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The Frontier/Midwest Thread  
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 17918 times:
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There have been a lot of threads about Frontier and/or Midwest, so I thought I'd provide an opportunity to collate some of them in one place.

I don't know if it will work. Some a.netters feel that their idea about almost anything will get lost in an omnibus thread, so they start one anyway, but I think it's worth the effort.

I'll kick it off with the good news from the Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/frontpage/ci_14073639

Denver Post: "Business Person of the Year: Frontier's Sean Menke

"Turnaround guy" fits pieces together"


it's a good article - and a thoroughly deserved award. There are some fun insights about his early career, including ripping up a passenger's ticket.

It does contain a provocative comment about the future::

"Aviation insiders say Menke has earned a reputation as "a turnaround guy," making him a sought-after person in the airline industry.

Menke brushes off such speculation, though he acknowledges he has been approached "to do a lot of different things." But, he added, "there is still work to be done" in integrating Frontier, Midwest and Republic."


So - what does he do after that work is done?  Smile

mariner


aeternum nauta
338 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17904 times:

The integration comment is certainly interesting, in that the operations of the two brands continue to become more and more mishmashed. When the F9 319s in MKE come up for repainting I wonder if they will be going into the YX paint, and I similarly wonder about the E-jets moving to DEN, or whether they will continue to run this kind of confusing mixed operation, with, as noted another thread, the RW, YX, and F9 brand all in operation within a single airline.

Additionally, looking at YX flights in the spring there seem to be a lot more 190s in the schedule. Just how many is RW getting in the coming year? And something I'm still wondering is whether the expanding E-jet ops in DEN will be 70s or 90s, as there is conflicting info from the YX and F9 websites. And heres to a happy start to the thread, may it live long and prosper.  bouncy 

Regards, Logan R.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17880 times:



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 1):
The integration comment is certainly interesting, in that the operations of the two brands continue to become more and more mishmashed. When the F9 319s in MKE come up for repainting I wonder if they will be going into the YX paint,

Why on earth would they continue to mix match the fleet? If anything, the YX planes will be going into F9 paint, as F9 is a stronger entity and brand than YX.

I think we will continue to see the branding ran as it is right now; just giving the brands time to be cross-recognized. Where (like DL/NW) when someone sees a YX plane, they think of F9 too, and vice versa. Once this branding is achieved, I think then the fleet will be merged into one color scheme, and I think it will be the F9 scheme. Gradual is the way to go, considering the fragile YX brand in it's key markets.



No info
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17843 times:

Bravo Zulu to SM.

Quoting Mariner (Thread starter):
So - what does he do after that work is done? Smile

I was going the write groom his replacement whenever that time rears its head. On a grander scale groom the industry. Historiically BoD woo these types of leaders. It appears SM has his legacy!



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17789 times:



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 1):

Additionally, looking at YX flights in the spring there seem to be a lot more 190s in the schedule. Just how many is RW getting in the coming year? And something I'm still wondering is whether the expanding E-jet ops in DEN will be 70s or 90s, as there is conflicting info from the YX and F9 websites

Hmm, I'm beginning to believe this is an issue with the YX website, as on ITAsoftware's site the flights are listed as E170s instead of 190s as per YX.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17760 times:
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Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 1):
Additionally, looking at YX flights in the spring there seem to be a lot more 190s in the schedule. Just how many is RW getting in the coming year?

As is presently known, there will be 6 x E190 additional to the present fleet and 3 x A320 in the first six months of 2010.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineA340crew From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17648 times:

I was looking at the YX timetables for MKE-BOS, and was surprised to see that their is an A319 (operated by frontier) for one of the flights next month. It will be a nice change to see Frontier's A319's in BOS.

User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17582 times:



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 2):
Why on earth would they continue to mix match the fleet? If anything, the YX planes will be going into F9 paint, as F9 is a stronger entity and brand than YX.

The next new/used 190 is supposed to show up in MKE tonight from paint and like all the rest is again painted in Midwest colors.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17511 times:

If Republic is committed to MKE they will rebrand the F9 flights as YX flights in MKE. We aviation nuts understand that it is a F9 flight and equipment. If Milwaukeans seen the flights as Frontier instead of Midwest they might not book with them as F9 does not have the following in MKE as does YX.


I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2824 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17488 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 8):
If Republic is committed to MKE they will rebrand the F9 flights as YX flights in MKE.

Why on earth does that follow? It makes no sense to state that. If Republic is committed to MKE, they will fly equipment there. What color the equipment is makes no difference.

I tested this thesis a few weeks ago when I was flying with my family. We were on a republic branded plane. No one except I noticed that there was not a animal on the tale - and that's F9's branding, which is far stronger then YX's.


User currently offlineAirbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17481 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 8):
If Republic is committed to MKE they will rebrand the F9 flights as YX flights in MKE. We aviation nuts understand that it is a F9 flight and equipment. If Milwaukeans seen the flights as Frontier instead of Midwest they might not book with them as F9 does not have the following in MKE as does YX.

So your saying that if Republic is committed to MKE, they will repaint the F9 Aircraft into YX that operate out of MKE?

I guess just when I think of that I think of NW/DL where DL re-did everything in MSP, DTW, MEM, and all the other airports into DL Branding. So are you saying that Republic should do that with YX and change all of F9 into YX like NW/DL is? Put Midwest branding throughout all the F9 only destinations? I'm not getting how that would work.



Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2441 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17457 times:



Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 7):
The next new/used 190 is supposed to show up in MKE tonight

How many E190s (aside from those moved to DEN) does YX currently have flying for them? Also, what kind of interiors are these incoming E190s going to have?



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlinePI731 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17426 times:

I really don’t get what Republic is doing with Frontier and Midwest branding?. Is it that hard to pick what brand they want to be? Or If their going to keep Frontier in DEN and Midwest in MKE, why aren’t they painting the aircraft accordingly . I can understand the 319’s in F9 colors in MKE till they can get more 319s,. But why aren’t the E90’s (in DEN) painted in F9 colors? They had to paint then anyway since they all are second hand aircraft when their received?

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17393 times:

I know this is probably a ridiculous question, but I thought I'd just throw it out there. Is there any chance we could see RP order/convert some orders into A321s? I fly their DEN-DCA frequently and it always seems packed...I'd imagine they get great yields and loads enough to justify it, but maybe I'm wrong.

User currently offlineBoydatageek From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17390 times:

Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 10):
Put Midwest branding throughout all the SA)">F9 only destinations? I'm not getting how that would work

The Ideal situation is the way that it is currently done. Two brands, and if someone AT the Airport asks, all that they need to be told is that the SAME company owns both airlines! If the service is good, it is a non-issue even after the flight.

At the point of purchasing the ticket, is when the brand matters, and with almost all flights having BOTH codes on them, the customer will book with their preffernece, (unless one is cheaper, which is itself an interesting strategy game.)

When I was consulting previously, we were furious because AA and AX (I think it was AX, although the code might be different) were being sold via Sabre, Travelocity, orbitz, etc. In retail, you want as much self space as possible, and cerial/soft drink/snack manufacturers will kill for more space. In the Airline example, The same thing applies. Listing the same product under each code maximizes the chances that that product wull be grabbed off the shelf.

In terms of pricing, one brand "legitimizes" the others price. Back in the days when AT&T had the phone center stores, one of the main purposes (in addition to servicing the phone lease base - in case anyone is old enough to remember that) was to have a location where the AT&T phones would be sold at MSRP. This was a VERY important service to SEARS who at that time was the premeir AT&T retailer, and the largest seller of phones in the USA. They typically would sell out phones for about 5% less than the AT&T Phone center, and the customers knew they where getting a good phone at a Good price! Why becasue it was even less than at AT&T!

Endicott Johnson Shoes also routinely did this. They would have in most malls two stores that "competed" against each other -- Father and Son and Endicott Johnson. No one knew they were essentially the same store selling almost identiacal shoes at the same price level. After "shopping" the mall, custmers would feel that they got a fair price.

Even if no "Price Games" are being played Going to one brand, reduces the shelf space which is not good.

Long live Midwest/Frontier.

[Edited 2009-12-27 19:43:40]

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17377 times:
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Just for the record, the Midwest route map does not yet include the Frontier international routes, but the Frontier map has the whole shebang:

Big version: Width: 500 Height: 500 File size: 110kb


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17370 times:

Wow, that route map has changed dramatically in the span of just 6 months. Truly amazing to see, quite impressive.

User currently offlinePI731 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 17333 times:

Having two different brands should be a big issue. They both offer two different in flight services. Personally, I would never by a ticket on Midwest today. Unless is was a flight on a Frontier 319. But then again, that’s not Midwest. The in flight Midwest service we all know and love is no longer. Now their like every other airline that offers pretty much nothing. Frontier, on the other hand has a great in flight service. If I flew bought a ticket on Frontier, thinking I'm flying Frontier and saw a Midwest E90 at my gate as my ride, I would be a little PO’d. And sorry to say, but Midwest is a glorified regional airline. I would think they would want everyone to forget about that.

User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17310 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 11):
How many E190s (aside from those moved to DEN) does YX currently have flying for them? Also, what kind of interiors are these incoming E190s going to have?

I think this next one is #11 but almost all of them fly out west now. MKE is pretty much 170's and 319's during the day now. A couple of 190's come through at night for MTC.

Also I saw something at work that said F9 is starting a crew base in MKE on 4/1/10.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17275 times:
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Quoting PI731 (Reply 17):
They both offer two different in flight services.

That is changing. They are working towards a seamless passenger experience, but that will take a little time.

It may get a little easier - or move a little faster - once they have a single payroll in January.

There have been a number of backroom issues, such as the separate IT platforms, but I believe that has been resolved.

And Delta had put handcuffs on their code share with Midwest, so it is only now that they are able to effect the full Frontier/Midwest code share.

They've said from the git-go that it would take more than a year for full integration and so far it has been three months.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17260 times:



Quoting PI731 (Reply 12):
I really don’t get what Republic is doing with Frontier and Midwest branding?. Is it that hard to pick what brand they want to be? Or If their going to keep Frontier in DEN and Midwest in MKE, why aren’t they painting the aircraft accordingly . I can understand the 319’s in F9 colors in MKE till they can get more 319s,. But why aren’t the E90’s (in DEN) painted in F9 colors? They had to paint then anyway since they all are second hand aircraft when their received?

Perhaps Midwest will be the "regional" brand (I use regional loosely) in that the Midwest brand will carry all the smaller A/C ops, while larger, mainline a/c will be under the Frontier brand. Bizarre, but . . . . .

Quoting Airport (Reply 13):
Is there any chance we could see RP order/convert some orders into A321s?

That would be an interesting move, however with Republic talking about "fleet renewal" at F9 with the C-Series, that would seem to show they are committed to the A32x line. (I may be able to dig up the article if I really need to). I think that if Republic decides to continue to grow the Arbii fleet that an A321 down the road could make sense, with a number of they're high-yield roots, or high-capacity vacation lines. I imagine it would involve little extra expenditure other than a small bump in the order price, and with a hub in DEN, range to do transcons (whether or not a legitimate ops issue) would be a non-issue, with it being able to complete all the missions with in the system that I can think of (I even doubt the Alaska routes would be a big issue, though one wonders if there would be enough traffic to warrant a 321). I feel that if F9 keeps the Airbus, then an A321 order down the road is fairly likely.

Quoting Boydatageek (Reply 14):


At the point of purchasing the ticket, is when the brand matters, and with almost all flights having BOTH codes on them, the customer will book with their preference, (unless one is cheaper, which is itself an interesting strategy game.)

Now THERE is an interesting thought. It seems like on any routes not a monopoly that this kind of effect would be discounted by the other airlines prices doing this, instead of the need for another division of the company to do it. At that point if there were say three airlines F9, YX and DL, and YX/F9 had the same price, but the DL fare was higher, the passengers would already be jumping at the better deal and simply choose the brand they liked better. The other exception here I can think of is the YX code share with Delta. It seems that these flights can only be booked through YX and not F9 (as in the DL codeshare has not been extended to Frontier as well). Are there plans to add this in later or what? It seems kind of strange to me that though they are essentially operating as one that the codeshare only applies to YX.

Quoting PI731 (Reply 17):
I would think they would want everyone to forget about that.

If BB and Republic are successful in targeting the same demographic it seems that F9 is for the pax will likely not notice that the plane is an RJ, being that it has one of the better cabin sizes out there and has that big jet 'look and feel'. Thus for the infrequent or fare-based fliers, it should, IMO, make little to no difference. The only thing most of them will remember is the cookie, which is still there. Service in line with most other majors should have no effect either as the service many expect is not very high. While it may take some adjustment, I believe many of the YX loyals will get used to the 'glorifies regional' after trying out some other airlines, and finding that the others are more or less the same (in service and price) and that they really love the brand (branding is more than many think). This of course applies only to the more frequent fliers, rather than those who look only at the fare.

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 18):

Also I saw something at work that said F9 is starting a crew base in MKE on 4/1/10.

It wouldn't surprise me as there seems to be some pickup in F9 MKE flying in the spring. As the two airlines continue to become more intertwined, I would not be surprised to see a Republic base in DEN (if there is not one already).

Regards, Logan R.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17239 times:
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Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 20):
(I even doubt the Alaska routes would be a big issue, though one wonders if there would be enough traffic to warrant a 321

In high summer, certainly there would be the traffic. Frontier usually has to add some frequency in that time, although the new FAI service may reduce that need.

As to range, the A321 can do, as you say, just about anything on the route map, and if ANC or FAI are at the outer edges, then the new sharklets should fix that. They add 150 nm on the A320 - I haven't heard a number for the A321.

As to whether Republic sticks with Airbus remains to be seen - I guess it will depend on the deal - but I believe BB has just been, or is soon going, to Toulouse to discuss the future needs.

But a lot of people picked up on his remarks about extended range, beyond what is presently possible.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17221 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):

As to range, the A321 can do, as you say, just about anything on the route map, and if ANC or FAI are at the outer edges, then the new sharklets should fix that. They add 150 nm on the A320 - I haven't heard a number for the A321.

That's quite the bump. It's too bad it can't be done as an after market mod at the moment, or else I can see quite a few airlines jumping on board. How far along is the cutoff in production is the cut off to decide that an airline wants sharklets on? I had heard that Air NZ will #1 on those, but I don't know what year that delivery is (I seem to vaguely remember 2011). In the FA thread there was the mention of the need for an A320 fuel stop on the FAI route, though I don't know how much credence to give that comment.

Regards, Logan R.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17209 times:
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Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 22):
In the FA thread there was the mention of the need for an A320 fuel stop on the FAI route, though I don't know how much credence to give that comment.

The A320 might - might - need a fuel stop on DEN-ANC/FAI, depending on the payload, weather, etc.

United used to fly the A320 regularly on DEN-ANC, but I believe theirs was a two class configuration with less overall pax, so, I dunno, slightly less payload, perhaps?

All you might want to know about sharklets is here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...iver-3.5-lower-fuel-burn-from.html

Yes, Air New Zealand is first cab off the rank for them, and Airbus says late 2012. They become available on the A321 six months later and on the A319 six months after that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17178 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):


Yes, Air New Zealand is first cab off the rank for them, and Airbus says late 2012. They become available on the A321 six months later and on the A319 six months after that.

I didn't see in the article, does anybody know why it's being introduced on the A321 and 319 later. It seems like it could all be done at once with such similar beasts . . . . .



Just say NO to scabs.
25 Enilria : Dont know if this is covered elsewhere, but I am hearing that effective 12/31 many of the F9 VPs are being let go. Among them: Anne Block (VP HR/Infli
26 Legacytravel : What I am trying to say is that Frontier has very little name recognition. If they would eliminate the Midwest branding it would be a blow to their M
27 Mariner : At least one of those people has decided to retire. SM has written movingly of his relationship with that person, with no sense of "being sacked." Bu
28 Legacytravel : Did he/she decide to retire or was retirement thrust upon them? In my last days at Master Lock Co. There was one executive officer that decided to "r
29 Mariner : Given the openly stated relationship between SM and that person, I think it is simply mischievous to assume the latter A lot of people saw the latter
30 BOSSAN : Aviation Partners has to test and certify the winglet on each model of aircraft before it can be retrofitted. For instance, currently their Boeing wi
31 Rampart : Do you mean bizarre as in a former stand-alone airlne becoming a regional carrier? It's certainly been done before (to varying degrees of success). O
32 GentFromAlaska : Depending on a variety of factors, the shortest direct flight between DEN- FAI is 2107 nautical miles. DEN-ANC-FAI if my number crunching is correct
33 Lrdc9 : Essentially yes, but in the sense that it would still be an integral part of F9 while being the brand used for smaller aircraft, but not necessarily
34 TVNWZ : Midwest has always been a glorified regional airline. It has the loyalty it has today because of it. It has never been an airTran or Southwest. It ha
35 Post contains links Mariner : Yes. And look'ee here: FL To Announce Crew Base For MKE Tomm. (by Rumorboy Dec 28 2009 in Civil Aviation) Rumors that Airtran is also opening a crew
36 JBo : Very true. Midwest never pushed to be a national carrier. They were just a very large regional airline with its own regional airline (and boy do I mi
37 Legacytravel : Logan, I can tell you from experience that the RP customer service is nothing like YX even with the cookie. I flew a E-170 last year from LGA-MKE at
38 Legacytravel : Mariner thanks for clarifing that. I was just reading between the coporate speak from my past experiences. Mark in MKE
39 Post contains links Mariner : No probs. There is an excellent article in the Denver Post which describes the journey into and through bankruptcy, and illustrates the close relatio
40 FutureFO : TPG does not sit on the board at Republic. Wexford Capital owns both RAH and F9. So in reality there is all ready been some intertwining. Also we have
41 Post contains links Mariner : You might want to check that: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-deal-with-tpg-to-buy-midwest.html "TPG has also secured the right to nominate a
42 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I thought 3,600 nautical miles was on the high side, Then I started second guessing myself. The 319 seats approx 124 pax whereas the A320 seats rough
43 FutureFO : It was never disclosed to us that that would be the case. Intersting.
44 TVNWZ : My experience...22,000 miles last year on YX...totally opposite. Everyone was very nice and gracious. I could tell no difference between Republic cre
45 Post contains links and images Mariner : I'm not sure why that would be, it was in all the press releases about the Midwest purchase. But I'm scratching my head about Wexford: This next arti
46 N7371f : Mariner...come on...I appreciate your ability to see 99.9% of all F9 and now RP developments as positive. But trying to put a positive spin on clearl
47 Mariner : It is how the world in which I made my career functions. By and large, we don't know what job longevity is and most - at executive level - do not des
48 Enilria : See below Then I guess Menke can't stay unless Bedford quits, oh wait he's still there. Your logic is non-sense. I know for a fact that you are wrong
49 Mariner : I've said it from the git-go. Mr. Menke will stay as long as the job is interesting to him. I have also suggested that having been to the edge he mig
50 F9mechanic : From my understanding they will use eight of the planes to fly under the Continental Connection brand starting in May.
51 Lrdc9 : Well that's shiny new news to me. Where did you hear this, as I had seen nothing about this.
52 Post contains links Mariner : I don't know F9mechanics source, but several people have heard it and it's in Wiki: http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...onnection&cd=1&hl=en&ct=cl
53 TheGreatChecko : Someone added that to the Wikipedia page and it's a popular rumor around Denver parts, however, nothing official has been said concerning what will h
54 FRNT787 : Not Really, they do different jobs. Menke was kept around because he successfully ran was is now the Republic branded ops at F9. Ted Christie is a ve
55 Knope2001 : I logged 42 segments on YX this year and have flown enough to be an elite level flyer for years. I have to agree with TVNWZ. Over the years I've had
56 Pilotfox : Anyone have a time frame as to when F9 will be starting up their heavy mx in MKE?
57 USPIT10L : Good to see some of the Republic crews going above and beyond. Early on, I heard some RP crews complain about the cookies, even though YX's rules hav
58 TVNWZ : It's what happens every time a company is bought, sold, merged, combined, or whatever. the dynamics change dramatically. What an executive may be goo
59 Airbusaddict : What is the chance of seeing expansion on Lynx and moving some routes to A319 or changing frequencies so that they add more capacity to DEN. What is t
60 Enilria : We agree there. I think his time is short. I'd look to see when the options he got a few months ago vest. They are now worth a fair chunk. They proba
61 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Brett Snyder at The Cranky Flier posted an entry on his blog (with a few photos) about his recent LAX-MKE-IND flight over the holidays during the stor
62 Post contains links Mariner : That's a gross over-simplification, starting with SM - he's new to Republic. Who is in charge of revenue production? It isn't a Republic person. Who
63 FRNT787 : Or its neither...they are picking the best from all three companies...as I said earlier...but again, why are you so convninced that the F9 management
64 TVNWZ : Actually, it is about chemistry with the CEO.
65 Scutfarcus : I'm also concerned about the confusion regarding the frequent flyer program. Right now, according to their respective websites, Midwest still has a re
66 Lrdc9 : I would tend to agree that that may doom it, but it would be nice to see a low cost(ish) US member of skyteam, especially with CO's recent departure,
67 Mariner : It is BB's stated intention to join an alliance eventually, and he named Skyteam. I guess he knows what the requirements for membership are mariner
68 Enilria : Hard to imagine how that will improve financial performance since the CASM of those aircraft at that haul is as much as double the Q400? I think you
69 Sideflare75 : Sometime early next year. March/April time frame from what I have heard.
70 FRNT787 : Nothing we say will convince you otherwise, so this is my last response on the subject. You are, seemingly desperately, trying to read as much negati
71 Mariner : Since they haven't done it, it is neither here nor there. But I am - again - somewhat shocked to see you defending Lynx and the Q400, given some of y
72 Beryllium : I side with those who would not give the "old" F9 executive team (Menke, Christie, et al.) that much of a praise. After all, by the time RAH stepped i
73 BOACCunard : Can someone elaborate a bit on F9/YX's relationship with DL? And will F9 be ending its relationship with FL?
74 Knope2001 : (1) Midwest and Northwest announced joint frequent flyer reciprocity back in early 2006. This was more than a year before the TPG / NW ownership bid
75 Rampart : You probably need to become more aware of the reasons and history. A leadership team that inherits existing problems, manages to survive through both
76 Knope2001 : Here's some information regarding various comments about Midwest's product By early February, the E190 fleet being used for YX routes will grow from 2
77 Enilria : Again, you miss the point. As you know the Lynx flights are low load factor which to me is indicative of poor performance. IF, as you suggested, they
78 TVNWZ : You are quite over thinking it. In my experience, personal chemistry has been a main ingrediant. But, as I also said prior, it probably is this: The
79 Mariner : I don't miss your point at all. They have not said they will replace the Lynx flights with E170/E190 - that is was purely my speculation. They haven'
80 Beryllium : The point is that fierce competition, fuel crisis and credit crisis were (and are) there for everybody, not just F9. And those who survived through t
81 FRNT787 : They are respected (and that is by industry professionals, not just a.net members) because of their actions during BK...as Rampart says, you need to
82 BOACCunard : Thanks for the explanation. So, as I thought, both the DL and FL relationships seem up in the air.
83 Post contains links Beryllium : Their actions during BK were motivated by the quite obvious desire to keep their lucrative executive jobs (positions) and fat paychecks for as long a
84 N7371f : Are you drunk? Seriously...I don't think a single point you make has any merit to it. Frontier management wanted Republic so they all could keep thei
85 TVNWZ : +1. But, he's right about one thing. Management wanted to keep their jobs. But, why wouldn't they? Just like frontline employees want to keep theirs.
86 FRNT787 : Still going pretty much the same as it has been, so it must be viable. Most people said this before and during BK. You are one of the few still sayin
87 Beryllium : No, not yet. The Happy New Year celebration starts tomorrow... As for the "point"... it is quite possible that, as you say, not a single point I make
88 Enilria : That was your theory that the E170 and E190 might replace the Q400 and its not the first time you have asserted it. If you are going to toss out a th
89 Beryllium : Exactly my point. The need for massive changes in the executive ranks of F9 became a matter of extreme urgency, because it is going pretty much the s
90 Mariner : But if he was, as you imply, cooking the books - misleading Republic - I can't think of any reason they would want him. mariner
91 FRNT787 : Not keeping a management team (especially when you already have one) does not mean that the plan is not viable, or bad. It means that they are not ne
92 Beryllium : RAH management team has a lot more work to do now than before, when they were just regional traffic feeders for the "big guys". Now they have to take
93 FRNT787 : hhhmmmm.....then shouldn't they keep some of the F9 managers...?????? Oh wait, they are. Go to rjet.com, and read their press releases throughout the
94 JA : As long as they promise not to stab the American members in the back, Frontier & Midwest go to SkyTeam. As it stands now, the Airtran alliance is no
95 Beryllium : If those managers do a good job, then yes - they definitely should keep them. However, managers, even the brightest ones, usually have a long way to
96 FRNT787 : You are completely missing that some of the F9 (and YX) executives are being kept. And I cannot assert enough that you are trying to read too much in
97 BOACCunard : American member, not members. DL is the only American member of SkyTeam (unless you include AM). Anyway, I guess they would go in as associate member
98 Post contains links Mariner : It is not impossible that they would introduce a premium cabin. Already Frontier is moving to Stretch - the increased seat pitch in the first few row
99 BOACCunard : I agree. But F9/YX still wouldn't really fit the profile of a full member. The only alliance where it would is Star and obviously that is not an opti
100 Mariner : I'm slightly surprised he wants to pursue it - I'm not big on the alliances - but is there some reason why Oneworld wouldn't work? mariner
101 BOACCunard : It's not impossible, but it seems less likely to me. The biggest reason is that oneworld has never admitted airlines whose networks overlap the way F
102 Mariner : Fair enough, thanks. The alliances are grey area to me. I try to avoid them, so I've never really been studied their imperatives. mariner
103 BOACCunard : I think oneworld has been the least aggressive alliance in attracting new members - or inviting them. It sees itself as a sort of premium alliance, I
104 Mariner : Well, well I might wish for individual code shares with specific airlines but if an alliance is what BB wants to do, I won't argue the toss. And SkyT
105 Beryllium : F9/YX is going to join an alliance?... oh, please In order to join an alliance (be it SkyTeam, Star, or oneworld) they have to possess something in t
106 Lrdc9 : I'll venture to say additional presence in more US markets not well served by DL and feed from those markets to larger int'l connection points such a
107 Rampart : First, my impression that AS is frequently seen as a code-share "whore" is a completely deragatory reference that implies nothing but sour grapes fro
108 Rampart : I wanted to add this but my previous post was getting long, and it's not a response directly to a previous post. I've had this idea that there may be
109 Rjnut : My concern is if F9 rids of most q400's and replaces with EMB170-190's, then their presence in markets like OMA,OKC,TUL-DEN, for examplbe pits WN 737'
110 KingCavalier : But an argument can be made that F9 is already at a customer perception disadvantage operating a prop vs. a WN jet. Any of those markets that you lis
111 Spokemd : I think it is interesting that neither brand serves Canada at all at the present time though both have in the past.
112 KingCavalier : I know. F9 served both YYC and YVR and never could get Canada to work. YX served YYZ from MKE, but that route is gone. It would seem several Eastern
113 MSYtristar : I hope Mariner realizes that you can get to Whitehorse on Greyhound Canada. It's only a three or four day trip IIRC. I think both of those will come
114 Mariner : You think it is wrong to be aspirational? "We want to create an airline that would be accepted by one of the big alliances." What is your problem wit
115 I380North : I like to see that too. Hop in when you like, hop out when you misaligned. B6 and VX are already showing superior customer service compared to the bi
116 Flyinryan99 : Do you think the 170s are going to be moved to DEN or increased flying or new markets when this happens? I wish the Midwest brand would come to TOL..
117 Beryllium : No, I don't think it is wrong, and I never said that. I am just posting my thoughts, which may be different from the viewpoints of others. Do you hav
118 Mariner : Not at all. I'm trying to establish your position, which I still don't understand. mariner
119 FRNT787 : As does F9/YX. Equally good to VX, imo. Bad mood lighting and a bunch of Appletinis does not make a significantly better product. The only thing they
120 TVNWZ : Flew them once. Just another airline in my experience. But, hey, it takes a lot when you are racking up 160-K miles to get my attention each year.
121 Beryllium : My position towards F9/YX is quite neutral. I do not work neither for that organization, nor for any of its competitors. I am just throwing my though
122 FRNT787 : My thoughts exactly (while I certainly dont travel as much as you). In my opinion, the crew can make all the difference. And F9 has the best as far a
123 Knope2001 : They did state a couple months back that the E170's were not coming to Denver....although things can change. The E190's will displace some E170's on
124 Mariner : Indeed it is. And on at least one point, you and I are in complete agreement: I'm just puzzled that you seemed hostile to the aspiration. mariner
125 Atlwest1 : I still think even a fifth option might come into play. I have said it before and ill say it again. F9/YX would be perfectly complimentary in a merger
126 Beryllium : No-no. I was not hostile. All I said was that I just don't see F9/YX as a member of any of the 3 existing major airline alliances (because of the rea
127 Enilria : You misread if you think I implied he cooked the books. I'm simply questioning decisions that apparently are being made or are rumored to be made sho
128 Mariner : Oh yes. For such a one moose town, I'm surprised I know as much as I do. I am intrigued that one of the German airlines sends a weekly widebody to Wh
129 BOSSAN : A report by Tourism Yukon says Germany is their largest overseas market and that Germany and Switzerland together supplied about 10,000 visitors in 2
130 Airbusaddict : Free it up for what? -airbus
131 TheGreatChecko : I don't know if Utah and Arizona can beat the 18-24 hours of sunlight that Whitehorse and other nearby areas offer in the summer. It free's up the Q4
132 KingCavalier : So there is a dedicated Q400 spare aircraft in DEN. It will sit and be used as needed for mechanicals, etc.
133 BOSSAN : Whitehorse will have long days but it won't have as intense sunlight as southern Utah and Arizona (about 30% less solar energy per day in June/July,
134 BOACCunard : Germany is also the largest outbound tourism market in the world, so it is not a surprise that Germany would be any place's largest overseas market.
135 Mariner : I don't think that Frontier/Midwest is going to serve Whitehorse - YXY - from DEN or MKE in any foreseeable future. It is, as a I say, a one-moose to
136 Enilria : NEWS Hearing, third daily flight to Denver in Detroit and Tucson starts March 2. That would imply FNT will not be gaining DEN service.
137 KingCavalier : This will be good news if it comes true. What a/c type? I guess it will get loaded Saturday night? I didn't know there was discussion about FNT servi
138 MUWarriors : In the summer there are usually at least twice weekly flights between FAI and YXY on Air North. Any chance there'll be a DTW to MKE flight in the fut
139 Knope2001 : I saw that single Frontier E170 flight on DEN-OMA-DEN and wondered what it was about. It originates in DEN and all the plane does is that single trip
140 Mariner : I should have been more clear. To my knowledge there are no flights to YXY from the contiguous 48. Apologies to Alaskans mariner
141 MASTYC : All that doggone vacation time. Yes DTW gets their third flight back on a 190 as well as a third for TUS. I find it strange that they are adding TUS
142 BOACCunard : Not just that. People in France have an enormous amount of vacation time and yet they tend to travel overseas very little compared to many other nati
143 Enilria : It's confirmed. YX is in FNT. There has been speculation that FNT or CAK could see YX/F9 service consolidated because WN is at DTW and CLE. That does
144 Mariner : Nor I. I don't know where that is coming from. I can't think why Frontier would start DEN-FNT. mariner
145 N7371f : It's a very remote possibility...but it could be a repositioning in DEN that also involves United Express. RP's Shuttle America does fly E70's out of
146 Beryllium : I think YX brand will disappear in not so distant future. It is already a pretty much virtual airline, which does not even conduct its own flight ope
147 FutureFO : We cannot bounce the 170 certificate to certificate. The generic aircraft are all primarily on the RW certificate. There are a couple left on the S5 c
148 Azstar : March is actually TUS busiest month. In 2006 F9 operated 4 Airbus flights with a load factor around 90%. Several years ago they had a late afternoon
149 Post contains links Flyinryan99 : I was told Frontier was not going to serve the DTW market and FNT or TOL. I think they will stay in DTW for the volume of passengers they fly. If I r
150 Mariner : I'm just a bit confused about FNT and TOL. As you note, they've served DTW for some time, and with some success, but I have never heard either FNT or
151 FRNT787 : Heres a new thought (for me at least). What destinations do we know will begin seeing E190 service this year (2010 already!), and is there any specula
152 Uncgso : Hey all. There has been some speculation in the Carolinas thread about Republic buying the OH maintenance hangar at GSO and opening a crew/maintenance
153 Malaysia : Well in the other thread about the paycuts and the broken promises, I knew this would happen cause its Republic! they have low pay scales and always h
154 Post contains links Mariner : I'm not sure how you are arriving at that. The answer is there within the original article - no worker will receive a pay cut but top pay will be fro
155 Flyinryan99 : They have never been considered heavily at all...was just saying they are not going to serve either market while serving DTW. As I've said, I think D
156 Enilria : The point is that in Cleveland and Detroit YX/FL both serve all four airports with each serving one of their now two hubs. That doesn't make a lot of
157 Enilria : From another thread... This would imply to me that F9 is not going to be Continental Connection because I don't think they'd move Colgan to IAH with n
158 FRNT787 : Colgan was already at IAH I believe. This could be a redeployment of an aircraft on a failed route, or Colgan moving in another a.c. to fulfill a pre
159 Enilria : Do you agree that it would be highly unlikely for that to happen if Colgan is moving Q400s to IAH?
160 FRNT787 : Quite honestly I didn't know what to make of Lynx moving planes to a CO operation as a rumor posted and quickly removed from Wikipedia doesn't hold a
161 USPIT10L : I've heard from a few sources at work that 2x MCI flights and 1x DEN flight could be coming to PIT reasonably soon. Any word on that level? Knope2001,
162 YXwatcherMKE : I don't think that YX will be leaving FNT any time soon. They have gone from 2 flights daily a year ago to 4 flights a day now. Also YX has very good
163 Enilria : I, at least, thought the Q400s were going to EWR because they had some unique runway use options. I didn't know they had announced IAH initially. Apa
164 FRNT787 : The initial plan was EWR, and the original 15 are operating there (CO mentions the very runway issues you discuss). I believe when Colgan exercised o
165 YXwatcherMKE : Well Flint Residents may not fly out of FNT, But, they do a fairly go deal of business otherwise there would not have AE, DL connect, FL, CO Connect
166 Enilria : But QX has had a lot of reliability issues as did SAS. Not attacking the plane, just saying I'd expect CO to watch it for a while before signing up a
167 FRNT787 : I get what you are saying, I would think that the operations in EWR give them a good idea of what is going on with mx issues. That is torture
168 MKENut : Neither is Michael Moore from Flint. I think YX will remain in Flint because they are established there.
169 Azstar : It's not overplayed for F9. The Q400 are notoriously undependable. Ask the folks who try to fly F9 from Fargo. The cancellation rate has been triple
170 Enilria : True, but most of Flint does look like that. He an anti-capitalist who is rich from making movies. Hard to understand that. True that. I just read he
171 Post contains links Enilria : DL Adds SLC-FAI (follows F9's DEN-FAI) (by Enilria Jan 4 2010 in Civil Aviation) Interesting in that DL is now retaliating against F9/RJET/YX's fligh
172 Enilria : BTW, based upon current schedules FL will pass YX on departing seats from MKE by July. Currently FL has 133k/month to YX's 164k. In July FL will have
173 Rampart : How long have CO been reintroducing Dash 8s now? CO is a big airline, I would assume they measured the risks, and still went for the props in a big w
174 TVNWZ : Everyone takes some sort of "welfare."
175 Knope2001 : Do the AirTran totals include Skywest operating as FL*? Do the Midwest totals include Frontier operating as YX?[Edited 2010-01-04 13:26:43 by knope20
176 FRNT787 : I was referring to the passenger avoidance factor. I fail to understand the majority of things about that man, first and foremost how so many can sta
177 N7371f : Some food for thought regarding Wiki...Someone has posted on Mesaba Aviation that all of the Saab 340B's are being retired. That's simply not true. De
178 Mke717spotter : Are there still any OO CRJs left flying with YX? If so, anyone know the date when that flying wraps ups?
179 Enilria : The Q400 and Dash 8 are very different. QX can attest to that. In both cases I pulled the marketing code FL and YX. So if in OAG the flight is market
180 Post contains links Mariner : A small thing, but they have now applied to the DOT for Republic (and dba Midwest) to code share on all the Frontier Mexican routes: If anyone is inte
181 MKE717spotter : I've noticed they're still showing 717s in YX's TV commercials here in MKE.
182 Mcg : Given that this is the Frontier/Midwest thread I want to comment on a recent Frontier/Midwest flight I took. I flew F9 1509 DEN - GEG. I bought the ti
183 Pilotfox : The last of the OO YX flights ended on Dec 30/31. All YX connect flights are being flown by Chautauqua. With this switch over there are several ex Un
184 ScottB : Colgan is already at IAH, but they're only operating Saabs there. Colgan is currently operating out of Terminal A's North Concourse; I'd be surprised
185 FRNT787 : They do have Qs heading to IAH. I am of the impression that is what the 15 exercised options are for, but 1 may head to EWR to replace the frame from
186 SkyguyB727 : Midwest Connect ground staff are now mainline F9 employees. The Midwest Connect staff in my local airport just got their Frontier badges. I wonder if
187 FRNT787 : That is the current plan, but alot of F9 employees are unhappy, because the F9 scale will freeze while the RAH/YX scale catches up...so a firm decisi
188 Mariner : As I said in another thread, there are sound financial reasons for keeping the brands separate - at the moment - and I doubt it will change until the
189 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : http://media.frontierairlines.com/ar....cfm?article_id=5175&view_id=1290& Given the title of the press release I wonder if this F9 way of poking at WN
190 USPIT10L : I was thinking the route would be flown by E170s, and DEN would be F9 A319s.
191 Post contains links Mariner : Aren't they just playing Southwest's game? Southwest singled out Colorado: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9476020 "Southwest Dangles Fre
192 GentFromAlaska : I see, just some Valentines Love!
193 Post contains links Mariner : A good piece in the Denver post abut Lynx, the future of which is still not clear: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_14155033 DP: "Western cities
194 Post contains links Mariner : There's also an interesting analysis of traffic patterns at DRO in the Durango Herald: http://durangoherald.com/sections/Ne...08/2009_airport_traffic_
195 Dfanucci : That would be my guess. My in-laws have retired in Durango and it is a lovely place. Our last visit a couple months ago, I got into a talk with on of
196 Enilria : I get the impression that BB is not a fan of Lynx. I can only attribute his reasons to the fact that Republic has moved out of the prop business unde
197 Enilria : BTW, this kind of thing is very interesting. Carriers have sales because they do not have enough bookings. This is a very aggressive program for Unite
198 Mariner : Well - yes. He's said so several times and I think canceling the options was a fairly strong clue. Although he has also said he is interested in cont
199 Jreuschl : Mark Belling, a radio host in Milwaukee, has info that they are considering dropping one of the names. I know you may think who's this random radio ho
200 Mariner : Yes again. FWIW I've long believed that Mr. Kelly is determined that Southwest be at least #2 at DEN - and perhaps #1 - and he isn't going to let som
201 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I was just looking over the BNA flight arrival schedule for today http://www.nashintl.com/flight_info/Default.aspx attempting to see how may flights F
202 YXwatcherMKE : I checked F9's schedule for BNA to SNA there is nothing n/s or direct. However, SNA to BNA there is the Flight #234 n/s as on the BNA schedule. Not s
203 LoneStarMike : Check again. There's no nonstop Frontier flight from SNA to BNA. Flight 234 is a direct flight between SNA & BNA with the intermediate stop being DEN
204 Enilria : It appears to me that is exactly what RJET is doing in MKE, although he is pulling capacity from DEN to do it. BTW, I know the A320s are coming, but
205 YXwatcherMKE : I stand Corrected, my bad.
206 Mariner : It has always been my understanding that the 3 (new) x A320's (and the 6 x E190's) are additional aircraft, not replacement aircraft. I don't have it
207 Onaclearday : And, indeed, Frontier appeared ready to emerge from Chapter 11 as a different airline--an airline with a formula for making money. Seemingly from day
208 Mariner : But with no money. No one else was ready to back Frontier to emerge, except Perseus, and if Frontier had emerged under those terms it would have been
209 FRNT787 : I highly doubt BB is the only one making decisions....
210 OnAClearDay : That's true. And thankfully, BB and Republic stepped in and provided the financial backing to keep Frontier flying. If WN had won the bidding process
211 Mariner : I believe that one of the reasons - perhaps the most important reason - they are keeping the brands separate is so that, financially, they can do exa
212 Post contains images KingCavalier : I was recently on a YX E190 and grabbed the My Midwest magazine in the seat back pocket. The following is the welcome message from Bryan Bedford in th
213 Brons2 : Flew F9 AUS-DEN-SNA and back last week. It was an OK experience, the liveTV was nice on the way back as that meant I could watch the football playoffs
214 Enilria : Again, I don't care about the Frontier that was, I care about Frontier surviving. Their strategy baffles me and I don't see it being strong enough to
215 Mariner : If you don't care about the past, then why do you keep comparing now to the past? mariner
216 Post contains links Jetmatt777 : Not sure what the RP bird is doing flying into OKC? I think the legs for the MCO service begin in OMA, and on Friday morning. Are they flying it in to
217 Knope2001 : You paint this as if they are slashing Denver and flooding Milwaukee. That's your narrative, but these stats are hardly overwhelming support of that
218 TheGreatChecko : It appears to be an aircraft substitution for Lynx.
219 Post contains links and images Pilotfox : For those YX followers, N812ME ex YX MD-81 was parked up at the GA ramp here in MKE tonight. Looks like it is now registered to MAPLE LEAF 48006 LLC f
220 Post contains links MKENut : Article in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. A panel that represents 4 airlines talked about MKE... They were AirTran Airways, American Eagle Airlin
221 Mcg : The interesting things about the seating charts are: Some of the 190's have first class, how do i get seated there? No A318 shown.
222 MKENut : You can buy the seat during booking... I paid 50 bucks and picked my seat a few weeks back for a flight in March.
223 Knope2001 : Those are "Signature" seats, and on Midwest Airlines flights you get them by paying an upgrade fee. The page was set up, and first used, when no MIdw
224 Mariner : Knock me down with a feather, there are rumors that SM is leaving. mariner
225 FRNT787 : It makes sense if he got a better offer, or if he feels much of his work there is done, and wants to move on. I could see the first being true, but I
226 TheGreatChecko : WTF Not good... Not good...
227 Enilria : How many times have I predicted that? 20 times, 30 times? That will be the death knell for the remaining HQ staff in DEN. I had heard he was going to
228 MaverickM11 : Not a rumor!
229 Post contains links MUWarriors : Confirmed. End of Q1, here's the press release: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...ons-integration-plan,1120700.shtml The Nov.-Dec. magazine I sa
230 Enilria : It's done. It says that they will have a single frequent flyer program in the next few months. I predicted that a while ago. With one program it is de
231 JA : He is resigning without a destination? That's ODD.
232 Enilria : This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. They had better announce somebody soon. Frankly, there should be a President of Branded Operations position and at least
233 Mariner : LOL. Those may be the truest words you have ever posted here. I wonder if he has to give the million dollar plus signing bonus back? mariner
234 MaverickM11 : Wasn't that an import from AC?
235 TheGreatChecko : Menke is a very smart man, I'm sure he's just trying to figure out which multimillion dollar offer to take. Give it a week or so. Checko
236 Enilria : BB doesn't have the right experience for this. I expected there had to be some bad blood from SM cancelling the RJET agreement in 2008. Additionally
237 Atlwest1 : I hope that his leaving doesn't mean the weaking of Denver. Den is a Great hub for F9. Honestly I see the brands being combined it just makes sense, t
238 Enilria : He was at AC, but F9 was the only USA airline to do it. He probably has a no compete clause so he may not go to an airline, plus he won't easily move
239 Mariner : Why? That was critical to Republic acquiring Frontier. Without that, it may not have happened. I think I prefer the view of it that I have previously
240 TheGreatChecko : Also, there aren't too many airlines that can pay what he is worth these days. If I were him, I'd go find some other hospitality company that needs a
241 Mariner : We know he had offers from other airlines before signing with Republic. If there is a no-compete clause, I'd be interested to know the terms of it. D
242 KingCavalier : Except it was an excellent business decision made at the time, and BB has since stated he would've done the same thing had he been in Sean's shoes at
243 Enilria : Business makes strange bedfellows, but I know BB and SM did not get along famously. People often remember the negative event more than the positives
244 Mariner : They got along well enough to dream up a remarkable plan together. They got along well enough for SM to believe that he could work with BB - he did n
245 Loggat : It wouldn't surprise me if SM and Wayne Heller (RAH COO) butted heads just too many times already in SM's short tenure at RAH and got out before he wa
246 Dfanucci : Wow. Just Wow. I have screamed about WN giving it's customers options and in reading that thread it looks as if that is exactly what they intend on d
247 Post contains links JoePatroniYX : SM is leaving in April, just announced http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_14191634
248 Jreuschl : Did they forget to sell some seats?
249 Mariner : I'm a bit schizophrenic at this point. It isn't surprising to me that SM is leaving - I just had not expected it so soon. I thought a year or two. Th
250 C152driver : That's surprising. Like Mariner, I didn't expect it to happen this soon. I also hear there are changes afoot in the IT department. Personally, I thin
251 N7371f : Something not mentioned to this point in regards to the announcement - all executive management going to Indy. As I had questioned much earlier on in
252 Mariner : You got it. But that was known months ago. BB publicly said (Denver Post?) that the Frontier HQ would remain in Denver for as long as SM was with the
253 Loggat : Also, (not sure if this is general knowledge, I don't have time to read through the whole thread), Ted Christie (F9 CFO) is leaving at the end of Janu
254 C152driver : Very true. The thinking was that since Frontier was a full-fledged airline with marketing, reservations, etc. and Republic was simply an aircraft ope
255 AirFrnt : Not a good sign for Republic at all.
256 Hiflyer : Apparently there are issues between RAH execs and the F9 mgt team..whether SM and his team knew how much dismantling/moving of F9 assets were really
257 Enilria : For all you know SM always planned to leave 6 months after the deal was completed. Press releases are always contrivances written by PR people. his d
258 Enilria : It's confirmed in another thread. The Frontier and Midwest headquarters will be closed and consolidated to Indy. I was RIGHT, sadly.
259 Mariner : Anything is possible. But you must have a very poor opinion of SM, if you believe that he took the money while intending to run. LOL. It isn't hard t
260 Beryllium : Menke got bored and lost his interest, and is now resigning to pursue his dream of running the marathon... That's cute... It reminds me of Bill Diffe
261 Mariner : LOL. I'm not sure how you got that idea - at least, from anything I said. mariner
262 PlanesNTrains : When you are a leader, and are used to executing a vision, you get bored pretty quick when someone else starts running the show. What would people ha
263 Beryllium : I've just elaborated a little on your idea You were talking about "a test of self". Diffenderfer tried to run an airline... Screwed up... Lost intere
264 Mariner : In my world, that's quite a lot. Generally, my view has been that when someone says "you can;t do that" my response had been "watch me." The most suc
265 Beryllium : That is true. But, I thought (from what I've been reading here, and in other threads) that RAH gave Menke all the freedom he needed to run these F9/Y
266 FRNT787 : My prediction: --As soon as RAH posts a Quarterly loss, there will be people saying it is because they forced Sean Menke out (likely the same ones wh
267 FRNT787 : It could be any number of things...from everything I have watched the man do over time, I highly doubt this is it.
268 MASTYC : Q Will Frontier’s brand continue? A Work is currently underway to provide a seamless service experience to our customers throughout the branded carr
269 Enilria : Roght? If you remember I said it even before that one article was written and I'm the one who posted that article. You do know there were people with
270 AirFrnt : A broken clock was finally right I don't take this as a positive in any way shape or form. But that being said, the employees at F9 are still better
271 Beryllium : Yes, people should take risks in their lives. But likewise, they should do the things they are good at doing. If someone tells you "You cannot do it"
272 Post contains links Enilria : Keep in mind WN made a two year commitment to keep F9 alive. You can't really judge until then. So far, so bad... http://denver.bizjournals.com/denve
273 Post contains links Mariner : Just to keep the record straight - a.netters do have a way of revising history - I'll post 'em both again: Denver Post 6/28/09: http://www.denverpost
274 Mariner : Of course. And - more than once - I fell flat on my face. But I don't know anything of value that has been achieved without that risk. One of the mos
275 Post contains links Enilria : Yes they do... That Frontier Thread, Part 2 (by Scbriml Mar 23 2009 in Civil Aviation)
276 Mariner : That isn't revising history. That is simply being flat out wrong. mariner
277 PlaneAdmirer : You just climbed in my esteem again. Honesty and candor.
278 Mcg : This leads to an interesting question: Would the Frontier 'community' (i.e. employees and customers) have been better served by WN winning the auction
279 PI731 : Does anyone know what happened with the E70s that were operating as Mokulele?? Are they now with Midwest in MKE?? Sorry if you already takled about th
280 Enilria : I've posed this before and the answer is different for each employee group. These are IMHO... HQ Staff Verdict: Much Better with WN Reason: WN was go
281 F9Animal : Suddenly Denver is concerned? After all the shafting they did with F9 through all of the years, maybe this might be their wakeup call. I am sad to se
282 Beryllium : Now that it is official that Menke will stay with the company till April, I am wondering what he will be doing during these 3-4 months to come, and wh
283 Rampart : Agreed. But this is akin to waking up around lunch after the rest of the world has been up, had breakfast, and put is a good morning's work. They may
284 Petteri : In other F9 news, they have announced seasonal service from OKC to TPA and MCO. Details here: media.frontierairlines.com/article_display.cfm?article_i
285 GentFromAlaska : [quote=Mariner,reply=261]Menke got bored[/quote In a sense yes. Just my I have a hunch this is legacy resignation. I do think there were one or more a
286 USPIT10L : That's old news, it's been on the F9 route map for a few months.
287 Mariner : Alpha males. Any pack must have a leader. Two young lions can't/won't co-exist in the same pride. It was inevitable, but I thought it would take long
288 PlanesNTrains : So Mariner, I'm curious where you are at "emotionally" when it comes to Frontier? They are no longer independent, SM is heading out the door, and the
289 Mariner : I don't have an answer - I am totally schizophrenic. As I've said before, struggle interests me more than success, and my interest in Frontier was -
290 PlanesNTrains : Thank you for the reply and explanation. We all have our different motives behind our interests, and in my mind I think of Frontier now as a somewhat
291 Mariner : mariner
292 Post contains links Beryllium : Today's article from Milwaukee Business Journal about YX brand: http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/mil...story3.html?b=1263790800%5E2737411 Says that RA
293 GentFromAlaska : Another concern of mine is Lynx as it exist today. Will the Q400 be sold? From previous post BB as I understood it wasn't the biggest fan of the Q400,
294 GentFromAlaska : Fair Winds and Following Seas Sean!
295 PlanePainter : I agree with you Gent. I think they are a valuable asset. Hopefully BB comes around and keeps them.
296 Enilria : Judging from that article it's more the opposite. With the HQ gone they are no longer the hometown airline and so they deserve no better treatment th
297 Mariner : It isn't a new position at all. Alpha males can be extraordinarily good friends and even great business partners - for a time or on specific projects
298 Knope2001 : Don't waste your time giving a moment's consideration to either one of those articles...the original one in the Milwaukee Business Journal nor the st
299 YXwatcherMKE : Again, I can't agree more with this statement. If BB had given SM more say so of daily operations I thin SM would have remained longer. I also feel t
300 Enilria : That's not a bad critique of the article, but I am *aware* that they have looked at adding point-to-point stuff from STL and MCI in recent months...a
301 PlanesNTrains : I do enjoy - to a degree - the point-counterpoint nature of you and Mariner, if only because it creates dialogue. But why does everything have to be
302 Knope2001 : "Looked at" doesn't really mean squat. Just about every domestic airline "looked at" adding service from St Louis in the wake of the AA pullback. It'
303 Stratoduck : >We all know that the day will come when the YX name will vanish maybe the name, but not the identifier. i've noticed the emb-145/170's flying for usa
304 USPIT10L : Actually, as RC was pulling down former NC strongholds like MKE and ORD, YX/Kimberley-Clark saw an opportunity at MKE and jumped on it. NWA did not b
305 Post contains links Mariner : They may have quite a playground out there. I am surprised MCI-LAS has not happened yet, despite the presence of Southwest on the route and I imagine
306 YXwatcherMKE : You don't quite have your facts straight, I had stock in RC from 1968 until NWA bought them out. NW had started cutting it's operations at MKE in 198
307 TSRA : If Lynx is cut, I wonder what will happen to cities like ICT, RAP, FAR, COS...? Does Republic put the E-170s or E-145s on these routes or just drop th
308 USPIT10L : And by that time, RC had started pulling down both ORD and MKE, in favor of DTW and MSP, respectively. YX then began to pick up marketshare at MKE. N
309 USPIT10L : Apparently the edit function isn't working properly. My comments about YX have to do with RC's pulldown of MKE flying in late 1984. MSP was being bui
310 Enilria : In Mariner's defense he usually does not play the "I told you so" game as much as I, BUT Mariner has a fan base of trash talkers who repeatedly say t
311 YXwatcherMKE : Wow! One of the few times I have to chime in one of your comments to say your right on. My only question is if they do make the move to add point to
312 YXwatcherMKE : Which was after RC had merged with NW and had cut even more RC service out of MKE to move it to DTW then realized that was a big mistake, I had a goo
313 Enilria : I'm hearing from several sources that some slots will change hands with the LGA/DCA deal between DL and US. It's not definite, but I hear that quietl
314 YXwatcherMKE : I think that may have been a sticking point between BB and SM. And what I mean by that is BB saw the YX "Signature Service" as a means of a form of a
315 PlanesNTrains : Well, to be clear, I was more directing the "gotcha" at yourself, not so much Mariner. It was mainly because it seemed that you were twisting what he
316 Post contains images Mariner : Sorry, that's a stretch.   "Stretch" was originally planned at Frontier some months before the auction, in the early part of '09. It was not an edic
317 Post contains images YXwatcherMKE : Ok I'll trust you on that but it just seemed to be a bit odd that it happened after the YX E190's started flying for F9 routes. I have not yet flown
318 Enilria : The union part being the driver is crap. The management of US Airways is perfectly happy for the pilots to be fighting each other. I think they actua
319 USPIT10L : Thanks for the info. I often wondered what NWA's plans were post merger for cities like MKE. MKE had an interesting market dynamic when YX and NW wer
320 Mariner : Sure. I've been blasting the other airline I follow because of a flaw in the website booking engine, which allows NZ pax to book to TPA but not to BO
321 Airport : Star would really surprise me. It seems like if they could be persuaded, the alliance that could most benefit from them would perhaps be OneWorld. Bu
322 JBo : Midwest was originally an all 2x2 cabin serving mostly business routes. Under this structure, the company did fairly well. It was not until Midwest e
323 Boydatageek : IMO, the Key to Midwest's early years' profitability was their almost 100% mix of O/D traffic to/from MKE. By having a route map and schedule that wa
324 AirportGuy1971 : This just showed up on Flyer Talk... Weekly Letter from Bryan Bedford For the week ended 1-15-10 Good afternoon. We are all watching the tragedy of th
325 FRNT787 : This letter exemplifies why I am a fan of Bryan Bedford and I respect him so much. I am really glad to see him answering a lot of the questions, and
326 HermansCVR580 : I take what Mr. Bedford is saying here is that its a very high possibility that niether the Midwest or Frontier name may be the chosen one once the d
327 MSYtristar : I'll be honest, seeing that happen down the road would not surprise me at all at this point. Having such a well respected and accomplished person lik
328 Post contains links LoneStarMike : From an earlier article over at flightglobal.com: Frontier looks for jump start October 28, 2009 Now, less than 3 months later he's no longer grateful
329 NorCal : This is a really good letter. I like Bedford's honesty towards his employees. I also like that he is actively looking to help out in the Haiti relief
330 Enilria : "Combining the...brands". There you go. One brand. Hmm. So, they have fired pretty much all the F9 VPs and told everybody else that the offices are c
331 F9Animal : Well folks, we all chatted about the merge of both products. It is happening, and it goes without its pains. At the same time, it makes little sense t
332 PlanesNTrains : I iimagine that he does indeed have a clue about hubs, but doubt he was trying to teach Fortress Hubs 101 to his employees. That wasn't the purpose o
333 FRNT787 : The fact that he had to use that in order to find fault with the letter is kind of funny to me. Completely missing the point. AA considers those hubs
334 Mariner : Tough to know. Perhaps he missed being in sole charge more than he thought he would. Perhaps there was a bust-up if some kind, but I assume he and BB
335 Rjnut : It appears that they are hinting at a certain amount of potential back-filling at abandoned hubs like STL,for example as one of their gorwth models! I
336 GentFromAlaska : The mistrust part is muy serious, especially if it is happening with management. Thereafter morale is usually not far behind. They might want to cons
337 LoneStarMike : Maybe, but it was kind of an interesting lead-in to the rest of the letter. Let's talk about the big earthquake in Haiti, then we'll discuss another
338 Post contains links Mariner : This thread is getting long so I've started a new one: The New Frontier/Midwest (by Mariner Jan 19 2010 in Civil Aviation) It also seems like a good t
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