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2010 Philippine Airlines Thread  
User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 17019 times:

Hey all. A happy New Year to everyone.

I sense a great year for Philippine Airlines- addition of the 777-300ER, Brisbane, enhancement of longhaul services, etc. As such, was wondering if opening up a 2010 PAL thread would be of value.

Here are my thoughts.

CATICLAN

PALEX/Air Philippines recently restarted services to Caticlan (Dec 1 2009), in time for the big Christmas/New Years exodus to Boracay. It appears that the ATO/CAAP had no issues with the Q300 allowing PAL to resume service there, but not the MA-60 or the ATRs operated by Zest Airways/Cebu Pacific respectively. Also noticing that even with the resumption of services to Caticlan, that PAL is still operating four daily frequencies to Kalibo using a mix of A319/A320s,

Anyone out there have an idea of:

-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on SEAIRs operations to Caticlan as it was previously the only carrier able to provide direct services to MPH due to the ATO restrictions?
-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on PALs own mainline service to Kalibo.
-was there an influx of passengers resisting Cebu Pacific or Zest Air Kalibo services in favor of/once direct Caticlan flights were resumed by PALEX

Ive taken the coach Kalibo-Caticaln transfer three times in the past three years. Picturesque as it was, it was not at all ideal.

BRISBANE/MELBOURNE/SYDNEY

Its been announced that PAL is to resume service to Brisbane on March 16. Whoo Hoo! At the same time, Sydney will be an all 777-300ER destination, albeit a reduction of services to five weekly from a seasonal high of seven. The reduction of frequencies to five for both Sydney and Melbourne in the Summer Schedule probably normalizes capacity during that shoulder season. Realizing that the deployment of the 777-300ER in Australia is temporary until full Category 1 is awarded (enabling Transpacific services to the US), can we see a shift to the A340-300 or the Boeing 747-400 to Australia in the near future? This rationalizes long haul flying for PR and makes consistent, hard Mabuhay Class offering. (I trust that the PR still intends to reconfigure the A340-300 fleet). To Meltraveller, how did PAL do this holiday season. I believe both Melbourne and Sydney saw the 747-400s numerous occasions. Is PAL making any waves at all in the OZ-North Asia traffic?

ECONOLIGHT PLUS

Most recently, PAL upped the ante on Econolight flights- now offering meals/beverages, seat selection anywhere in the aircraft (previously no meals/drinks/back of the bus) on flights were Econolight pricing was available. Though it alienated a handful of passengers who got the sticker applied to their seats treatment, PAL surely would have fared worse without it. Would you consider the experiment a failure or a success? Will we see its disappearance as a marketing ploy in 2010

Im sure there are many other Philippine Airlines topics that can be discussed. (ie Europe, the Middle East, Category 1, Arroz Caldo, Virgin Cola/Carlbergs Beer , Crappy airline amenity kit, 'Are you kidding me? Chicken Inasal again!?') that we can have agree to disagree on.

Your thoughts?

120 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 17027 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Thread starter):
...until full Category 1 is awarded (enabling Transpacific services to the US)...

This, to me, is the big question. Can anybody shed any light on the FAA safety audit situation? (I assume it did not happen last fall, as was suggested on one of the past PR threads.) Any idea when -- if? -- it is scheduled now?

Happy New Year all!

bb


User currently offlinePRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16993 times:

ICAO conducted a safety audit of the CAAP last October and it was reported that CAAP fared well.
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/hom...os-audit-of-safety-efficiency.html

Excerpt:

THE Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) was audited for overall safety and efficiency by the International Civil Aviation Organization (Icao) the last week of October and bested the global average of 40.31 with a score of 28.19. The lower the score, the less corrections are needed.

The Icao-Universal Safety Audio Program score is a percentage of a given set of 987 questions. The audit team was led by CJ Collins, who conducted the audit from October 18 to 29.

CAAP Director General Ruben Ciron said the questions are focused on critical areas such as primary legislation and civil-aviation regulations, civil-aviation organization, personnel licensing and training, aircraft operations certification and supervision, airworthiness of aircraft, aircraft accident and incident investigation, air navigation service, and aerodromes.



There is no confirmation when the FAA Safety Audit is scheduled but I have been heard rumors that it will be in March.

[Edited 2010-01-04 21:49:32]

User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16818 times:

Thanks for the article PRFLYER. That is real encouraging. Perhaps the CAAP has its act together afterall.

Does the CAAP have a formal website?

There was word that local San Diego officials were vocal in support/endorsement of PALs SAN service application and was following the FAA re-categorization with great interest. How far along was the application process prior to the downgrade and does anyone know how prepared PAL is to launch it upon lifting? Or does the prioritization go to 77W ops or increased LAX/SFO frequencies


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16796 times:



Quoting PRFLYER (Reply 2):
There is no confirmation when the FAA Safety Audit is scheduled but I have been heard rumors that it will be in March.

Thanx for the update, 'FLYER. I would consider March to be good news that things could move along nicely this year.

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3):
There was word that local San Diego officials were vocal in support/endorsement of PALs SAN service application and was following the FAA re-categorization with great interest

That word is extremely correct! Needless to say, this is a very big deal for those of us in San Diego - professionals and amateurs alike!

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3):
How far along was the application process prior to the downgrade and does anyone know how prepared PAL is to launch it upon lifting?

Two great questions that I've asked a few times and would love to know the answer to. The last I know is that the application for SAN-(YVR)-MNL was filed almost exactly 2 years ago (on 1-10-08) with requested approval by March 1, 2008, in order to commence service during the "fourth quarter of 2008". (Maybe that should give us an approximate time-frame for PR.)

I have seen no evidence that the application has been approved (with the understandable "subject to a successful FAA safety audit", or something similar) so I assume the DOT will not act on the app at all until such time as PR passes the safety audit. HOPEFULLY, the DOT will act quickly if and when the FAA is happy...

I've got my fingers, eyes and toes crossed about this!

bb


User currently offlinePRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 16757 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3):
Does the CAAP have a formal website?

Here you go. http://www.caap.gov.ph/index.htm


User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16644 times:

Thanks for the link PRFLYER

I was able to peruse the site and for the most part impressed with it. Not sure how long it took to get CAAP to put it up (or if it merely took over the old ATO website), but from a transparency and content standpoint, it partially remedies or satisfies what the FAA had noted as deficiencies prior to CAT2 (publication of regulations, protocol, permits, structure, etc). It certainly is more useful than most Philippine government sites, but then again, Im sure none of them are being scrutinized as much as the CAAP. Some of the documentation is a little of out of date (ie list of emergency equipment, aircraft/passenger movement, etc) but at least the foundation is there. Lets hope it gets maintained periodically.

It would also be interesting to compare the requirements of the 'vacated' inspector positions under the CAAP with that of what the FAA mandates on its own. Glad to see the qualifications spelled out, if only to weed out 'appointed' consultants or FOF.

San Diego would be a welcome addition to the route network. I hope they ultimately file for Seattle as well, doing a MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver (leaving that gateway to serve LAS and either ORD/EWR/JFK). The A340 can do MNL-SAN eastbound year round. The A340 can do SEA-MNL westbound yearround (but not SAN). Most might say that you would lose out of local traffic on the SAN-SEA sectors as the US government does not allow carriage between two domestic points, but I cant imagine PR making money on YVR-SAN either. (at least it does not seem to have the potential local traffic that a YVR-LAS would have)

SANFAN, do you know what kind of incentives the local San Diego officials (if any) have given PAL to initiate service there? What would be your guess as to which terminal/concourse/handling agent would be performing services, and with jest, cater the Chicken Inasal dish that seem to appear on every PAL menu, regardless of where you go. Love the chicken, but enough already!


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16539 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6):
San Diego would be a welcome addition to the route network. I hope they ultimately file for Seattle as well, doing a MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver (leaving that gateway to serve LAS and either ORD/EWR/JFK). The A340 can do MNL-SAN eastbound year round. The A340 can do SEA-MNL westbound year-round (but not SAN). Most might say that you would lose out of local traffic on the SAN-SEA sectors as the US government does not allow carriage between two domestic points, but I cant imagine PR making money on YVR-SAN either. (at least it does not seem to have the potential local traffic that a YVR-LAS would have)

A few alternative routings for SAN-service have been discussed here over the last year or 2, including SEA, HNL, and even LAS, but YVR seems to be the option being pursued by PR -- as in, their application for SAN service. I can almost guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!

I do think there might be a bit more local traffic between SAN and YVR than most people think but that routing would probably also mean a reduction in their YVR-LAS service (unless they are able to op more than 7x weekly between YVR and MNL.) I wish I knew what the options really are and how many of the many pieces, besides the FAA safety audit, are in place to make this all come together and start.

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6):
SANFAN, do you know what kind of incentives the local San Diego officials (if any) have given PAL to initiate service there? What would be your guess as to which terminal/concourse/handling agent would be performing services

I will have to look at the intl incentive program again but I know it involves landing fees, facilities-leases, and marketing assistance. I also know that it is very competitive with incentives in place at most other airports. (Note: I seem to remember that a SEA-routing might prevent the eligibility of PR to take advantage of the intl incentive.)

I can also assure anyone interested that SAN really wants this service to happen and they are working very hard to help make it so. (I know for a fact that the SDIA folks did lots of things "above-and-beyond" to help make Zoom's brief op's at SAN as good as possible -- read: successful.)

PR should operate from gate 20/21 (T2E) which is our FIS gate and our CUTE ticket counter/gate check-in facilities are located there as well and will nicely accommodate PR's needs. As far as who might handle above- and below-wing support for PR, I really have no idea who is available at Lindbergh these days, sorry.

bb


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16458 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Thread starter):
Would you consider the experiment a failure or a success? Will we see its disappearance as a marketing ploy in 2010

The whole Econolight seems like a failure, probably due to only being available online. My experiences so far:

OZC-MNL - 3 pax (A319)
HKG-MNL - 5 pax (A330)
MNL-HKG - 5 pax (A320)
CEB-MNL - 0 pax (B744), we were late for check-in and placed in the mid cabin...



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16363 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!

I can imagine the level of goosebumps on the arms of a first timer flying that narrow corridor between buildings (on an A340 nonetheless!) prior to landing. Ive been flying through SAN many times (mostly from SEA on Alaska) on 737s and its almost forget to breathe for a second or two.

SAN, I assume any flight of San Diego westbound would require some sort of weight restriction (or at the very least, an A340 with 1/2 tank worth of fuel due to the tricky situation at Lindbergh). That rules nonstop MNL or perhaps even HNL out of the picture. A triangular via LAS (ie MNL-SAN-LAS) wont work as the westbound transpac would require a technical somewhere enroute due range/headwinds), leaving either YVR/SEA.

Given the following hypothethical schedule based on actual WINTER SEASON block hours:
*based on PR106 scheduling ex-MNL

MNL-YVR-SAN 1700 1400 1530 1815
SAN-YVR-MNL 1945 2215 2345 0530

MNL-SAN-SEA 1730 1600 1800 2100
SAN-SEA-MNL 1800 2100 2230 0400

a) would an arrival time of 1600 Scenario B (nonstop) offer more connections opportunities out of San Diego than an 1815 arrival (Scenario A)?

b) would an departure time of 1800 Scenario B through SEA) offer more connecting opportunities from SAN than 1945 (through YVR)? (ok perhaps that is negligible)

c) would you save one landing/takeoff fee cycle in YVR by doing the route triangularly (ie not having to land/take off, land/take off YVR

One negative I see is crew staffing on the SAN-SEA sector. At least in via YVR, you can have a turnaround crew to YVR-SEA-YVR like the current YVR-LAS-YVR. In this case, you would either require the ex SAN crew to do the entire crossing to MNL or have a separate crew doing just SAN-SEA

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 8):
The whole Econolight seems like a failure, probably due to only being available online. My experiences so far:

OZC-MNL - 3 pax (A319)
HKG-MNL - 5 pax (A330)
MNL-HKG - 5 pax (A320)
CEB-MNL - 0 pax (B744), we were late for check-in and placed in the mid cabin...

Lufthansa747, do the numbers below reflect the number of times youve flown Econolight on the said segments or the number of Econolight passengers on a given flight you were on where you see the Econolight sticker? I recall the PAL website crashing during the REALDEAL promo so it appears enough people have access online to make it viable.

BTW, on the Philippine Airlines Facebook account, there is a discussion point regarding Econolight and one's dignity that is an interesting read. It pre-empts PALs announcement of an improved Econolight product


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16318 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9):
I assume any flight of San Diego westbound would require some sort of weight restriction (or at the very least, an A340 with 1/2 tank worth of fuel due to the tricky situation at Lindbergh). That rules nonstop MNL or perhaps even HNL out of the picture.

It was discussed in a few past Philippine threads that even some PAL flights from LAX and SFO have to make tech stops in GUM before continuing on to MNL.(I guess it's those headwinds).


Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6):
MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver

That would be really cool if they had that routing.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
I can almost guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!

Regardless of where it stops, we'll take it! We would get a new asian carrier,plus a new
Canada flight!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
I do think there might be a bit more local traffic between SAN and YVR than most people think but that routing would probably also mean a reduction in their YVR-LAS service (unless they are able to op more than 7x weekly between YVR and MNL.) I wish I knew what the options really are and how many of the many pieces, besides the FAA safety audit, are in place to make this all come together and start.

I remember about a year or so ago, PAL increased their MNL-YVR frequency,we were all
hoping a couple of those flights were PAL's way of setting everything up to launch SAN
as soon as the category-1 rating was reinstated. I hope that's the case.My question is,
if PAL does launch SAN soon, what are the connections from MNL to NRT?,If someone
wanted to travel to NRT from SAN, could they connect through MNL?



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16261 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9):
if PAL does launch SAN soon, what are the connections from MNL to NRT?,If someone
wanted to travel to NRT from SAN, could they connect through MNL?

HI SANMAN66 (have you met SANFAN) lol

Assuming that the SAN flights (regardless of the routing via YVR or anywhere else) arrives like the rest of the Transpac bank of flights (btw 4:00-5:30am), there is a flight to NRT via CEB that departs MNL around 5:30 (it retrospect, maybe this would be a tight connection). Its not a direct flight per say as the flight number changes in Cebu (same aircraft though). If you took that, it would be a SAN-XXX-MNL-CEB-NRT. That is a long, out of the way to go. If you need Mabuhay Miles, I guess it wouldnt be too bad.

Otherwise, there is a DL/NW flight that leaves around 8:00am directly to NRT.

The nonstop PAL flight to Narita from Manila leaves mid afternoon so it would be a six-seven hour layover for you


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16242 times:
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Quoting Iflypal (Reply 11):
HI SANMAN66 (have you met SANFAN) lol

Yup!

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 11):
The nonstop PAL flight to Narita from Manila leaves mid afternoon so it would be a six-seven hour layover for you

I'd figure if we can't get a nonstop SAN-NRT due to the terrain issues (Hopefully the 787
will remedy that), the PAL flight to MNL could help with an Asian connection to NRT. What
still surprises me is that HA has not made it easy for anyone from SAN to connect to their
HNL-MNL flight?

 Sad



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16186 times:



Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):
What
still surprises me is that HA has not made it easy for anyone from SAN to connect to their
HNL-MNL flight?

That'll change as soon as PR announces service I can guarantee. DL, UA, CO, HA will surely defend their WC-Asia turf. Imagine an AS codeshare out of SAN and SEA? It sure seems that AS codeshares with everybody.

Either way, Im rooting for you guys. Application says SAN-YVR-MNL. At the very least, I would expect SAN-YVR fares to go down a lot ($450 two weeks advance notice...yikes!) when this happens. Hope it comes to fruition soon.

Who owns the SAN-NRT O&D traffic? DL? UA? AA?


User currently offlinePRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16001 times:

Is RP-C7776 in the paint shop now? It is scheduled to be delivered on January 18. I don't see her in the flightline at Paine Field anymore.

User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15940 times:

Well guys I have had a really bad experience with PR involving their recent decision to axe the daytime MNL-SYD service.

My good lady and I were booked on PR211 MNL-SYD on 22 Mar (with an onward connection to CHC on NZ) returning from our annual trip to the Phils, a booking we paid for some 6 months previously. Just about 3 weeks ago we get a call from our travel agent telling us that PR are no longer operating that flight and had rebooked us on PR209 leaving MNL 36 hours later! Bad enough huh? It gets worse!

As that rebooking would have us arriving back in CHC 10 hours after I was supposed to be back at work, I told the travel agent to get onto PR to get a better booking...on the dates we originally booked. Wait for this...the agent couldn't contact PR as the SYD office was closed for a Christmas Party! I asked them why not contact PR at MNL, well they warned me that contacting PR in MNL was not too reliable. I gave it a try myself and 'not too reliable' was a gross understatement. 5 unreturned calls 3 e-mails unreplied and the one time I managed to speak to a supervisor (the frontline customer service agents were frankly useless) he said I was being unreasonable when I told him I needed to be back at CHC at a certain time.

Now this was all happening about 8 weeks before our outbound journey, so I told PR that if they could not get me back to CHC in time then they should re-book us with another carrier. They refused to do this. I then told them I would have no choice but to cancel and rebook with another carrier. At first they said I would be subject to cancellation fees, until I pointed out to them my cancellation was as result of their (voluntary) schedule change less than 3 months before the date of outbound travel and as such I was entitled to a full refund. The supervisor then laughed at me and said it would be 8 weeks before I got a refund, leaving me no time to book with another carrier. It took great pressure (with threat of legal action) from both me and my travel agent to force PR to process my refund within 10 days.

When I relayed this to my travel agent, she relayed this to the company's NZ manager she very nicely replied to me saying that they have had a string of complaints regarding PRs handling of this and that as a result they will no longer be actively promoting PR sales.

Now don't get me wrong I know carrier may have to alter schedules for commercial reasons and that things can go wrong for even the best of carriers. But my measure of the quality of a carrier is how well they manage when things do go pear-shaped. This was my first experience of PRs 'customer service'. It will also be my last.

Now rebooked on SQ.

[Edited 2010-01-09 15:30:32]

[Edited 2010-01-09 15:32:39]

[Edited 2010-01-09 15:34:15]

User currently offlineLeamside From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15905 times:

Though the idea of Clark replacing Manila as a premier airport has been around for many years it has been thought by some as absurd and laughed at by others. Lately, a couple of articles have been published:

"Clark to replace NAIA as RP's premiere airport" http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx...534977&publicationSubCategoryId=66

and

"Clark International Airport ready to become Manila's premier airport"
http://www.eturbonews.com/13728/clar...ady-become-manilas-premier-airport

What are your thoughts on this development?


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15895 times:



Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9):
Lufthansa747, do the numbers below reflect the number of times youve flown Econolight on the said segments or the number of Econolight passengers on a given flight you were on where you see the Econolight sticker?

Number of passengers. Only flown once Econolight on each of those segments. I'd always fly it from HKG but have to fly 5J due to the 7-day max stay.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlinePagophilus From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 15880 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 15):
When I relayed this to my travel agent, she relayed this to the company's NZ manager she very nicely replied to me saying that they have had a string of complaints regarding PRs handling of this and that as a result they will no longer be actively promoting PR sales.

I haven't had any bad experiences with PAL, however my general experience is that the Philippines is not good at dealing with emergencies/irregularities. And most staff (and probably even supervisors) are not familiar with rules & regulations. You have to know your stuff and be prepared to argue and prove things otherwise you might get taken for a ride. Acting authoritative and appearing to know what you are doing takes a priority over service.


User currently offlineFlyhigh@tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15860 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 15):

Am very sorry to hear about your bad experience with PR, but wait...if you want worse try 5J! Customer service...i don't think anybody in that airline knows a thing about that! I will recount my experiences in detail later as i have to go now...but all i have to say is...i like 5J's network and frequency. true they are a low cost carrier but why oh why on earth dont they try to emulate other ASIAN or MIDDLE EASTERN low cost carriers which keep prices low but still manage to leave a smile on your face once you have flown with them. Now everybody can fly ...how about making atleast most who fly happy?


User currently offlinePRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15851 times:

Speaking of 5J, they are in the news again.

Airlines explains offloading of special child

[Edited 2010-01-09 17:57:57]

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4802 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15753 times:

Quoting Leamside (Reply 16):
Though the idea of Clark replacing Manila as a premier airport has been around for many years it has been thought by some as absurd and laughed at by others. Lately, a couple of articles have been published:

[.....]

What are your thoughts on this development?

One only has to look at these photos.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Struzzovolante - Roma Spotters Club
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Spijkers


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tchavdar Kostov - BGspotters
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Adrian Falconer


and compare them with this.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Arcellana


.....to see the merit in the proposal. NAIA is existing cheek by jowl with the surrounding community, that there's no more room for development. That triangle formed by the two runways and the MIA Road is, in most other airports, part of the development plan. The ideal limit would be Maricaban Creek (visible in the photos) which could have formed a natural boundary for the airport.

It made no sense for those in Government then to explore the acquisition of the cheap fields, fishponds and salt beds in the area to add to the already "astronomical" cost of the undertaking! Good luck getting the owners part with their properties now. Unfortunately, in the post-war Manila of the 50s, focus was in getting one up and running and didn't bother about the creeping ramshackle buildup at its perimeter. Not too much study went into future needs, nor did the planners foresee the metropolis' population exploding to 20M now or thereabouts.

Contrast those with the almost "blank canvass" of the bottom photo, but with well-secured perimeters and important infrastructure already in place. As pointed out, the expressways and railways have to be upgraded well ahead of any new work. I remember routinely making the distance from Balintawak to Balibago in an hour. The proposed diversion through Commonwealth should improve on that time significantly and avoid the horrors of EDSA.

Admittedly, folks in Southern Luzon will have a dim view of such development, and must still be afforded international flights at NAIA. Also, multinational companies operating in Metro Manila might resist the move, and as a consequence, so too might the airlines going after their business. Slowly, a bit of success can be seen in the effort to convince manufacturers to locate outside NCR. In the end, it would be a balance of whether the Philippine economy a decade or two hence could sustain a main international gateway and a city airport at the same time. The country can't afford the luxury of experimentation neighbors had with Suvarnabhumi and Sepang. Comparing distances, BKK is 28 km from downtown with good highways, KUL is about 50 km from Subang. I have some misgivings about the mooted prices, although I wish it would be realized within my lifetime.  

Oops, I forgot one thing. Mt. Pinatubo!  bomb 

[Edited 2010-01-09 23:58:54]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15674 times:



Quoting Pagophilus (Reply 18):
You have to know your stuff and be prepared to argue and prove things otherwise you might get taken for a ride

Oh don't I know it. Before I undertook a career change to become a Registered Nurse, I worked for LC in EDI. In addition my late father was a manager with EI for 30+ years. So I knew pretty much my rights.

Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 19):
Am very sorry to hear about your bad experience with PR, but wait...if you want worse try 5J! Customer service...i don't think anybody in that airline knows a thing about that!

Funnily enough I have had nothing but positive experiences with 5J.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15660 times:



Quoting Leamside (Reply 16):
What are your thoughts on this development?

Personally, I remain skeptical that Clark will replace NAIA anytime soon. From one of the articles you cited:

Quote:
Another urgent issue will be the link to Manila. So far, it takes over two hours by car to reach the airport and urgent work must be done to enlarge the highway and offer a proper public transportation. “We are very conscious of the saturation of the road system in Manila but it should get better with the opening in 2010 of a new ring road in Quezon City. The completion of the Northern Commuter Train System will also provide a direct rail link from Clark to Manila Northern Station,” adds Luciano.

Even with improvements in the transportation system, and the traffic from NAIA to Makati and Quezon, business is mostly conducted in Manila. Can you imagine the havoc if something happens to the rail links from Pampanga?

I think the government would be better off exercising "eminent domain" and expanding NAIA. By all means, develop Clark, but not as a replacement for the capital's premier airport.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21):
Oops, I forgot one thing. Mt. Pinatubo! bomb

Yes, let's not forget that!  Wink



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15650 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23):
Can you imagine the havoc if something happens to the rail links from Pampanga?

This is what occurred to me. In monsoon/typhoon conditions you could have CRK fully operational but be totally cut off from Metro Manila by flooded rail lines and roads.

IMHO CRK is the right facility in the wrong place.


25 Iflypal : [ I strongly agree. Here are my thoughts, naive as they may be, 1. Closing down the Manila Domestic Terminal. Is there a fundamental reason the facili
26 DEVILFISH : Please excuse us for veering off-topic a little more - it's just that the subject of the country's premier airport and its "national" carrier are so i
27 MarcoPoloWorld : Exactly. Clark is in Pampanga, and has very little to do with Manila. It (CRK) is an excellent alternative gateway for those with destinations in Pam
28 Iflypal : By all means...no objections here. Agreed. Just to clarify, would that include transfering Cebu Pacific to T1 from T3 or just current residents of MD
29 FlyHigh@Tom : Zest was NOT able to pull it through, but however other carriers like Air Asia, Tiger, Asiana and Cebu pacific are able to sustain operations from Cl
30 FlyHigh@Tom : UPS at CRK Sunday mornings always seem busy for UPS at Clark....I saw a B767 followed by a B757 followed by a B747 all depart within 10 mins of each o
31 FlyHigh@Tom : ZEST AIR Heard from reliable sources that Zest Air plans to start MNL-SIN from this month end onwards! Good luck to them. they do realize the stiff co
32 Iflypal : Surprisingly, Zests website shows new services to both Singapore and Shanghai. Interesting development after claiming lack of equipment to operate CR
33 Post contains links and images PRFLYER : RP-C7776, PR's 2nd B77W, will be delivered today. She is expected to arrive MNL Jan. 21.
34 6thfreedom : i note that flights to caticlan can't be booked in cebu pacific? is the airport closed for all airlines? when is it likely to re-open? is kalibo the c
35 PRFLYER : MPH is open to PR's Q300 and Seair's Dornier 328 only. Cebu Pacific's ATRs and Zestair's MA-60s are not yet certified to fly to Caticlan. PAL resumed
36 777way : Will pR be suing 744 firts time to Gulf when they resume Riyadh.
37 Leamside : Thanks all for your responses re the question of Clark becoming a premier airport. Yes, PAL will use the 747 to Riyadh.
38 Post contains images DEVILFISH : Was only assuming that the new one would need to fly, irregardless. In the current scheme of things, I guess the occasional inconvenience to traveler
39 FlyHigh@Tom : YS-11 Quick question to the folks out here....is there any air worthy YS-11 left in the Philippines in regular or charter/cargo service? I heard someb
40 777way : Thanks, but is their 744 doing Middle East for the first time?
41 PRFLYER : Yes. This will be the first time the 744 will be doing ME. Before they went to receivership, they were flying the 744s to Europe but not to the ME.
42 Iflypal : I believe this will be the first time PAL will have 747-400s scheduled service to the Middle East. PAL initially served Riyadh and Dhahran with a mix
43 777way : Thanks PRflyer and Iflypal for the detailed account of PR in the Middle East, really appreciate it.
44 MHG : There is no regular YS-11 service anymore. But Interisland Airlines still has one airworthy example. The regular route Manila-Vigan it was operated o
45 Post contains links and images CityAirline : Thanks to mostly healthy growth in domestic air travel, NAIA passenger number rose alot last year! MNL grew by 11.4% to 24,530,000 in 2009 (from 22,02
46 Lufthansa747 : Too bad I'll only be in CRK until 24MAR and again 18APR, would have loved to do that. And to think I lived in Thailand when Phuket Air had regular YS
47 Lufthansa747 : CGK also got extra EK frequencies, QR 77W, additional QZ A320s delivered. Will be interesting to see the facts. On the other hand, QZ is killing GA o
48 Post contains links and images CityAirline : Cebu Pacific is returning to MPH by March! After seven months of absence from the airport, the airline resumes it's 11 daily MNL-flights and daily CEB
49 Post contains images Lufthansa747 : Excellent news! wonder how much Gokongwei had to pay? Even nicer than to see both of them is the return of the competition... My friend needed Boraca
50 Crownvic : Lufthansa747...I was at Clark last week. On one day, both MD-80's were on the ramp. The next day, only one was there. Their web site is not very accur
51 iflypal : There is an update (Feb 10) to the Philippine Airlines Summer Domestic Flight Schedule that boasts of the following increase in service: Cotabato (12x
52 SANFan : And I'm still hoping for some (good) news about the FAA Safety Audit... bb
53 iflypal : A few hours after we mentioned the PR Domestic changes for the summer schedule, a 2P (Air Philippines) event is quietly announced.. So lo and behold,
54 jetblue777 : idk if this has been mentioned before, but EY adds another flight to MNL. E EY 424 Depart: AUH 2:45AM Arrive: MNL 3:50PM EY 423 Depart: MNL 7:10PM Arr
55 FilAmAirlines : When will the airlines at MNL Terminal 1 move to Terminal 3?
56 Post contains images ERJ : I hadn't heard that. Is there an effective date? Fantastic timing for me Maybe I'm out of the loop (likely). What is the deal with 2P? I thought they
57 PRFlyer : I think 2P will be used to compete with 5J and Z2 at the same time PR cannot afford to lose it's edge of offering convenient connecting flights to an
58 jetblue777 : TG ends MNL-KIX-MNL flights. effective March 28
59 leamside : Will 2P aircraft still be using PAL colors, or will they be repainted? Thanks.
60 EDICHC : Well hasn't this comment come back to bite me! Now here in the Phils and have just booked a trip to Panglao from MNL with 5J in March via their websi
61 ERJ : I had a lot of problems booking on 5J with a US card. I had my family buy the tix in the phils. Seems to be a common problem with any foreign cards,
62 EDICHC : Yeah I can see the inconsistency. What I don't understand is that 5J actually accepted the transaction and sent an e-mail to me confirming the bookin
63 EBGflyer : I have been using my foreign credit card (Visa and MasterCard) without any problem at Cebu Pacific's website. My friend had a similar problem when he
64 EBGflyer : Will the flight terminate in MNL or be completely removed? That would mean reducing from 2x daily to daily on MNL.
65 EDICHC : Used Visa for this transaction, the transaction was approved and an e-mail confirming the booking was sent to me. It was an hour and a half later tha
66 Post contains images ERJ : I have Verified by Visa. That's where my transaction stopped. It just wouldn't get past that screen. That's the sad part. Neither of the two big carr
67 SQ_EK_freak : Will the flights remain but just turnaround in Manila, or will they be terminated all together? Will there be any aircraft type change on the route?
68 PRFlyer : Ah....try this. The website requires browser to allow site cookies and third-party cookies for the booking process to work. But I am also having a ha
69 SQ_EK_freak : Okay, upon quick inspection of TG's website, TG 620/621 is staying put at daily, the flight has been retimed a bit - 09:05 departure from Suvarnabhumi
70 jetblue777 : THAI from 28MAR10 is canceling its Daily Manila – Osaka Kansai service. As a result, service to Osaka is reduced from 3 to 2 Daily, while Manila is
71 jetblue777 : Ey 423 and 424 currently operates MNL-AUH-MNL, i dont know when it started though.
72 Post contains images EDICHC : This is where my experience is very suspicious. I did get past this stage to the point where the transaction was apparently approved and a booking co
73 iflypal : Wow, you really have been put through the ringer by the flag carriers. Well, if it is any consolation, Ive had crap like that happen to me just about
74 babaero : Air Manila have started twice weekly CRK/TPE flights. Left Clark last Monday and there was a flight scheduled to leave 1300pm for Air Manila
75 EDICHC : Yeah been to Alona a few times now and will always be a favourite of mine - Boracay without the crowds. Like anywhere else in the Phils it is a great
76 6thfreedom : Apparently PAL has brought forward the introduction of B77W to MEL and SYD, with the aircraft operating from this weekend. There's a first - an aircra
77 EDICHC : Very little chance of that....they failed miserably to redeem themselves when after switching my CHC-MNL booking to SQ, I e-mailed their 'customer se
78 Pagophilus : The timings look very much like what the schdule used to be like, before they changed it last year. We were booked AUH-MNL-THR and return with reason
79 edichc : Next instalment of the "Philippine carriers try their best to screw-up Mr & Mrs EDICHC's vacation" drama. After the previous problems with PR &
80 PRFlyer : Complain to the same authorities that caused Philippine Aviation its Category II Safety rating? Good luck. Choosing between lesser evil, I would reco
81 edichc : Hmm not too sure they are the lesser of three evils, they really messed us about badly, cancelling our flight (for commercial reasons) and rebooking
82 CityAirline : TG will continue to operate BKK-MNL-BKK daily with a 777. Here's the good news! The evening flight is actually being changed to an A330-300 service (
83 Post contains images rockinflyer : I do think routing the service thru YVR to SAN is in PR's best interest. There is alot of local traffic to be had on that route. Routing thru SEA jus
84 Post contains links EBGflyer : Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere (it almost requires a separate thread). Beginning March 29, 2010, Air China will launch its Beijing (PEK) - Manila
85 Post contains images SANFan : Oh trust me, 'flyer, I know that a lot of people share your idea! I just hope we have that option some day. It's really frustrating not hearing anyth
86 Post contains images CityAirline : While looking through Zest Airways' flight schedule, I noticed they are adding the equivalent of three daily A320 flights to KLO, LGP, TAG, BCD, CEB,
87 EBGflyer : Thanks for letting me know. I did an extensive search here on the forums, but couldn't find any word on it. I wonder if CA will code-share with SK on
88 iflypal : I doubt it. If SK was to codeshare to MNL at all, I would think it would be with TG (2x daily) or SQ (4x daily) than the 3x weekly flights that CA of
89 iflypal : [quote=Iflypal,reply=0]CATICLAN PALEX/Air Philippines recently restarted services to Caticlan (Dec 1 2009), in time for the big Christmas/New Years ex
90 PRFlyer : It would definitely impact Seair since Seair has the highest airfare amongst the airlines servicing Caticlan. We are heading to Boracay next month and
91 Post contains images DEVILFISH : They might be more competitive if they acquire newer aircraft like this to replace their old Lets..... Maybe Horizon Air, other operators, or asset m
92 iflypal : Im fairly certain Caticlan is an all Dornier 328 destination is it not? Seair flies the LETS in ever smaller markets like Bonangan? (sp), Basco, Busu
93 iflypal : I would take Caticlan any day. The Kalibo scenery is good for the first fifteen minutes (only because you know your only 2 hours away from paradise)
94 PRFlyer : Trivia: Did you know that the part owner (30%) of Seair is Iren Dornier? Iren Dornier is a German pilot and is the grandson of German flying pioneer
95 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : They were still flying the L-410s to Caticlan as recently as three months ago..... View Large View MediumPhoto © Matias Did they pull those out of M
96 Post contains links and images devilfish : Caticlan merited special mention in ATR's performance chart on their site (page 7)..... http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...a6ae88966flying%20futu
97 FilAmAirlines : Will any of the non-Philippine airlines use MNL Terminal 3 or will they all wait for CRK to complete its projects?
98 Post contains links and images devilfish : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/NAIA_T3.jpg Four foreign airlines had already expressed interest to move to T3 once legal issues are se
99 EDICHC : Yeah but Z2 already seem to be established on both those routes, and as I was recently considering a trip to Palawan, was looking at their fares and
100 Post contains links and images devilfish : They may still be fine with their 328s at MPH, but will need higher capacity aircraft where the demand is there. I wonder if they could finance 12-ye
101 lukeyboy95 : I really hope growth in these two destinations is steady, in order to let the destinations cope and adjust with the any increases in air traffic. I a
102 terminalc : I notice this on PR's site today: From March 28, PAL will operate four times weekly to Riyadh, with departures every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and S
103 Post contains links and images viasa : Here is the first picture of Air Philippines low cost division airphilexpress.com They will get ten A320 in total. Air Philippines also operate some D
104 cityairline : And where will they get these ten aircraft? Don't tell me all will come from PAL? //Alex
105 EDICHC : Hi Guys...back in NZ after an 'eventful' trip to the Phils, and just wanted to ask a question regarding developments down in Bohol. I noted when down
106 Post contains links viasa : I'm very sure that most of Air Phils A320s will come from Philippines (the former US Airways and MyTravel Airways Scandinavia A320s). But I don't thi
107 EDICHC : As mentioned in another thread.... The EU has banned all Philippine Carrier from operating into EU member states. At this time, and in isolation, this
108 joost : An additional drawback is, though, that EU carriers are not allowed to issue interline tickets on any blacklisted carrier, and AFAIK EU travel agents
109 EDICHC : I had not considered this aspect. I guess this will have some significance for Balikbayans in Europe who live in the Visayas or Mindanao who try to b
110 DCAYOW : The FAA has already completed its legal mandate to review the Philippines and institute restrictions. By placing Philippines in Category 2, it has fr
111 EDICHC : Why is that? I'm not questioning your knowledge ..I just don't know. As I suggested in my previous post but one...what would be the legal comeback on
112 SQ_EK_freak : Wow that's a really nice upgrade, I'd love to fly on one of TG's new A333s - they look very nicely kitted out! A 738 sounds pretty brutal for that lo
113 Post contains links terryb99 : Link to the Aviation Week article; http://tinyurl.com/ygu5gcn
114 LJ : Many insurance companies do not have these exemptions. I don't know of any travel insurance not covering flying on a banned airline. The same for cor
115 LAXintl : The US does not follow the EU, and EU does not follow the US. Each has their own established measurements. Its really no different then the host of o
116 Post contains links and images cityairline : Thanks alot for the information! I chose to look further into this and found this very interesting article! http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/...es
117 EDICHC : I am well aware of that. I was asking however in hypothetical circumstances if there was a fatal accident involving PR on a US service, and there was
118 The777Man : There was supposed to be a FAA safety audit of the Philippne CAA in March; any idea how that went ? The777Man
119 Post contains images iflypal : That is a significant drawback, although I would I assume most Philippine bound European passengers book their inter island domestic tickets when get
120 EDICHC : Very true, once you get there certainly makes up for the frustration beforehand! While there may not be an issue about travel tickets, there will alm
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