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Will UA & CO Decide To Tie The Knot In 2010?  
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 817 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13949 times:

With CO now in Star, the application for anti-trust immunity with ANA, the UA wide-body fleet announcement, the UA move to larger, consolidated offices in downtown Chicago and improved financial performance, it would appear UA is making the moves necessary to improve the prospect of a successful merger. And, out here in the mid-Pacific it would appear that CO is less interested in competing with UA between Hawaii, the mainland and Asia. It's recent moves to add 737 service from secondary cities on the West Coast as well as Fiji appears complementary to UA's Pacific structure.

I'm not trying to start a "who will be the survivor" thread again as that has been debated over and over again. So, regardless of what the brand is, does it not appear that we might be moving closer to some serious merger discussions?


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13961 times:

I still can't see the upside for CO. Tilton & company will take their golden parachutes & CO will be left with what? Unresolved labor issues and an aging fleet that needs replacement. With the open skies agreement between Japan and the U.S., are UA's routes that important now? There are the slots and landing rights, but are these worth it?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13895 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
aging fleet that needs replacement.

Give UA a few months Lumberton you may find that all the aircraft UA needs to have one of the youngest fleets in the skies are on suddenly on order...

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
With the open skies agreement between Japan and the U.S., are UA's routes that important now? There are the slots and landing rights, but are these worth it?

UA is allot more then just NRT...



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13865 times:

Since I can't just type "no", I decided to type the extra words just to get attention.

No.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13859 times:

It would be much better to let UA fail and then cherry-pick from the pieces. Mergers are nearly always a bad idea for everyone except the M&A lawyers.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13862 times:



Quoting Whappeh (Reply 3):
Since I can't just type "no", I decided to type the extra words just to get attention.

LOL...I agree with you however UA is not planning on tying the not with anyone in 2010. What I think we can all look forward to is UA and COs alliance kicking into high gear.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineNws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13833 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
I still can't see the upside for CO.

There isn't one. I don't beleive CO actually wants UA the company, just certain assets. So we are keeping UA close in the meantime. I heard a crewmember say we are like the best friend who will kick them down the stairs at the best opportunity then cry at the funeral while we collect what we want from the estate.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5888 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13827 times:
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I hope the Continental brand is the winner if the marriage takes place.

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13824 times:



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 6):
I heard a crewmember say we are like the best friend who will kick them down the stairs at the best opportunity then cry at the funeral while we collect what we want from the estate.

I would not hold my breath for UA to fail anytime soon. Anyone who thinks UA is on the brink really needs to look at what has been going on at UA the last few quarters. They have regained allot of stability and have truly made fundamental changes in how they do business.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13757 times:



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 6):
I don't beleive CO actually wants UA the company, just certain assets

This is so true. And I mean no disrespct or ill will to any United employees, but, the truth is United needs to fail for the health of all US carriers (not just CO). And I'm only singling out United cause of their struggles, the reality is at least 2 majors need to fail in the country for the remaining set to return to long term profitability. Over capacity continues to be a major issue in this industry despite so called "cutbacks". Go on expedia and put any citypair in from the east coast to west coast 3 weeks to 4 months out and chances are the most expensive fair is like $400 or less.

I also think its unrealistic to assume because United's numbers are improving, they have long term viability. How can an airline in that much debt who has never turned a profit in ten years (and within the last 30 how many of those turned a dime?) think its going to continue in the next 10? Its like a family making $70k a year with $200,000 in credit card debt, up coming expenses for kids, cars, housing payments, etc, its impossible to catch up.

So yeah, CO is just waiting for the inevitable to pick what is left. Also, why would CO want to inherit all that debt? Both US/HP and NW/DL have yet to truly play out...for all my going on about how sick UAL is perhaps it will be one of those that will go down as well or instead.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13724 times:

Why is it that people still think UA is close to failure?

UA is no where near failure and has been beating wallstreet estimates for the last few quarters.

this "UA needs to fail" is getting VERY old.

http://www.traveldailynews.com/pages...ry-airline-into-a-low-fare-carrier

its a few months old but it shows very clearly who's long term debt ratio's are the worst

DL

Long-term debt ratio of industry debt [5] = 30.5%.

AA

Long-term debt ratio of industry debt [5] = 18.3%.

UA

Long-term debt ratio of industry debt [5] = 14.0%

CO

Long-term debt ratio of industry debt [5] = 10.3%

-m

  

[Edited 2009-12-31 12:06:03]

User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13705 times:



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
this "UA needs to fail" is getting VERY old.

Okay well then AA, DL, US, SOMEBODY needs to fail and soon to get the industry back to good health. Not sure why people don't get how trashed domestic yields are.


User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13635 times:

UA must finish the union contracts first, which expire today. And I believe that there will be something in the contracts that will talk about what the Unions will do if UA mergers with another company.

If UA and CO do tie the know I do not see a buy out like DL did with NW but a good old fashioned merger, like US and America West and I believe that we will have United Airlines based in Houston, Texas. With hubs at ORD, SFO, DEN, IAH, EWR and IAD, with a focus city in LAX and CLE.

But I do believe that amid competition and UA board wanting a golden parachute, I think that we will see a merger between the two because I do not see how they can now hold their own alone with DL and AA, I also think that if UA and CO merge that one of the airlines will buy US and then we will only have three major airlines in the USA which I could see DOJ having a say against that, but baring DOJ UA and CO should be one airline before this time next year.



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13608 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 12):
which expire today.

airline union contracts do not expire, they simply become amendable.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13525 times:



Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 11):
Okay well then AA, DL, US, SOMEBODY needs to fail and soon to get the industry back to good health. Not sure why people don't get how trashed domestic yields are.

Okay, so what's to stop any 'major' from simply cutting those routes on which you claim yields are trashed? No-one is forcing them to operate any route, and the asinine 'driving force' is the ludicrous market share mentality.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13522 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
I hope the Continental brand is the winner if the marriage takes place.

Not likely. If UA & CO were to merge it is almost a given they would keep the UA brand.

Quoting United1 (Reply 8):
I would not hold my breath for UA to fail anytime soon. Anyone who thinks UA is on the brink really needs to look at what has been going on at UA the last few quarters. They have regained allot of stability and have truly made fundamental changes in how they do business.

Although earlier in the year I though UA would be headed back to bankruptcy before this winter ended, I do not believe that to be true anymore. You are correct UA will not fail anytime soon. They have been on the right track the last few quarters. Nothing stellar, but moving in the right direction.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):

http://www.traveldailynews.com/pages...rrier

Not sure what your point is with this article. First, of all you pull out a statistic that has no bearing on bankruptcy. Second, the article itself identifies that only UA & US are likely candidates for bankruptcy - so you might want to use a different source to argue that UA is not close to failure / bankruptcy!

Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 11):
SOMEBODY needs to fail and soon to get the industry back to good health.

I totally agree. The U.S. domestic airlines are going to struggle until a significant airline does go under. The problem is no one wants to be the one to go under, so they will continue to make bad long-term decisions to survive the short-term which ultimately just makes the situation worse for all.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13449 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 5):
LOL...I agree with you however UA is not planning on tying the not with anyone in 2010. What I think we can all look forward to is UA and COs alliance kicking into high gear.

 checkmark 

Look to see how well the two work well together before talks of merging recommence.

Quoting N104UA (Reply 12):
If UA and CO do tie the know I do not see a buy out like DL did with NW but a good old fashioned merger, like US and America West and I believe that we will have United Airlines based in Houston, Texas. With hubs at ORD, SFO, DEN, IAH, EWR and IAD, with a focus city in LAX and CLE.

 checkmark 

This makes the most sense. As much as I'd hate to see the CO brand go, UA is the larger airline with more brand recognition (although one could argue that CO's brand has a better reputation, and thus a higher value). CO management would stay, although we'll have to see how Smisek does... CO has a history of great overall management and employee relations.

UA needs to get its house in order before it can merge, and it seems to be on the road to this right now.

I'm sure the two carriers will merge at some point, but that's the long run plan and both boards probably know it. The task now is for the ground work to be laid... increased cooperation and integration through Star Alliance while UA sets its contracts and finances in order.

As for hubs, CLE would be the big loser. IAD and EWR have large enough O&D markets to justify the existence of both at least in the short-medium run. IAD is lucrative for UA, and CO would never cede NYC to DL. DEN, IAH and ORD obviously stay. I see a continued strong presence in LAX... as DL seems to be creeping more and more into that market.

So if this merger does in fact go through, what does the future hold for AA? Are they big enough to survive on their own? Or would they need to acquire a smaller carrier to survive?


User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13418 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 14):
Okay, so what's to stop any 'major' from simply cutting those routes on which you claim yields are trashed? No-one is forcing them to operate any route, and the asinine 'driving force' is the ludicrous market share mentality.

Yes that is very true. Unfortunately the heads of the airlines don't see it that way. Since the birth of the industry 80 something years ago, airline execs have put ego over what makes sense, and a big part of that is routes, market domination and jets flying their logo all over the world. If we could get a hold of that (never will ) then yes, the need for an airline to fail would not be so important.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7481 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13386 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So if this merger does in fact go through, what does the future hold for AA? Are they big enough to survive on their own? Or would they need to acquire a smaller carrier to survive?

I doubt AA is looking to merge with anyone. AA is going to be fine on its own. They do need to change their game plan.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineBeryllium From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13261 times:



Quoting HNL-Jack (Thread starter):
Will UA & CO Decide To Tie The Knot In 2010?

I doubt they will.
They decided not to go for it in 2008, when all the "big guys" were thinking what to do and how to respond to the DL/NW merger announcement. Now that the dust caused by that DL/NW thing has pretty much settled, and UA and CO have found out that they can continue to operate as separate entities without going through all the pains associated with the merger/acquisition process, they will probably tend to keep the things the way they are, and remain two stand-alone airlines.

At the same time, I think that any form of consolidation would be beneficial to the industry. There are still too many airlines out there competing with each other, which makes it so hard to stay profitable for most of them.
Yes, less competition would be bad news for the travelling public, because it would mean higher fare levels, and the air travel would become more expensive for passengers.
But for the industry, i.e. for the airline companies (and their employees, as well), it would be beneficial, because it would give them more pricing power, and more opportunities to achieve higher yields. (For the employees, higher profitability of their companies would probably translate into higher wages/salaries, or at least into absense of requests from management to take 5-10-20-etc. % pay cut).


User currently offlineFun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13143 times:

I still believe Larry left b/c he didn't believe in the merger and Smisek said he'll make the deal happen.

I think the merger hinges upon the UA/CO alliance's ability to compete w/DL. If they can't, then they feel they have to merge to compete. They may already know it...they aligned a lot in the past 4 months with more to follow mid-year.


User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13138 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
I see a continued strong presence in LAX... as DL seems to be creeping more and more into that market.

I would see UA/CO ceeding LAX to DL and keeping strong at SFO

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So if this merger does in fact go through, what does the future hold for AA? Are they big enough to survive on their own? Or would they need to acquire a smaller carrier to survive?

I could see AA buying/merging with US to keep the size up with a combined UA/CO and DL/NW



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7481 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13123 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 21):
I could see AA buying/merging with US to keep the size up with a combined UA/CO and DL/NW

If they do, it will be the last thing they do.

AA already merged with a carrier in TWA. I think they might sit this round out. They are big enough to be fine for now.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFlyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13090 times:



Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 15):
Not likely. If UA & CO were to merge it is almost a given they would keep the UA brand.

based on what? CO is just as old ... just as recognized around the world ... and flies to more intl destinations that UA.


User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13063 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
I still can't see the upside for CO.

There isn't one. And if you are listening CO, this is a terrible idea.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
It would be much better to let UA fail and then cherry-pick from the pieces.

Well put. The DL/NW merger did nothing but prolong the unhealthiness of certain airlines. USAir and UA are among the worst two airlines in the United States. They both suffer from poor work ethic and constant bickering between union and corporate, not to mention management who has sucked everything that's good and wholesome from what a proper airline should be.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
Why is it that people still think UA is close to failure?

Because they haven't shown to us, their shareholders nor their customers that they are reliable and mature enough to grow as an airline.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 10):
this "UA needs to fail" is getting VERY old.

Get rid of the union bickering and we won't have to talk about it anymore. This is a serious issue for some of us who know the tell tail signs of a weak airline; those of us who have seen Braniff, Eastern and countless others go belly up.

It's beyond me how a well run airline like CO doesn't see these problems and act accordingly. Hopefully they do and we just like these threads to pop up every once in a while.



757: The last of the best
25 LAXtoATL : Continental does not have anywhere near the name / brand recognition worldwide as United Airlines! Even in the U.S. the UA brand has stronger name re
26 Ual777 : No its not. When thirty-odd of those destinations are in Mexico, then the number becomes less relevant. CO has 46 total widebodies. UA has 108, 52 of
27 Stitch : I would think the tie-ups UA is doing with CO and NH, combined with the one already in place with LH (perhaps expanded to include CO?) seems to me to
28 DeltAirlines : Bringing widebodies in is not the most apt point of comparison. Continental blankets Europe, serving down to tertiary European cities. A lot of this
29 Flighty : I can definitely see parts of UA being split among CO, JetBlue and US Airways. Happy New Year.
30 Deltaflyertoo : As much as I advocated UAL failing earlier in the thread, I want to respond to the CO vs. UA name if merged... I merged the new airline without a doub
31 Briguy1974 : This merger makes sense....Everyone who says that CO should let UA fail and than pick up the pieces is forgetting the fact that if UA does fail everyo
32 STT757 : Those numbers are a bit deceiving, you have to factor in CO's 757-200s. All 41 of CO's 757-200s are equipped with BusinessFirst cabins and AVOD and f
33 N104UA : That is a generalization, if you have a bad experience you remember it, if you have a good experience you don't. I had a horrible inflight crew on an
34 EA CO AS : That particular 'critical mass' equation is the equivalent of a competitive bodybuilder deciding to bulk up by adding cancerous tumors. US really off
35 United1 : Those cutbacks that you mentioned in your post took the equivalent of a legacy carrier out in terms of capacity. huh? I'm a perfectly satisfied share
36 HNL-Jack : UA uses widebody aircraft to Hawaii because their traffic can support it. You make it sound like assigning widebody equipment to Hawaii is a waste. F
37 DL Widget Head : Other than HA, I would think that DL offers more seats in and out of HI than UA, no?[Edited 2009-12-31 18:59:00]
38 United1 : I don't know it's close one way or the other. UA is offering 6765 seats on peak days each way beteen the US and Hawaii this summer.
39 DL Widget Head : Thanks United1...I was just trying to figure UA's daily average. It's not that close, DL is at on average 4056 into HI (including from Japan). Once D
40 CALMSP : and supposedly DL is supposed to add a route that NO ONE HAS EVER THOUGHT OF BEFORE.................or so it has been said on here.
41 DL Widget Head : Well, I haven't heard that rumor around campus yet but maybe JFK-HNL although that could hardly be considered "never to have been thought of before".
42 LAXtoATL : I find this extremely hard to believe. Now I only looked at HNL, I did not consider the other Hawaiian airports, but United is offering less than 300
43 MasseyBrown : The real force behind a merger would be if UA and CO see the new DL taking market share and making money doing so. So far in DL's merger that has *no
44 CALMSP : its in one of the other threads..........some DL guy was saying out-of-this-world route, that is not currently being served. Others have said JFK, bu
45 LAXtoATL : I added the following UA service: KOA-LAX: 752 x2 KOA-SFO: 763, 752 OGG-LAX: 763, 752 x2 OGG-SFO: 763 x2 LIH-LAX: 752 x2 LIH-SFO: 752 x2 This brings
46 DL Widget Head : I believe UA is destined to merge and CO still seems like the logical choice although, I've read some investment firm's analysis that a UA and US tie
47 HNL-Jack : I'm trying to get numbers from the state, but I think you'll find that the "new" DL numbers are not any greater than the previous combination of NW a
48 KGAIflyer : You've really put these points together into a thoughtful, global picture. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense.
49 KGAIflyer : Case in point would be the new Choice Menu product. Food service did hit a low point at United. On an IAD-LHR flight I was on in 2006, I ordered a lo
50 KGAIflyer : Did someone say USAir? I'll push. Anyone want to help?
51 FL787 : He said peak day so I am using Sat. June 19th. LAX-HNL: 777, 2x763, 752 1018 seats SFO-HNL: 2x777, 763, 752 1122 seats DEN-HNL: 763, 752 426 seats OR
52 KGAIflyer : No. UA does a land-office RJ business at LAX with its own concourse -- same as at SFO Continental alone could not handle all the connections at *eith
53 F9Animal : To be honest, Tilton has had that golden parachute strapped to his back for a long time now. I guess he will jump when the time is right. For now, he
54 LAXtoATL : Thank you for identifying what schedule he was using to obtain his numbers. If you remove NRT-HNL from your schedule (which isnt U.S. mainland), it i
55 DL Widget Head : I don't think he was disingenuous. He based his sample on... "peak" service in the "summer" implies that he picked a day when UA has the most flights
56 LAXtoATL : We are all entitled to our opinions, but I still think he was being disingenuous. Although he did say peak day, he could have easily said that UA ope
57 United1 : Funny that was the day I picked as well.... UAs average is lower but its still higher then anyone except HA. I said peak day summer service...to Hawa
58 United1 : I agree completely...a UA CO merger will happen the only question is when. As for US, UA broke off talks last year with them regarding a merger. In t
59 Aviationbuff08 : I'd much rather see one of the LCC, B6/FL/WN fail before any of the airlines you metioned as one of the LCC failure would help the yields. True, unle
60 EA CO AS : Actually, the only question is whether UA management will step aside and let CO run the combined entity. That's what seems to be the main sticking po
61 Lumberton : You may be the exception. As I recall, they exited the last round of bankruptcy circa USD$40/share. I suspect there are a few unhappy institutional (
62 LAXtoATL : that's fine. just tell me. not all of us knew that UA has an increased schedule of Saturdays.
63 Web : Since when is Hawaii not part of the US? Anyways, mergers are not always the best option. A key idea of a free market system is that different compan
64 DC8FanJet : Exactly...too many A-netters are bound and determined to 1) see United fail, and 2) merge CO & UA. United is doing just fine, and the addition of Con
65 MasseyBrown : Considering the relative progress of the two companies over the last 18 months or so, there is a strong argument to be made that the UA management is
66 Post contains links STT757 : Reference this article: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6787370.html
67 ExFATboy : "Recognition" is not always a good thing - United may be recognized outside the US more readily than CO, but it is 'recognized" as an intercontinenta
68 Daron4000 : Peak day implies that UA would have an increased schedule on a certain day of the week. For UA, they often add extra sections on Saturdays when spare
69 United1 : I suppose I could also ask the question why is COs management team so hell bent on running the company? I agree that Tilton is not the correct leader
70 Drerx7 : United1 - I respect your opinions here and I am a big fan of United...its in my top 3 after Continental and Southwest, but the arguments that you just
71 United1 : Oh absolutely UA and its Unions have had an "interesting" relationship since the 80s but CO also has quite a bit of union work to do this year....F/A
72 CO767FA : It will all be determined by the "investors" - nothing you, I or anyone else says will be heard. The name might be United, but the logo/branding imag
73 Post contains images LAXtoATL : It is much easier to change the perception of a known entity than introducing a new one. If UA & CO merged, it would be much easier to market the "ne
74 RJpieces : Interesting reading this thread. I always assumed in a CO-UA merger that the Continental brand would remain, but everyone here seems to think the oppo
75 HNL-Jack : Couldn't have said it better. That is the bottom line.
76 Post contains images Rampart : To that, I answer this: I think there are 2 myths in overstated proportion on A.net. 1) That there are too many airlines, and we must consolidate. Wi
77 FriendlySkies : Getting rid of the tulip would be an idiotic move, that logo is one of the most recognizable airline logos in the world, much more so than the CO glo
78 CO767FA : Based on what factual data? Or is this just your impression?
79 CO767FA : Yes, that is what I mean. The name of UA might be better recognized (I don't think it is, but that is only my opinion), but its logo and paint scheme
80 United1 : Really why do you think that or is that just an opinion?
81 RJpieces : Has anybody seen any renderings for what a logo would look like with Continental's globe and United's name??! It's hard to even picture it...
82 Rampart : Yes, there was a thread about it around a week ago. It was awkward, IMHO. But only fantasy at this point. -Rampart
83 STT757 : Continental also thinks the Continental brand will remain, thus no merger agreement.
84 United1 : From what I heard of the 08 talks the combined company was going to be called United. The sticking point was who was going to run it.
85 STT757 : Personally I wouldn't be opposed to the UA branding remaining, however the boys in Houston deserve to run the combined company.
86 LAXtoATL : I concur Choosing which name would remain in a merged company would be a very easy decision. The executives and investors that would be making that d
87 Tommy767 : Yeah but here's the thing about kicking UA down a flight of stairs: CO isn't doing as well as they were back in 1st and 2nd quarter '08. CO generally
88 LAXtoATL : If a merger were to happen, I think that is likely what they new company would look like. The question would be who would run the company?
89 ExFATboy : Uh, what about the South? CO is just as well known as UA, if not better, in the South, particularly Florida. CO is pretty much just as well known as
90 Coronado : Lets face it Delta is a heck of a good name for an airline: Delta is a short name pronouncable in just about any language in the world as it is phonet
91 Rampart : That's it, then. Call the CO + UA hookup, "Alpha". An even better name than Delta!
92 Coronado : But you better spell if ALFA. Tell many nationaltiies to pronounce 'ph' and it sounds like a rude noise caused by too many beans.
93 CO767FA : Who is your source? First- How did you come to this conclusion? Second - UA might be well known - but its what they are "known" for that makes the na
94 United1 : I'm not going to spend the time to look up the thread but some of that information is from this site and the rest is from friends at UA. What the air
95 CO767FA : I think they are known more recently for what they have become - in the past, they were an industry leader - now they are playing catch up. Just as I
96 United1 : I would suggest going back and re-reading all of the UA/CO merger threads then. All the information/answers you want to know is contained in there...
97 Tommy767 : CO is okay in florida. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination a powerhouse like Jet Blue, Air Tran, or even AA or DL. UA absolutely has thrown
98 LAXtoATL : Choosing which name stays after a merger is NOT about which airline is stronger in which markets (obviously each airline will have its comparative str
99 FUN2FLY : Exactly what Larry and Jeff said. Let's fact it, the majority of customers (the ones you want in first/business) are US based corporate airline contr
100 CALPSAFltSkeds : Regarding the name thing, I think it will partly depend on when and why the merger takes place. If the carriers are on equal footing financially, then
101 United1 : Oh absolutely something was broken UAs costs were out of control before 9/11 and that event simply pushed them over the edge. UAs has continued to re
102 MasseyBrown : Smisek and the Board of Directors have a legal obligation to at least evaluate and consider *any* merger or buy out proposal that comes in the door.
103 HNL-Jack : When I started this tread I was hoping it wouldn't turn into a debate on who the surviving carrier would be. But, since it partially has and to that p
104 Dank : As others have mentioned, if there is a merger the surviving name won't be necessarily the financially stronger of the partners. There are plenty of
105 MasseyBrown : Developing a victor-and-vanquished mentality is exactly what both companies will try to avoid however the merger issue will be worked out.
106 Hiflyer : well the typical ua (or dl or aa or whoever) must die to save the rest of the industry folks are back....been around since 2001...grin. From the sidel
107 American 767 : First let US leave Star and move to One World. It would be a good idea if US switches to One World. If they work on switching alliance now, they coul
108 Nuggetsyl : Co is not so shabby in japan. I see on this thread many people are forgetting air mike.
109 GoldenJet707 : I say bring the Pan Am name and logo back for the merged company and let's forget about this "pissing match" on A net about which company is better, l
110 EMB170 : IIRC UA has such capacity in Hawaii markets because they have the Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays contract (and probably many others from tour operators t
111 United1 : UA doesnt do the pleasant hawaiin contract anymore...UA has such cpactiy into Hawaii as its always been a massive market for UA. How is CO a bigger b
112 LAXtoATL : I definitely don't want to get into a "pissing match" either over this topic considering I don't particularly like or dislike either airline. However
113 Ocracoke : US/HP. Though I don't know if HP had any chance of changing the perception of US when they decided to keep the US name. ValuJet/AirTran. AirTran name
114 United1 : If I were you I'd take a look back at UAs history and see what technology/ideas UAs responsible for or was at least responsible for realizing that th
115 United1 : I never said that UAs hubs are perfect and your right there are gaps in UAs network (just like DL, AA CO and every other airline has) that's one of t
116 Ocracoke : I can't disagree with this point. In fact, I have already agreed: But since you were talking about UA's name around the world: ...(from this, I get t
117 Manfredj : It's not about how well they are "doing" quarter to quarter. It has everything to do with debt, profitability, holdings and market strength. Southwes
118 LAXtoATL : I am not certain if you are saying that CO should not merge with UA or if they merged they should retain the CO name. If you are saying they shouldn'
119 United1 : Thats the polar opposite of what COs management is saying....JS is on record as saying that he wants to see if the DL/NW merger causes DL to outperfo
120 Tommy767 : It absolutely does. This is the rumor going around with CO employees and is one of the reasons why back in 2008 CO held back with merging. In a broad
121 747400sp : I agree!!!! Now I hope they do not merge, it is sad to see NWA slowly going away.
122 Ocracoke : No fair. You were talking strictly about UA's 5 hubs. You didn't mention a thing about CO and US. Thus, on one hand you state that DL is lacking on t
123 Post contains links Manfredj : You mean this article: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...als-move-to-the-star-alliance.html "Now we will watch that merger and if things change
124 Post contains links United1 : No I mean this one... http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...ontinental_president_says_air.html "We are watching Delta to see whether Delta outperform
125 HNL-Jack : Twenty years ago CO was probably the worst airline ever, they were always late, the aircraft were all dingy and the employees were demoralized. It wa
126 FriendlySkies : People on these boards seem to forget not only that CO used to be one of the worst airlines in the country, but that UA, before it's recent troubles,
127 CALPSAFltSkeds : Well, maybe UA and CO are destined to merge and "get back together again". According to both websites, each airline was begin by Walter T. Varney. Ap
128 United1 : lol...you know I thought about that if nothing else it pays tribute to the common roots that both airlines have. Just to expand a bit on what you pos
129 Ocracoke : Because you leave out DL's partner in the west when you say that DL has missing west coast piece ("DL for instance does a poor job of coverage here o
130 United1 : Why should I explain what DL does or does not do to fill in the gaps in its route network that wasn't the purpose of my comment or the subject of thi
131 Slider : Delta was created by Varney too!
132 United1 : Are you sure about that I have never heard that and I can't find any source for that....as far as I know DL was founded as Huff Daland Dusters and ha
133 Slider : Yeah, I think you're right..I stand corrected!
134 Tommy767 : Yeah people on this forum like to forget about how much CO was struggling for such a long time through the mid-1990s (you could even make a case for
135 Etoile : And the bankers
136 Cws818 : Well, to be fair, CO/US are exclusively in the UA camp via Star, but AS is not exclusively in DL's camp since it retains significant links with AA. T
137 STT757 : CO was never as bad as folks make them out to be, I've been a Onepass member since '90 and have been flying CO frequently since '89 when I switched f
138 Congaboy : ...just like Pan Am. Drink more kool aid if you want to, UA is in a downward spiral and only sees periodic highlights because the people of Chicago d
139 Enilria : I think UA-US is much more serious than people give it credit. I don't know if CO is really at the top of the list any more. I don't think CO wants t
140 CO767FA : I love when people put this out - there is no way to quantify this statement. Is that why we continue to receive awards?
141 United1 : You know that UAs mainline fleet is younger then DL and AAs on average right? That they have 50 widebody aircraft on order and a narrowbody order due
142 Tommy767 : Most awards were received before 2006 right after Gordo left. Kellner was okay for a CEO but he arguably led CO into mediocrity compared to when Beth
143 STT757 : I was 15 back then, and I flew CO quite often so that's where my frame of reference is from. Just for reference how old were you in 1990?..
144 United1 : UA is working on a narrow body aircraft order in the beginning part of this year. Its looking like its going to be a run off between Boeing and Airbu
145 Tommy767 : I was 3 years old in 1990. I remember flying EWR-MCO on the ex-EA AB3 a few times in the early 1990s with the mismatched seats (how could you not rem
146 Congaboy : Okay, here's the deal. As a business traveler, I invariably have to fly a mainline/legacy carrier where other options do not exist. I live in the ATL
147 STT757 : MCO via ATL or from LGA?.. Also remember back then Eastern was also part of Onepass, Eastern had a historically strong presence in the Northeast (par
148 Jfkgaylga : "Give UA a few months Lumberton you may find that all the aircraft UA needs to have one of the youngest fleets in the skies are on suddenly on order..
149 United1 : It looks like UA is looking at the 737-900ER/321-200 to replace the oldest 757 aircraft and C Series or EMB190/195 for expansion and to backfill the
150 Tommy767 : oh I should have been more specific I meant 'ex-EA AB3' as in Continental A300 on the EWR-MCO route. I flew them mainly in 1993-1994 but by 1995 I re
151 United1 : I don't know, I haven't heard anything one way or the other. I do know that UA is recovering all of its domestic fleets F class seats in leather by t
152 Enilria : I've heard that too and certainly the shuttle is for sale as a stand-alone, but I don't think UA could buy CLT without somebody emerging to take the
153 CO767FA : Thanks - regardless of the number - CO has continued to win major awards from both US and foreign organizations. Yes, but it didn't happen overnight
154 HNL-Jack : Gordon was a visionary and although it took awhile, he created a "new" CO, not so much though product innovation, but rather though creating employee
155 Congaboy : I hear what you're saying, HNL...but these times are different. The landscape has changed, and to compare what CO went through to where UA is today,
156 Post contains links STT757 : To be fair we need to be accurate, CO awards post 2006; http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...any/globalcitizenship/awards.aspx[
157 HNL-Jack : In general I agree, but I would suggest that CO was much worse off than UA is today. And I agree that UA and CO are are not suitable partners today f
158 AirStairs : Could CO preserve it's corporate culture and financial or labor integrity by entering into a "pseudo-merger" a la AF/KL or even closer to the model of
159 CO767FA : Obviously - we went thru BK twice - but lets hope UA doesn't have to experience that sad state of affairs! Only time will tell.
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