Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13817 times:
Hey all. A happy New Year to everyone.
I sense a great year for Philippine Airlines- addition of the 777-300ER, Brisbane, enhancement of longhaul services, etc. As such, was wondering if opening up a 2010 PAL thread would be of value.
Here are my thoughts.
CATICLAN
PALEX/Air Philippines recently restarted services to Caticlan (Dec 1 2009), in time for the big Christmas/New Years exodus to Boracay. It appears that the ATO/CAAP had no issues with the Q300 allowing PAL to resume service there, but not the MA-60 or the ATRs operated by Zest Airways/Cebu Pacific respectively. Also noticing that even with the resumption of services to Caticlan, that PAL is still operating four daily frequencies to Kalibo using a mix of A319/A320s,
Anyone out there have an idea of:
-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on SEAIRs operations to Caticlan as it was previously the only carrier able to provide direct services to MPH due to the ATO restrictions?
-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on PALs own mainline service to Kalibo.
-was there an influx of passengers resisting Cebu Pacific or Zest Air Kalibo services in favor of/once direct Caticlan flights were resumed by PALEX
Ive taken the coach Kalibo-Caticaln transfer three times in the past three years. Picturesque as it was, it was not at all ideal.
BRISBANE/MELBOURNE/SYDNEY
Its been announced that PAL is to resume service to Brisbane on March 16. Whoo Hoo! At the same time, Sydney will be an all 777-300ER destination, albeit a reduction of services to five weekly from a seasonal high of seven. The reduction of frequencies to five for both Sydney and Melbourne in the Summer Schedule probably normalizes capacity during that shoulder season. Realizing that the deployment of the 777-300ER in Australia is temporary until full Category 1 is awarded (enabling Transpacific services to the US), can we see a shift to the A340-300 or the Boeing 747-400 to Australia in the near future? This rationalizes long haul flying for PR and makes consistent, hard Mabuhay Class offering. (I trust that the PR still intends to reconfigure the A340-300 fleet). To Meltraveller, how did PAL do this holiday season. I believe both Melbourne and Sydney saw the 747-400s numerous occasions. Is PAL making any waves at all in the OZ-North Asia traffic?
ECONOLIGHT PLUS
Most recently, PAL upped the ante on Econolight flights- now offering meals/beverages, seat selection anywhere in the aircraft (previously no meals/drinks/back of the bus) on flights were Econolight pricing was available. Though it alienated a handful of passengers who got the sticker applied to their seats treatment, PAL surely would have fared worse without it. Would you consider the experiment a failure or a success? Will we see its disappearance as a marketing ploy in 2010
Im sure there are many other Philippine Airlines topics that can be discussed. (ie Europe, the Middle East, Category 1, Arroz Caldo, Virgin Cola/Carlbergs Beer , Crappy airline amenity kit, 'Are you kidding me? Chicken Inasal again!?') that we can have agree to disagree on.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4088 posts, RR: 16 Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13825 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Thread starter): ...until full Category 1 is awarded (enabling Transpacific services to the US)...
This, to me, is the big question. Can anybody shed any light on the FAA safety audit situation? (I assume it did not happen last fall, as was suggested on one of the past PR threads.) Any idea when -- if? -- it is scheduled now?
PRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13791 times:
THE Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (CAAP) was audited for overall safety and efficiency by the International Civil Aviation Organization (Icao) the last week of October and bested the global average of 40.31 with a score of 28.19. The lower the score, the less corrections are needed.
The Icao-Universal Safety Audio Program score is a percentage of a given set of 987 questions. The audit team was led by CJ Collins, who conducted the audit from October 18 to 29.
CAAP Director General Ruben Ciron said the questions are focused on critical areas such as primary legislation and civil-aviation regulations, civil-aviation organization, personnel licensing and training, aircraft operations certification and supervision, airworthiness of aircraft, aircraft accident and incident investigation, air navigation service, and aerodromes.
There is no confirmation when the FAA Safety Audit is scheduled but I have been heard rumors that it will be in March.
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13616 times:
Thanks for the article PRFLYER. That is real encouraging. Perhaps the CAAP has its act together afterall.
Does the CAAP have a formal website?
There was word that local San Diego officials were vocal in support/endorsement of PALs SAN service application and was following the FAA re-categorization with great interest. How far along was the application process prior to the downgrade and does anyone know how prepared PAL is to launch it upon lifting? Or does the prioritization go to 77W ops or increased LAX/SFO frequencies
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4088 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13594 times:
Quoting PRFLYER (Reply 2): There is no confirmation when the FAA Safety Audit is scheduled but I have been heard rumors that it will be in March.
Thanx for the update, 'FLYER. I would consider March to be good news that things could move along nicely this year.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3): There was word that local San Diego officials were vocal in support/endorsement of PALs SAN service application and was following the FAA re-categorization with great interest
That word is extremely correct! Needless to say, this is a very big deal for those of us in San Diego - professionals and amateurs alike!
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3): How far along was the application process prior to the downgrade and does anyone know how prepared PAL is to launch it upon lifting?
Two great questions that I've asked a few times and would love to know the answer to. The last I know is that the application for SAN-(YVR)-MNL was filed almost exactly 2 years ago (on 1-10-08) with requested approval by March 1, 2008, in order to commence service during the "fourth quarter of 2008". (Maybe that should give us an approximate time-frame for PR.)
I have seen no evidence that the application has been approved (with the understandable "subject to a successful FAA safety audit", or something similar) so I assume the DOT will not act on the app at all until such time as PR passes the safety audit. HOPEFULLY, the DOT will act quickly if and when the FAA is happy...
I've got my fingers, eyes and toes crossed about this!
PRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13555 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 3): Does the CAAP have a formal website?
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13442 times:
Thanks for the link PRFLYER
I was able to peruse the site and for the most part impressed with it. Not sure how long it took to get CAAP to put it up (or if it merely took over the old ATO website), but from a transparency and content standpoint, it partially remedies or satisfies what the FAA had noted as deficiencies prior to CAT2 (publication of regulations, protocol, permits, structure, etc). It certainly is more useful than most Philippine government sites, but then again, Im sure none of them are being scrutinized as much as the CAAP. Some of the documentation is a little of out of date (ie list of emergency equipment, aircraft/passenger movement, etc) but at least the foundation is there. Lets hope it gets maintained periodically.
It would also be interesting to compare the requirements of the 'vacated' inspector positions under the CAAP with that of what the FAA mandates on its own. Glad to see the qualifications spelled out, if only to weed out 'appointed' consultants or FOF.
San Diego would be a welcome addition to the route network. I hope they ultimately file for Seattle as well, doing a MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver (leaving that gateway to serve LAS and either ORD/EWR/JFK). The A340 can do MNL-SAN eastbound year round. The A340 can do SEA-MNL westbound yearround (but not SAN). Most might say that you would lose out of local traffic on the SAN-SEA sectors as the US government does not allow carriage between two domestic points, but I cant imagine PR making money on YVR-SAN either. (at least it does not seem to have the potential local traffic that a YVR-LAS would have)
SANFAN, do you know what kind of incentives the local San Diego officials (if any) have given PAL to initiate service there? What would be your guess as to which terminal/concourse/handling agent would be performing services, and with jest, cater the Chicken Inasal dish that seem to appear on every PAL menu, regardless of where you go. Love the chicken, but enough already!
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4088 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13337 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6): San Diego would be a welcome addition to the route network. I hope they ultimately file for Seattle as well, doing a MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver (leaving that gateway to serve LAS and either ORD/EWR/JFK). The A340 can do MNL-SAN eastbound year round. The A340 can do SEA-MNL westbound year-round (but not SAN). Most might say that you would lose out of local traffic on the SAN-SEA sectors as the US government does not allow carriage between two domestic points, but I cant imagine PR making money on YVR-SAN either. (at least it does not seem to have the potential local traffic that a YVR-LAS would have)
A few alternative routings for SAN-service have been discussed here over the last year or 2, including SEA, HNL, and even LAS, but YVR seems to be the option being pursued by PR -- as in, their application for SAN service. I can almost guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!
I do think there might be a bit more local traffic between SAN and YVR than most people think but that routing would probably also mean a reduction in their YVR-LAS service (unless they are able to op more than 7x weekly between YVR and MNL.) I wish I knew what the options really are and how many of the many pieces, besides the FAA safety audit, are in place to make this all come together and start.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6): SANFAN, do you know what kind of incentives the local San Diego officials (if any) have given PAL to initiate service there? What would be your guess as to which terminal/concourse/handling agent would be performing services
I will have to look at the intl incentive program again but I know it involves landing fees, facilities-leases, and marketing assistance. I also know that it is very competitive with incentives in place at most other airports. (Note: I seem to remember that a SEA-routing might prevent the eligibility of PR to take advantage of the intl incentive.)
I can also assure anyone interested that SAN really wants this service to happen and they are working very hard to help make it so. (I know for a fact that the SDIA folks did lots of things "above-and-beyond" to help make Zoom's brief op's at SAN as good as possible -- read: successful.)
PR should operate from gate 20/21 (T2E) which is our FIS gate and our CUTE ticket counter/gate check-in facilities are located there as well and will nicely accommodate PR's needs. As far as who might handle above- and below-wing support for PR, I really have no idea who is available at Lindbergh these days, sorry.
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3119 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13256 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Thread starter): Would you consider the experiment a failure or a success? Will we see its disappearance as a marketing ploy in 2010
The whole Econolight seems like a failure, probably due to only being available online. My experiences so far:
OZC-MNL - 3 pax (A319)
HKG-MNL - 5 pax (A330)
MNL-HKG - 5 pax (A320)
CEB-MNL - 0 pax (B744), we were late for check-in and placed in the mid cabin...
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13161 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7): guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!
I can imagine the level of goosebumps on the arms of a first timer flying that narrow corridor between buildings (on an A340 nonetheless!) prior to landing. Ive been flying through SAN many times (mostly from SEA on Alaska) on 737s and its almost forget to breathe for a second or two.
SAN, I assume any flight of San Diego westbound would require some sort of weight restriction (or at the very least, an A340 with 1/2 tank worth of fuel due to the tricky situation at Lindbergh). That rules nonstop MNL or perhaps even HNL out of the picture. A triangular via LAS (ie MNL-SAN-LAS) wont work as the westbound transpac would require a technical somewhere enroute due range/headwinds), leaving either YVR/SEA.
Given the following hypothethical schedule based on actual WINTER SEASON block hours:
*based on PR106 scheduling ex-MNL
a) would an arrival time of 1600 Scenario B (nonstop) offer more connections opportunities out of San Diego than an 1815 arrival (Scenario A)?
b) would an departure time of 1800 Scenario B through SEA) offer more connecting opportunities from SAN than 1945 (through YVR)? (ok perhaps that is negligible)
c) would you save one landing/takeoff fee cycle in YVR by doing the route triangularly (ie not having to land/take off, land/take off YVR
One negative I see is crew staffing on the SAN-SEA sector. At least in via YVR, you can have a turnaround crew to YVR-SEA-YVR like the current YVR-LAS-YVR. In this case, you would either require the ex SAN crew to do the entire crossing to MNL or have a separate crew doing just SAN-SEA
Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 8): The whole Econolight seems like a failure, probably due to only being available online. My experiences so far:
OZC-MNL - 3 pax (A319)
HKG-MNL - 5 pax (A330)
MNL-HKG - 5 pax (A320)
CEB-MNL - 0 pax (B744), we were late for check-in and placed in the mid cabin...
Lufthansa747, do the numbers below reflect the number of times youve flown Econolight on the said segments or the number of Econolight passengers on a given flight you were on where you see the Econolight sticker? I recall the PAL website crashing during the REALDEAL promo so it appears enough people have access online to make it viable.
BTW, on the Philippine Airlines Facebook account, there is a discussion point regarding Econolight and one's dignity that is an interesting read. It pre-empts PALs announcement of an improved Econolight product
SANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 498 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13116 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9): I assume any flight of San Diego westbound would require some sort of weight restriction (or at the very least, an A340 with 1/2 tank worth of fuel due to the tricky situation at Lindbergh). That rules nonstop MNL or perhaps even HNL out of the picture.
It was discussed in a few past Philippine threads that even some PAL flights from LAX and SFO have to make tech stops in GUM before continuing on to MNL.(I guess it's those headwinds).
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 6): MNL-SAN-SEA-MNL triangular routing in lieu of Vancouver
That would be really cool if they had that routing.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7): I can almost guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!
Regardless of where it stops, we'll take it! We would get a new asian carrier,plus a new
Canada flight!
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7): I do think there might be a bit more local traffic between SAN and YVR than most people think but that routing would probably also mean a reduction in their YVR-LAS service (unless they are able to op more than 7x weekly between YVR and MNL.) I wish I knew what the options really are and how many of the many pieces, besides the FAA safety audit, are in place to make this all come together and start.
I remember about a year or so ago, PAL increased their MNL-YVR frequency,we were all
hoping a couple of those flights were PAL's way of setting everything up to launch SAN
as soon as the category-1 rating was reinstated. I hope that's the case.My question is,
if PAL does launch SAN soon, what are the connections from MNL to NRT?,If someone
wanted to travel to NRT from SAN, could they connect through MNL?
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13059 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9): if PAL does launch SAN soon, what are the connections from MNL to NRT?,If someone
wanted to travel to NRT from SAN, could they connect through MNL?
HI SANMAN66 (have you met SANFAN) lol
Assuming that the SAN flights (regardless of the routing via YVR or anywhere else) arrives like the rest of the Transpac bank of flights (btw 4:00-5:30am), there is a flight to NRT via CEB that departs MNL around 5:30 (it retrospect, maybe this would be a tight connection). Its not a direct flight per say as the flight number changes in Cebu (same aircraft though). If you took that, it would be a SAN-XXX-MNL-CEB-NRT. That is a long, out of the way to go. If you need Mabuhay Miles, I guess it wouldnt be too bad.
Otherwise, there is a DL/NW flight that leaves around 8:00am directly to NRT.
The nonstop PAL flight to Narita from Manila leaves mid afternoon so it would be a six-seven hour layover for you
SANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 498 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13040 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 11): HI SANMAN66 (have you met SANFAN) lol
Yup!
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 11): The nonstop PAL flight to Narita from Manila leaves mid afternoon so it would be a six-seven hour layover for you
I'd figure if we can't get a nonstop SAN-NRT due to the terrain issues (Hopefully the 787
will remedy that), the PAL flight to MNL could help with an Asian connection to NRT. What
still surprises me is that HA has not made it easy for anyone from SAN to connect to their
HNL-MNL flight?
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12984 times:
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12): What
still surprises me is that HA has not made it easy for anyone from SAN to connect to their
HNL-MNL flight?
That'll change as soon as PR announces service I can guarantee. DL, UA, CO, HA will surely defend their WC-Asia turf. Imagine an AS codeshare out of SAN and SEA? It sure seems that AS codeshares with everybody.
Either way, Im rooting for you guys. Application says SAN-YVR-MNL. At the very least, I would expect SAN-YVR fares to go down a lot ($450 two weeks advance notice...yikes!) when this happens. Hope it comes to fruition soon.
PRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12799 times:
Is RP-C7776 in the paint shop now? It is scheduled to be delivered on January 18. I don't see her in the flightline at Paine Field anymore.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12738 times:
Well guys I have had a really bad experience with PR involving their recent decision to axe the daytime MNL-SYD service.
My good lady and I were booked on PR211 MNL-SYD on 22 Mar (with an onward connection to CHC on NZ) returning from our annual trip to the Phils, a booking we paid for some 6 months previously. Just about 3 weeks ago we get a call from our travel agent telling us that PR are no longer operating that flight and had rebooked us on PR209 leaving MNL 36 hours later! Bad enough huh? It gets worse!
As that rebooking would have us arriving back in CHC 10 hours after I was supposed to be back at work, I told the travel agent to get onto PR to get a better booking...on the dates we originally booked. Wait for this...the agent couldn't contact PR as the SYD office was closed for a Christmas Party! I asked them why not contact PR at MNL, well they warned me that contacting PR in MNL was not too reliable. I gave it a try myself and 'not too reliable' was a gross understatement. 5 unreturned calls 3 e-mails unreplied and the one time I managed to speak to a supervisor (the frontline customer service agents were frankly useless) he said I was being unreasonable when I told him I needed to be back at CHC at a certain time.
Now this was all happening about 8 weeks before our outbound journey, so I told PR that if they could not get me back to CHC in time then they should re-book us with another carrier. They refused to do this. I then told them I would have no choice but to cancel and rebook with another carrier. At first they said I would be subject to cancellation fees, until I pointed out to them my cancellation was as result of their (voluntary) schedule change less than 3 months before the date of outbound travel and as such I was entitled to a full refund. The supervisor then laughed at me and said it would be 8 weeks before I got a refund, leaving me no time to book with another carrier. It took great pressure (with threat of legal action) from both me and my travel agent to force PR to process my refund within 10 days.
When I relayed this to my travel agent, she relayed this to the company's NZ manager she very nicely replied to me saying that they have had a string of complaints regarding PRs handling of this and that as a result they will no longer be actively promoting PR sales.
Now don't get me wrong I know carrier may have to alter schedules for commercial reasons and that things can go wrong for even the best of carriers. But my measure of the quality of a carrier is how well they manage when things do go pear-shaped. This was my first experience of PRs 'customer service'. It will also be my last.
Leamside From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 443 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12703 times:
Though the idea of Clark replacing Manila as a premier airport has been around for many years it has been thought by some as absurd and laughed at by others. Lately, a couple of articles have been published:
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3119 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12693 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 9): Lufthansa747, do the numbers below reflect the number of times youve flown Econolight on the said segments or the number of Econolight passengers on a given flight you were on where you see the Econolight sticker?
Number of passengers. Only flown once Econolight on each of those segments. I'd always fly it from HKG but have to fly 5J due to the 7-day max stay.
Pagophilus From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12678 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 15): When I relayed this to my travel agent, she relayed this to the company's NZ manager she very nicely replied to me saying that they have had a string of complaints regarding PRs handling of this and that as a result they will no longer be actively promoting PR sales.
I haven't had any bad experiences with PAL, however my general experience is that the Philippines is not good at dealing with emergencies/irregularities. And most staff (and probably even supervisors) are not familiar with rules & regulations. You have to know your stuff and be prepared to argue and prove things otherwise you might get taken for a ride. Acting authoritative and appearing to know what you are doing takes a priority over service.
Am very sorry to hear about your bad experience with PR, but wait...if you want worse try 5J! Customer service...i don't think anybody in that airline knows a thing about that! I will recount my experiences in detail later as i have to go now...but all i have to say is...i like 5J's network and frequency. true they are a low cost carrier but why oh why on earth dont they try to emulate other ASIAN or MIDDLE EASTERN low cost carriers which keep prices low but still manage to leave a smile on your face once you have flown with them. Now everybody can fly ...how about making atleast most who fly happy?
PRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12649 times:
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12551 times:
Quoting Leamside (Reply 16): Though the idea of Clark replacing Manila as a premier airport has been around for many years it has been thought by some as absurd and laughed at by others. Lately, a couple of articles have been published:
.....to see the merit in the proposal. NAIA is existing cheek by jowl with the surrounding community, that there's no more room for development. That triangle formed by the two runways and the MIA Road is, in most other airports, part of the development plan. The ideal limit would be Maricaban Creek (visible in the photos) which could have formed a natural boundary for the airport.
It made no sense for those in Government then to explore the acquisition of the cheap fields, fishponds and salt beds in the area to add to the already "astronomical" cost of the undertaking! Good luck getting the owners part with their properties now. Unfortunately, in the post-war Manila of the 50s, focus was in getting one up and running and didn't bother about the creeping ramshackle buildup at its perimeter. Not too much study went into future needs, nor did the planners foresee the metropolis' population exploding to 20M now or thereabouts.
Contrast those with the almost "blank canvass" of the bottom photo, but with well-secured perimeters and important infrastructure already in place. As pointed out, the expressways and railways have to be upgraded well ahead of any new work. I remember routinely making the distance from Balintawak to Balibago in an hour. The proposed diversion through Commonwealth should improve on that time significantly and avoid the horrors of EDSA.
Admittedly, folks in Southern Luzon will have a dim view of such development, and must still be afforded international flights at NAIA. Also, multinational companies operating in Metro Manila might resist the move, and as a consequence, so too might the airlines going after their business. Slowly, a bit of success can be seen in the effort to convince manufacturers to locate outside NCR. In the end, it would be a balance of whether the Philippine economy a decade or two hence could sustain a main international gateway and a city airport at the same time. The country can't afford the luxury of experimentation neighbors had with Suvarnabhumi and Sepang. Comparing distances, BKK is 28 km from downtown with good highways, KUL is about 50 km from Subang. I have some misgivings about the mooted prices, although I wish it would be realized within my lifetime.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12472 times:
Quoting Pagophilus (Reply 18): You have to know your stuff and be prepared to argue and prove things otherwise you might get taken for a ride
Oh don't I know it. Before I undertook a career change to become a Registered Nurse, I worked for LC in EDI. In addition my late father was a manager with EI for 30+ years. So I knew pretty much my rights.
Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 19): Am very sorry to hear about your bad experience with PR, but wait...if you want worse try 5J! Customer service...i don't think anybody in that airline knows a thing about that!
Funnily enough I have had nothing but positive experiences with 5J.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 23 Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12458 times:
Quoting Leamside (Reply 16): What are your thoughts on this development?
Personally, I remain skeptical that Clark will replace NAIA anytime soon. From one of the articles you cited:
Quote: Another urgent issue will be the link to Manila. So far, it takes over two hours by car to reach the airport and urgent work must be done to enlarge the highway and offer a proper public transportation. “We are very conscious of the saturation of the road system in Manila but it should get better with the opening in 2010 of a new ring road in Quezon City. The completion of the Northern Commuter Train System will also provide a direct rail link from Clark to Manila Northern Station,” adds Luciano.
Even with improvements in the transportation system, and the traffic from NAIA to Makati and Quezon, business is mostly conducted in Manila. Can you imagine the havoc if something happens to the rail links from Pampanga?
I think the government would be better off exercising "eminent domain" and expanding NAIA. By all means, develop Clark, but not as a replacement for the capital's premier airport.
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21): Oops, I forgot one thing. Mt. Pinatubo! bomb
Yes, let's not forget that!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12448 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23): Can you imagine the havoc if something happens to the rail links from Pampanga?
This is what occurred to me. In monsoon/typhoon conditions you could have CRK fully operational but be totally cut off from Metro Manila by flooded rail lines and roads.
IMHO CRK is the right facility in the wrong place.
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12365 times:
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Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23): think the government would be better off exercising "eminent domain" and expanding NAIA. By all means, develop Clark, but not as a replacement for the capital's premier airport.
I strongly agree.
Here are my thoughts, naive as they may be,
1. Closing down the Manila Domestic Terminal.
Is there a fundamental reason the facility is still in use? What is preventing Zest Air, Seair or any remaining domestic carrier from transfering their operations, even if temporary, to NAIA Terminal 3. I cant imagine there would be any legal considerations that wouldnt apply to Cebu Pacific or Air Philippines that would apply to Zest or Seair and affect their transfer. Isnt its close proximity to the smaller runway a safety related issue to begin with? Could not the cost of MIAA to operate MDT be used to transfer the cost of operation in T3. If and when the whole FRAPORT issue is resolved, find a new home for the domestic carriers in either Terminal 2 (which is the rightful home anyway), or the recently being refurbished Terminal 1.
2. Redundant or abandoned structures (hangars, with the NAIA grounds) I have driven past or seen pictures taken within NAIA grounds of hangars or buildings that are in shambles, abandoned or in various states of disrepair. Are these structures owned by private entities or they owned by MIAA and leased? Also, the land in which the old Philippine Village Hotel is situated...is that sacred ground that cant be absorbed, reclaimed or redeveloped? (ie extend/expand T2)
3. Is it necessary to have any Philippine Air Force/Government presence at NAIA? Simplistically said, they should consider relocating all PAF or government movement or activity to another facility (Subic?). If the American used it as a base for military operations, why cant the Philippines? Base the F28, the helicopters, the Dornier jet, support aircraft there and if the President needs to fly out, helicopter 'em to Subic like they helicopter the US president to Andrews AFB when he travels. Dismantle these old, odd looking structures that support PAF or the presidents plane and make better use of the land.
Bigger bonus, imagine ATC NOT having to halt ground or air movement or having incoming planes circle around NAIA airspace because the Presidents plane is landing or taking off. Are there any heads of state out there who use their main gateway/international (commercial) airport when departing/arriving?
4. Squatters. I dont know what to say about that.
Wasnt it mentioned before that from a airway traffic/movement perspective, the limitations to NAIA operations were due to inadequate/obsolete technical facilities ie radar, software, hardware etc. rather than the physical attributes of the airport itself (ie number of runways, intersecting runways, taxiways, unkempt bathrooms? At the end of the day, wouldnt it be cheaper finding a remedy to that than to developing the necessary infrastructure to make Clark the premier airport?
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12492 times:
Please excuse us for veering off-topic a little more - it's just that the subject of the country's premier airport and its "national" carrier are so intertwined.
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23): I think the government would be better off exercising "eminent domain" and expanding NAIA.
In part, therein also lies the reason the original airport facilities didn't have much allowance for growth. To illustrate - the most visible, successful instance of its exercise I'm aware of was the approx. half-mile extension of EDSA from Taft Ave to Roxas Blvd. It involved the widening of a very narrow street and expropriation of the properties on both sides. It took more than 20 years - from before and long after the Martial Law years, to see it to completion!
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): find a new home for the domestic carriers in either Terminal 2 (which is the rightful home anyway), or the recently being refurbished Terminal 1.
I submit that Terminal 1 is the most logical facility to takeover domestic/LCC operations. I see no sense in letting it go to waste as suggested by the article. Unless there's a hidden agenda behind. The Centennial Terminal could remain PR's preserve.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): 2. Redundant or abandoned structures (hangars, with the NAIA grounds) I have driven past or seen pictures taken within NAIA grounds of hangars or buildings that are in shambles, abandoned or in various states of disrepair. Are these structures owned by private entities or they owned by MIAA and leased? Also, the land in which the old Philippine Village Hotel is situated...is that sacred ground that cant be absorbed, reclaimed or redeveloped? (ie extend/expand T2)
"Invisible" forces are at play here.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): 3. Is it necessary to have any Philippine Air Force/Government presence at NAIA? Simplistically said, they should consider relocating all PAF or government movement or activity to another facility (Subic?).
I think it's a given that the Air Force Command will stay in the national capital. Afterall, Villamor AB is their home. The other functions could move to Basa AB or Clark, as it is very big, or the former U.S. NAS at Cubi Point, since FEDEX had already moved out. The others are already based at Sangley Point.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): If the American used it as a base for military operations, why cant the Philippines?
To put it bluntly, the AFP simply don't have the werewithal for the upkeep of the facilities. You can count with your fingers and toes the number of airworthy aircraft you had mentioned. The facilities need to be subsidized by commercial operations so they won't go to seed.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): and if the President needs to fly out, helicopter 'em to Subic like they helicopter the US president to Andrews AFB when he travels.
The logistics and security complications mitigate against this.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): Dismantle these old, odd looking structures that support PAF or the presidents plane and make better use of the land.
Considering that the plan to purchase a new presidential plane (E-135 for $20M) had been withdrawn after being lambasted in Congress, there could be some traction to that. But then, where to put Bluebird?
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): Bigger bonus, imagine ATC NOT having to halt ground or air movement or having incoming planes circle around NAIA airspace because the Presidents plane is landing or taking off.
Absent the new jet, PR's plane would still be used - bonus withheld.
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 25): Are there any heads of state out there who use their main gateway/international (commercial) airport when departing/arriving?
MarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 574 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12587 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23): I think the government would be better off exercising "eminent domain" and expanding NAIA. By all means, develop Clark, but not as a replacement for the capital's premier airport.
Exactly. Clark is in Pampanga, and has very little to do with Manila. It (CRK) is an excellent alternative gateway for those with destinations in Pampanga, Pangasinan, and perhaps as far north as Baguio. But for better or for worse, that's about as far as its real utility goes.
Also, it is worth taking note that Zest Air tried CRK-HKG but then pulled out very quickly, as the route's average load factors were only about 30%, despite competitive fares and great in-flight service.
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12429 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26): Please excuse us for veering off-topic a little more - it's just that the subject of the country's premier airport and its "national" carrier are so intertwined
By all means...no objections here.
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26): submit that Terminal 1 is the most logical facility to takeover domestic/LCC operations. I see no sense in letting it go to waste as suggested by the article. Unless there's a hidden agenda behind. The Centennial Terminal could remain PR's preserve
Agreed. Just to clarify, would that include transfering Cebu Pacific to T1 from T3 or just current residents of MDT plus perhaps the likes of JetStar. Including 5J in the mix makes sense.
Im more inclined to say Centennial is more 'right sized' for Cebu Pacific's operations vs PAL. T2 is not condusive to any significant PAL growth.
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26): I think it's a given that the Air Force Command will stay in the national capital. Afterall, Villamor AB is their home
People move homes all the time . I cant imagine AFB ops being too extensive at NAIA. What type of activities do they have left there? That lasagna roof looking building..its that Villamor or is that government? That structure is right at the tip of T3 I think
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26): The logistics and security complications mitigate against this.
Wouldnt security complications be less of an issue outside of NAIA?
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26): Absent the new jet, PR's plane would still be used - bonus withheld.
Your assuming the next president is as eager to gain elite status or as much as a mile hog than the current one. That issue is not going away whether regardless of where the AFB is relocated. At least he/she wouldnt be holding up commercial traffic because of it.
FlyHigh@Tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 316 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 12149 times:
Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 27): Also, it is worth taking note that Zest Air tried CRK-HKG but then pulled out very quickly, as the route's average load factors were only about 30%, despite competitive fares and great in-flight service.
Zest was NOT able to pull it through, but however other carriers like Air Asia, Tiger, Asiana and Cebu pacific are able to sustain operations from Clark...so its not that Clark is not a viable alternative compared to Manila! TRUE Zest Air did have very competitive fares....but their marketing has a lot be desired. First of all the MNL-CRK-HKG routing was pretty confusing to many including myself as stated earlier in the forum! Now that they have pulled out the route...i doubt if anyone in HKG will rely on this airline even if they start MNL-KKG direct! Its more of the brand being unknown rather than price and service.
For me i always prefer Clark to Manila...lesser traffic both in the air and on the ground!
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 22): Funnily enough I have had nothing but positive experiences with 5J.
How does one rate an airline. Numerous uneventful trips are the exact things that are "expected" by me. I always make it a point to thank the people like the FA's or check in staff when things go smoothly. (unfortunately these days no longer do we have the pilots standing at the L1 door bidding adieu to the PAX when they disembark )
Its when things go wrong like delays, cancellations lost baggage etc...the way the airline staff handle such situations are what leave either warm memories or horrible memories! At such times the front line staff like flt attendants, check in staff, booking staff, customer service reps, station managers are the ones that make or break the airline!
I have had experiences with delays, cancellations in other low cost carriers but the way they handled it made me come back to them. I have sent appreciation letters to those airlines complimenting them on how they handled the situation and any areas of improvement if any. Some of these airlines keep requesting for feedback and widely advertise a phone number or email address for feedback.
However Cebu Pacific in particular seems to be lacking in this respect. Sometimes you just feel lost and don't know whom to complain to! 3 strikes and you are out is my policy with airlines....that's exactly what happened with Cebu Pacific.. i resolved never to fly them again even if it meant losing more money on other carriers. some of their front line staff seem to be kids out of college with no maturity or sense of professionalism whatsoever! (more busy fiddling with their phones / texting away when we are standing in a queue requesting info on whether the flt is delayed or canceled ...i can go on and on but it will just look like i am rambling and personally i would like to forget those bad days!
Its pretty funny 5J is the leading airline in the Philippines as far as regional/domestic connections and frequency (sorry to the PAL fans! but that's the fact) Am sure they are raking in a lot of money as evident by their profit announcements. they are due to take delivery off a dozen or so airbuses later this year....I just hope for the traveling public sake they do something about their customer service!
FlyHigh@Tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 316 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11962 times:
UPS at CRK
Sunday mornings always seem busy for UPS at Clark....I saw a B767 followed by a B757 followed by a B747 all depart within 10 mins of each other at 0800 hrs local time. Also a MD11 was overhead the VOR commencing approach at 0815.
What is their usual load into/from Clark?
Also a FEDEX MD 11 was at the apron and departed about an hour or so later.
FlyHigh@Tom From India, joined Sep 2001, 316 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11764 times:
ZEST AIR
Heard from reliable sources that Zest Air plans to start MNL-SIN from this month end onwards! Good luck to them. they do realize the stiff competition they face on this route! For the airline i sincerely hope they manage to pull this one through....like mentioned here before their prices are right and inflight service not very bad either!
MNL Vs CRK
Clark may have mt.Pinatubo....which is a young volcano....but i think its easier to predict an eruption and evacuate once in 2 decades compared to the yearly 10 times typhoon that hits MNL? remember last year's flooding?
Heard from reliable sources that Zest Air plans to start MNL-SIN from this month end onwards! Good luck to them
Surprisingly, Zests website shows new services to both Singapore and Shanghai. Interesting development after claiming lack of equipment to operate CRK-HKG. I believe both flights are night flights similar to what PR/5J is running. Interesting too is the fact MNL-PVG traffic are all on Philippine carriers (PR, 5J, now Zest). China Eastern operates charters to several Philippine points, not sure why they are not keen on operating scheduled service. Zest would probably be best served serving Shenzen, Guangzhou or Macau or Kuala Lumpur than Singapore.
From a practicality standpoint, without a high speed connection between Manila and DMIA/Clark, it would be a hardsell for anyone living in the metro area to catch a flight out of CRK. I liken it to the current long and tedious ride between Kalibo and Caticlan. If you live in the Metro area (especially south of the city or have a schedule where time is of the essence, Clark will continue to be non-viable. For the time being, CRK currently only benefits those living north of NCR (National Capital Region) or the nethers of Northern Luzon.
The options for creating an expansive, world-class, if not showcase facility, agreeably can be better acheived at Clark than anywhere else in the country. Its just that its not necessary
By now, everyone has heard of Philippine Airlines return to Saudi Arabia. A pleasant surprise on all counts-- the return to the Middle East, the utilization of the 747-400, and the 4x weekly frequency of the nonstop Manila-Riyadh flight. One word-- kewl.
PRFLYER From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11355 times:
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 34): i note that flights to caticlan can't be booked in cebu pacific?
is the airport closed for all airlines? when is it likely to re-open?
is kalibo the closest airport to access boracay? how complex are transfers compared to flying into caticlan?
MPH is open to PR's Q300 and Seair's Dornier 328 only. Cebu Pacific's ATRs and Zestair's MA-60s are not yet certified to fly to Caticlan. PAL resumed service last Dec. 1.
Kalibo would be your closest choice (aside from Caticlan) for Boracay. PR and 5J flies A320s there. It is a 2 hour scenic drive on an air-conditioned van and there are plenty of them at Kalibo airport. Cost about P200 each way. Airfare is a lot cheaper compared to Caticlan.
Personally, I love to fly on the Q300 so we booked our trip in March via Caticlan.
Leamside From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 443 posts, RR: 1 Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11145 times:
Thanks all for your responses re the question of Clark becoming a premier airport.
Quoting 777way (Reply 36): Will pR be suing 744 firts time to Gulf when they resume Riyadh.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11054 times:
Quoting Iflypal (Reply 28): Your assuming the next president is as eager to gain elite status or as much as a mile hog than the current one. Smile That issue is not going away whether regardless of where the AFB is relocated. At least he/she wouldnt be holding up commercial traffic because of it.
Was only assuming that the new one would need to fly, irregardless. In the current scheme of things, I guess the occasional inconvenience to travelers and business impact to airlines would weigh less in the decision-making process, versus the big outlay that'd be required for base relocation.
Speaking of which, that stillborn Legacy 600 could have looked something like this in Philippine colors.....
.....would be too much of an effort to spot if it was flying from a remote base across the bay.
Quoting PRFLYER (Reply 35): MPH is open to PR's Q300 and Seair's Dornier 328 only. Cebu Pacific's ATRs and Zestair's MA-60s are not yet certified to fly to Caticlan.
At the end of the day, testing the system to what it would bear was counter-productive. The smaller ATR-42 would have been an easier fit for MPH operations. But bean-counters probably had the final say.....
Iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10794 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 40): Thanks, but is their 744 doing Middle East for the first time?
I believe this will be the first time PAL will have 747-400s scheduled service to the Middle East.
PAL initially served Riyadh and Dhahran with a mix of 747-200s and DC10s (nonstop from Manila or via Dubai or Karachi) in the 1980s. Routing was MNL-RUH, MNL-DHA, evolving to MNL-KHI-RUH, MNL-KHI-DHA to MNL-DXB-RUH, MNL-DXB-DHA etc)
Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Karachi also saw some DC10s and 747-200s that were part of the scheduled milkruns to Europe. (ie MNL-BKK-KHI-ROM-LGW, MNL-BKK-AUH-FRA-LGW, etc). Bahrain, in the early years was served with DC10s, again as part of the milkrun, never seeing the 747-200.
I have a PAL timetable that has an A300 operating MNL-BKK-KHI-DXB-CAI (yes, Cairo), though Im not entirely sure this was ever operated.
Fast forwarding
In the late 90s PAL briefly operated the A340-200/A340-300 to both Riyadh and Dhahran, the latter switching to Damman upon opening of that airport. Jeddah was served nonstop initially via Manila on A340-200, then later via Dubai on A340-300
Prior to restructuring, PALs presence in the Middle East was Dammam, Riyadh, Jeddah, and Dubai operated entirely with A340-300.
Riyadh was the only station to be restarted after the restructure with A340-300 plying the route, sometimes substituted with the A330-300. The Riyadh station was finally closed in 2004/5
Quick question to the folks out here....is there any air worthy YS-11 left in the Philippines in regular or charter/cargo service?
I heard somebody offering YS-11 trips between Zamboanga and Sandakan....is it true?
Thanks....
There is no regular YS-11 service anymore.
But Interisland Airlines still has one airworthy example.
The regular route Manila-Vigan it was operated on is terminated because of insufficient loads.
But the airline continues to offer flights during festive events to get a share of the market during high demand on certain routes ...
last time they flew around christmas/new year.
The next - planned flights - are around easter festivities from Manila to Kalibo vv. (april 1 and April 4 - ticket price is 3000,-Peso one-way all incl.)
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 45, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10296 times:
Thanks to mostly healthy growth in domestic air travel, NAIA passenger number rose alot last year!
MNL grew by 11.4% to 24,530,000 in 2009 (from 22,027,000 in 2008).
According to the article passenger numbers are expected to climb further this year with a double-digit growth, which would put MNL at 27 Million in 2010.
This growth enabled MNL to climb from the 57th spot and enter the top 50s at the 48th spot (surpassing ZRH, STN, FLL, PMI, LGA, DEL, DUB, IAD, BOM, MEX).
If CGK doesn't post a growth of more than 11,4% then 2009 was the third year in a row that MNL posted the strongest growth among the five South East Asian airports icluded in the Top100.
With the airport serving 24,5M last year and probably around 27M by year-end, MNL is really getting busy now!!
I remember when the airport was a baby only a few years ago and served only 12,9M (2003) haha!
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3119 posts, RR: 51 Reply 46, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10255 times:
Quoting MHG (Reply 44): The next - planned flights - are around easter festivities from Manila to Kalibo vv. (april 1 and April 4 - ticket price is 3000,-Peso one-way all incl.)
Too bad I'll only be in CRK until 24MAR and again 18APR, would have loved to do that. And to think I lived in Thailand when Phuket Air had regular YS-11 flights...
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3119 posts, RR: 51 Reply 47, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10252 times:
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 45): If CGK doesn't post a growth of more than 11,4% then 2009 was the third year in a row that MNL posted the strongest growth among the five South East Asian airports icluded in the Top100.
CGK also got extra EK frequencies, QR 77W, additional QZ A320s delivered. Will be interesting to see the facts. On the other hand, QZ is killing GA on many international routes so reductions there.
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10251 times:
Cebu Pacific is returning to MPH by March!
After seven months of absence from the airport, the airline resumes it's 11 daily MNL-flights and daily CEB-flight.
Nice to se both PALExpress and 5J back there! http://www.cebupacificair.com/aboutus/press/2010/02012010.html
Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 47): CGK also got extra EK frequencies, QR 77W, additional QZ A320s delivered. Will be interesting to see the facts. On the other hand, QZ is killing GA on many international routes so reductions there.
Yes, will be interesting to see.
They also received more Lion 739s I suppose.
----------------
I returned from my Philippines trip just a few weeks ago and had my first experience on both 5J and Terminal 3, both of which I was actually quite saticfied with!
On my way back home I was lucky to find out that the plane was taking off from runway 31, which enabled me to shoot this video, I like the view! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH7lxG0X76M
Lufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3119 posts, RR: 51 Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10238 times:
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 48): Cebu Pacific is returning to MPH by March!
After seven months of absence from the airport, the airline resumes it's 11 daily MNL-flights and daily CEB-flight.
Nice to se both PALExpress and 5J back there!
Excellent news! wonder how much Gokongwei had to pay? Even nicer than to see both of them is the return of the competition... My friend needed Boracay-Manila, PALEX around 5500 PHP while 5J was 1400 ex-KLO. I find it disgusting how PALEX is ripping its customers, same with that Samar closure (can't remember Calbayog or Catarman). I know it's business but 5500 for that hop is beyond rip-off.
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 48):
Yes, will be interesting to see.
They also received more Lion 739s I suppose.
Who knows with Lion. They have probably crashed enough of crew vans Jakarta-CGK off the highway that they claim cancellations on that. Pathetic airline.
Any news of Spirit of Manila? Two MD80s at CRK last time with no activity.
Crownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1494 posts, RR: 7 Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10136 times:
Lufthansa747...I was at Clark last week. On one day, both MD-80's were on the ramp. The next day, only one was there. Their web site is not very accurate, but they seem to be flying a Taipei route from CRK, but I cannot confirm this. When I look up schedules on their site, I usually get "flight not available".
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 51, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9846 times:
There is an update (Feb 10) to the Philippine Airlines Summer Domestic Flight Schedule that boasts of the following increase in service:
Cotabato (12x weekly from current 7x)
General Santos (10x weekly from current 7x)
Laoag (10x weekly from current 7x)
Puerto Princesa (14x weekly from current 11x)
I believe thats the largest seasonal increase in service for Cotobato, General Santos and Laoag in a long time. Puerto Princesa I believes always reverts to double dailiy during peak season
Might be worth mentioning that the most of the increases end on June 6.
It appears Kalibo is maintaining its 4x daily Airbus service.
Caticlan seems downgraded to 5x daily from current 6x weekly
No indication on this schedule of Air Philippines operating A320 flights on behalf of Philippine Airlines as rumored. Perhaps it is not ready to be revealed. Could the forementioned June 6 date signal the transition?
No increase worth mentioning on the 2010 Summer International Flight schedule besides the already mentioned new service to Brisbane and Riyadh, plus the retiming of the two turnaround YVR services as nightime flights. Lets hope there are interesting changes in the next couple of days.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4088 posts, RR: 16 Reply 52, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 51): Lets hope there are interesting changes in the next couple of days.
And I'm still hoping for some (good) news about the FAA Safety Audit...
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 53, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9712 times:
A few hours after we mentioned the PR Domestic changes for the summer schedule, a 2P (Air Philippines) event is quietly announced..
So lo and behold, Air Philippines publishes a schedule effective March 23 2010 reflecting the much rumored A320 handover.
2x daily flights to Bacolod (in addition to PALs 5x daily frequency to Bacolod)
2x daily flights to Cagayan De Oro (in addition to PALs 4x daily frequency to Cagayan De Oro)
2x daily flights to Iloilo (in addition to PALs 5x daily frequency to Iloilo)
2x daily flights to Puerto Princesa (in addition to PALs recently published increase to 2x daily)
Surprising
I would have expected services to Butuan, Cotobato, Legaspi, Dipolog, Dumaguete, Laoag, Kalibo and Roxas to have transitioned to 2P A320 service-- instead of a route transfer, it appears 2P will be competing with PR on trunk routes. Remember the song 'things that make you go hmm?'
FilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9523 times:
When will the airlines at MNL Terminal 1 move to Terminal 3?
FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
ERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 241 posts, RR: 3 Reply 56, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9525 times:
Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 54): idk if this has been mentioned before, but EY adds another flight to MNL. E
I hadn't heard that. Is there an effective date? Fantastic timing for me
Quoting iflypal (Reply 53): 2x daily flights to Bacolod (in addition to PALs 5x daily frequency to Bacolod)
2x daily flights to Cagayan De Oro (in addition to PALs 4x daily frequency to Cagayan De Oro)
2x daily flights to Iloilo (in addition to PALs 5x daily frequency to Iloilo)
2x daily flights to Puerto Princesa (in addition to PALs recently published increase to 2x daily)
Maybe I'm out of the loop (likely). What is the deal with 2P? I thought they were being rolled into PR as some kind of subsidiary?
PRFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9502 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 56): Maybe I'm out of the loop (likely). What is the deal with 2P? I thought they were being rolled into PR as some kind of subsidiary?
I think 2P will be used to compete with 5J and Z2 at the same time PR cannot afford to lose it's edge of offering convenient connecting flights to and from International destinations. In fact, PR is just returning these flights which was originally being operated by 2P before.
leamside From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 443 posts, RR: 1 Reply 59, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9180 times:
Quoting PRFlyer (Reply 57): PR is just returning these flights which was originally being operated by 2P before.
Will 2P aircraft still be using PAL colors, or will they be repainted?
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 60, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 9053 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 22): Funnily enough I have had nothing but positive experiences with 5J.
Well hasn't this comment come back to bite me!
Now here in the Phils and have just booked a trip to Panglao from MNL with 5J in March via their website...or so I thought.
About 3 hours after having having the booking and payment accepted and receiving an e-mail confirming this, they then e-mail me to say that our booking was cancelled as they could not get authorisation for our CC transaction. Having checked with our bank there is no way there is any kind of problem with our CC. WTF is going on at 5J?
Now trying to rebook online and they are now trying to charge us nearly P3,000 more!
Given recent the hassles at the hands of PR, Im afraid Philippine carriers are not exactly smelling of roses as far as I'm concerned at the moment.
I had a lot of problems booking on 5J with a US card. I had my family buy the tix in the phils. Seems to be a common problem with any foreign cards, but its also inconsistent.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 62, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 9007 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 61): Seems to be a common problem with any foreign cards, but its also inconsistent.
Yeah I can see the inconsistency. What I don't understand is that 5J actually accepted the transaction and sent an e-mail to me confirming the booking. It was 90 mins later they sent me a second e-mail advising me of the CC 'problem' and asking me to rebook (as it turned out at a significantly higher price).
Sounds very suspicious to me. I have since reported 5J to my CC issuer.
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 755 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 9010 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 61): I had a lot of problems booking on 5J with a US card. I had my family buy the tix in the phils. Seems to be a common problem with any foreign cards, but its also inconsistent.
I have been using my foreign credit card (Visa and MasterCard) without any problem at Cebu Pacific's website. My friend had a similar problem when he was booking a flight. It turned out his Mastercard did not use "MasterCard SecureCode", which I think is required by Cebu Pacific.
Visa uses a similar concept called "Verified by Visa". What happens is that, at the end of the payment proces, you will be directed to a page of your card provider to type in a password you have set up for that specific card. Once that is done, payment and booking is completed.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 65, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9002 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 63): Visa uses a similar concept called "Verified by Visa". What happens is that, at the end of the payment proces, you will be directed to a page of your card provider to type in a password you have set up for that specific card. Once that is done, payment and booking is completed.
Used Visa for this transaction, the transaction was approved and an e-mail confirming the booking was sent to me. It was an hour and a half later that 5J then e-mailed me a second time to advise me of the cancellation. I was not directed to a webpage of my issuing bank at any time and as I said the booking HAD been completed. The explanation you give just does not match my experience.
Fact is as a foreign visitor to the Philippines, it should be concerning to anyone involved in the tourism industry in the Phils to see that I have now in the past 3 months been really messed around by the less than professional antics of the country's two biggest carriers. As it is some poor hotel proprietor at Alona Beach has now lost a weeks booking as we are now looking elsewhere for our beach break.
ERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 241 posts, RR: 3 Reply 66, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8967 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 63): Visa uses a similar concept called "Verified by Visa".
I have Verified by Visa. That's where my transaction stopped. It just wouldn't get past that screen.
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 65): Fact is as a foreign visitor to the Philippines, it should be concerning to anyone involved in the tourism industry in the Phils to see that I have now in the past 3 months been really messed around by the less than professional antics of the country's two biggest carriers. As it is some poor hotel proprietor at Alona Beach has now lost a weeks booking as we are now looking elsewhere for our beach break.
That's the sad part. Neither of the two big carriers make it easy to do business with them. As far as airport and onboard experience, I've enjoyed my flights with both. It just getting to that point that's tricky. I remember saying at the time, "I'm just trying to give you money, what is so difficult about that!?!"
PRFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 8942 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 66): I have Verified by Visa. That's where my transaction stopped. It just wouldn't get past that screen.
Ah....try this. The website requires browser to allow site cookies and third-party cookies for the booking process to work.
But I am also having a hard time booking a flight for a friend I am taking with me to Bangkok from Manila. PR's online site is rejecting a credit card issued by their sister company, Allied Bank. Go figure.
SQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1474 posts, RR: 17 Reply 69, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8927 times:
Okay, upon quick inspection of TG's website, TG 620/621 is staying put at daily, the flight has been retimed a bit - 09:05 departure from Suvarnabhumi and a 13:20 arrival into Ninoy Aquino, and a 14:30 departure back to BKK with an arrival time of 16:20. The equipment changes from the current 773 to a 772/772ER combo. The evening TG 624/625 stays put at it's current frequency. I don't know how this makes sense, but the outbound flight is listed as EQV (equipment varies) while the inbound back into BKK is listed as A300-600R. So I'm presuming it's the latter, as it has been for years.
jetblue777 From Philippines, joined Jul 2009, 1364 posts, RR: 1 Reply 70, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8939 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 64): Will the flight terminate in MNL or be completely removed? That would mean reducing from 2x daily to daily on MNL.
Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 67): Will the flights remain but just turnaround in Manila, or will they be terminated all together? Will there be any aircraft type change on the route?
THAI from 28MAR10 is canceling its Daily Manila – Osaka Kansai service. As a result, service to Osaka is reduced from 3 to 2 Daily, while Manila is unchanged.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 72, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8896 times:
Quoting ERJ (Reply 66):
Visa uses a similar concept called "Verified by Visa".
I have Verified by Visa. That's where my transaction stopped. It just wouldn't get past that screen.
This is where my experience is very suspicious. I did get past this stage to the point where the transaction was apparently approved and a booking confirmation was e-mailed to me, only to get another e-mail 90 mins later advising that the booking was cancelled. There just seems to be no logic to this.
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 73, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8839 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 65): Fact is as a foreign visitor to the Philippines, it should be concerning to anyone involved in the tourism industry in the Phils to see that I have now in the past 3 months been really messed around by the less than professional antics of the country's two biggest carriers. As it is some poor hotel proprietor at Alona Beach has now lost a weeks booking as we are now looking elsewhere for our beach break
Wow, you really have been put through the ringer by the flag carriers. Well, if it is any consolation, Ive had crap like that happen to me just about every continent Ive been on in some shape or the other (and this is with a US-issued Visa card).
Either way, you shouldnt have to go through the hassle. I suppose giving PAL a chance of redeeming itself is out of the question?
About skipping out of Panglao...you may want to think hard about that. Was at Alona, mind you it was in extraordinary accomodations but wow, that trip was fantastic. That was the best experience Ive had in the Philippines bar none.
Have fun wherever you wind up. Dont forget to visit a karaoke bar or two or three (oreferably with San Miguel in hand of course). That never fails to disappoint.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 75, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8665 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 73):
About skipping out of Panglao...you may want to think hard about that. Was at Alona, mind you it was in extraordinary accomodations but wow, that trip was fantastic. That was the best experience Ive had in the Philippines bar none.
Yeah been to Alona a few times now and will always be a favourite of mine - Boracay without the crowds. Like anywhere else in the Phils it is a great experience once you get there...it's the getting there that is the nightmare. Fortunatrely we are nowlooking at a package out of MNL to Panglao with Zest. (What do they operate to Tagbilaran? is it the 320 or the MA60?)
My good lady who is filipina just shrugs her shoulders now and says "Only in the Philippines..."
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 77, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8673 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 73): Either way, you shouldnt have to go through the hassle. I suppose giving PAL a chance of redeeming itself is out of the question?
Very little chance of that....they failed miserably to redeem themselves when after switching my CHC-MNL booking to SQ, I e-mailed their 'customer services' dept at their wecare@pal address (two of the most inappropriate uses of the english language I have ever encountered). Their reply? I was rebuked for being unreasonable in not accepting their rebooking me, even though this was on dates that were completely unsuitable.
I get the impression that if there ever was a fire in the PAL offices they would try to put it out with gasoline!
Pagophilus From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8621 times:
Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 54): dk if this has been mentioned before, but EY adds another flight to MNL. E
The timings look very much like what the schdule used to be like, before they changed it last year.
We were booked AUH-MNL-THR and return with reasonable connection times (just as the new flight times would give). Then EK changed their schedule and we ended up with a 20 hour wait one way and about 15 hours on the return journey. (And the touch-screen IFE didn't work properly in both directions). EY would not assist us with anything, for example a transit visa for my wife. 20 hours at AUH is very, very boring. Last time flying EY if I can help it.
edichc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 79, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8496 times:
Next instalment of the "Philippine carriers try their best to screw-up Mr & Mrs EDICHC's vacation" drama.
After the previous problems with PR & 5J, I thought things surely had to improve when trying ZestAir for the first time....more fool me!
Having spent 48 hours trying to book a simple package trip from MNL to Tagbilaran/Alona beach, then trailing across Manila to finally make the booking at one of their offices. they then phone me to tell me they have screwed up our booking by undercharging us by 6000pesos. Awaiting developments at this time but I have basically told them it is their error and it is their problem not mine. Apart from the misleading us on the price issue, why should I waste time and money tailing across Manila a second time because of their incompetence?
Is there any carrier in the Philippines that can run an airline competently? From my experiences as indicated throughout this thread the answer in my opinion is a resounding NO!
On a more serious note I am considering making a formal complaint to the authority that regulates passenger air travel in the Philippines (if there is one) except I don't know who they are. Any suggestions?
PRFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8447 times:
Quoting edichc (Reply 79): On a more serious note I am considering making a formal complaint to the authority that regulates passenger air travel in the Philippines (if there is one) except I don't know who they are. Any suggestions?
Complain to the same authorities that caused Philippine Aviation its Category II Safety rating? Good luck.
Choosing between lesser evil, I would recommend going back to PR and booking a ticket in one of their ticket office.
edichc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 81, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8442 times:
Quoting PRFlyer (Reply 80): Choosing between lesser evil, I would recommend going back to PR and booking a ticket in one of their ticket office.
Hmm not too sure they are the lesser of three evils, they really messed us about badly, cancelling our flight (for commercial reasons) and rebooking us to return on later when we were actuall due to be back at work. When I complained and told them why this was unsuitable they accused us of being unreasonable!
Point being I'm no longer prepared to trek across the city a second time for ANY carrier. As far as I'm concerned I have a binding contract with ZestAir. If they now wish to renege on that contract then they will face the legal consequences.
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 82, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8308 times:
Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 67): Will the flights remain but just turnaround in Manila, or will they be terminated all together? Will there be any aircraft type change on the route?
TG will continue to operate BKK-MNL-BKK daily with a 777.
Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 69): I don't know how this makes sense, but the outbound flight is listed as EQV (equipment varies) while the inbound back into BKK is listed as A300-600R. So I'm presuming it's the latter, as it has been for years.
Here's the good news! The evening flight is actually being changed to an A330-300 service (four of the five weekly flights, where the fifth one stays an A300-600R). This means an increase in capacity plus newer aircraft!
rockinflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 83, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days ago) and read 8226 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7): A few alternative routings for SAN-service have been discussed here over the last year or 2, including SEA, HNL, and even LAS, but YVR seems to be the option being pursued by PR -- as in, their application for SAN service. I can almost guarantee that most of us down here in So Cal would be thrilled to see PR's beautiful bird landing at and departing from Lindbergh no matter where she's coming from or going to!
I do think there might be a bit more local traffic between SAN and YVR than most people think but that routing would probably also mean a reduction in their YVR-LAS service (unless they are able to op more than 7x weekly between YVR and MNL.) I wish I knew what the options really are and how many of the many pieces, besides the FAA safety audit, are in place to make this all come together and start.
I do think routing the service thru YVR to SAN is in PR's best interest. There is alot of local traffic to be had on that route. Routing thru SEA just creates a dead leg when YVR could produce revenue. Really hope the routing to SAN is via YVR. Heck, I bet some people would fly PR from SAN to YVR just for the sake of riding the A340's. Just my hope and a valid point as well.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4088 posts, RR: 16 Reply 85, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7959 times:
Quoting rockinflyer (Reply 83): Heck, I bet some people would fly PR from SAN to YVR just for the sake of riding the A340's. Just my hope and a valid point as well.
Oh trust me, 'flyer, I know that a lot of people share your idea! I just hope we have that option some day.
It's really frustrating not hearing anything new about the FAA Safety Audit situation but I am confident that this thread will be among the first places that any news on the subject will break!
(BTW, in a related bit of news, AC has just u/g'd the equipment on their SAN-YVR service for the summer; probably a good indication of increased traffic on the route.)
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 86, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7888 times:
While looking through Zest Airways' flight schedule, I noticed they are adding the equivalent of three daily A320 flights to KLO, LGP, TAG, BCD, CEB, DVO in mid March. This requires them to have a fourth A320, but I didn't know they had more on order. Does anyone here know more about Zest's current and future fleet?
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 84): Beginning March 29, 2010, Air China will launch its Beijing (PEK) - Manila (MNL) route with three flights a week.
Looks like they will be using a 738 on the 4h55m flight (4h40m on the return).
Wonder if CA will offer good through fares from their overseas European and North American destinations. Nice with another *A flying to MNL.
These are somewhat old news, it was discussed briefly about three months ago.
Like you say, one hopes that they will offer reasonable fares to MNL.
I am one for sure who wouldn't mind transfering through PEK T3!
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 755 posts, RR: 0 Reply 87, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7803 times:
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 86): These are somewhat old news, it was discussed briefly about three months ago.
Like you say, one hopes that they will offer reasonable fares to MNL.
I am one for sure who wouldn't mind transfering through PEK T3!
Thanks for letting me know. I did an extensive search here on the forums, but couldn't find any word on it.
I wonder if CA will code-share with SK on this MNL flight.
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 88, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7662 times:
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 87): I wonder if CA will code-share with SK on this MNL flight.
I doubt it. If SK was to codeshare to MNL at all, I would think it would be with TG (2x daily) or SQ (4x daily) than the 3x weekly flights that CA offers. I dont know what the timings are on the Beijing-Copenhagen or Beijing-Stockholm flights on either CA or SK, but judging from the published schedule, it may not be condusive to good connections.
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 89, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7659 times:
[quote=Iflypal,reply=0]CATICLAN
PALEX/Air Philippines recently restarted services to Caticlan (Dec 1 2009), in time for the big Christmas/New Years exodus to Boracay. It appears that the ATO/CAAP had no issues with the Q300 allowing PAL to resume service there, but not the MA-60 or the ATRs operated by Zest Airways/Cebu Pacific respectively. Also noticing that even with the resumption of services to Caticlan, that PAL is still operating four daily frequencies to Kalibo using a mix of A319/A320s,
Anyone out there have an idea of:
-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on SEAIRs operations to Caticlan as it was previously the only carrier able to provide direct services to MPH due to the ATO restrictions?
-whether or not the resumption of PALEX services put a dent on PALs own mainline service to Kalibo.
-was there an influx of passengers resisting Cebu Pacific or Zest Air Kalibo services in favor of/once direct Caticlan flights were resumed by PALEX
Wow, Im actually quoting myself...
So in a few days, Cebu Pacific will be resuming services to Caticlan. While PALEX/2P reduces their schedule to 5x daily, Cebu Pacific is bombarding beaches with 8 daily flights. Not sure when Zest will join the fray, but Im thinking Seair has to be a bit anxious right now.
PRFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7641 times:
It would definitely impact Seair since Seair has the highest airfare amongst the airlines servicing Caticlan.
We are heading to Boracay next month and I am debating whether from MNL to go direct to Caticlan or take Kalibo and enjoy the 2 hours scenic drive. I'm leaning towards Kalibo since airfare is a lot cheaper and both 5J and PR use A320s. But it is more fun on the Q300 or ATR72 and the view approaching MPH is beautiful.
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 92, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7623 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 91): They might be more competitive if they acquire newer aircraft like this to replace their old Lets.....
Im fairly certain Caticlan is an all Dornier 328 destination is it not? Seair flies the LETS in ever smaller markets like Bonangan? (sp), Basco, Busuanga etc. All three bigger carriers (PR/2P, Z2, 5J) are slowly encroaching on the leisure markets that Seair is specializing in so unless it find new markets soon, Im worried about its existence. Upper Luzon would have been a good for them, but even new entrants like Sky Pasada (sp) are establishing inroads faster than Seair is. Perhaps they need to look south to Mindanao and claim it as their own. Or perhaps focus its growth on Busuanga/Puerto Princesa, which after Boracay and Cebu, seems to be the next beach destination haven.
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 93, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7618 times:
Quoting PRFlyer (Reply 90): I'm leaning towards Kalibo since airfare is a lot cheaper and both 5J and PR use A320s. But it is more fun on the Q300 or ATR72 and the view approaching MPH is beautiful
I would take Caticlan any day. The Kalibo scenery is good for the first fifteen minutes (only because you know your only 2 hours away from paradise) but after that, its gets to be a long, long ride. Keep in mind you still need to get dropped off at the jetty station, take a pumpboat ride, get off the jetty station on the other end and then take a ride to White Beach. Gone are the days when the pumpboat ride took you directly to the beach fronting your hotel.
Plus, how/why would you pass up a bumpy, hard braking landing at Caticlan airport?
Have a great time in Boracay. Im sure I speak on behalf of a lot of jealous people right now.
PRFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 94, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7541 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 92): Im fairly certain Caticlan is an all Dornier 328 destination is it not?
Trivia: Did you know that the part owner (30%) of Seair is Iren Dornier? Iren Dornier is a German pilot and is the grandson of German flying pioneer Claudius Dornier.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 95, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7509 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 92): Im fairly certain Caticlan is an all Dornier 328 destination is it not? Seair flies the LETS in ever smaller markets like Bonangan?
They were still flying the L-410s to Caticlan as recently as three months ago.....
Did they pull those out of MPH totally? Was just back 2/16 from a two week visit to MNL. Hoped for side trip to Boracay didn't happen.
Quoting PRFlyer (Reply 94): Trivia: Did you know that the part owner (30%) of Seair is Iren Dornier?
I was on record here that Seair should bring more of the 328s to RP after their first. Agree that for commonality, it's only sensible to stick with the type. Especially now that RUAG is resuming 228 production, and could be in a position to streamline parts supply for other models.
Am only eager to see Q200s on Philippine routes as I know the business case is not so convincing.
FilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7307 times:
Will any of the non-Philippine airlines use MNL Terminal 3 or will they all wait for CRK to complete its projects?
FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
Quote: "MANILA, Philippines--Four multinational airlines have expressed their interest to set up shop at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (Naia) terminal 3, once all the facility’s legal issues have been sorted out.
As a result, Naia 3’s current occupants, particularly Cebu Pacific Air of the Gokongwei group, may lose the luxury of having their entire Manila operations under one roof.
As more airlines clamor to be transferred from the decades-old Naia terminal 1 to the more modern terminal 3, a compromise will have to be made, the Manila International Airport Authority said."
PR's second 77W would make a nice backdrop there.....
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 99, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7047 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 92): Or perhaps focus its growth on Busuanga/Puerto Princesa, which after Boracay and Cebu, seems to be the next beach destination haven.
Yeah but Z2 already seem to be established on both those routes, and as I was recently considering a trip to Palawan, was looking at their fares and they were pretty good...ended up going to Bohol though. Can't help but thinking with smaller equipment Seair just ain't going to be able to compete.
devilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 100, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6809 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 99): Can't help but thinking with smaller equipment Seair just ain't going to be able to compete.
They may still be fine with their 328s at MPH, but will need higher capacity aircraft where the demand is there. I wonder if they could finance 12-year old ATR-72s from China.....
lukeyboy95 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 735 posts, RR: 27 Reply 101, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6676 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 92): Or perhaps focus its growth on Busuanga/Puerto Princesa, which after Boracay and Cebu, seems to be the next beach destination haven.
I really hope growth in these two destinations is steady, in order to let the destinations cope and adjust with the any increases in air traffic. I am always impressed that PAL sends an A330 out to PPS! So very cool... Does anyone have a picture of this?
I've always considered Palawan to be Philippine wilderness, but it seems to be really getting on the map nowadays.
terminalc From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 102, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6531 times:
I notice this on PR's site today:
From March 28, PAL will operate four times weekly to Riyadh, with departures every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday.
Boeing 747-400 aircraft, which seat 12 passengers in business class, 32 in premium economy and 383 in economy, will be deployed on the non-stop route.
I gather that they'll dedicate RP-C8168 to this route & sell the old biz seats as premium economy & the old first section as biz. But the front cabin has 18 seats. Maybe this odd ball will be removed from TPAC.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 105, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5848 times:
Hi Guys...back in NZ after an 'eventful' trip to the Phils, and just wanted to ask a question regarding developments down in Bohol.
I noted when down there a few weeks ago that one of the causeway/bridges linking Panglao to Bohol was closed for upgrading work. I asked our taxi driver when we were leaving what was the reasoning behind the road improvements. He replied that the roads linking Bohol to Panglao were being improved in preparation for the new airport to serve both Panglao and Tagbilaran.
I was not aware of these plans...where in Panglao will this new airport be exactly? What size are we talking about? Presumably it will be substantially larger than the current facility. I will also miss the existing airport, ok it's very basic but to me that is it's charm.
viasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1702 posts, RR: 8 Reply 106, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5755 times:
Quoting cityairline (Reply 104): And where will they get these ten aircraft? Don't tell me all will come from PAL?
I'm very sure that most of Air Phils A320s will come from Philippines (the former US Airways and MyTravel Airways Scandinavia A320s). But I don't think, that all ten are former PAL aircrafts.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 107, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5503 times:
As mentioned in another thread....
The EU has banned all Philippine Carrier from operating into EU member states.
At this time, and in isolation, this is of course a relatively insignificant measure as no Philippine carrier operates anywhere in the EU. It begs the question though will the FAA follow suit? Heaven forbid that it should happen, but if there was a safety/maintenance related incident on a PR service to/from the US involving serious injury or fatality, then the FAA might have a mega lawsuit on their hands for failing to follow the EU.
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 5 Reply 108, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5477 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 107): At this time, and in isolation, this is of course a relatively insignificant measure as no Philippine carrier operates anywhere in the EU.
An additional drawback is, though, that EU carriers are not allowed to issue interline tickets on any blacklisted carrier, and AFAIK EU travel agents aren't allowed to issue them either. Also, many EU insurance companies have excluded damage when flying on banned carriers from their cover.
I assume at PR people are very busy to get them an individual assessment, to get lifted, just like TAAG or Garuda for example.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 109, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5452 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 108): An additional drawback is, though, that EU carriers are not allowed to issue interline tickets on any blacklisted carrier, and AFAIK EU travel agents aren't allowed to issue them either. Also, many EU insurance companies have excluded damage when flying on banned carriers from their cover.
I had not considered this aspect. I guess this will have some significance for Balikbayans in Europe who live in the Visayas or Mindanao who try to book connecting domestic sectors.
I was in Bohol a few weeks ago and noted quite a few German visitors there, more than on previous visits, will an insurance exclusion on flying PR, 5J or Z2 to the likes of TAG or Caticlan have an effect on European visitor numbers?
DCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 573 posts, RR: 4 Reply 110, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5454 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 107): It begs the question though will the FAA follow suit?
The FAA has already completed its legal mandate to review the Philippines and institute restrictions. By placing Philippines in Category 2, it has frozen the US destinations, capacity, frequency and aircraft type available to PAL. I don't think there is any further legal step they can take. Because Philippines is in Category 2, PAL is subject to increased surveillance when flying into the the US.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 111, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5409 times:
Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 110): I don't think there is any further legal step they can take.
Why is that? I'm not questioning your knowledge ..I just don't know.
As I suggested in my previous post but one...what would be the legal comeback on the FAA if (heaven forbid) PR had a fatal accident on a US service, if it was found to be caused in part by poor safety standards? If the European Commission have found that a ban is warranted, what defence would the FAA have for not implementing a ban?
The wording of the European Commission was "due to serious safety deficiencies"...heavy stuff!
SQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1474 posts, RR: 17 Reply 112, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5369 times:
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 82): Here's the good news! The evening flight is actually being changed to an A330-300 service (four of the five weekly flights, where the fifth one stays an A300-600R). This means an increase in capacity plus newer aircraft!
Wow that's a really nice upgrade, I'd love to fly on one of TG's new A333s - they look very nicely kitted out!
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 84):
Beginning March 29, 2010, Air China will launch its Beijing (PEK) - Manila (MNL) route with three flights a week.
Looks like they will be using a 738 on the 4h55m flight (4h40m on the return).
A 738 sounds pretty brutal for that long a flight - on CA no less. I personally hate CA, they had horrible service, the food was downright nasty and the crew completely disinterested in their job. As cabin crew myself I hate to rag on fellow crew at different airlines, but I seriously doubted the crew's competency to perform their duties in an emergency or at least the importance they placed on internationally regarded safety regulations. They were trying to stuff hand baggage in the emergency equipment overhead compartments, they let passengers get up during taxi out and taxi in after landing, and they left an inop lav open for use throughout the flight which as you might imagine got quite nasty.
Quoting terminalc (Reply 102): Boeing 747-400 aircraft, which seat 12 passengers in business class, 32 in premium economy and 383 in economy, will be deployed on the non-stop route.
I gather that they'll dedicate RP-C8168 to this route & sell the old biz seats as premium economy & the old first section as biz. But the front cabin has 18 seats. Maybe this odd ball will be removed from TPAC.
Hmm very interesting config - given the passenger profile the 744s carry, especially on the TPAC flights to LAX and SFO, do you think a prem econ class might be a good addition to the PAL product? Especially given that they have now taken F out and replaced it with lie-flat J.
terryb99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 113, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5324 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 107): As mentioned in another thread....
The EU has banned all Philippine Carrier from operating into EU member states.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3759 posts, RR: 1 Reply 114, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5282 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 108): Also, many EU insurance companies have excluded damage when flying on banned carriers from their cover.
Many insurance companies do not have these exemptions. I don't know of any travel insurance not covering flying on a banned airline. The same for corporate travel. Many coporations ban travel on banned airlines only when there is an alternative.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18936 posts, RR: 52 Reply 115, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5261 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 111): Why is that? I'm not questioning your knowledge ..I just don't know.
As I suggested in my previous post but one...what would be the legal comeback on the FAA if (heaven forbid) PR had a fatal accident on a US service, if it was found to be caused in part by poor safety standards? If the European Commission have found that a ban is warranted, what defence would the FAA have for not implementing a ban?
The wording of the European Commission was "due to serious safety deficiencies"...heavy stuff!
The US does not follow the EU, and EU does not follow the US. Each has their own established measurements.
Its really no different then the host of other things which might be unsafe in one nation but authorized in another. Look at various chemicals, pharmaceuticals, or even vehicle safety rules. What is OK in one state, might be banned in another.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
cityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 567 posts, RR: 1 Reply 116, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5147 times:
Quoting viasa (Reply 106): I'm very sure that most of Air Phils A320s will come from Philippines (the former US Airways and MyTravel Airways Scandinavia A320s). But I don't think, that all ten are former PAL aircrafts.
Thanks alot for the information!
I chose to look further into this and found this very interesting article!
Apparently, it seems like they have decided to have not only ten, but twenty A320s added to their fleet!!
According to the article, only these two A320 were to be leased from PAL, while the other 18 will be brand-new aircraft directly from the factory.
Four more will come later this year, another four in 2011, another five in 2012, and the last five in 2013.
If this push through, then Air Philippines will with its 28 aircraft (20 Airbus + 8 Dash) become the same size as CebuPacific is today with 29 aircraft (21 Airbus + 8 ATR).
Nice to see the development of this!
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 117, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5103 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 115): The US does not follow the EU, and EU does not follow the US. Each has their own established measurements.
I am well aware of that.
I was asking however in hypothetical circumstances if there was a fatal accident involving PR on a US service, and there was a civil suit lodged against the FAA for failing to implement a ban like the EU have, any legal team for plaintiffs would probably tear the FAA apart (legally speaking).
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 5562 posts, RR: 58 Reply 118, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4967 times:
There was supposed to be a FAA safety audit of the Philippne CAA in March; any idea how that went ?
iflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 63 posts, RR: 2 Reply 119, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4858 times:
An additional drawback is, though, that EU carriers are not allowed to issue interline tickets on any blacklisted carrier, and AFAIK EU travel agents aren't allowed to issue them either. Also, many EU insurance companies have excluded damage when flying on banned carriers from their cover.
I assume at PR people are very busy to get them an individual assessment, to get lifted, just like TAAG or Garuda for example
That is a significant drawback, although I would I assume most Philippine bound European passengers book their inter island domestic tickets when get to the Philippines (rule of thumb is that is almost always cheaper to buy it locally) as most tourist/travel guides provide this a tip in ther 'Getting to the Philippines sections.
As EDICHC can almost attest to, its also always a bear of a task to buy tickets outside on either carrier PR/5J due to credit card acceptance issues, etc. I always thought though that the EU restrictions pertain to only the operational and airspace aspects and not so much the commercial end of it.
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 109): was in Bohol a few weeks ago and noted quite a few German visitors there, more than on previous visits, will an insurance exclusion on flying PR, 5J or Z2 to the likes of TAG or Caticlan have an effect on European visitor numbers?
I would bet that most inbound passengers from Europe to either the likes of Tagbilaran or Caticlan have their sights already on the going to the beach vacations. A liken it to your pains with the PR/5J. You endure a little bit of discomfort and frustration, but in the end of the day, your heart is set on Alona and heck and high water will not prevent you from getting there . Seriously though, I would bet that PAL takes the exclusion/exemption route ala Garuda. It does not serve in their interests to wait for CAAP to comply. It appears on the surface that the EU regulations are more forgiving or flexible than the US Category 2. There are no provisions and exclusions there.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 120, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4702 times:
Quoting iflypal (Reply 119): /5J. You endure a little bit of discomfort and frustration, but in the end of the day, your heart is set on Alona and heck and high water will not prevent you from getting there
Very true, once you get there certainly makes up for the frustration beforehand!
Quoting iflypal (Reply 119): Seriously though, I would bet that PAL takes the exclusion/exemption route ala Garuda.
While there may not be an issue about travel tickets, there will almost certainly be problems re travel insurance. i just checked with my mom who recently retired as an insurance actuary. If as a result of this ban, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth office issue an advisory to travellers not to travel on Philippine registered carriers as a result of this ban then any UK issued insurance policy will not pay out on ANY claim associated with travel on that carrier, be that death, injury or just mundane stuff like excessive delay, cancellation or lost baggage. She is fairly certain that most EU states will have similar provisions.
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Even nicer than to see both of them is the return of the competition... My friend needed Boracay-Manila, PALEX around 5500 PHP while 5J was 1400 ex-KLO. I find it disgusting how PALEX is ripping its customers, same with that Samar closure (can't remember Calbayog or Catarman). I know it's business but 5500 for that hop is beyond rip-off.
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