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LH DUS-US/Canada - All A330-300 In S10  
User currently offlineFlyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Posted (4 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

So I noticed that DUSYYZ/EWR/ORD are now all A330 with a reduced J cabin size from 48 to 36.

The question is where are the A333s coming from, and where are the A343s going?

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCX288 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

Lufthansa is selling two A-340 to the German Air Force (Flugbereitschaft) for VIP Government transport.

Re the A-330, I suspect they will be sourced from the FRA-based fleet for MUC only has a very small number of A-330 and if they decide to keep them based there, a certain minimum number of frames is required in my opinion.


User currently offlineDABVF From Germany, joined Sep 2004, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 8341 times:

3 A333 will go to DUS, 1 from MUC and 2 from FRA...

So in Summer 2010, LH will operate 9 A333 from FRA, 3 from MUC and 3 from DUS.


User currently offlinePilotfox From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 8306 times:

Thanks for the heads up. I'm booked on a DUS-YYZ in June and just last week I was securing seats for the 340, now I'll have to recheck my seat assignment.

User currently offlineFlyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 8251 times:



Quoting DABVF (Reply 2):
3 A333 will go to DUS, 1 from MUC and 2 from FRA...

So in Summer 2010, LH will operate 9 A333 from FRA, 3 from MUC and 3 from DUS

But LH program has 4+ A330s in the plan from MUC

BOM 4/7 + MIA 3/7
YUL daily
IAD daily
JFK daily


User currently offlineDaumueller From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 693 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 8228 times:



Quoting Flyyul (Reply 4):
But LH program has 4+ A330s in the plan from MUC

probably, one of these will change to A340


User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 8049 times:

What about the MIA flight?


united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33053 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 7571 times:

MIADUS operates through the last week of May and restarts first week of October. It will also see the A330 when the switch is made.


a.
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2250 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

Did I miss that LH was adding Dusseldorf in addition to Munich and Frankfurt? Or are you connecting from DUS to the MUC or FRA flights.

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 7447 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
Did I miss that LH was adding Dusseldorf in addition to Munich and Frankfurt? Or are you connecting from DUS to the MUC or FRA flights.

Yes  Smile

Two years ago, LH started a small long-haul operation from DUS, next to it's extensive European network. During the summer, routes are to EWR, ORD and YYZ. For the winter, YYZ is traded for MIA. IIRC, this winter is the second winter they're operating this service.

DUS is not becoming a third full-fledged hub for LH, like FRA and MUC are, but it's more an O&D-orriented operation, catering for the local demand from the Rhein-Ruhr area and the eastern parts of the Netherlands and Belgium. Connections are possible though, and DUS is sometimes advertised as a boutique hub, as the small size of the airport (compared to FRA) typically makes it a very pleasant experiance.

Although one or two frames might be added in the coming years, the operations are supposed to stay low-scale.


User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 6986 times:

My guess is that we'll see something similar once BER opens.


united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 6585 times:



Quoting UA933 (Reply 10):
My guess is that we'll see something similar once BER opens.

Does LH plan to begin any longhaul flights ex BER?



'He resembled a pilot, which to a seaman is trustworthiness personified.' Joseph Conrad
User currently offlineDALCA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 6569 times:



Quoting UA933 (Reply 10):
My guess is that we'll see something similar once BER opens.

Don't know about this, haven't heard any serious talk about this. Could the BER area really support these kind of flights?



Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33053 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 6496 times:



Quoting DALCA (Reply 12):

Quoting UA933 (Reply 10):
My guess is that we'll see something similar once BER opens.

Don't know about this, haven't heard any serious talk about this. Could the BER area really support these kind of flights?

BER can support leisure long-haul to places like Southeast Asia and Miami, but Air Berlin takes care of that with one A330 based there, and possibly another in the future.



a.
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 6161 times:



Quoting DALCA (Reply 12):
Could the BER area really support these kind of flights?

I would guess that LH could find enough traffic to fill an A333 daily out of Berlin to some major International destinations and especially Star Alliance hubs for onward traffic. This could be part of their capacity increases on presently served destinations, and Berlin would offer them an efficient way to add frequencies without relying on slot-congested airports like Frankfurt and Munich. Cities that come to mind:
- New York/Newark
- Washington
- Chicago
- Tokyo
- Shanghai
- Beijing
- Los Angeles (4 x per week)
- San Francisco (3 x per week)

(8 x A333s would be enough to operate such a network on a daily basis - a relatively small investment by LH standards). Also considering that all mentionned destinations (and hub - Berlin) are presently Lufthansa-staffed, the investment would be even more insignificant for LH.

I would also see a lucrative BBJ or ACJ business model (through Privatair) developped ex-Berlin to such cities as:
- Delhi
- Dubai
- Mumbai
- Newark (in addition to daily A333 service to JFK)
- Toronto

Keep in mind that Berlin is the political centre of Germany (high yielding politicians travelling to the far corners of the planet - they would appreciate these direct services without the need to transfer in Frankfurt or Munich), which should increase Berlin's appeal to LH as a mini-hub. Also, Berlin can be used as a mini-hub for the northern population of Europe - attracting passengers from the likes of Sweden, Norway, Danmark, Finland, the Baltic countries, and even Russia). Maybe a Berlin-based operation would finally halt all talks about LH acquiring SAS (lol =D)

But this would not happen immediately, and I think LH would require about 6-7 years to build such an operation in Berlin.

Cheers!


User currently offlineBartBus From Netherlands, joined Jul 2009, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 6110 times:

Any chances that LH will order some additional A330's? The TXL hub makes sense and an A330 would be the perfect airplane.

User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

I think that BER will eventually become a hub for LH. Government business travel is huge and it is not bad in terms of yields. Besides BER has a very large population.

Aso, given its proximity to Eatsrey Europe and the fact that Eastern European carriers are not significant in the business of long haul traffic (OK, LOT, ...) you will eventually see LH step in and build a niche network


User currently onlineDariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months ago) and read 5358 times:

Do the A333 have PTVs like the A343 had?


Darius Bieber
User currently offlineVadheim From Norway, joined Jul 2000, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months ago) and read 5288 times:

I am sure Berlin must be able to handle a lot of intercontinental traffic when the new Berlin/Brandenburg (BER) Airport opens.

Berlin is after all one of the largest cities in Europe (after Moscow, Paris, London and St. Petersburg) with a population of around 5 million people. Also being the capital of Germany I am sure Lufthansa will have plans for a northern-European hub feeding passengers from northern Germany, Scandinavia, Baltic Region, Poland and parts of Russia via BER.

Interesting to see the development of the new airport!


User currently offlineKonstantinkoll From Germany, joined Aug 2006, 99 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4994 times:



Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 17):
Do the A333 have PTVs like the A343 had?

IIRC, all of Lufthansa's A330 are outfitted with PTVs just like their A340-600s.


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4912 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 14):
- New York/Newark
- Washington
- Chicago
- Tokyo
- Shanghai
- Beijing
- Los Angeles (4 x per week)
- San Francisco (3 x per week)

(8 x A333s would be enough to operate such a network on a daily basis

For NRT, PVG, SFO and LAX, the A333 does not have enough range, except they're willing to accept significant cargo penalties.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineAndie007 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

as far as I remember LH axed the TXL-IAD service quite fast due to very low yields.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3962 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 14):
Keep in mind that Berlin is the political centre of Germany (high yielding politicians travelling to the far corners of the planet - they would appreciate these direct services without the need to transfer in Frankfurt or Munich),

I expect most German politicians are travelling within Europe, not longhaul, just as I doubt that BA depnds on British politicians to fill their longhaul premium class cabins. And, unlike London, Berlin is not the business or financial center of Germany.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3797 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 14):
I would guess that LH could find enough traffic to fill an A333 daily out of Berlin to some major International destinations and especially Star Alliance hubs for onward traffic

Berlin intercontinental traffic demand is weak, as is been demonstrated often during the last years. If demand would be that big, why haven't carriers like AA or UA started routes to TXL in the years before the economic downturn?

IIRC, LH had stationed some A340s at TXL a couple of years ago, but withdrew the flights.

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 18):
Berlin is after all one of the largest cities in Europe (after Moscow, Paris, London and St. Petersburg

City population alone is not that important. Actually, a big population does often generate enough demand for long-haul vacation flights (AB flies to BKK and HKT from TXL), but to make it really work, you do need a chunk of high-yielding traffic, often generated by business traffic from headquarters of multinational companies. For LH, FRA, MUC and ZRH are all better hubs than Berlin.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 14):
Keep in mind that Berlin is the political centre of Germany (high yielding politicians travelling to the far corners of the planet - they would appreciate these direct services without the need to transfer in Frankfurt or Munich)

Don't overestimate demand for politicians flying outside Europe. And don't overstimate the yields either.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 14):

(8 x A333s would be enough to operate such a network on a daily basis - a relatively small investment by LH standards)

It's quite an investment even for LH. And when you only lose money on it, why do it?

I can see LH growing towards a DUS-style operation in Berlin, with some occasional long-haul flights, in a few years. But for hubs, they'll rather expand MUC and ZRH .


User currently offlineFraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

I don't think that LH will open a mini base in Berlin once the new AP opens.
But we might see other partners to operate from their hubs to Berlin like CO already does.

For me the main problem for LH is their fleet. The smallest A/C is a 330 which is too big for almost all longhaul destinations. Partner airlines operating a 767 or 757 have a more fitting equipment for Berlin.


25 WROORD : Their website states that when it opens in 2011 BBI will be the biggest airport in Europe. I do not think that they are building it so big for a hand
26 MAH4546 : No planes were stationed at TXL. Lufthansa launched a very short-lived IAD-TXL service with the plane routed FRA-IAD-TXL-IAD-FRA.
27 FraT : Biggest airport based on what?
28 Viscount724 : Where does it say that? I may have missed it but the only simiilar reference I can find is the statement that it's "Europe's biggest airport construc
29 WROORD : You're right, I've missed the last line on the flashing banner that said "construction site". The capacity is to be around 30 mil when it opens, whic
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