PM to MSP.

Sounds like hard work ... were you a flight attendant based at CLE? How many years were you there?

Also, what are your thoughts on the NWO Timetable vs. OAG in terms of what was served on the ORD-CLE flight?

Thanks.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

I was an agent but knew which flights had the full meals, snacks or peanuts.
On the morning flights, I had to make sure along with the head F.A., there was enough meals and crew meals on the flight for the pax and three guys up front(727's...no diesal nines).
Gate agents co-orgianated with the head F.A. on what they needed for catering. Number one
item was ice.Flights were always low on ice.
Most NW flights at that time were thru flights but we did have three or four morning originators, depending on the time of year, mostly three. NW had 28 to 36 departures a day but the 36 was short lived due to an agent strike in July of 70. After the strike was settled, CLE was never the same with employees or flights...we were down to 18-22 departures a day in the fall of 71.
Our number one competitor was UA. Whereever NW went from CLE, so did UA except non stop to Minnie. That was NW and NW only at that time. There was no BN or CO and DL started into CLE I think late 70 or sometime in 71 to ATL(where else?), but Im not sure on that.
UA and EA did fly CLE-ATL at that time.

I thought the NW scheds were more accurate than the OAG but I don't knock the OAG. It was a good book.
On same subject some of the NW dinosaurs that worked the counters in the late 70's remember the NW OAG instead of the real OAG. NW had a publishing company print a NW OAG so the company didnt have to buy umteen hundred regular OAGs for the system.
I still have a few in my OAG and airline sched collection.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2706 times:



Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 4):
Amazing! I can't imagine some of todays flight attendants doing that service ... they would not know what hit them. Flight attendants from that era must have really loved what they were doing - it seemed like hard work.

Many of those flight attendants still proudly and graciously serve the skies today!!!

It's not the flight attendants who have changed in the firts place. It's the world and the industry. If the industry, the environment, the society, the world... etc. wouldn't have changed so much, todays FA's would still be serving meals on short flights.

It's our environment that usually has a great impact on us and our daily lives!!!

They'd still be capable of doing so...

The industry has changed...

In some ways for the good, in some for the bad...

Remember that 20, 30, 40 years ago the airline industry was totally different... the worlds economy was different. Airline operations and pricing were different. Sure there were snacks and meals offered on shorter flights, but you usually had to pay more for your travels.

On the other hand... 20 years ago there was no onboard internet, no PTV's, no online check-in, no cheap online fares, no (real) LCC as we know them today... supply and demand is all I can say!

Also the world was different back then... already a fast moving business world, but definitely not as fast moving as today... how many of todays business travellers would actually have time to eat a full meal on a 30-45 minute flight? The majority is working on their laptops... some even skipping the drinks... A flight between point A and B, between business meetings is rarely a break anymore but considered useful time...

It seems as today we're trying to bypass ourselves... bigger, better, faster, more revenue, less costs... etc...

Best regards

L1011Lover


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
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MasseyBrown. Invite 36 people over to your home. Prepare their meals in advance. Serve them all their dinner, and their choice of "coffee, tea or milk" in 10 minutes, since you've discovered a way to make the floor you are standing or walking on to move and heave about from time-to-time, while keeping a smile on your face, your tie neatly in place since you won't be wearing an apron - but do offer a martini (Martini's are a big deal ) - as you provide them ample opportunity to eat your delicious feast (Swis Steak, Mashed Potatoes and Peas, roll, butter, and cake) and then graciously pick up those 36 food service items, stow them neatly in your kitchen, double check your guests are comfortable and thank them for coming by as you bid them farewell at the door, all of this occurring in just 40 minutes. Repeat several times throughout the day.
Maybe you can analyze and create a project to determine how to do it just as well when as many as 64 people come to dinner......



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5552 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

I never said it was a day at the beach, PI4, but the service was routinely provided, aided by the fact drink service was very limited compared to today and there was never an onboard choice of meal except on much longer flights.

What I also remember about those days was how frequently there would be a uniformed FA commuting who would offer to help out. I haven't seen that in a long time.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2497 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12):
, but the service was routinely provided, aided by the fact drink service was very limited compared to today and there was never an onboard choice of meal except on much longer flights.

M.B.,, FYI, the record number of drinks consumed by a pax in F between CLE and DTW is three..... held by a host of people including yours truly.
Done on 727-100, 727-200 and B720B all in 1970.
About the meal, if the 6B was 40-45minutes gate to gate, wheels up to touchdown was apx 28 minutes....727 was anywhere from 18 to 24 minutes all at night after 9pm...most was a 22 minute plane ride. I have a few of them banked on my personnal flight log.
 drunk   devil  safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5552 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2495 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 13):
M.B.,, FYI, the record number of drinks consumed by a pax in F between CLE and DTW is three..... held by a host of people including yours truly.

 Smile Tell me, do you remember Detroit?



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2485 times:
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MasseyBrown:
My apologies for a rather smarta** response to your posting. I was a bit overzealous in relating some of my own experiences from the "old" days, so the smart aleck aspect of my response was not necessary.
It was drilled in us to "make our passengers feel they are a guest in your home" which sounds great in a classroom. Typically, transfer that to reality and I am afraid some of my guests might have reconsidered my invitation. I never minded the hustle because it helped make a 6 or 8 leg day go by quickly, and as you pointed out, many times accomplished by a deadheading associate who helped out. I always looked around on every flight to help repay the favor.
I wanted my passengers to love their flight experience, my airline and hopefully think well of me and my teammates. I took my job very seriously and I was rewarded with a 31 year career in a business I loved. I remain as passionate today about this crazy business as when I started as a daring young man in the flying machine.....
Thomas



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5552 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2471 times:



Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 15):
My apologies for a ...

None required; you were making a valid point. It's too easy to forget how hard hard-working people actually do work when they typically make it look so easy.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Gotta miss these days.

I always did enjoy the egg thing on UA in the mornings. Not sure what is was, but it was good. With a little thing of fruit, good to go.

Oh Ya, and the service was wonderful.



You mad Bro???
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