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QF "Ace" 763s.  
User currently offlineMusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 872 posts, RR: 7
Posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Good Day.

Anyone know why the BA 767s operated by QF are referred to sometimes as the Ace version?

Thanks - musang

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9666 times:

Hi

They are fitted with our ACE galleys. Different shape trollies and cannisters to industry standard ATLAS. AT BA ACE is found on 747, 777, 767, 757, 737, and G-BUSx A320. All new delivery A319, A320 and A321 have industry standard ATLAS galleys.

Cheers


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9571 times:

 checkmark  What he said.

As cabin crew we have traditionally called them 'Ace' aircraft. The EP department wishes us to refer to them as 767 'Rolls Royce', as opposed to our standard 767 'GE'. This is to keep us consistent with pilots and engineers. Cabin crew will refer to them as 'Rolls Royce' more and more these days (around 60-70% if I had to take a guess). It is slowly catching on.

Catering still refer to them as 'Ace' for obvious reasons.

Another internal code used in the Res/Departure Control system (and on catering loading diagrams) is 76B.


User currently offlineMusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9272 times:

Brilliant.

Thanks!

musang


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9211 times:



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 1):

They are fitted with our ACE galleys.

Got to love BA galleys, we had a few ex BA 757s over at DP and each one had a different galley. They all took ATLAS however there were some really odd stowages that could barely even take a passenger meal tray. They had really old school bev makers which caught many a crewmember out (the hotplate didn't have a light on it as it was always on when the machine was running).

Still my favorite was G-OOOX, it had non-standard everything, the bar carts were all half size and red with smaller in height draws which were silver and still said "Air 2000" in red and gold. If it wasn't for the colour of the seats in the cabin you could have said it was the late eighties  Smile
Of course with it being the only non-standard it meant all hell would break loose if there was a last minute tech issue as the bar and catering could not be moved to another aircraft.

Good times  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9193 times:



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
Got to love BA galleys, we had a few ex BA 757s over at DP and each one had a different galley. They all took ATLAS however there were some really odd stowages that could barely even take a passenger meal tray. They had really old school bev makers which caught many a crewmember out (the hotplate didn't have a light on it as it was always on when the machine was running).

Still my favorite was G-OOOX, it had non-standard everything, the bar carts were all half size and red with smaller in height draws which were silver and still said "Air 2000" in red and gold. If it wasn't for the colour of the seats in the cabin you could have said it was the late eighties
Of course with it being the only non-standard it meant all hell would break loose if there was a last minute tech issue as the bar and catering could not be moved to another aircraft.

Talk to any QF cabin crew and they will say the same. They hate them



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1061 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Because they're fitted with RB211 engines.  Wink

User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6768 times:



Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 5):
Talk to any QF cabin crew and they will say the same. They hate them

We get an extra crew member in Economy due to the exit configuration (eight floor level exits), so that's a plus on the afternoon Perth Cityflyers. On other flights the extra crew member is not as big a deal.

The galley equipment is a MAJOR hindrance on short flights with hot meals - having to load meals on to the outside trays and into drawers inside the carts on a 55 minute hot dinner flight! In Business, particularly on longer sectors, the galley layout is annoying as is only having one lav at the front. I have seen so many heads hit by wayward oven doors! There is too many quirks with these galleys. Too many latches and buttons. The thing is that this aircraft have been in the fleet for almost 10 years - there is no excuse for not securing everything all of the time. You do have to be on your toes though.

It seems for every 'minus' with the Ace fleet there is a 'plus'. I wouldn't say I hate them - they are cool because they are different. The aircraft can be trying though.


User currently offlineAircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

I remember way back when AC send their 767's to QF for awhile, was that also the same
version Ace?


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5807 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4894 times:



Quoting Aircanada014 (Reply 8):
I remember way back when AC send their 767's to QF for awhile, was that also the same
version Ace?

If you are referring to when AN went down, those B767s were operated exclusively by AC crew. I would presume, given the size of BAs operation in Oz then, there was sufficient types of both equipment to cover whatever AC used, so I doubt any body remembers. [But I've been wrong before!]

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4722 times:



Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 7):
there is no excuse for not securing everything all of the time. You do have to be on your toes though.

A wise purser once told me "a tidy galley is a happy galley", I went on to use that motto right to the end, even taught it to the new kids  Smile

Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 7):
The galley equipment is a MAJOR hindrance on short flights with hot meals - having to load meals on to the outside trays and into drawers inside the carts on a 55 minute hot dinner flight!

The equipment difference used to be a royal PITA for us, mainly the lack of stowage space for our atlas boxes (it was shocking how many we carried on the 757s).

I'm a little unsure as to what you mean with the meals though, probably because scheduled airlines do things different to those of us in the charter game. We didn't have a problem with the meals per-say because the trays were already loaded into the carts and the hot meals were loaded into "hostie-boxes" (plastic boxes) which sit on top of the cart, when serving meals we would take out a tray and add a hot-bit and move on. Though of course on our first class things were totally different. Actually I think I may have just answered my own question, or confused myself Big grin

Quoting AAMD11 (Reply 6):
Because they're fitted with RB211 engines. Wink

Definitely  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Does Qantas EVER use the 767RR on International routes? In the early days, they were quite common trans-tasman, however did they also operate longer routes, eg to CGK or MNL?

User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4221 times:



Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):
We didn't have a problem with the meals per-say because the trays were already loaded into the carts and the hot meals were loaded into "hostie-boxes" (plastic boxes) which sit on top of the cart,

We offer full bar on top of the meal cart on all lunch, dinner and supper flights. Therefore 'hots' need to be placed in Atlas drawers inside the cart and 12-20 (depending on tray size) pre-loaded onto individual trays.

On our other aircraft we slide the oven rack directly into the cart (except 737-400, which is the same as above).

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 11):
Does Qantas EVER use the 767RR on International routes?

An ex-BA 763 has operated a PER-NRT rotation due to aircraft serviceability issues. A friend operated the flight around 2002-2003. The catering had to be substantially altered due to galley limitations. Economy had cold, boxed meals.

Given this fleet has such different galley equipment I doubt it has ever been used for international flights in a planned scenario - except when there was two or three on the Tasman run.


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4104 times:



Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 12):
We offer full bar on top of the meal cart on all lunch, dinner and supper flights. Therefore 'hots' need to be placed in Atlas drawers inside the cart and 12-20 (depending on tray size) pre-loaded onto individual trays.

Ah yes, I've seen this done on KL on the 733 though it was breakfast so not really a full bar  Wink

I did forget to mention actually one other difference with "Oscar X-Ray" was the meals were loaded like on the 734, the meal carts contained canisters (14 trays per canister, 2 canisters per cart) it didn't have any double carts. Downroute the empty canisters must be sealed, removed and stowed in the hold. Fresh canisters would then come up from the hold and be placed into the carts for the return flight. A genuine pain on turnaround sodding about changing cannisters then checking them.

We had the same system on the 737-400 for the meals but our 737-800s were much better.

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 11):
Does Qantas EVER use the 767RR on International routes? In the early days, they were quite common trans-tasman, however did they also operate longer routes, eg to CGK or MNL?

It can happen, I've had to do BGI-LGW on a 762ER because the "trusty" 763 broke (again). Then again I've used the 762 & 763 to cover for the 738  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

The BA 767's in s/haul configuration are a pain to work on hot meal flights too......the galley layouts are really ill thought out - QF colleagues you have my sympathy!


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3868 times:



Quoting Edina (Reply 14):
The BA 767's in s/haul configuration are a pain to work on hot meal flights too......the galley layouts are really ill thought out - QF colleagues you have my sympathy!

As an aside Edina, which of the aircraft you've worked have had the best and worst galley layouts? And if you've worked a BA 767 on shorthaul, have you worked any other ACE galley fitted aircraft with BA and how did they compare?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Does QF use the Doors 2 or Doors 4 galley, or both?

I've also noticed, for some reason, VH-OGV is a bit of an odd ball and has a small galley between the J and Y cabins. Is this galley used?


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3674 times:



Quoting Jackbr (Reply 16):
Does QF use the Doors 2 or Doors 4 galley, or both?

Doors 1 is Business galley. Doors 2 and 4 are Economy galley. On a really light load there may only be Economy catering at Doors 2. They service the Doors 1 and 2 galleys through the same door, pushing carts and boxes up and down the aisle. Whether they use Doors 1 or Door 2 to do this depends on the caterer on the day.

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 16):
I've also noticed, for some reason, VH-OGV is a bit of an odd ball and has a small galley between the J and Y cabins. Is this galley used?

OGD*-F and OGV are the mid-galley config. Previously OGD-F were a Tasman config with 20 Dreamtime Business seats with PTVs. These were modified and dedicated to Tasman flying. The mid-galley resulted from discussions between the FAAA and the company following the removal of a FA on these flights. OGD-F became domestic aircraft with 30 Millennium Business seats (no PTVs) and a slight reconfig in Economy.

OGV was an all-Economy aircraft (with mid-galley) for about two years at domestic post the Ansett collapse, then went to Australian Airlines. Upon Australian's closure it came to back to domestic, but still has international brewers and water boilers and slightly different galley stowage locations. It is what is known as a Hybrid galley. The other Hybrid aircraft are OGI-L (no mid-galley), also from Australian.

The mid-galleys are very much in use. They are serviced from Doors 1. Catering is simply split between the mid and aft galleys. The mid-galley aircraft have a smaller aft galley and one less mid-cabin lav. OGV has retains the third mid-cabin lav and therefore has three less Economy seats.

* OGD has been retired.

The anomalies of the Qantas 763 fleet intrigued me - even as someone who works on them!

Rolls Royce (ZXA-G)
International (OGA*-C, M, R-U)
Domestic (OGG-H, N-Q)
Domestic Hybrid (OGI-L)
Mid-Galley (OGD-F)
Mid-Galley Hybrid (OGV)

* OGA has been retired.


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3602 times:



Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 17):

Thank you for a very informative post. The Qantas 767's have always interested be from a pax perspective after flying on -OGV and noticing the mid-cabin galley. Prior to that I obviously had only flown RR and domestic GG

Out of curiosity, do all QF Flight Attendant's know the rego's of all the aircraft they operate, and would all Qantas crew know, for example, OGA-C, M, R-U are international aircraft, OGD-F are mid cabin galley configured etc, or are they just aware some aircraft are different and wouldn't know a thing about RR/GE, regos etc. Obviously FA's with aviation interest such as yourself would know all this.


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3535 times:



Quoting Jackbr (Reply 18):
Out of curiosity, do all QF Flight Attendant's know the rego's of all the aircraft they operate,

Long Haul crew seem much more aware of what config a particular rego would have as it impacts how many FAs and BFAs (First Business FA) are on the particular sector. And each route/flight no. will normally use the same config (Kangaroo or Pacific or 2-class 744, for example).

All 734s and 738s and 767RRs have standard configs and crew will know the rego block for each aircraft type. Although we fly on the 330s much less now days, most crew will know the config for a particular rego. I have a feeling that when (if?) the 332s come back from Jetstar then it will be the new oddball fleet at Short Haul.

With respect to the 763GEs crew are less likely to know the config (but will always know the mid-galley aircraft, for some reason) however it really does not matter. Our crewing levels and work positions for all 763GEs is the same. Emergency procedures for crew are identical and the emergency equipment location is almost identical. For this reason crew are less likely to know the config for a particular rego. Many of the aircraft have only recently been reconfigured from international - so crew may not be aware it has been converted. The 763 fleet is really the oddball fleet so it is harder for crew to remember the regos - especially when it doesn't really matter (as long as it's OG-something!).


User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3499 times:



Quoting Edina (Reply 14):
The BA 767's in s/haul configuration are a pain to work on hot meal flights too......the galley layouts are really ill thought out - QF colleagues you have my sympathy!

We have always wondered if BA crew know how bad these galleys are - or if it is just normal to you?! My colleagues will often asked if the British work under workplace safety and OHS legislation?!


User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3339 times:



Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 20):
We have always wondered if BA crew know how bad these galleys are - or if it is just normal to you?! My colleagues will often asked if the British work under workplace safety and OHS legislation?!

The 767s at BA are OK to work on if it's a long haul config, but on short haul with converter seats it can be a nightmare.....Business can either be just half of the forward cabin on a LCA for example or all the way down to D3L/R on a Moscow DME.

In Club/Business we usually just use the D1 galley unless the load is more than 40-50 up front. Any flight under 2h30m also means we are return catered so there is always some element of swapping trolleys from galley to galley.

Economy isn't much of a problem as we offer so little on flights under 2h30 - it's when we do the longer short haul flights (2h30-4h30) that the 767 is a real pain. Caterers ex LHR never balance the number of hots to the number of trays in each galley - the aft galley on the short haul aircraft, so we will get up to 78 trays but 100 hots, so there always has to be military style planning for a hot meal on these whatever the load.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
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