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AF460 / 20 DEC Back To CDG Due To "bad Weather"?  
User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Posted (5 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Here is what the AF website mentions for AF 460 CDG-CCS: / Dec 20th

“Flight left from Paris (CDG) at 12:19 Sun 20 Dec 09
Returns from Paris (CDG) at 13:57 Sun 20 Dec 09 (in the French version it is “Retour sur Paris”=“Returns TO Paris”, I guess having the English version correctly translated could be possible without extreme efforts ?)
Flight left from Paris (CDG) at 14:34 Sun 20 Dec 09
Scheduled arrival in Caracas (CCS) at 18:37, Sun 20 Dec 09
Due to adverse weather conditions, flight AF460 has returned to Paris.”

While I can understand the original delay (normal departure time is 10:40) is due to the snow in CDG (or, to be more realistic, to the usual inefficiency of Aéroports de Paris, because the quantity of snow was nothing extraordinary), I have difficulties understanding the rest.

Why would the flight turn back to Paris after more than 90 minutes ? And how could it take off again 40 minutes after landing, when it obviously needs to refuel ?

Do we have to understand that in reality it never took off , and so left Paris at 14:34, 4 hours behind schedule ? If this is the case my sentence above regarding Aéroports de Paris is really an understatement !


Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3552 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5525 times:
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Just a wild guess from my part.

The plane left the gate at 12.19, went for deicing then for a reason or another returned to the gate. It never took off.



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User currently offlineLatinAviation From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1279 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

I just arrived in BOG on AF. The Caracas flight was next to us and we were all basically delayed the same amount of time awaiting de-icing, etc. Unless they had a different routing, the flight to BOG was fine.

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Could this have anything to do with the flight pattern bringing AF460 in the direct path of the big Nor'easter in the US therefore making it unsafe to fly especially considering the recent AF crash?


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User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4919 times:



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
Just a wild guess from my part.

The plane left the gate at 12.19, went for deicing then for a reason or another returned to the gate. It never took off.

this is most likely the correct explanation... if a plane returns to the gate at CDG, AF's website shows that as "return to Paris", regardless from if the plane has ever left the ground or not. My then girl-friend (now wife  Smile) and me experienced that once when a flight she took had to return to the gate and I got that message "returned to Paris" from the website. In this special case I assume that something like burning too much fuel while waiting for take-off happened...

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 3):
Could this have anything to do with the flight pattern bringing AF460 in the direct path of the big Nor'easter in the US therefore making it unsafe to fly especially considering the recent AF crash?

No.

Keep in mind that a snow storm, even if big, will hardly be noticed at cruise level (apart from looking at the clouds from above). It is the thunderstorms that cause the headaches...



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User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4859 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 4):
this is most likely the correct explanation... if a plane returns to the gate at CDG, AF's website shows that as "return to Paris", regardless from if the plane has ever left the ground or not. My then girl-friend (now wife Smile) and me experienced that once when a flight she took had to return to the gate and I got that message "returned to Paris" from the website. In this special case I assume that something like burning too much fuel while waiting for take-off happened...

This makes sense.

So we have a confirmation of the total inefficiency of Aéroports de Paris, once again.

Last January there was exactly the same situation, with a total disorganisation of flight during some days, at the beginning of January. The Transport minister asked for “a report”. Apparently they did nothing to be better prepared this year.

This time the DGAC (FAA equivalent) cancelled flights in advance when snow was announced, but even with these flights cancelled ADP can not cope!

Will we hear from the (same) Transport minister? This time he asks for a report on Eurostar (the Eurostar traffic is stopped due to problems with the rolling stock), it would be good that he checked if what he did last year has had any effect on the situation in airports this year …



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineVal747 From France, joined Aug 2009, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Hi.

The flight left the gate on time approximately but had to return to the gate because of a sick passenger, then with the de icing and all the holding time on twy, they had to refuel a bit before take off, that's why all the waiting.


User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4581 times:



Quoting Val747 (Reply 6):
The flight left the gate on time approximately but had to return to the gate because of a sick passenger,

Thanks for the info.

The website times and mentions are really confusing, they should give the time for leaving the gate, then taking off, this would give a better understanding of things for people interested (and those not interested do not even know they can get this kind of information anyway !).



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4555 times:



Quoting TGV (Reply 5):
So we have a confirmation of the total inefficiency of Aéroports de Paris, once again

Although many airports, including ADP, could improve very significantly, I don't think ADP can be singled out here. DUS and MAN were closed as a couple threads have reported here, and a few hours delay during sub-optimal conditions, although frustrating, are not abnormal.


User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4214 times:



Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 8):
and a few hours delay during sub-optimal conditions, although frustrating, are not abnormal.

I understand what you say, but I think the problem is that they give the impression of a total lack of preparation.

I had the “pleasure” of arriving in CDG in January this year, when there was also 3 cm of snow, and CDG was a total mess (flight landed 3 hour late due to the delay of the previous day when leaving CDG, but then I needed 3 hours 40 between landing and getting my suitcase).

It seems that one year later, they have not improved anything (except cancelling flights in advance, but this was not ADP, but the DGAC…).



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
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