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Will BA Remove First Class Completely?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9186 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16951 times:

When will they start installing new first class seats+AVOD on their B 747-400s?

Will they remove first class completely? Doubt it since most of BA's competitors have first class products. CX, SQ, QF, JL, UA etc. I suppose they are not installing first class on a few planes which they never had plans to put first class on right? The B 777s?

When the A380/B777-300ER/B787 arrive I suppose they will have first class too right?

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16908 times:



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
When will they start installing new first class seats+AVOD on their B 747-400s?

First wont go.

It is getting a new revamp early next year.


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16824 times:

BA 744s all have AVOD already.

New F, W and Y will probably not be installed on the 744s as they are being replaced by the 77Ws and 380s.

BA's 744s are still great aircraft with an excellent hard product in all classes. F is a bit dated but not bad, J is state-of-the-art and W and Y are pretty much what they are everywhere. I only fly Y and while I am looking forward to BA's new Y product, the 744 is still a favorite of mine. Other than I guess a 380 (which I haven't flown yet), nothing quite has the same feeling. A 777 does feel much smaller.

I think BA's 744s are still some of the best-looking airplanes, inside and out, and I'll be sad to see them go.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineParapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16718 times:

Just come back from Vancouver BA 744.You just can't beat them (BA and the 744).What a combo! Complaints?Food could have been a little more interesting (Y).Otherwise great.I have also flown this route Biz BA -fantastic as well. The only thing (nothing to do with BA) is that the seats must for some be too small.I found them very comfortable (good back support),but I am 5 11" and 12 stone.Any bigger - and many are,and it would be very cramped width wise.I am no seat guru but I recall they are 17.2" - something like that.

I flew Air Canada to Toronto on one of their new 777-300ers last year in economy.Quite simply the best I have experienced.I think the seat was 19"! For what is a short flight (from London) there is simply no need (with this aircraft) to upgrade at all.

BTW there is so much talk about fragmentation and the demise of first.My flights were pretty full (744) both ways in all classes,I wonder what BA will put on this flight?777 or 380? or perhaps a mix?


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9186 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16439 times:



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
New F, W and Y will probably not be installed on the 744s as they are being replaced by the 77Ws and 380s.

BA's 744s are still great aircraft with an excellent hard product in all classes. F is a bit dated but not bad, J is state-of-the-art and W and Y are pretty much what they are everywhere. I only fly Y and while I am looking forward to BA's new Y product, the 744 is still a favorite of mine. Other than I guess a 380 (which I haven't flown yet), nothing quite has the same feeling. A 777 does feel much smaller.

Thought they were going to install new F class seats on the B 747-400s. Well they should since these birds will be around for many years to come


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4016 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16375 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Thought they were going to install new F class seats on the B 747-400s

The first B744 with new First should surface in January.


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16361 times:



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
I only fly Y and while I am looking forward to BA's new Y product,

I believe the new Y is going to be installed on the 77W's



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16292 times:

Course the 747 will get it. She is one of the prides of the BA fleet and a fantastic aircraft to fly on. Especially up top.

User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16213 times:



Quoting LHR380 (Reply 1):
First wont go.

It is getting a new revamp early next year.

Probably not going completely but certainly being reduced. BA said back in May that future deliveries would have either no F or much reduced. The demand is just not there on many routes. I can see a couple of routes LHR-JFK, LHR-SYD keeping F with maybe a couple of Asian destinations but that is about it, very hard for companies to justify the cost of F when Business Class is so good on BA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...2/british-airways-first-class-loss


User currently offlineScrappy27 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 16149 times:

I thought the 777's were gonna be converted to the new first config seats first. (thats what the communication was to crew)

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14972 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):

BA's 744s are still great aircraft with an excellent hard product in all classes. F is a bit dated but not bad, J is state-of-the-art and W and Y are pretty much what they are everywhere. I only fly Y and while I am looking forward to BA's new Y product, the 744 is still a favorite of mine. Other than I guess a 380 (which I haven't flown yet), nothing quite has the same feeling. A 777 does feel much smaller.

I think BA's 744s are still some of the best-looking airplanes, inside and out, and I'll be sad to see them go.

I agree with you completely BOACCunard!
The only thing I feel BA needs to upgrade is their W cabins. Is it true that the premium W is only different in the manner of having two less seats per row on the 744 with a bit more leg room? They need to offer a product that is different in other regards to Y and upgrade the meal service like VS has done as well as NZ (though I don't see them going that far as NZ's premium Y catering is phenomenal from what I've read and seen in photos.)

Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 8):
Probably not going completely but certainly being reduced. BA said back in May that future deliveries would have either no F or much reduced. The demand is just not there on many routes. I can see a couple of routes LHR-JFK, LHR-SYD keeping F with maybe a couple of Asian destinations but that is about it, very hard for companies to justify the cost of F when Business Class is so good on BA.

I'm sure there are routes that could do without P (F) but there are some that you don't mention that do quite well with P(F). LAX, SFO, ORD all do quite well with revenue passengers in P & J. I would be interested to see how PHX, DEN, SEA, PHL, ATL do with P as well as MEX, GIG, SCL, EZE etc..

Will the 77Ws they'll be receiving all have P/J/W/Y or will they have some that will just have J/W/Y? What routes will see 77Ws?


User currently offlineNclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14438 times:

BA will never completely dump F will the revamp round the corner (and later than planned) although reducing it on lower premium routes seems a good idea - AF for example has many lower yielding flights from CDG without F, whereas most of BA's long-haul services ex-LHR have F, which will be dead weight on many routes. CW is a great product and works (at least did before the recession) for the company.

Removing F has worked for several companies - I'm pretty sure NZ used to have a first class before reducing to a two-class model (now 3 again with their PE). BA needs to keep it to stay on top of the competition when we start recovering from this crisis.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 6 days ago) and read 13844 times:



Quoting Nclmedic (Reply 11):
BA will never completely dump F will the revamp round the corner (and later than planned) although reducing it on lower premium routes seems a good idea

I looked quickly a little while ago and BA and AAr seem to have the most first class seats of any airlines out there, so cutting it down wouldn't kill them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13451 times:

Other airlines might get rid of First Class but not BA, First Class is one thing Virgin doesn't have so BA will keep it!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13365 times:



Quoting JAL (Reply 13):
one thing Virgin doesn't have so BA will keep it!

Upper Class?



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4016 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13213 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 10):
What routes will see 77Ws?

The list I have seen is BOM first then DEL and with the third aircraft Chicago.
But I'm sure that will change!


User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13147 times:



Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 14):
Upper Class?

VS Upper Class is classified as Business.



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineRwy8l From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12848 times:



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Will they remove first class completely?





BLASPHEMOUS! LOL


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12169 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 5):
The first B744 with new First should surface in January.

Hmm. Well, that's nice to hear!

Now where did I read that the 744 wasn't getting it at all?!

Too bad we won't see new W and Y next month, though.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 10):
The only thing I feel BA needs to upgrade is their W cabins. Is it true that the premium W is only different in the manner of having two less seats per row on the 744 with a bit more leg room?

Yes, I believe the seat is the only difference.

I agree that it would be more appealing if the catering was different.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
I looked quickly a little while ago and BA and AAr seem to have the most first class seats of any airlines out there, so cutting it down wouldn't kill them.

I think UA is the champion of F in the US. AA only has it on the 772 fleet. UA has it on all its international-configured aircraft - 763, 772 and 744.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12034 times:

Quoting Parapente (Reply 3):
Just come back from Vancouver BA 744.You just can't beat them

You can certainly beat the 744 in operating costs. It's hard to compete when you have to match other carriers' fares but are flying an aircraft that burns 20-25% more fuel than twin-engine types of similar capacity such as the 77W. Many 744s are also reaching an age where maintenance becomes a big cost factor.

[Edited 2009-12-31 12:24:09]

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11980 times:



Quoting JAL (Reply 13):
First Class is one thing Virgin doesn't have so BA will keep it!

Incorrect I'm afraid.


User currently offlineEvomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11933 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 20):
Quoting JAL (Reply 13):
First Class is one thing Virgin doesn't have so BA will keep it!

Incorrect I'm afraid.

How so?

Virgin Upper class is a J product, not an F one. They say as much on their website.

If you mean that that in itself is no reason for BA to keep F, I quite agree.


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3282 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Just a thought,
if you had design control over BA First Class cabin on the 747, would you steal the top deck for yourself or stay with the nose section?
For me I would go for the top deck, like LH, but I think they missed a few opportunities with the space to make it a world of their own.
A mix of the A380 shower and so on would really put BA in the lead with First Class service but a bold step forward I think they will pass on.
Opportunity missed?



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineVS744 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 677 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11688 times:

Virgin Upper is a product that sits above Club World and below BA First, however it is such a good product that why would you consider BA First's premium? other than the fact that the cabin on a BA a/c is more secluded I dont think there are that many other reasons to have a First product any more....unless you've got an A380 and those private cabins.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11492 times:



Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 18):
I think UA is the champion of F in the US.

They have it on the most routes, but have fewer seats on each flight. Really, I think that the approach of having F only on selected routes is quite sound, but AA and BA probably have too many seats. There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence on A*net that AA's first class is often filled by nonrevs and upgrades.

Quoting VS744 (Reply 23):
other than the fact that the cabin on a BA a/c is more secluded I dont think there are that many other reasons to have a First product any more

There are if you have people who will pay for it, or have corporate contracts that stipulate a first class section.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 BOACCunard : Nose. The nose of the 747 is a very unique space. The upper deck is nice and does rather feel like, say, an all-J A318, but the nose has a unique fee
26 BMI727 : They would be stupid not to in my opinion. Business classes have gotten better over the past few years, plus the state of the economy has not been ki
27 Jfk777 : British Airways will always have FIRST Class to certain cities, they may have it on less airplanes but BA will have it. I don't see it being a suite p
28 VC10er : Does anyone have a link or an image for the new BA first class seat? It would be interesting to see what BA does as the were the ones who introduced t
29 VV701 : I think you might find that the state of the economy has had a smaller impact on BA's first class than their business class cabins. Those that freque
30 United Airline : HKG will always have first class too. I suppose the B 777-300ERs, B 747-400s, A 380s will always have first class seats right?
31 Viscount724 : When people reach that category, much of their travel is often on business jets.
32 Shankly : Agree BOACCunard. It also allows the 1st class pax to turn left on cabin entry which is a MUST!
33 Stitch : But when it isn't, they're up front in First Class, I imagine in no small part because of the additional level of privacy offered on the ground and i
34 Post contains links LondonCity : VS' Upper Class is also suffering in the economic downturn. But have you seen its latest Upper Class configuration now being installed on its B747 fl
35 Readytotaxi : Heck, once this gets around UpperClass frequent flyers with Virgin are going to want to give this cabin a big miss.Not a good idea.
36 Eugdog : I note that on their LHR _JFK flights half the plane was taken up with Ist and business class. On other flights LHR _PHX premium services occupied a f
37 LimaNiner : Also, wheelchair-bound pax (e.g., older pax -- a likely target demographic for F) don't have to climb stairs to get to their seats. I have to agree w
38 1stfl94 : Under anti discrimination laws in the UK it would be illegal for BA to put F upstairs on the 747s as it would prevent disabled access. This is the sa
39 Tonystan : The first fleet to be rolled out with the new First product is the 777 however there are no plans at this time to remove First from any 747's and they
40 Mutu : Do you have any evidence to support this view? In my experience a fully flexible F fare hasnt chnged that much over the past 8 years LHR/JFK, perhaps
41 AirNz : Sorry, can you enlarge on that please? Has ego gotten to the extreme where it's now 'important' which toilet one uses? I certainly would beg to diffe
42 LondonCity : 1. Upper Class is supposed to provide exclusivity and preferential treatment both on the ground and in the air. Otherwise Upper Class passengers woul
43 Eugdog : I had a slight typo - how the opening up LHR was effect BA gravy train was a question I was asking and not a statement. I cannot speak for first clas
44 VV701 : At the risk of repeting myself: If you earn more than a quarter of a billion pounds over 5 years or if you earn the sort of money Sarah Jessica Parke
45 LACA773 : What UA has done with their P (F) seats on their 744s/763s are very nice. They need to get moving on their 77Es. There's a lot more to P service othe
46 Nzrich : NZ's premium economy meals and wine are all business class food and wines ..
47 VC10er : Agree on UA food and other First class frills. A RCC look like a Marriott circa 1985. I know, I've been in them since 1993 and they looked dated alre
48 LACA773 : It's time to take CO out of the pack as they do not offer international F(P). In fact, when they get their J cabins refurbished, I think you'll find
49 Pellegrine : I think the talk of BA removing F class is pure nonsense. London has one of the highest concentrations of wealth in the world, probably higher than Ne
50 LondonCity : Exactly. What must also be stressed is that BA, like AF and LH, are global carriers are so they must meet the demands of their markets around the wor
51 BMI727 : I don't think that North America qualifies as part of that. Last time I checked, Continental and Delta were taken pretty seriously.
52 BOACCunard : And NW before it merged with DL. And AC. And CP before it merged with AC. And given that NW was certainly taken seriously in Japan, I even wonder if
53 VC10er : I hope I do like the new CO seats and it would be great if they were as good (if not better) than UA's New First Suite. I would then make the jump. I
54 BOACCunard : I don't think it's reasonable to expect that. One is an F product, one is a J product. It doesn't. You have to sit next to someone else.
55 BAStew : New FIRST update: The first A/C (a 777) to receive the new FIRST cabin goes into the Cardiff BA Maitenence Centre on Monday, 11 January for fitting of
56 Comorin : VS Upper Class is in no sense an F product. It is aimed at those whose companies fly their associates across the pond - your typical Wall Street or Ci
57 Post contains links Jack02116 : Sure some of you have already seen this, but .......... his was posted on businesstraveller.com as an artists impression of the new BA FIRST cabin www
58 LondonCity : Especially on VS' B747-400 services ex-LHR where the new "configuration number 4" means that up to 10 Upper Class pax must share the upper deck with
59 LACA773 : The seat is seperated by a partition type short wall if you could call it that. If I knew how to attach a photo, I would do so. So you will not be ha
60 Post contains images FlyCaledonian : Horses for courses means that what is suitable for one person or situation might be unsuitable for another. Comes from the fact that a racehorse perf
61 Pellegrine : NW's success in Japan/Asia was mainly in the Y cabin. Exactly. A bunch of marketing posturing nonsense started by Branson. Can't blame the man at all
62 BOACCunard : Sure, but you're still sitting next to someone else. Does that make it "not serious?"
63 Pellegrine : Not in the least, just a different market segment. I believe most of the J traffic on NW US-Japan-Asia was from the US side. They sure did have a sig
64 LimaNiner : Egads! I hope that's just a rough mock-up of the layout (how is it different from the current layout?), and not of the finishes... lacking high-end f
65 LACA773 : Then you need to fly a carrier that has a P cabin or a herringbone configuration in J.
66 Tonystan : Ugh, wood is so ninties! Fortunately there will be very little "wood" effect in the new cabin, its tacky. You need to remember that there is no wood
67 LY777 : When will BA get the 77Ws?
68 LHR380 : The BA News has said the first plane to get the new refit is getting taken out of service to be fitted next week, a 777. Shame it is not a 744. Very i
69 TristarSteve : Yes IIU is ETA CWL 1101 for its first class refit.
70 Post contains links Normie999 : Will BA ever remove First Class Completely? - "Ever" is a very long time but in the foreseeable future it surely must be safe for all the reasons stat
71 Jack02116 : Anyone know when BA intend to release details / pictures of the actual cabin. I am travelling in First to Dubai second week of Feb on a 777 so may jus
72 Sketty222 : I believe Mr Walsh stated it would be sometime this week
73 LHR380 : The first few NCW fitted 744's and 77's were mainly put on the JFK route to start with.
74 Sketty222 : I believe Mr Walsh stated it would be sometime this week
75 BAStew : I know that BA have absolutely NO plans of dedicating this aircraft to any particular route and also that as this will be the sole aircraft to receive
76 Jfk777 : I wonder if the new PRIME or First will look anything like the First on Qantas A380's ?
77 Tonystan : Youll like it people as long as you dont expect bling, bells, whistles and little doors that rattle across!!!!
78 LimaNiner : Did this happen? ba.com doesn't seem to have been updated...
79 VV701 : I would have thought that it was most likely to happen when the first aircraft fitted with the new cabin returns from CWL. I do not know how long it
80 LACA773 : In other words, something that can be quite gawdy & tacky.
81 AlitaliaDC10 : ...the new BA First will be similar to the QF and CX First product. As stated it will not be enclosed like SQ/EK/EY. BA did a lot of research with the
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