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KLM To Start HGH (Hangzhou, China) May 2010  
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

From May 2010, KLM intends to start the route AMS-HGH.

Somewhat hidden in an interview with Peter Hartman, CEO of KLM, he mentioned the intention of the start of the new route. http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=33264 , in Dutch.

KLM will be the first airline to operate a direct flight from HGH to Europe. After CTU, it's the second Chinese airport where KLM provides the sole link to Europe. In the area, KLM also flies to PEK, PVG and HKG.

No word yet on frequency and equipment, and the flight isn't open for booking yet. Considering the choice of words in the interview, it seems like the route is 99% sure to start, but that they're waiting for some final approval.

Nice to see KLM expanding and exploring new markets!

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 3017 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

This seems like a strange route given that PVG is around an hour away by train from HGH, although if they can make it work, good for them. There are plenty of other 'medium' sized cities in China with very variable international service (Nanjing NKG (just lost SQ), Shenyang SHE (just lost LH), Xi'an XIY (no long hual), Urumqi URC (no long hual, only regional), Guangzhou CAN (LH to FRA, AF to CDG, ET to ADD, KT(?) to NBO, amongst others).


http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: LHR-JMK,JTR-LHR-WAW,MSQ-FRA-EZE,IGR-EZE-CUN,MEX-FRA-LCY,LHR-TXL-LHR
User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6783 times:



Quoting Joost (Thread starter):
No word yet on frequency and equipment, and the flight isn't open for booking yet.

The article states the route will be operated 3x per week.

Could it become a tag on to the CTU flight?


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6774 times:

My guess would be B772ER equipment.

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6522 times:



Quoting Gabrielchew (Reply 1):
This seems like a strange route given that PVG is around an hour away by train from HGH, although if they can make it work, good for them.

Indeed. It might have to do with the CZ hub at HGH, which is an important partner for KLM on Chinese routes. The CZ code is added to KL flights to PEK, PVG and CTU; the KL-code is added to CZ's CAN-PEK-AMS flight.

In the interview, Hartman also said they are working on cooperation with China Eastern, who is operating a hub from PVG. KL flies AMS-PVG 12 weekly with 747 combi equipment.

Quoting Tripple7 (Reply 2):

Could it become a tag on to the CTU flight?

Possibly. 1 May, when the route starts, is on a Saturday. The CTU flight also operates on Saturdays. However, in that case, they will still need to re-adjust the CTU schedules as currently it only has 1:30 ground time.

Quoting Gabrielchew (Reply 1):
There are plenty of other 'medium' sized cities in China with very variable international service

It is indeed surprising how little international service is offered from 'medium' sized cities. These cities are typically very unknown (I must admit I had never heard of Xi'an before, for example) but they all have multiple millions of people living in the urban area's.

In the interview, Hartman said that currently South East Asia contributed for 25% of KLMs traffic, and that this number is about to grow during the coming years.


User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6368 times:



Quoting Gabrielchew (Reply 1):
This seems like a strange route given that PVG is around an hour away by train from HGH

Very much agree, although it still managed to be the 8th busiest in China due largely to domestic traffic. International traffic are almost exclusive to the region, with four airports served in Taiwan, two in Japan, two in South Korea, and one each in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Quoting Gabrielchew (Reply 1):
There are plenty of other 'medium' sized cities in China with very variable international service.....Guangzhou CAN

Eh I won't call Guangzhou a "medium sized city" when it is the third largest in China with over 12 million people in its metro area! Big grin

Still, that accentuates the point Joost made:

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
It is indeed surprising how little international service is offered from 'medium' sized cities. These cities are typically very unknown (I must admit I had never heard of Xi'an before, for example) but they all have multiple millions of people living in the urban area's.

It is sad that a city like Xi'an, once known as Chang'an and the capital of the then biggest empire of the world, the Tang Dynasty (and 12 other political entities before that), is relatively unknown today. One would have expect it to be about as famous as Rome, Athens, Cairo, Istanbul or Baghdad given its history.

And speaking of Hangzhou, it was a former capital city too...that of the Wuyue Kingdom over a thousand years ago and later, the Southern Song Dynasty (1127–1279).



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineNorjet From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

And yet the North American carriers can't seem to get beyond PEK, PVG, and HKG...

I work with families who adopt kids from China, and they all have to depart from Guangzhou, because that's where consular processing happens. It was so easy and fast to get people home when NWA operated daily CAN-NRT. None of the routing options available today are as speedy or able to cover as many city pairs as that one flight could.



Publishing travel advice for adopting families - to justify being an airline geek
User currently offlineCptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5747 times:



Quoting Gabrielchew (Reply 1):
This seems like a strange route given that PVG is around an hour away by train from HGH, although if they can make it work, good for them. There are plenty of other 'medium' sized cities in China with very variable international service (Nanjing NKG (just lost SQ), Shenyang SHE (just lost LH), Xi'an XIY (no long hual), Urumqi URC (no long hual, only regional), Guangzhou CAN (LH to FRA, AF to CDG, ET to ADD, KT(?) to NBO, amongst others).

Does KL codeshare with CZ on the AMS-PEK-CAN route?


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5559 times:



Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 3):
My guess would be B772ER equipment.

I think it's far too much capacity for a new (uncertain) route and for a destination not so far from CTU. An A330 would be more adapted IMO at the beginning.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5374 times:



Quoting CptGirmayTesfa (Reply 7):

Does KL codeshare with CZ on the AMS-PEK-CAN route?



Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
It might have to do with the CZ hub at HGH, which is an important partner for KLM on Chinese routes. The CZ code is added to KL flights to PEK, PVG and CTU; the KL-code is added to CZ's CAN-PEK-AMS flight.



User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5277 times:
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I have read in this forum the intentions of Hainan Airlines to start flights from HGH to MAD via DXB in few weeks.

Does anyone know new information about it?

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5067 times:



Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 10):
I have read in this forum the intentions of Hainan Airlines to start flights from HGH to MAD via DXB in few weeks.

It was announced as well with HGH-DXB-LAD.

A330 service to MAD and B767 to LAD. Don´t know the date yet to MAD.


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4924 times:



Quoting Goldorak (Reply 8):
I think it's far too much capacity for a new (uncertain) route and for a destination not so far from CTU. An A330 would be more adapted IMO at the beginning.

KLM also started CTU with 777, and if you take a quick look at KLM's far eastern network,
you'll notice that, with the single temporary exception of CTU right now,KLM only deploys
747 and 777 equipment in this region.
Also AMS-HGH is about 4800NM, meaning that the A332 with it somewhat slower cruisespeed will regularly encounter westbound journey's of 12hrs flightime.
Although this is absolutely within the A332 capacity, something tell's me KLM (and
certainly the unions) would prefer to deploy equipment with crewbunks to this destination.

But it's just my guess, I could be wrong.


User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

It could also become an extra leg to one of the PVG flights,. iirc 893/894 has quite some groudn time in PVG.
In that case they would not have to re-adjust the CTU flights.
PVG slots could be a problem.

I begin to believe that it could be a complete new flight.



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User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4604 times:



Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 12):
KLM also started CTU with 777, and if you take a quick look at KLM's far eastern network,
you'll notice that, with the single temporary exception of CTU right now,KLM only deploys
747 and 777 equipment in this region.

It is planned KLM will change service to Chengdu to A330 in the 2010 Summer Schedule.


User currently offlineDHstrike From Netherlands, joined Nov 2009, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

As far as I can see the capacity for the KLM B777 for the summer is fully packed ( SFO back in their schedule). The A330 has limit regarding flights longer then 8 hours (max 25% off A330 fleet) so HGH most probably receive MD-11 or B747 ( enough of those).
I'm missing the comments from HB-IWC in these matters...


User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Surprised this route wasnt started earlier. HGH is a large city, one of the most affluent in China, and also one with a decent inbound tourism trade.

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 8):
I think it's far too much capacity for a new (uncertain) route and for a destination not so far from CTU. An A330 would be more adapted IMO at the beginning.

Nah, I think the 772 someone mentioned is a pretty good type for the route. Don't think you'll find too much of an overlap with CTU - it's certainly not near and driving between the two would take days! PVG is more an overlap (can do the trip in around 2 hours) but then HGH is a big destination in itself.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 10):
I have read in this forum the intentions of Hainan Airlines to start flights from HGH to MAD via DXB in few weeks.

This route is more strange, but then Hainan models itself on these 'thinner' long haul routes so it mind be a surprising success!



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