Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Security Rules Eased  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3180 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091228/...airline_attack_passenger_tolerance

Pax can now stand up during last hour, can watch IFE, and can have blankets/pillows


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

All at Captains discretion.
Common sense prevails.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/28/national/main6030609.shtml

[Edited 2009-12-28 15:55:13]

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

Stupid rules they were too, glad they have eased.
The standing up thing, well, that was a joke. The guy was sitting down.


User currently offline5Rivers From Kenya, joined Jan 2009, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8154 times:

Good to know. Airline security needs a comprehensive overhaul and it needs to be done by people who know what they're doing, not politicians.


"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjam
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

Thank god. How about maintaining 100% screening of all passengers and bags at the gate with full hand luggage search and pat down search. Would make more sense then switching off the Simpsons 60 mins from Newfoundland...

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26174 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

There is an existing thread on the security issue(s)
Increased Airport / Airline Restrictions (by Elite Dec 27 2009 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 7985 times:

I'm glad this joke of no standing up during the last hour crap has been put to stop... I honestly can't believe no one would be allowed to get up and use the loo for the last hour. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen when some poor person peed themselves (or worse..) in their seat.

And dont even get me started about sitting quietly with no blankets with our hands visible for the last hour too, are we in freaking kindergarten people??


User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

I'm convinced that if the guy was singing a Rolling Stones song when he lit the fuse we wouldn't be allowed to sing on airplanes right now.

Any word on the 1 carry on bag limit restriction on international flights? I'm traveling to Russia next month. Business travelers will not like this.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 hours ago) and read 7818 times:



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 7):
Any word on the 1 carry on bag limit restriction on international flights? I'm traveling to Russia next month. Business travelers will not like this.

According to tonights CBS evening news its varying from country to country.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 hours ago) and read 7610 times:



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 7):
I'm convinced that if the guy was singing a Rolling Stones song when he lit the fuse we wouldn't be allowed to sing on airplanes right now.

Not even that. None of the rules that were enacted after the event had anything to do with the actual attack except maybe the moving map one. And it's not as if getting rid of that is going to deter a terrorist from blowing up a plane.

"Gee, if I can't blow up my plane with 100% certainty I'm over the U.S. then I guess I should just give up!"

It's as if 300 people got sick from contaminated beef and your response was to intensify restrictions on vegetables.


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 hours ago) and read 7467 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
"Gee, if I can't blow up my plane with 100% certainty I'm over the U.S. then I guess I should just give up!"

Hey! With these measures we are safe from blind terrorists (who can´t look out of a window) with inner-ear problems (unable to notice the increase in cabin pressure) who are also deaf (unable to hear the captain announcing its 40 degrees in Toledo with 20 mph winds from the Northwest) and too poor to buy a watch to tell them it´s about time to land. I feel much more relaxed now that poor blind-deaf Ahmed is not going to blow up my plane (although I am not totally sure what use he had for the IFE in the first place).



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2826 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7411 times:

Not to make light of the situation, but sometimes you just have to step back and have a laugh at how everything looks from the outside.

Enjoy.

Jeff Dunham - Achmed the Dead Terrorist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3674 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7371 times:

Well that was certainly useful.

I never understand this. Every time there's a terrorist attack, attempted terrorist attack or even a rumor of a terrorist attack, a bunch of dumb, draconian "security" measures are put in place for a few days until the press decides to focus on something else. Then the rules are relaxed.

But the question is, if these rules were at all effective, why wouldn't they just remain in place indefinitely? Are we somehow more safe now that 3 days have passed since this attempted attack?

And why do people put up with this junk? I see so many news reports with interviews with people saying things like "well, it's inconvenient, but if it makes us safer..." At what point do you stop and say "wait a minute, HOW is this making me safer and WHY should I have to put up with it?"



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7353 times:

What would happen if your hands weren't visible?

Oh now! That toddeler has his hands in his pockets! Divert the Plane! Scramble the airforce! Call Hillary! Attack the kid!

Really?

And is airshow back on?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 985 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7286 times:



Quoting LHR380 (Reply 2):
Stupid rules they were too, glad they have eased.
The standing up thing, well, that was a joke. The guy was sitting down.

Yeah, and the pax that subdued the terrorist STOOD UP.
What were they thinking with the no standing rule? Next time, let the guy burn the plane down and nobody react for fear of being arrested after landing for breaking the rules? Without common sense, the world has become insane!



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7232 times:



Quoting Skydrol (Reply 14):
Yeah, and the pax that subdued the terrorist STOOD UP.
What were they thinking with the no standing rule? Next time, let the guy burn the plane down and nobody react for fear of being arrested after landing for breaking the rules? Without common sense, the world has become insane!

 checkmark 

Couldn't agree more.

The avaition industry has to be worst for the blind obdience of rules. As a Uni tutor of mine once said...

Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise.


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 7220 times:



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 7):
Any word on the 1 carry on bag limit restriction on international flights? I'm traveling to Russia next month. Business travelers will not like this.

Well I have never understood that rule. Whether we have one carry on or a carry on and a lap top should not be a problem.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 12):
But the question is, if these rules were at all effective, why wouldn't they just remain in place indefinitely? Are we somehow more safe now that 3 days have passed since this attempted attack?

And why do people put up with this junk? I see so many news reports with interviews with people saying things like "well, it's inconvenient, but if it makes us safer..." At what point do you stop and say "wait a minute, HOW is this making me safer and WHY should I have to put up with it?"

I have to agree with this statement. How are we safer now then befpre Christmas. It was admitted that the terrorist was not supposed to be on the flight or any flight, if the rules were enforced that were in place before Christmas day then you would not have the incident at all.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years ago) and read 7205 times:

Per reports today, some Captains are still announcing the rules as in full effect on their aircraft. I would expect that continue on some flights for days to come.


“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (5 years ago) and read 7136 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 16):
Well I have never understood that rule. Whether we have one carry on or a carry on and a lap top should not be a problem.

The way I understood the new regulation it was one and done. One bag..period, no carry on and laptop bag, it's one or the other. Here's my point. I'm going to eastern Russia, it's -20 degrees F right now. I need my laptop for work and I need at least a days worth of cold weather gear in case Aeroflot or DL loses my bag. This has happened to me in AK before. It costs me time and the company I work for money.

And Doc I'm with you. Name one regulation they have imposed that would stop another terrorist attack. The TSA has never stopped one terrorist attack. It's time we move toward profiling as others have said. Not all muslims are terrorists I agree, but most terrorists are muslims. Flame me if you want, but show me a list of US Domestic terrorists that aren't muslim that is longer than non-muslim terrorists and I'll never ask for profiling again.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2188 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years ago) and read 7104 times:



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 18):
Flame me if you want, but show me a list of US Domestic terrorists that aren't muslim that is longer than non-muslim terrorists and I'll never ask for profiling again.

Profiling may not necessarily be as discriminatory as the public believes; what many people don't understand is that profiling can involve taking a closer look at the blondest-haired, bluest-eyed people too. It's more than just racial appearance.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 11):
Not to make light of the situation,

No...we have to laugh at the absurdity of the ridiculous reactions and the sweeping aside of the glaring ways in which you or I could carry something quite nasty onto an airplane at any time, even today. What I find sad is how so many travelers accept the new regulations with such tacit approval.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6983 times:

I was on AF72 CDG-LAX tonight.
Secondary screening at CDG right at the gate for everybody: full bag checks, body pat-down. For no clear reason, all fluids not in quart-size bags were removed, including water purchased after primary security check (this does not make sense to me).

In-flight: No moving map, but full IFE until landing. No 1-hour-before-landing restrictions.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

It seems to me that TSA has failed to note that al-Qaida was interested in trying to bring down a U.S. plane in U.S. airspace. If you look at the typical routing for a flight from AMS to DTW, it spends very little time in U.S. airspace before touching down at DTW.

It could be that the reason that the terrorist botched the detonation, was that he was waiting until the plane had crossed over from Ontario to Michigan. He could very well have been looking for the Detroit River, Lake Huron, or other geographic clues to point to crossing into the U.S. from Canada, realizing that the pilots were heading into the pattern, and frantically trying to detonate the explosive before the plane was on the ground.

Thus, the "staying seated with no carryon items during the last hour" rule is plain dumb. The next time, a terrorist might try flying into LAX or DFW from Europe, so that he has more time. Or maybe detonate a bomb upon departure. After all, it would be very scary to be looking north from a Chicago skyscraper, see a plane in the eastbound ORD departure pattern north of the Loop, and then see it blow up.

It seems to me that TSA needs to do 2 things. First, it needs to install either the puffer devices or the full body-scan devices at security checkpoints. The puffer device would pick up many expolosive materials. The body-scanning device would allow screeners to see what is under clothing that a metal detector can't find, such as powders, liquids, plastic guns, and the like.

And as much as the ACLU hates the body-scanning device, it would reduce the need to remove coats, shoes, and all metal objects (car keys, change, credit cards, etc.) .

Second, Israeli security experts have said since 9/11 that TSA needs to train its employees, airline employees, and any other airport employees that have contact with passengers, in the art of conversation. Part of Israeli security procedures is to question every passenger about his travel plans, such as why they are traveling, when they made the reservations, who made it, where they are staying, who they are seeing, and so on. It's the people who can't easily answer their questions who are pulled for extra screening.

I had one Israeli expert say that considering the number of lines that U.S. passengers face (check-in at a kiosk, getting the checked bags tagged, dropping off bags at the CT scanners, entering the security checkpoint, waiting to go through the metal detector, getting food at McDonald's, checking with the gate agent for a seat assignment or upgrade, boarding, and the like), there are many opportunities to converse with passengers without adding to length of time they spend in line.

Even though the terrorist had a R/T ticket to DTW from Lagos, Nigeria, he might have flubbed on who made his reservation, why he was going to Detroit, who he was seeing in Detroit, and where he was staying.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6458 times:



Quoting Ckfred (Reply 21):
Second, Israeli security experts have said since 9/11 that TSA needs to train its employees, airline employees, and any other airport employees that have contact with passengers, in the art of conversation. Part of Israeli security procedures is to question every passenger about his travel plans, such as why they are traveling, when they made the reservations, who made it, where they are staying, who they are seeing, and so on. It's the people who can't easily answer their questions who are pulled for extra screening.

Is that really effective? If I were a good terrorist, I'd probably have a good answer for all their questions (and the body language to go with it) and do everything I could to blend in with everybody else.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineJonjonnl From UK - England, joined Dec 2007, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6185 times:



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 22):
Is that really effective? If I were a good terrorist, I'd probably have a good answer for all their questions (and the body language to go with it) and do everything I could to blend in with everybody else.

Them being Israeli security forces, I reckon that if they still do it it's because the method is indeed effective.



joão in ncl
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5910 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Kindly continue your discussions on security rules in the existing thread: Increased Airport / Airline Restrictions

All posts made after this post will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Zealand Relaxes Aviation Security Rules posted Fri Sep 30 2005 12:43:19 by 777ER
News:- UK 9/11 Security Rules To Be "relaxed" posted Mon Apr 4 2005 03:50:01 by BMIFlyer
New Security Rules For DCA? posted Sat Aug 9 2003 03:30:18 by 747firstclass
Are Carry-on Security Rules Same In Europe? posted Sun Sep 8 2002 16:24:43 by J_hallgren
Airport Security Rules? posted Sun Jul 30 2000 03:19:23 by Johno
"For Security Reasons" - Pretext For Stupid Rules? posted Wed Dec 24 2003 14:14:26 by Mozart
New Security Procedures For Flights To US posted Sat Dec 26 2009 03:15:59 by LHR380
AA "Voice Call" Violation=security On Arrival? posted Mon Dec 7 2009 16:18:05 by JerseyGuy
Security Incident Aboard AirTran Flight 297? posted Fri Dec 4 2009 21:02:40 by Clickhappy
European Court Rules On Delay Compensation posted Thu Nov 19 2009 04:53:10 by Vfw614