Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
How Will AA Allocate Seats In Their 787s?  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4408 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

Will they use the entire cabin between doors 1 and 2 for First Class, and they use half of the next cabin for business and the rest for coach (which is how they have their 777s arranged)?

Will the Flagship Suite be installed?

Anybody know... or have any ideas?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4969 times:



Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
Will they use the entire cabin between doors 1 and 2 for First Class, and they use half of the next cabin for business and the rest for coach (which is how they have their 777s arranged)?

Also, what I wonder if AA will do 2-4-2, 2-5-2, or 3-3-3 in Y. Is 2-5-2 even possible on a 787?



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

I am hearing AA will introduce a new product in 2013, both F and C, and it will installed on the 787s and 777s. 763s will keep the current higher density C product.


a.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4845 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
I am hearing AA will introduce a new product in 2013, both F and C, and it will installed on the 787s and 777s. 763s will keep the current higher density C product.

It's too bad they are going to split their product like that, with a mediocre C cabin for the 767s and 757s and a much better product on the 777s and 787s, that is unless American shifts 767s onto medium haul routes to Northern Latin America, the Caribbean and Hawaii.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
Also, what I wonder if AA will do 2-4-2, 2-5-2, or 3-3-3 in Y. Is 2-5-2 even possible on a 787?

Airlines for the most part learned from their experience with the DC-10 and 747, where they configured them in much more comfortable 2-4-2 and 3-3-3/2-5-2 respectively, before looking at the bottom line and adding an additional seat per row. Very few carriers have selected 2-4-2 for the 787 (Continental is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, there are more).

9 abreast makes more sense for American.


User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4679 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
I am hearing AA will introduce a new product in 2013, both F and C, and it will installed on the 787s and 777s.

Care to elaborate?


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4367 times:



Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 4):
Care to elaborate?

Mark mentioned this several times and its been hinted at elsewhere.

By the time the first 787 enters the fleet, American's (hard) product, which is already subpar, even being one-upped by USAirways, will be upgraded. It makes sense, many airlines do it like that. US with their Envoy Suites in the 332 (the second aircraft though, the first was delivered with the regular product), Singapore with their new premium product when the 77W was added, etc...

It's really long overdue, but American traded product commonality across its fleet for a better overall product.


User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4246 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 5):

Right but is there any rumors on what kind of products(seats) they are looking at? Also will the 787 and 777 be the same seats? Finally will the 777 get a nose to tail refurbish?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 5):
American's (hard) product, which is already subpar, even being one-upped by USAirways,

If you think its subpar, you really need to try out a Delta 763/752 or US Airways 762/752, none of which have plans to get new C products. And name me another carrier that currently has lie-flat in a 752 other than OpenSkies. At least AA actually put in a real seat, not some dinky recliner like US/DL.

I agree that it's not the best product, but its comfortable (just flew on it today, actually, LAX-MIA) and still on the top half of U.S. carriers. By the time US Airways is done with its A330 conversion, which will not be until December 2012 (and, again, only on the A330s), AA will be prepping for 772 and 787 deliveries.

AA isn't going to be behind at all.

Also, the seats used currently can go flat if AA wants to remove one row from the cabin. Iberia, who has a similar C seat, is doing just this.

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 4):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
I am hearing AA will introduce a new product in 2013, both F and C, and it will installed on the 787s and 777s.

Care to elaborate?

I know nothing about what kind of product, and I doubt many at AA even know. It's so early.

I suspect we will see this, and this is based on my opinion:

*The size of the F cabin in the 777s will be reduced from 16 to only 8-12 seats.
*A true life-flat in the 777 C cabin, in a "scattered" arrangement like EK does, so that it can still be high density.
*Two 763 fleets: A high-density with a medium-haul F product for LatAm and the current kind, which is perfect for high-density leisure routes to Europe.

[Edited 2009-12-21 19:47:06]


a.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Hopefully.

American NEEDS to upgrade their J/Y hard product. Everyone else has either moved to AVOD or is installing AVOD now. US Carriers are now moving to lie flat in J, American is just finishing angled life flat.

American is going to have a lot on their hands at that time though, the 144 seat 77 original 737-800s will be going through retrofits to standardize them with the new 160 seat 737s. The Domestic 757 refurbs will be finishing up, the rear half of the 767-300s are supposed to be getting the signature interiors to match the front half of the aircraft.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4100 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
If you think its subpar, you really need to try out a Delta 763/752 or US Airways 762/752, none of which have plans to get new C products.

Where are you getting your information that DL does not have plans to upgrade the C product on the 763 when all indications from the company are they are going to begin upgrades this spring?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
If you think its subpar, you really need to try out a Delta 763/752 or US Airways 762/752, none of which have plans to get new C products.

Where are you getting your information that DL does not have plans to upgrade the C product on the 763 when all indications from the company are they are going to begin upgrades this spring?

I'm simply going on announced plans from all the airlines. Nothing has been announced. We've been hearing that the 763s are getting a new product for how many years now? And yet even 772s delivered to Delta around two years ago have ancient recliner seats.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 8):
Hopefully.

American NEEDS to upgrade their J/Y hard product. Everyone else has either moved to AVOD or is installing AVOD now. US Carriers are now moving to lie flat in J, American is just finishing angled life flat.

I really think you need to look at "everybody else" before making an incorrect statement.

Delta - Lie-flat only on the 77L and seven 764s.
Northwest - No lie-flat.
US Airways - Lie-flat only on the A330s, and complete in December 2012.
United - Best product. The 777s are still recliners but are getting lie-flat next year.
Continental - Lie-flat installation recently started and will take until December 2012.

They do need to upgrade their Y product. Is is seriously subpar. Their J product is not subpar with other U.S. airlines. AA will be moving to lie-flat in J soon enough, but they really aren't falling behind.

Two reasons AA was probably hesitant for lie-flat in 2008:
1) Cannibalize their F product.
2) It would mean less seats in J.

I don't mind it too much, because AA has the most ridiculously liberal upgrade policy (any fare except consolidator fares to LatAm can be upgraded) that makes system-wide upgrade instruments actually useful (unlike the joke SWUs that Delta gives out), and that is in part because of the high-density of their cabins.

I also at least know if I book a flight to Europe on AA, I'm getting a lie-flat angled seat. If I book a flight on Delta or US Airways or Continental, I have no such guarantee.

[Edited 2009-12-21 20:08:08]


a.
User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4063 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):

Thanks for the info. Do you think AA will venture down the road of "suites" for first, or will they stay conservative like UA? Also will they increase the size of the J cabin or will it shrink as well? Finally will AA put the crew rest under or over the main cabin to make room for more seats on the 777?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4035 times:



Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 11):
Thanks for the info. Do you think AA will venture down the road of "suites" for first, or will they stay conservative like UA?

I think AA will go to suites and introduce a product on par with BA/QF/CX, which is why I suspect there will only be 8-12 seats per plane (perhaps two rows in the 787s and three rows in the 777).

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 11):
Also will they increase the size of the J cabin or will it shrink as well?

I think AA will be looking at a way to get a lie-flat product and keep the number of seats at least similar.



a.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3991 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I'm simply going on announced plans from all the airlines. Nothing has been announced. We've been hearing that the 763s are getting a new product for how many years now?

As I recall the 763 was never supposed to be upgraded prior to 2010.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
And yet even 772s delivered to Delta around two years ago have ancient recliner seats.

Which 772s are those? The only 777s that DL has received within the last 2 years are LR's, all of which have been delivered with lie-flat seats. All 772 deliveries to DL were completed in the early part of this decade when BusinessElite was still an imporvement upon most other airlines business classes and long before they had any plans to upgrade to a lie-flat product



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineBDL2STL2PVG From China, joined Jun 2006, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3970 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 8):
The Domestic 757 refurbs will be finishing up,

Does anyone have the status on these? Have any photos made it out? I've heard about the first a/c going through Tulsa but haven't heard anything since.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3934 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 13):

As I recall the 763 was never supposed to be upgraded prior to 2010.

Well, we don't know the answer to that, because nothing has been announced.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 13):
Which 772s are those? The only 777s that DL has received within the last 2 years are LR's, all of which have been delivered with lie-flat seats.

You are correct. I thought they took some ERs with the LRs.

Nonetheless, Delta only has 15 planes with lie-flat seats and has yet to firm up any plans beyond that.

There is zero doubt that the rest of the fleet (sans maybe the 752 long-haul fleet) will get lie-flat seats of some sort, they have to because Delta's product is otherwise horrendously outdated, but the fact remains we have yet to hear firmed up plans.

Though I would not be surprised if Delta does not go to full lie-flat on the 763s because they will have to compromise density, and lie-flat simply isn't needed to be competitive in markets like Kiev, Budapest, Dublin and Copenhagen; the density is more important to make those routes work. For the same reason, I don't expect AA to switch from angle-flat to lie-flat on the 763s anytime soon. The density is needed on routes like Chicago-Rome/Dublin.



a.
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3751 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 8):
US Carriers are now moving to lie flat in J, American is just finishing angled life flat.

Nobody else ever finished installing angled lie-flat.  Wink

Of course, UA and CO seem committed to installing full-flat seats in their entire long-haul fleets (at least, I think CO is). DL apparently will keep the recliner-style seats in its 752s and US in its 752s and 762s. I can understand US but I feel like DL should do better, though it doesn't have competition on some of its 752 routes (JFK-AGP, etc.).

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I'm simply going on announced plans from all the airlines. Nothing has been announced.

Has DL not announced its intentions to begin installing flat seats in the 763s in 2010?

On the other hand, there is certainly nothing firm on the A330 or 744 and it seems DL will keep its highly outmoded recliners in the 752 indefinitely.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
They do need to upgrade their Y product. Is is seriously subpar. Their J product is not subpar with other U.S. airlines.

Is AA's Y product even subpar considering how awful most US carriers are?

Every other US carrier except CO seems to have at least one aircraft type with a Y product as bad as AA's or worse. DL and US surely operate aircraft that are worse than anything AA has on intercontinental routes, at least for now, in both J and Y, and UA's 744s might be worse in Y too.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Though I would not be surprised if Delta does not go to full lie-flat on the 763s because they will have to compromise density, and lie-flat simply isn't needed to be competitive in markets like Kiev, Budapest, Dublin and Copenhagen; the density is more important to make those routes work.

DL only sacrificed two seats in going from recliners to full-flat on the 764. I don't know why these same seats would have any more of an adverse effect on density in the 763.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3550 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I really think you need to look at "everybody else" before making an incorrect statement.

You just listed every other US carrier adding true lie flat in J. American is the only carrier not doing it, having only finished angled lie flat in J.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I also at least know if I book a flight to Europe on AA, I'm getting a lie-flat angled seat. If I book a flight on Delta or US Airways or Continental, I have no such guarantee.

Their greatest strength, we can both agree.

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 11):
Also will they increase the size of the J cabin or will it shrink as well? Finally will AA put the crew rest under or over the main cabin to make room for more seats on the 777?

American packs more longhaul F in its 777s than just about anyone, only a handful of airlines come close to that number, even in the A380.

If American were to drop from 16F to 8F, they'd be able to fit an additional 21 J seats (13 more seats total) in the current configuration (8F/21C between Doors1&2, 37J in the second cabin).


User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3407 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17):
American packs more longhaul F in its 777s than just about anyone, only a handful of airlines come close to that number, even in the A380.

If American were to drop from 16F to 8F, they'd be able to fit an additional 21 J seats (13 more seats total) in the current configuration (8F/21C between Doors1&2, 37J in the second cabin).

True, AA does have a large F cabin in their 777's but I strongly suspect that more often than not about half those seats are occupied by upgraded J class pax with Plat or ExecPlat status. I have been upgraded at least half a dozen times to F when flying internationally on AA on their 777's, especially on Japan, Brazil, India and LHR routes.

It would make sense to drop their capacity to maybe to 8 or 10F seats, and add more J seats. However, at the moment the food service on AA's international F is not better than what you get in J, in fact it's the same. If and when they revamp and launch F again in 2013, they should also seriously upgrade the service offering as well, not just put a new seat in. Right now it's just the seat that makes the difference betweem J & F, to make it truly different AA will have to spend $'s to make it a significantly different product to what they have in J.



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Speaking of seats and the like, in your opinion, which AA aircraft has the best product? The 752s? Or the 738s?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I really think you need to look at "everybody else" before making an incorrect statement.

You just listed every other US carrier adding true lie flat in J. American is the only carrier not doing it, having only finished angled lie flat in J.

US Airways is adding lie flat to about 20 planes and Delta has only added it to 15 and has yet to firm up any plans beyond that.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 16):

Has DL not announced its intentions to begin installing flat seats in the 763s in 2010?

No, nothing has been announced.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 16):

Is AA's Y product even subpar considering how awful most US carriers are?

AA is far behind in adding PTVs in Y.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 16):

DL only sacrificed two seats in going from recliners to full-flat on the 764. I don't know why these same seats would have any more of an adverse effect on density in the 763.

How many Y seats were sacrificed? On the 772, when AA went to lie-flat, AA actually added two J seats, but going true lie-flat would have meant removing 27 Y seats or as many as 14 J seats.

[Edited 2009-12-22 13:24:18]


a.
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3126 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
AA is far behind in adding PTVs in Y.

I guess, maybe. DL's 763s and 744s and ex-NW 752s have none. UA's 744s don't have them and neither do US' 752s and 762s.

At least on UA the majority of the fleet (763s and 772s) has PTVs in Y but I don't think that's true of DL/NW or US.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
How many Y seats were sacrificed?

None. They fit 40 new flat seats where there were 42 recliners. Y capacity actually increased by 6 seats. The old configuration was C42Y200, the new is C40Y206.

Old: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...pes_layout/767400er_intl/index.jsp
New: http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...r_transatlantic_lie_flat/index.jsp



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3050 times:



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 21):
I guess, maybe. DL's 763s and 744s and ex-NW 752s have none. UA's 744s don't have them and neither do US' 752s and 762s.

At least DL will be adding them eventually. AA would be stupid not to include them on their 787s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32581 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3033 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 21):
I guess, maybe. DL's 763s and 744s and ex-NW 752s have none. UA's 744s don't have them and neither do US' 752s and 762s.

At least DL will be adding them eventually. AA would be stupid not to include them on their 787s.

At the rate DL is going, AA will have 787s with lie-flats before DL has them in most of their fleet.



a.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2900 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
US Airways is adding lie flat to about 20 planes and Delta has only added it to 15 and has yet to firm up any plans beyond that.

Those 20 planes cover over 2/3 of USAirways' longhaul fleet.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):
At least DL will be adding them eventually. AA would be stupid not to include them on their 787s.

There isn't any reason why they wouldn't. The 777s have them, the new 767-300s were slated to have them, obviously the 787s will have them.


25 MAH4546 : They have 10 762s and I believe 8-10 trans-Atlantic 752.
26 Commavia : I fully agree with you that, at the moment, relative to U.S. competitors, AA's J offering - while of course nothing near on par with foreign airlines
27 BOACCunard : PTVs? There is no way AA is not going to fit PTVs to its 787s. Even LH doesn't order new long-haul aircraft without them now. I am sure the 787 will
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Will This Be Regulated In Mexico? posted Tue May 2 2006 23:32:49 by Tu154m
When Will AA's New J Seats Arrive. posted Fri Jan 6 2006 19:39:47 by Dc10s4ever
How Does AA Assign Seats? posted Mon Feb 7 2005 04:11:19 by Usa4624
KLM Will Introduce Flat Seats In BC posted Mon Sep 9 2002 20:04:58 by Skippy777
How Will AA Recover? posted Sun Jul 14 2002 19:26:37 by Padcrasher
How Will Aviation Look Like In 50 Years? posted Wed Feb 9 2000 13:37:08 by First Class
How Many Gates Will AA Need In BDL A Term? posted Wed Oct 7 2009 08:19:04 by Sectflyer
Will AA And DL Invest In Their MD80s? posted Wed Jul 1 2009 09:24:11 by 727LOVER
How Many Seats In AA's F/C/Y For 763 And 777? posted Tue Aug 26 2003 23:47:41 by *HighFlyah*
How Will ATI Impact AA/BA Trans-Atlantic Balance? posted Tue Jul 21 2009 08:30:58 by Ssides