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Passenger Misses Flight, Bags Still On Board  
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10634 times:

Hi guys,

I came across this short report (sorry German only) about an incident on enroute FRA-DTW on Dec 26:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,669111,00.html

What seems to be LH 442 (an A330-300) had to divert to KEF due to a bag being onboard without the passenger is belonged to [though: flightstats shows this flight to be ahead of schedule, so maybe my mistake or mis-informed media?]. There, the bag was deplaned, and the aircraft resumed its flight. The possible security threat was only discovered after the airplane was airbourne."

Of course, without the recent events regarding the thwarted bombing of the Northwest plane, this would be merely making the news at all. I dare say that I don not understand much of airline security regulations, but how can it happen that the security guys at FRA don't notice if an unattended bag is onboard?

Also, what puzzles me is how this "no bag without corresponding passenger" is applied at all. Obviously, there are exeptions for delayed luggage? In 2008 I was on a bmi flight DUB-LHR, on which all the luggage arrived at the gate only after the flight was closed, resulting in being sent with the next plane (at least this is what the pax were told).

Thanks for your answers. Merry Christmas holidays.

Tobias


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10609 times:

This is in definite breach of AAA regulations. They state that no bag should travel unaccompanied except where extra security screening has taken place (ie for repatriating delayed baggage - 'rush bags')

If a passenger doesn't show up at the gate and the bags have always been loaded, the bag must be removed from the aircraft, and it cannot move until this has done so. The dispatcher signs to say that all bags are accompanied. Obviously this can sometimes go wrong, its easy enough to make a mistake on check-in for example, and the bag can inadvertently travel without its owner. It should not happen however.

For bags that need to travel unaccompanied (ie those that have missed their original flight), advanced explosive detecting x-ray screening has to take place, a certificate is signed, and a separate entry is made on the loadplan/loadsheet for the bag.

These 'Triple A Regulations' were brought about mainly as a result of the Pan Am Lockerbie disaster, where a bag (with the explosive) was traveling without the passenger who checked it in.



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlinePlaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10584 times:

Here is some info in English:http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE5BP08M20091226?rpc=44


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineTraveladdict From Malaysia, joined Feb 2009, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10272 times:



Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Also, what puzzles me is how this "no bag without corresponding passenger" is applied at all. Obviously, there are exeptions for delayed luggage?

I've been wondering the same thing for quite some time now. Couldn't this potentially be very dangerous? Heaven forbid, but what if someone put in a detonated bomb in their bag which goes off at the press of a button, and they had an inside man working with the bags and purposely "lost the bag" and the bag goes on the next flight out and the terrorist could just press the button when he's sure the bag has been loaded on a flight that he's not on...

Another thing I'm wondering is, if your bag goes missing and it's delivered to your hotel/house whatever the following day or 2 days later, nothing in that bag gets declared right, so someone could just bring any "forbidden" items they want, be it something very lethal or just something plain like certain foods and stuff not allowed eg in Australia... Is there a system to prevent all this?


User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10201 times:

It's called positive bag match. For the bag to be loaded on the plane the passenger must also be on the aircraft. Have you ever wondered why your on an INT'L flight and the door is closed and ready to push back, only to look out the window and see the cargo loader go back up to the aircraft and open the cargo door? It's typically a bag pull... At UA we use scanners to scan the bags to cans/tins and load the bag, but alas when departure time comes and we are missing a pax we must pull the bag which typically means pulling the bag out of the cans/tins. This usually takes anywhere from 5 to 25 mins depending on what position the can/tin is in and where the bag is in the can/tin...It pays to check in on time...This process is only used for INT'L flights only...Hope this helps explain some things...

Just my 0.02

[Edited 2009-12-26 18:58:15]


The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineAirstairFear From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10170 times:

What happens if a passenger boards the aircraft, but then "realizes he forgot something" and hurriedly rushes back into the terminal before anyone can demand his name or seat number? Is it possible such behaviour _might_ slip by relatively unnoticed?

Assuming it was noticed, what do they normally do, go row by row and check off which passengers are present, just hoping that the bad guy hasn't convinced an unknowing accomplice to switch assigned seats? Actually, with cattle call airlines that wouldn't even be an option, you'd pretty much have to ask for boarding passes from the entire aircraft all over again, eh?



CAM-1: Aw #. We're gonna hit houses dude.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9973 times:



Quoting AirstairFear (Reply 5):
What happens if a passenger boards the aircraft, but then "realizes he forgot something" and hurriedly rushes back into the terminal before anyone can demand his name or seat number? Is it possible such behaviour _might_ slip by relatively unnoticed?

Not possible.

Quoting AirstairFear (Reply 5):
ssuming it was noticed, what do they normally do, go row by row and check off which passengers are present

Firstly the Pax would have been screened with his hand bags.So no question of getting on board unchecked.Same with the checked in bags.
however policy states if the pax is offloaded,so does the bags.The handbag policy permits only one.
security dept will take a call on the reason the Pax decides to opt out.

regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9801 times:



Quoting Traveladdict (Reply 3):

I've been wondering the same thing for quite some time now. Couldn't this potentially be very dangerous? Heaven forbid, but what if someone put in a detonated bomb in their bag which goes off at the press of a button, and they had an inside man working with the bags and purposely "lost the bag" and the bag goes on the next flight out and the terrorist could just press the button when he's sure the bag has been loaded on a flight that he's not on...

What if that passenger was suicidal and intended on pressing that button whilst sitting on that very aircraft! Simple....the bag gets screened at the airport. However 100% screening is still not a global thing so I suppose that would be the end of all! However, Mr Terrorist would be stupid to just have it miss his flight as his (assuming its a he, could be a she in this PC world of ours) bag would then most certainly be subject to a full secondary search which would be more thorough then the initial one given at checkin. Now I ask you this, How does a passenger "purposely" get his baggage lost?????

Quoting Traveladdict (Reply 3):

Another thing I'm wondering is, if your bag goes missing and it's delivered to your hotel/house whatever the following day or 2 days later, nothing in that bag gets declared right, so someone could just bring any "forbidden" items they want, be it something very lethal or just something plain like certain foods and stuff not allowed eg in Australia... Is there a system to prevent all this?

I worked in Baggage Tracing a few years ago for an Irish airline based in Dublin. We used to get all passengers to fill out a customs form giving the airlines staff indemnity to open the luggage for customs if required. This meant we walked it through customs and placed it with the delivery company. I assume something similar happens elsewhere!

Quoting AirstairFear (Reply 5):
What happens if a passenger boards the aircraft, but then "realizes he forgot something" and hurriedly rushes back into the terminal before anyone can demand his name or seat number? Is it possible such behaviour _might_ slip by relatively unnoticed?

Cabin Crew at door would notice, security on the jetty or steps would notice, gate agent would notice! Far too many barriers for the person to get away with it and failsafe devices in operation!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9792 times:



Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Also, what puzzles me is how this "no bag without corresponding passenger" is applied at all.

I suspect that, in the event of delayed baggage, the bag is sent on the next aircraft only as long as it's verified that the passenger was on the first flight and reasonably expected their bag to be on the plane with them.

Quoting Traveladdict (Reply 3):
and they had an inside man working with the bags

Honestly, if they have an inside man, then they don't even need to worry about having a passenger with a ticket. They can come up with all sorts of interesting plans.


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9777 times:



Quoting Traveladdict (Reply 3):
Another thing I'm wondering is, if your bag goes missing and it's delivered to your hotel/house whatever the following day or 2 days later, nothing in that bag gets declared right, so someone could just bring any "forbidden" items they want, be it something very lethal or just something plain like certain foods and stuff not allowed eg in Australia... Is there a system to prevent all this?

As far as I know, at least in the US, any freight, which I assume would include lost luggage, from foreign countries must pass US customs before entering the country, with or without someone accompanying it.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9773 times:



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 9):
As far as I know, at least in the US, any freight, which I assume would include lost luggage, from foreign countries must pass US customs before entering the country, with or without someone accompanying it.

Luggage must be accompanied through CBP screening, whether it be the passenger or an airline employee.

As far as freight..... heheheh. Rarely screened.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineRailker From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9595 times:



Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 4):
.This process is only used for INT'L flights only

Actually, nope, same goes for Domestic flights too -- at least, here in Canada ...


User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8038 times:



Quoting Railker (Reply 11):


Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 4):
.This process is only used for INT'L flights only

Actually, nope, same goes for Domestic flights too -- at least, here in Canada ...

I work ramp and my airline not only allows for domestic traveling bags to go without the pax but all domestic standy-bys as well. International flts, if the pax is not onboard or does not travel with the flt, bag must get pulled. This is attempt to improve ontime performance but the security risk is so great. Needless to say, I do not agree with this policy. Do any other carriers have the same policies in place as we do???



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineTommy212 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7925 times:

A similar experience happened to me on Virgin America last december, i was flying between Seattle and San Francisco and i checked in for a 4pm flight at about 10am. there was another flight about midday but i wanted to go sight-seeing in the few hours i had in Seattle so checked my bag in and asked if i could leave the airport to see the city and she said thats fine (even though now i know in the UK you are not allowed to do that).

When i arrived in San Francisco that evening i was waiting at baggage reclaim expecting my bag and when it didnt turn up i asked at the lost baggage desk and found out the bad had arrived on the earlier flight even tho clearly still tagged for the 4pm flight and the man on the desk just said they just chuck them on the plane by destination regardless of flight number.


User currently offlineWeirdLinguist From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

How it is going to find its way back to FRA? or DTW?  Yeah sure. Wouldn't that be a bag-on person-not-on situation again? I totally understand why they pulled it, but the logistics here are comical.

User currently offlineBA84 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7270 times:
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Impossible? Fail-safe?

Nothing is impossible where human error is concerned.

There are unaccompanied bags every day.

You just don't hear about it.

BA84


User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7250 times:



Quoting Tommy212 (Reply 13):
When i arrived in San Francisco that evening i was waiting at baggage reclaim expecting my bag and when it didnt turn up i asked at the lost baggage desk and found out the bad had arrived on the earlier flight even tho clearly still tagged for the 4pm flight and the man on the desk just said they just chuck them on the plane by destination regardless of flight number.

That happens quit often. Its a dumb way to run an airline and most times your bag wouldn't of gone but it does happen. I mean, this is not only an issue concerning security but it also gives the ground crew doing the flt an inaccurate bag count as bags such as yours are not in the total count for the flt. Its a dumb way of taking care of bags but like I said, its done but only on domestic flts.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1024 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6539 times:



Quoting Traveladdict (Reply 3):
Another thing I'm wondering is, if your bag goes missing and it's delivered to your hotel/house whatever the following day or 2 days later, nothing in that bag gets declared right, so someone could just bring any "forbidden" items they want, be it something very lethal or just something plain like certain foods and stuff not allowed eg in Australia... Is there a system to prevent all this?

I had my luggage delayed many times, and at least twice it had been opened by customs (once in the USA). It had a little leaflet inside, saying that the suitcase had been opened by TSA. It pays having the TSA locks on the luggage, else you lose your lock in such a case...

Quoting Tonystan (Reply 7):
I worked in Baggage Tracing a few years ago for an Irish airline based in Dublin. We used to get all passengers to fill out a customs form giving the airlines staff indemnity to open the luggage for customs if required.

I never had to sign anything when I went to the lost luggage counter...

Cheers
micha


User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6465 times:

I would just like to suggest that forum members who have intimate knowledge of the baggage screening security process at our airports, restrain themselves from revealing too much of that information in this forum. While most of us here are airplane enthusiast, this is still a public forum and we do not know who else might be reading our post.


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlineSuprazachair From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6344 times:



Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 18):
I would just like to suggest that forum members who have intimate knowledge of the baggage screening security process at our airports, restrain themselves from revealing too much of that information in this forum. While most of us here are airplane enthusiast, this is still a public forum and we do not know who else might be reading our post.

I agree completely. No one on this board has a need to know anything regarding pax, baggage, or cargo security and screening procedures/requirements. You wanna know? Get an airline job.


User currently offlineAirstairFear From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5826 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 7):
Cabin Crew at door would notice, security on the jetty or steps would notice, gate agent would notice! Far too many barriers for the person to get away with it and failsafe devices in operation!

Assuming one stood in the jetway for a while rather than even going on board the aircraft, then the gate agent is really the only one in the mix. She may notice, but she does not have the authority to legally detain someone to determine who they were to have their bags pulled. The passenger could disappear in a busy terminal within seconds.

Ah well, mainly I was just asking what a horrible horrible inconvenience it would be for everyone else who has already boarded that aircraft. And keep in mind not a single law was broken here, AFAIK.



CAM-1: Aw #. We're gonna hit houses dude.
User currently offlineVHTJE From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5766 times:
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I flew earlier this year from RDU to LHR via BOS.

The RDU to BOS leg was on AA (actually American Eagle) and the BOS to LHR leg was on BA. They were ticketed separately - the BOS to LHR leg was an award ticket.

I checked my bag in at RDU all the way to LHR, then went to the Admiral's Club and... forgot to check the monitor. Result: I missed my flight - and it was entirely my fault - I was too busy on the internet to notice the time slipping.

American Airlines were absolutely wonderful (considering the fault was entirely mine), and put me on the direct AA RDU to LHR service which left about an hour and a half after my original flight.

They told me my bags had left RDU already and that they were likely to be offloaded by BA in BOS. They said not to worry, AA themselves would get it to LHR but that it might take 24 hours or so but in the interim they would let BA know what had happened. They said to check with AA groundstaff in LHR once I arrived.

I flew to LHR (arriving about 90 before my originally scheduled time), waited for hope against hope for my bags in the arrivals area but of course they didn't arrive. I then checked with the AA ground staff, who told me the bag would be sent to my home address in Cambridge one it had arrived.

I duly drove home and about four hours after I arrrived home there was a knock on my door and... my bag was delivered by a BA courier.

Outstanding service, indeed. But given the thread it begs the following questions:

1. Why wasn't my bag offloaded by AA staff at RDU when I missed my flight?
2. Why wasn't it offloaded by BA if I wasn't on that flight?

(None of this cost me a penny by the way. Absolutely outstanding service. I will never speak badly of AA - even the inflight service was suprisingly good, although the bed was awful)


User currently offlineWestjet!Eh! From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

I watched Airport (UK show) about situation. If the pax didn't show up at the gate, then the gate agent ordered the ramper to take his/her baggages out of the plane. That's the rule. It may affect the flight delay.

I thought most airlines know the international regulations but it doesn't make sense why LH carried the "non-pax" bags


User currently offlineLouA340 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

It has happened to me before. A flight that I was scheduled to fly on was overbooked and so I was bumped to the next flight. My luggage wasn't transfered to the later flight that I was re-booked on and was left in the original aircraft. It so happened that there was a mechanical error on my original aircraft and so my I departed and arrived at my destination before the original one with my luggage and so I had to wait an hour for my things when I arrived at my destination.
I was flying domestic and so I don't believe it was much of a big deal but think it probably would have delayed both flights to have had the bags removed from one to be put on the next flight. Especially since they were going to the same destination.



RyEng
User currently offlineARFFdude From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5229 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Not possible.

Sure about that? I was flying out of CLT a while ago and after boarding the aircraft, but before reaching my seat, I realized I left my sunglasses in the gate area, so I turned around, walked off, got them, and got back on. The FA even smiled at me as I was walking off, clearly going against the flow of traffic, didn't say anything...


25 Lincoln : Granted I've never been on an International flight and I assume that they would pay more attention in those cases, but... On one flight in the past 3
26 AirstairFear : So that's two stories of people who didn't even get more than a smile, obviously not even having to make an effort to evade anyone. Certainly sounds
27 Dartland : It would seem being bumped is an exception to most of the policy discussed above. I flew on CO last week from Europe to EWR and I volunteered to be bu
28 HAWK21M : Are you saying you went past the Aerobridge checkpost near the Aircraft door too? regds MEL.
29 LMML 14/32 : In my opinion, this is a careless remark and I don't think this agent had any idea of what he was talking about. This simply does not happen intentio
30 Lincoln : Again, the distinction needs to be made betweeen Domestic and International. In my experience (solely with US Domestic flights...but several hundred
31 Shamrock321 : This shouldnt but does happen all the time. I seen it happen last week on a US bound flight from DUB. The worst for it are the US carriers themselves
32 Shamrock321 : This shouldnt but does happen all the time. I seen it happen last week on a US bound flight from DUB. The worst for it are the US carriers themselves
33 Swatpamike : Hello All Ramp agents dont like it when you don't show up and we have to pull your bags or you decide not to travel for some reason. Then we have to g
34 FCA767 : Every suitcase should be 100% checked...the man could be suicidal and check his bomb in and get on too...so no matter what info you give about behind
35 Copter808 : The positive bag match is really an old concept and it's current validity is questionable. This was instituted in the "old" (pre Lockerbie) days befor
36 Ikramerica : Generally, the airline or authorities may choose to have baggage not go with the pax, but the pax may not knowingly fly this way nor be informed of i
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