Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17661 times:
Quoting Janmnastami (Thread starter):
ENAC ordered airlines to accept driving licenses, government badges and fishing and hunting licenses as identifications documents for domestic fligths.
Well if North America allows it, I don't see how it can be any worse in Italy.
I didn't even know this law existed in Italy. Is this also a common trend in other European countries? Does this rule apply only to intra Italy flights or can a driver's license be used to travel intra Schengen?
IndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2612 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17634 times:
When will Ryanair learn that their little ga,mes do come back to bite them in the behind (eg. CEOS comments about 'raping' Boeing on the original 737 deal).
Their actions hurt their customers who are booked on the services and the contant threats really do go too far. There should be some sort of safeguards to stop such militant actions. he airline really does act like a spoilt child and hopefully one day customers and governments stand up to this and tell them to move on.
FlyingSicilian From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17614 times:
My Italian ID looks like it was made it someone's basement (close actually in the little town I am a "resident" of). The normal Italian IDs are not that "secure". The new EU card style DL is actually more secure (and easier to carry) than my carta!
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1802 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17603 times:
FR sort of shoot themselves in the foot. Money lost from this will be huge. In a way i can see where they are coming from. I dont think you should be able to board an aircraft on a hunting license etc, even if it is domestic. I think they have over reacted though. As someone else posted, why loose a 19% market share over this.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
Airblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17480 times:
Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 1): I didn't even know this law existed in Italy. Is this also a common trend in other European countries? Does this rule apply only to intra Italy flights or can a driver's license be used to travel intra Schengen?
You could use these document ONLY on domestic flights, if you fly from Italy to UE you need the National ID Card or Passport.
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1802 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17198 times:
Quoting Myt332 (Reply 12): I do. I don't even show ID when travelling domestically on BA, BMI etc unless I put a bag in the hold and even then, with BMI, they didn't even check it on my flight the other week.
I agree with that because i regularly fly BD MAN-LHR and i dont think i have shown my passport once. But i think thats pretty bad. In this day and age you should have to show some kind of identification, and a shooting/hunting licence is a bit weak for me! Just my opinion.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
VARIG MD-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1578 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17129 times:
So if Italian authorities wish to implement a regulation on their territory, they're not allowed to do it because it goes against Cryanair policy?
And the only solution found is to hold hostage customers who have bought a ticket and to tell them hypocritically "we're sorry"....
The truth here is that this horrible airline is using its favorite blackmail tactic to obtain what they want.
They did it at other airports and countries, for other purposes
Except now we're not even sure what the security risk is, since it fits the national authority dealing with it in the first place!!!!!!
I guess Ryanair wants to position itself as a reference in security and as a model airline....yeah right
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Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12161 posts, RR: 35 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17121 times:
I don't see what FR's game is here; the regulator sets the standard of acceptable documentation and the airline obeys; full stop. If FR wants to throw its toys out of the cot - and throw away a very lucrative market, sure, be like that. I hope the ENAC doesn't give an inch.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11494 posts, RR: 62 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16993 times:
Quite often when I travel in the UK all I have to show is a bank card, no photo ID or anything. Do I feel less secure because of it? Well of course not - if you're going to go to the trouble of hijacking/bombing etc... a flight then you can probably get your hands on some fake ID as well.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
Acelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 805 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16721 times:
Quoting Groobster (Reply 21): Strangely enough I flew from DUB to MAN last week and was bussed straight to baggage collection, never passed through any passport control of any sort! - Ironically a Ryanair flight.
Why would you go through passport control?
Don't both Counties operate a open border, after all there
are no passport boarder points when travelling
between North and Southern Ireland.....
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8270 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16619 times:
For domestic travel in Germany, no ID is required. Check-in with the Bank card with which you bought the ticket and print your boarding pass at the kiosk or simply do that at home. Counter check -in, same , no ID required.
Tougher standards apply for drivers delivering cargo, an ID card or passport is required.
If FR pulls out of Italy domestic, the reason will be that they lost money in that market and now apply their usual BS tactic of blaming others. Somehow, all that adds up with the recent "walk-out" on the Boeing purchase.
Looks like the amount of masochistic passengers in Europe has its limit.
Varig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1578 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15354 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23): If FR pulls out of Italy domestic, the reason will be that they lost money in that market and now apply their usual BS tactic of blaming others. Somehow, all that adds up with the recent "walk-out" on the Boeing purchase.
Looks like the amount of masochistic passengers in Europe has its limit.
You're probably right
Because I don't know how on earth a private company has to blackmail/threaten a sovereign state due to a regulation it doesn't like
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Beagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15018 times:
I can only be happy. I had the privilege to flight once with ryan. No more.
Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 11): I guess I'm the only one surprised that fishing and hunting licenses are allowed on domestic Italian flights.
those are relased by the italian Government. To obtain them you should go to the local police office(questura) and bring a document relased by the local tribunals that certify that you didn't commited any crime in your life and a birth certificate from your local administration. So, they are safe like your passport.
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 3): My Italian ID looks like it was made it someone's basement (close actually in the little town I am a "resident" of). The normal Italian IDs are not that "secure". The new EU card style DL is actually more secure (and easier to carry) than my carta!
Now you can ask for the new electronic id card that is similar to an american driving license
Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14839 times:
Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 17): Because I don't know how on earth a private company has to blackmail/threaten a sovereign state due to a regulation it doesn't like
Why is it blackmailing? The ENAC changed the conditions that Ryanair need to comply with to operate domestic flights. Ryanair doesn't like the changed conditions. As a result, Ryanair doesn't want to do business anymore.
When my telephone company changes the conditions of my contract, and I decide not to renew my contract because of this changes, is it blackmailing?
Am I the only one who thinks that FR is right in complaining about it?
Ryanair wants a uniform procedure for identification, of course mostly for operational purposes: they have full web check-in, handling agents with different nationalities, and by having a standard set of allowed ID documents, they can work efficiently. They do not need to train their employees to correctly recognize hunderds of different identification documents throughout Europe. Instead, they choose to accept two very well-known types of documents: Passports and Identity cards.
Now, many countries (including the UK, Spain) allow carriers to accept other forms of documents, other than the standard ones. But here, FR decides not to use their right of accepting these documents. But in Italy, ENAC obliges FR to accept a series of documents. Evem though FR is very clear in stating that they accept a limited range of documents, which everyone is supposed to possess.
Of course, you cannot simply cover any demand in the T&C's. That's where consumer protection laws are made for. But then the single question is: is the demand issued by FR to present a national ID-card or passport at check-in, unreasonable? I think it's not unreasonable at all.
Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14820 times:
And about blackmailing: the ENAC threatens to imprison handling agents who refuse people presenting a fishing license at check-in to travel, despite of them having agreed to T&C which clearly indicate that an ID-card or passport is required.
Quote: Ryanair does NOT accept driver licence, residence cards, family books, seaman books, Ministerial ID's, military ID cards, Italian AT/BT cards etc. Expired or damaged forms of photo-id will not be accepted on any flight.
So what is blackmailing? Putting handling agents in prisons, now that's something that upsets me.
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14749 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16): If FR pulls out of Italy domestic, the reason will be that they lost money in that market and now apply their usual BS tactic of blaming others. Somehow, all that adds up with the recent "walk-out" on the Boeing purchase.
Agreed. If they were making money they would not be dropping the flights.
CrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1722 posts, RR: 41 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 14741 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Quoting Joost (Reply 19):
Am I the only one who thinks that FR is right in complaining about it?
No, no matter if this is FR, KL, AA or whoever, I think they should standardize this around the European Union to passport/EU ID as the only means of ID. Even on domestic flights. It's much easier to screen for authentic forms of ID if it is limited to these two only. More forms of ID makes for more opportunities to create a fake.
FlyingSicilian From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14651 times:
Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 18): Now you can ask for the new electronic id card that is similar to an american driving license
Not in my town, I just did a new card a month ago. Supposedly they will get it at some point and have to send off to Messina so they can process it. But then again my official residence is in a very small town north of Taormina that is old fashioned. Catania, Messina and Siracusa are issuing the new driver's cards though which I plan on getting next year.
There are plenty of other airlines in Italia that will take FR's money off the table.
Bye Bye Windjet
25 Beagleboys: Thats not true. Enac is not apolice force and will only signal the wrong behavior to the autority. Mr O'Leary as usally is making things bigger as th
26 FlyingSicilian: Why are no other airlines "taking their ball and going home"? As I noted above, the current Italian ID card is a piece of paper with the ID picture g
27 Mariner: I don't know. Ryanair has been first to do a lot of things. So maybe Ryanair may have been losing money in Italy and they may be simply taking their
28 FlyingSicilian: An ID does not equal any kind of security---AT ALL. ID does not = security. That is the feckless policy the TSA tries to state in the USA as well. Th
29 Mariner: It may not to you, but I, as a passenger, feel more comfortable with it. I have a problem passport, because of my birth country, and I am fully sympa
30 Woof: Of course it can add to security. What if that ID you hold identifies you as someone who was previously denied travel for making threats, or a thousa
31 FlyingSicilian: How so. Do you think the airline checks to see if "bad" people are on their airplane? Your boarding pass is more easily faked to match a real ID. Do
32 Janmnastami: ENAC doesn't threaten to imprison anyone: ENAC declared that authorities will be informed of behaviours in violation of law. "Eventuali comportamenti
33 FlyingSicilian: So let me get this straight. You think that the EU is encoding their national IDs with past criminal histories, which you think the airline and gate
34 Woof: Yes, they are blacklisted by name. BUT, if I didn't need to show any form of photo ID, I just book my ticket under a false name, simples. Sure ID can
35 Mariner: That fact. It can easily go wrong, but I would rather see more security than less. Personally, I'd have a higher level of security. But I don't make
36 FlyingSicilian: If the person is screened completely and properly by security none of that matters. And I have flown many times with just hand luggage, and never sho
37 FlyingSicilian: Again, I ask you to tell us what about checking the ID provides security to anyone. We don't need more security, we need proper security. And that is
38 Mariner: Perhaps surprisingly, the US INS were extremely sympathetic about it. They suggested that they change my place of birth by a hundred miles to another
39 RussianJet: Well, with respect, unlike the guy I'm about to quote, you probably don't know much about Italian documentation. They are disgracefully unsecure docu
40 Woof: I am utterly dumbfounded. I'll keep my reasons to myself as it's Christmas Eve and I'm feeling particularly festive. What a ridiculous few sentences.
41 FlyingSicilian: You feel festive because I worked treaty requirements for 3 years with NATO? ok good for you. I hold citizenship in 3 countries, 2 by bloodright and
42 Woof: Which part didn't you understand? No, that part worries me. The festivities come from it being Christmas day tomorrow. Happy Christmas to you to. Eve
43 F.pier: I 'm sure Ryanair has good reasons to require ID cards or passports only. I think these should be the only documents accepted. Everybody knows I'm a b
44 FlyingSicilian: You don't bypass security with an ID. Everyone goes through security. No one is stopped now due to ID. Sorry you didn't figure that out. So you want
45 Janmnastami: Can you explain? There isn't any difference between an Italian passport or a French one and it's the same for driving licenses. The real problem coul
46 RussianJet: Italian ID cards (old style, paper) should be banned for all travel purposes. You may as well carry a library card for ID purposes. Probably more secu
47 F.pier: Italian old ID cards (still issued in the most of towns and cities) are not simply piece of papers because they have safety features similar to the on
48 PPVRA: The militant one here is you. You are the one promoting the use of force to stop something YOU don' like. Are you people kidding me? So WHAT if they
49 RussianJet: Indeed they do have some 'safety features'. However, they are poor-quality and easy to replicate. In comparison to most modern ID cards they are trul
50 Woof: Wrong I'm afraid. There have been posts just this year about VIPs bypassing security based on who their ID proclaims them to be. I would also expect,
51 PPVRA: Because there's a big difference there, right? They don't have to explain themselves to you or to anyone. Return the money back to the pax, pack u
52 Beagleboys: the same applies to most passport of the world. you can buy an american/uk/russian/kazakistan passport where you want. Printed on original papers. di
53 RussianJet: Of course any country's passports can and are forged, counterfeited or stolen. That's not the point. Italy has a serious problem with old-style ID ca
54 Janmnastami: Anyway, FR accepts Italian identity cards, the problem is with other documents .
55 BasilFawlty: Just bring your passport or your identity card with you when you are travelling, how hard can it be? It should be the international standard that you
56 Janmnastami: The problem is not with bank cards or library cards (nobody is saying these documents should be accepted), but with documents released by the governm
57 UALWN: No ID of any kind is required on German domestic flights. Do you feel insecure when you fly in Germany? Ryanair does not feel insecure! They just fee
58 Mariner: What is the problem? It's a free market. I'm not aware of any law that says Ryanair MUST fly within Italy. I seem to remember that the Italian govern
59 Janmnastami: I agree with you, FR isn't obliged to fly domestically in Italy and I agree also on the strangeness of fishing licenses as ID, but if FR wants to fly
60 Mariner: Maybe they've decided they don't want to fly in Italy domestically. Or maybe MOL has some quite different agenda, who knows? Maybe he's fishing for s
61 Avek00: Those of you going on about Italian ID requirements have completely missed the REAL point as to why Ryanair is stopping Italian domestic flights. It c
62 AirNz: Why on earth would you show your passport LHR-MAN????? Hmmm! considering there is no Immigration Control between the United Kingdom and Republic of I
63 Janmnastami: And have they decided it after having started domestic routes from ten bases?
64 Mariner: I've no idea. Anything is possible. Until I know all the facts - or can see inside MOL's brain - I'm only speculating. But he always has a reason for
65 PPVRA: Of course, who possible else should decide? You? It's not your airline, you have no right. Yes. That's their problem. No they shouldn't. What's the p
66 PanHAM: TheT&C are null and void if they are against the laws in that country. You can sign anything, if your landlord tells you to sign that you cannot take
67 Lightsaber: I wonder if this is part of MOL's policy of fighting creeping costs. This ID law will have a cost for FR. The idea might be to keep other European cou
68 F.pier: This is only a thought but it seems to me that this can only be an excuse tu cut flights in a 2 weeks period of very poor passengers load. Maybe in th
69 Varig md-11: What world are you living in? are you from Rondonia? The petty gvt agency does decide what is going on in their country, it's not up to a comercial f
70 Mariner: It is entirely up to that company to decide whether they to run domestic service in that country or not. Quite serious. It was issued by the INS. The
71 Varig md-11: You're right but I was not commenting on the service itself but more on the way state rules are applied by the service provider It's like wen U2 was
72 UALWN: Absolutely. Not me, but the government of the country the airline operates in. The government sets the rules. FR may either accept them or leave. It'
73 Sflaflight: Well my Italian passport looks just like other passports worldwide. My Italian drivers license is modern and very ''North American'' since it is the
74 RussianJet: ......and? Had you read things through properly, you would know that the object of my fierce criticism is the old-style Italian national ID card, and
75 Mariner: I love to watch him work, to watch him "negotiate." I love the way he shakes things up, the way he ruffles feathers. I admire his chutzpah and he mak
76 PPVRA: Property IS sovereign control. It is not up to others to decide. This case is even worse, as there is absolutely no reason to force FR to do this. It
77 UALWN: Well, as I'm sure you very well know, it doesn't go like this. In this case, the Italian civil aviation authority has the power to force FR to accept
78 PPVRA: Yes indeed, they have the power. Doesn't make it right, does it?
79 UALWN: Yeah, FR would have the power. Wouldn't it make it right, would it?
80 PPVRA: Of course it would, they are defending what is theirs. Since when do you have a right to use other's property?[Edited 2009-12-25 15:16:00]
81 UALWN: Form the time you pay to use it. Look, FR doesn't have a God-given right to fly domestically in Italy. They have to do it according to Italian civil
82 PPVRA: That's a contract that allows you to use the airline, but they can (or should be able to) still rescind it before the flight (returning your money, o
83 UALWN: Exactly. Just like FR has permission to fly domestically within Italy if they abide by the local law. Otherwise...
84 PanHAM: You are totally wrong. The conditions of contract of any company must be in line with the applicalble laws of the country where they are doing busine
85 VARIG MD-11: Thanks for supporting common sense view....or is it EU view against fazendeiro-far west view But I believe we deal either with a Ryanair militant or
86 RussianJet: Evidently so, seeing as that is precisely what they are doing.
87 Revelation: And in my opinion it's arrogant to presume Ryan is leaving because they are losing money and not because they are genuinely concerned about improving
88 UALWN: I think FR doesn't care a iota about "improving" identification procedures. They do care about making those procedures uniform across their operation
89 TUIflyer: Ryanair will do whatever they wish, they are a privately owned business and will act as such. I suspect though this is an excuse, FR won't as we are
90 Mariner: Hmmmm? Ryanair have over 100 Boeing aircraft coming in over the next three years: http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/gen-en-181209 "Ryanair confirmed tha
91 TUIflyer: No doubt the a/c will be re-deployed to a new hub therefore creating even more opportunities for expansion when the new a/c come. TUIflyer
92 Mariner: That may well happen. I don't know what MOL's actual end-game is here, but I am interested to find out. mariner
93 TUIflyer: I think he probably just closes his eyes, sticks a pin in a map and then thinks of a number - it's that simple. I am of course joking, but it does ap
94 Mariner: Obviously, I can only agree because I have already made that point: mariner
95 TUIflyer: Tell me how this . . . is the same as: TUIflyer
96 Beagleboys: wrong, they have to. For the italian law the paper ID card have to be Riveted, glued and dry stamped. Otherwise its not a valid italian ID. Trust me
97 Mariner: That we both agree how effective the Ryanair - or MOL's - PR department is. mariner
98 Varig md-11: Sorry, I am going to be a smart#ss but this is not "the little house in the prairie" : MOL has appeared in the past to be motivated by € making and
99 RussianJet: Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It is FREQUENTLY seen issued otherwise. You can argue all you like, my own eyes and hands regularly experience it.
100 Evomutant: Who cares what an Italian ID card is like? It is completely irrelevent. Italian law dictates they are aceptable, FR does want to take them. They go th
101 RussianJet: Obviously some of us here do. You don't? Fine, you don't have to comment on that particular matter. To a large extent it is irrelevant in this topic,
102 Evomutant: That's fair enough. And FWIW, I agree that some of the documents that are deemed acceptable by the Italian Authorities are not worth the paper they a
103 Beagleboys: you know the difference from milan(mxp, Lin) and Bergamo (bgy)? it's 1 hour drive if you are lucky. If it's a normal working day you can take 3 hours
104 F.pier: STarnge that you Quite strange you put Mario Balotelli famous football player as an example...
105 Globeex: I would like to add something to this discussion and I don't know what the procedure is like in Italy, however I might suspect, that it is at least si
106 RussianJet: No, I'm not. I'm in something that require a far more detailed and routine knowledge of passports and ID cards, and the FACT is that there are many s
107 Beagleboys: I told you, i had an AOM, an electoral guide, and a State Officier that told me to reject those documents. I asked also to a friends that work here i
108 Mariner: Are they asking to be an exception? Presumably if it were changed it would affect all airlines. You think it would make one iota of difference to him
109 TUIflyer: FR are a loose cannon, but to be honest FR probably relish the fact they are so disliked and the fact their decisions are so controversial, it makes
110 RussianJet: Hallelujah. He finally gets the point.
111 Globeex: Well of course they do. Other airlines are doing it the way Italy demands it and FR doesn't want it this way. So for me they are asking for an except
112 Mariner: If the rule is changed, it can only be changed for everyone. Just because other airlines are following it now, that doesn't mean they have to follow
113 PPVRA: Only individuals can be sovereign. Infringing this is wrong. It happens all the time, but is wrong nonetheless.
114 PanHAM: Last I heard was that Brasil is a sovereign state and not a sovereign kingdom, your Majesty. The same applies for Italy. The lawmakers make the laws a
115 Mariner: I thought they were doing precisely that. mariner
116 Joost: But here we're talking about "may" and "must". The local law says a fishing license is a valid ID. But this can be interpreted in two ways: Airlines
117 777236ER: This is nonsense. Ryanair can of course demand that they see any form of ID they like. If they demand two bank statements, utility bills and passport
118 Joost: I wouldn't believe this immediately. True, FR is often blaming other parties for non-performing routes, most notably with their CRL-STN service. Howe
119 UALWN: This is your (libertarian) point of view. There are others. If the Italian Civil Aviation authority tells FR that they cannot demand an utility bill,
120 Joost: But they "cannot" is slightly different than the "can". (or "must", see my post). ENAC can of course revoke FR's license, and then FR can go to court
121 UALWN: Indeed there's nothing wrong with that.
122 Varig md-11: To be honest I think about U2 because they fly from my home airport (CDG) and not a lousy in-a-middle-of-a-field aircamp (Beauvais) Yes in Mato Gross
123 Joost: I think I've described it Let's take two extremes (just imaginary examples): A. An airline doesn't want to take people over 70 years old. The governm
124 Burkhard: If the Italian government thinks that the fishing card is enough, ( Given the fact it is in the same ridicoulous security hype as most other governmen
125 RussianJet: Perhaps, though I very much doubt 'others' will be able to deploy onto as many routes and offering the same level of low fares. Love Ryanair or hate
126 Evomutant: Which makes you wonder if there is something more than just taking a stand behind this move. If they are so popular, and demand is so great (and I do
127 777236ER: But that's the reverse argument. The Italian NAA aren't telling FR they need to stop doing something, they're saying they should start to do somethin
128 PPVRA: A "country" or the "Government" are entirely abstract concepts. Abstract concepts cannot "do" anything. Thus, it cannot be sovereign. You need indivi
129 PanHAM: It is really hard to understand. Again, any T&C which are not in conjunction with the laws of the country that a company is doing business in are null
130 RussianJet: That's fine. But surely a company is perfectly entitled to raise objections as it sees fit and if, as in this case, things don't look like they are g
131 PanHAM: Yes of course. Ryanair does not provide a public service, hence they are not obliged to provide airline service within Italy. The interesting point i
132 777236ER: You're wrong. The law of the land may be that ID can include fishing licenses. The airline can quite easily impose stricter requirements, on grounds
133 RussianJet: Surely that depends on whether they have viable and more hassle-free alternatives at their disposal.
134 PPVRA: A company cannot impose anything on its customers unilaterally(and vice versa for that matter), such a contract would be legally not binding. A contr
135 BrouAviation: Italy more and more continues to look like some bad regulated third-world banana republic. This exactly the kind of thing that should be regulated by
136 Mariner: He isn't saying that. He's just ended negotiation for more aircraft and says that growth will be slowed. Yes, indeed: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/
137 UALWN: The requirement is unreasonable, but the airline cannot just ignore it! They can fight it in the courts, or leave. I hope they do it, if it comes to
138 Joost: No they expect that they get what they want. I think they will. Where did I say they were? It's uncommon. Other carriers would enable their lobiests
139 Varig md-11: My sarcasm is absolutely justified: many ATC guys complained Ryanair crews were aggressive and always trying to dictate what was best for their plane
140 Janmnastami: You're wrong: the equivalence between different identification documents are regulated by law and the contract between the carrier and the customer c
141 RussianJet: On Ryanair they certainly are. Only passports and national ID cards accepted, even on UK domestic flights and Common Travel Area flights (i.e. betwee