Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NW And South America/Africa  
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2675 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

I couldn't find even one photo of NW in South America or Africa. NW must have visited these continents at least once. Any scheduled, charter, or diversion flights to these continents by NW? Has DL subbed an NW aircraft for service to South America, Africa, or the Middle East?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

NW has done many charters to the Middle East in support of US troop movements. 747-200 movements were commonplace, and I'm very sure that A330s and 747-400s have been utilized as well.

I doubt DL has subbed any NW birds for South America/Africa service though due to crew placements, etc. It would make it quite hard logistically, plus there still might be bilateral issues since NW and DL are separate operating certificates still. It's possible that NW has done charters to these places, but that would be about it.


User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7571 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

I imagine at some point DL will use the 744s to do ATL-GRU. What do you guys think?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7570 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5166 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I imagine at some point DL will use the 744s to do ATL-GRU. What do you guys think?

I think a 777 is more likely. But ATL-GRU might be a good 777 route.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7571 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5157 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
I think a 777 is more likely. But ATL-GRU might be a good 777 route.

If I am not mistaken, DL has in the past used the 77E to GRU. ATL-GRU is now a 764 route, isn't it?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4973 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
If I am not mistaken, DL has in the past used the 77E to GRU. ATL-GRU is now a 764 route, isn't it?

yes and yes.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
I think a 777 is more likely. But ATL-GRU might be a good 777 route.

330 is more likely IMO. If DL could get 2x daily then i would say i agree but IMO the route could use the seats only being 1x daily.



yep.
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

In the last dozen or so years, I can't think of a single NW flight-charter or otherwise- that went to S. America.


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

NW's route network made it unlikely that it would have ever served Latin America (aside from the leisure beach destinations and MEX) or Africa on its own. Even its transatlantic and transpac route systems revolved around overseas hubs in order to funnel the most amount of traffic through a couple points.....

but all of that will change w/ DL which has a much larger domestic network and a strong presence on the east coast where alot more of the traffic to many destinations originates.

Originally, the plan was to extensively use the 330s to Latin America during the winter and to Europe during the summer, swapping with the 764 and 3s. There was talk of using the 744 to GRU but w/ softness in the maket and Brazil's removal of fare controls, adding alot of capacity doesn't make sense right now.

It is very likely that the 2010-11 northern winter season will see 330s to S. America. There are a couple obstacles, though. First, the 330s have a lower percentage of business class seats than any other DL or NW widebody and business class is high yielding to Latin America. The new 764 lie flat business class product is a higher quality product than the 330 angled lie flat as well. The 333 is the 2nd highest capacity aircraft in the DL/NW fleet behind the 744 so there is some room to change the seating config and still have a high capacity aircraft. Second, many of the countries in Latin America require special pilot qualifications/checkoffs due to terrain. It is expensive to keep swapping equipment in some markets - GRU included - because of the pilot quals that have to be done. Third, the 333 wil be on the edge of its performance envelope from some higher altitude airports - GRU included - to/from ATL although the 332 has a good margin - if fully loaded and w/ cargo - which is also valuable from Latin America. With the performance improvement package that DL is supposedly going to put on all 330s and the likely seat reduction with addition of more business class seats, the 333 should gan enough of an edge to be useful in many markets in Latin America.

As with all things in this merger, DL and NW aircraft and personnel will be able to do things that they couldn't have done if each airline stayed on its own.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If I am not mistaken, DL has in the past used the 77E to GRU. ATL-GRU is now a 764 route, isn't it?[/quote]

ATL-EZE, ATL-GIG and ATL-GRU are 764 routes.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
I imagine at some point DL will use the 744s to do ATL-GRU. What do you guys think?

If they do that they kill LAX-GRU and JFK-GRU on low season. DL can better use as World Traveller said, A332/A333 to GIG/GRU/EZE flights out of ATL.
But right now i would say, DL need to improve their business product which will be very soon the worst to Brazil and Argentina.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4498 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
If I am not mistaken, DL has in the past used the 77E to GRU. ATL-GRU is now a 764 route, isn't it?

[/quote]
correct... and you are also correct about where the 764 is flying now.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
But right now i would say, DL need to improve their business product which will be very soon the worst to Brazil and Argentina.

DL's 764ERs are getting lie flat seats... originally GRU was slated to be one of the first cities to get the retrofitted aircraft but LHR and SVO I believe are all that got the 76Ds as I believe they are known.

CO doesn't have plans to put a lie flat product on its 767s IIRC.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4451 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
CO doesn't have plans to put a lie flat product on its 767s IIRC.

They do not have the plans for the 764 ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4402 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
CO doesn't have plans to put a lie flat product on its 767s IIRC.

they do for sure with the 764s(IIRC they will keep 2-3 with out lie-flats for GUM) and I believe someone has said CO will now put them on the 762s because the 787 are so late.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 7):
First, the 330s have a lower percentage of business class seats than any other DL or NW widebody and business class is high yielding to Latin America.

ding ding ding. We may see Delta add more C seats to the 330s but i'm not sure what they will do with them.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
DL's 764ERs are getting lie flat seats...

as will the 763ERs. while that wont mean much to GRU(IIRC its 764 all year) it will to SCL,EZE and GIG which see the 763 at off peak times. (I think SCL is getting 763 this winter but it got a 764 last year) Delta upgrading its fleet will do nothing but help them.



yep.
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
CO doesn't have plans to put a lie flat product on its 767s IIRC.

All CO 757-200s, 767-200ERs, 777-200ERs, 787s will get the Lie flat Businessfirst seats, only 12 of the 16 767-400s will get them. The four that will not receive the lie flat BusinessFirst seats are the aircraft that operate with Air Micronesia between Guam and Japan and Honolulu.

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...ght/businessfirst/fleetstatus.aspx

[Edited 2009-12-26 16:59:08]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4132 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
as will the 763ERs. while that wont mean much to GRU(IIRC its 764 all year) it will to SCL,EZE and GIG which see the 763 at off peak times. (I think SCL is getting 763 this winter but it got a 764 last year) Delta upgrading its fleet will do nothing but help them.

Would help DL on JFK-GRU and LAX-GRU also.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4122 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
All CO 757-200s, 767-200ERs, 777-200ERs, 787s will get the Lie flat Businessfirst seats, only 12 of the 16 767-400s will get them.

thanks for the update but it wasn't that long ago that it was stated that CO would not be puttin lie flat seats on its 767s.

Let's also keep in mind that CO and DL's plans for upgraded business class seats are future tense or in progress. If CO does not have any 767s w/ lie flat seats on them NOW, then it is not accurate to say that DL has an inferior product on its 767s.

The bottom line is that apparently all of CO and DL's widebody fleets will get a true lie flat product before very long and that will most certainly benefit passengers in Latin America as wella s every other region of the world, including Africa which CO does not serve.


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3829 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
thanks for the update but it wasn't that long ago that it was stated that CO would not be puttin lie flat seats on its 767s.

They never said they weren't, they just announced the 757-200 and 777-200ER ones first.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
Let's also keep in mind that CO and DL's plans for upgraded business class seats are future tense or in progress. If CO does not have any 767s w/ lie flat seats on them NOW, then it is not accurate to say that DL has an inferior product on its 767s.

Just to confirm, DL is not installing Lieflats on their Trans-Altantic 757-200s correct?.. Or atleast they have not officially announced anything.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3804 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
Just to confirm, DL is not installing Lieflats on their Trans-Altantic 757-200s correct?.. Or atleast they have not officially announced anything.

Have not said they are.....and I'm not counting on it.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
They never said they weren't, they just announced the 757-200 and 777-200ER ones first.

IIRC they didn't say the 762 at first and then came back and said they would add them on the 762s.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Would help DL on JFK-GRU and LAX-GRU also.

IMHO it will help Delta on any route. If they are going to run them to Asia it will really help.



yep.
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3734 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
IIRC they didn't say the 762 at first and then came back and said they would add them on the 762s.

They did have a more expedited schedule for the 767-200ER retirement, however the long 787 delay forced CO to reconsider. Now there's no imminent date for the 767-200ER retirement, even when the 787 deliveries commence.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3698 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
They did have a more expedited schedule for the 767-200ER retirement, however the long 787 delay forced CO to reconsider. Now there's no imminent date for the 767-200ER retirement, even when the 787 deliveries commence.

Right, I really think CO should look into something like AA has done with there 762ERs. Do Transcons or something with them.



yep.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3942 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
Right, I really think CO should look into something like AA has done with there 762ERs. Do Transcons or something with them.

I'm sure CO would be more than happy to do so if they had the flexibility to do so, however, that wont be the case for a long time into the delivery of the 787.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3570 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
IMHO it will help Delta on any route. If they are going to run them to Asia it will really help.

Could be, but competition to Asia offers more comfortable products. The 763 will be competitive with a better business product with the economy PTV. The 763 will be the king to Europe in my view, in markets where DL already got good results, but will be even better explored, as well as will allow them to begin new city pairs.
Potential in Europe is very high for a 763 with PTV and Lie/Flat business seats.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16860 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3541 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 18):
Right, I really think CO should look into something like AA has done with there 762ERs. Do Transcons or something with them.

If CO/UA ever merge the 767-200ERs would be perfect for P.S. flights.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3514 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
If CO does not have any 767s w/ lie flat seats on them NOW, then it is not accurate to say that DL has an inferior product on its 767s.

CO's 767s without lie-flat have much wider seats and aisles in J than DL's.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
If CO/UA ever merge the 767-200ERs would be perfect for P.S. flights.

They sure would be. I don't know what AA will be using by then but a late-production 767 is a fantastic aircraft from a pax standpoint.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3302 times:



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 22):
CO's 767s without lie-flat have much wider seats and aisles in J than DL's

They do now... but comparing a DL 767 with lie flat business class seats (and they do exist and the number of such aircraft is growing) to a CO 767 with wide but still angled seats is not at all valid.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 22):
a late-production 767 is a fantastic aircraft from a pax standpoint.

financially, though, it is not viable. the 762ER has about the same trip costs as a 763ER or even a 764ER but with a whole lot less passengers. The fact that the 762ER sold very few copies after the 763ER became available is evidence it isn't financially viable. The 762ER has only marginally more range for significantly higher seat costs.


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3219 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):

financially, though, it is not viable. the 762ER has about the same trip costs as a 763ER or even a 764ER but with a whole lot less passengers.

Well, I think we can both agree that it was rather silly for CO to have bought these 762ERs. I never really understood what the point was.

But AA seems to make them work though on JFK-LAX/SFO, so I don't see why UA couldn't, hypothetically.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
25 MAH4546 : Better range and cargo capacity than the 752s. Good for thin, premium markets like Geneva, or thin markets that are too far for the 752, like Berlin
26 BOACCunard : But if a 763 costs the same to operate, you have extra seats when you need them, and aren't losing much when you don't. CO does seem pretty eager to
27 MAH4546 : I was comparing it to the 752/764, but yes I would agree versus a 763.
28 BOACCunard : Yeah. I didn't mean in comparison to the other a/c in the CO fleet, but in comparison to the 763, which CO should have bought IMHO. It is not a coinc
29 CALMSP : CO did purchase the 763, however never put them in the fleet.
30 BOACCunard : It ordered them but did it not change its orders to the 762 and 764? Or were these aircraft built but never put into service by CO? Anyway, the 762 o
31 STT757 : Some were built, but never flew with CO. In the early '90s (pre 1994 Bethune) CO ordered the A330, A340, 757 and 767-300. When Bethune and his group
32 BOACCunard : Ah, I didn't realize that. I thought the order was cancelled early enough that they were never built.
33 SJOtoLIR : The seasonal NW MSP-LIR operated a little while back in [2007-2008] and before the announced merger NW/DL. MRLB/LIR Liberia is a leisure beach destin
34 DeltaL1011man : Delta has one of them. I believe like 4 or 5 were built
35 NWAESC : Quite right. On Saturdays, IIRC. I would have mentioned it, but I didn't consider Central America as part of South America. P.S. The Pacific coast of
36 Af773atmsp : I never knew that NW flew from MSP to Costa Rica. How come the route was dropped?
37 NWAESC : NW did a bunch of 1x weekly routes for awhile. Besides LIR, if memory serves, ZIH, MZT and a few others were in the mix. No idea why that stopped, tho
38 SJOtoLIR : Well, I don't manage a lot of information in this topic. NW MSP-LIR 1x weekly did operate from January to April and the last time I saw the plane in
39 CALMSP : I can remember almost 8-9 years ago looking at the printed paper flight schedule and seeing LIR.......at that time, I had no idea what it was!! They w
40 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Yes, 5 763ERs were built for CO in 1995 but cancelled at a late stage in production. Three are with UK leisure carrier Thomson Airways, (previously w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Old Jets And South America! posted Sat Nov 11 2006 17:02:21 by YEGer
Etops Between NZ And South America posted Tue Mar 29 2005 06:10:15 by Aerohottie
UA Question Concerning MIA And South America posted Mon May 21 2001 14:53:01 by Donc
Grupo Taca And South America posted Sun Apr 29 2001 05:51:09 by Republic
Aeroflot And Africa/South America posted Wed Oct 30 2002 12:32:25 by ARN
South America And South Africa Routes? posted Fri Oct 12 2001 01:23:51 by Airplanetire
Canada And South Africa Sign Air Agreement At Last posted Wed Aug 5 2009 19:28:00 by DavidYYC
Hope For 717 In Africa, South America, Eastern EU? posted Tue Nov 25 2008 00:14:39 by Boeingdotcom
DL+NW & UA+CO And Latin America posted Fri Nov 21 2008 18:58:31 by Eastern023
NW DC-9s Going To South America? posted Mon Mar 24 2008 07:29:11 by Cbartolucci