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ET Planning Daily To IAD Via FCO For Summer 2010  
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

http://airlineroute.net/2010/01/04/et-iad-s10/

Always saw it as strange why ET does not use IAD to feed UA/AC on a codeshare basis to increase volume and sustain the daily load. I would think LAX, ATL, ORD, YYZ would make sense. With the T7-2LR, they could even go non-stop.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1668 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5835 times:

Eventually ET will operate ADD-IAD nonstop once the necessary a/c (77L) arrives. I'm surprised that ET doesn't codeshare or interline with UA through Dulles. It's no secret that ET is tilting towards *A and of course IAD is a huge *A East coast hub. How come this hasn't happened yet?

User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5791 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 1):
I'm surprised that ET doesn't codeshare or interline with UA through Dulles.

Indeed, that was my question as well... The only guess I could come up with is that they don't want to cannibalize the LH codeshare on the FRA-US destinations??? I think the codeshare to SFO, LAX and a couple of other destinations with LH at FRA.


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

ET is supposed to join Star around Dec 2010.

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5272 times:



Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 2):
Indeed, that was my question as well

This probably isn't a priority for UA. It would help ET a lot but to UA it probably is meaningless. And UA may not want to upset UA-LH cooperation via FRA to ADD, no?


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5170 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 4):
UA may not want to upset UA-LH cooperation via FRA to ADD, no?

Very well could be. In the long run though, I hope ET will be able to utlize the Star hub at IAD to its full extent; otherwise, the alliance is merely a one way street to serve the purposes of the very big, e.g. LH.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25055 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5159 times:



Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 5):
the alliance is merely a one way street to serve the purposes of the very big, e.g. LH.

In fairness, not alliance members are created equal. Internally within Star there are different groupings with for instance UA-LH being in the top, and new member Egypt Air on the bottom. Accordingly carriers participate and have access to different benefits.

As far as what United might or might not do with ET, ultimately UA will do what is best for it, and in general across the Atlantic its best to keep traffic within its A++ JV partners instead of giving traffic to non JV member like TK for example.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4905 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
As far as what United might or might not do with ET, ultimately UA will do what is best for it, and in general across the Atlantic its best to keep traffic within its A++ JV partners instead of giving traffic to non JV member like TK for example.

Certainly, the joint venture takes precedence. I am sure there must be advantages to the smaller carriers in the alliance (or any of the alliances for that matter).


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4865 times:



Quoting ETinCaribe (Thread starter):
Always saw it as strange why ET does not use IAD to feed UA/AC on a codeshare basis to increase volume and sustain the daily load. I would think LAX, ATL, ORD, YYZ would make sense.

I'm sure ET already interlines with UA/AC and many other carriers at IAD and their European destinations. And to/from all the cities you mention, why connect at IAD which requires 2 stops to/from ADD due to the current ET routing via FCO, when you can connect in Europe and do it with just one stop, and in many cases probably faster (and in the case of YYZ without the hassle of dealing with US immigration/customs and, depending on your nationality, possibly require a U.S. transit visa.


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4739 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
And to/from all the cities you mention, why connect at IAD which requires 2 stops to/from ADD due to the current ET routing via FCO

That is a valid point, I agree, even if it is just a technical stop. The only justification may be the ethiopian diaspora in those cities, but I would think that other East African transit pax would be needed.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

ET should seriously lobby hard to get 5th freedom traffic rights from Ghana to USA as currently their FCO-IAD flights cannot carry 5th freedom pax/cargo traffic.

Flying via ACC would be a high revenue earner for the carrier and a more sensible option.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25055 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
Flying via ACC would be a high revenue earner for the carrier and a more sensible option.

I dont think United would appreciate that much commencing IAD-ACC service this year.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
Flying via ACC would be a high revenue earner for the carrier and a more sensible option.

It is my understanding that ET has been looking at using DKR, ROB (Monrovia, Liberia), RAI (Praia, Cabo Verde), ACC and others as a stopover to the US since the 90s (before SA, DL, UA ever started their respective services). For some reason, none has ever made it. And one option was with the Ghana International Airline which never took off the ground.

[Edited 2010-01-11 09:45:04]

User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4213 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
ET should seriously lobby hard to get 5th freedom traffic rights from Ghana to USA

The way I see it, ET has two options:
1) use a T7 and go daily nonstop ADD-IAD and provide a short access to the US from East Africa, avoiding a European stopover (and transit visa requirements, if applicable)
2) try to change the stopover to ACC or some other point in West Africa leveraging 5th freedom traffic, if approved

Given the history, I would go with option #1.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4012 times:



Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 13):
1) use a T7 and go daily nonstop ADD-IAD and provide a short access to the US from East Africa, avoiding a European stopover (and transit visa requirements, if applicable)

That's probably what they are planning since they ordered 777-200/LR with first delivery in Oct10.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3997 times:



Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 13):

The way I see it, ET has two options:
1) use a T7 and go daily nonstop ADD-IAD and provide a short access to the US from East Africa, avoiding a European stopover (and transit visa requirements, if applicable)
2) try to change the stopover to ACC or some other point in West Africa leveraging 5th freedom traffic, if approved

Given the history, I would go with option #1.

What we fail to see is that ET can still justify a daily (or sometimes 4-5 times per week) service on this route without a codeshare partner and even with a one stop service via FCO. With its enhanced schedule to East African destinations which takes effect in June, all flights to/from IAD will be able to connect to places like Nairobi, Dar, Entebbe, Kigali etc. on both morning and evening arrivals.

The anticipated nonstop service with the T7s will only enhance this (and provide addtional capacity)

/typing this as I watch outside my window an ET 752 take off during the morning bank Big grin


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3830 times:



Quoting ETStar (Reply 15):
/typing this as I watch outside my window an ET 752 take off during the morning bank 

Nice, from where?


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3758 times:
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Even if ET receives the 77L, I do wonder if they'll ever be cleared to fly non-stop to the U.S knowing the Homeland security's distrust regarding East African airports.

KQ is still prevented from flying to the US beacuse the same issue.

And we all know why PK can't make the most of its 77Ls...



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3666 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):
Even if ET receives the 77L, I do wonder if they'll ever be cleared to fly non-stop to the U.S knowing the Homeland security's distrust regarding East African airports.

What difference would nonstop make ADD-IAD versus ADD-FCO-IAD when there are no passengers deplaning/enplaning at FCO currently? I would bet that ADD has high enough standards to placate worries from the US.


User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3653 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):
KQ is still prevented from flying to the US beacuse the same issue.

DL had to drop its planned flight to NBO because the airport did not meet the Homeland Security standards, from what I can gather, so it may not be just a KQ limitation (again, you may know more than I do on this, so correct me if I am wrong).


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17416 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3633 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
currently their FCO-IAD flights cannot carry 5th freedom pax/cargo traffic.

They have the rights I believe--or at least they did--they just don't use them. The current FCOIAD schedule is not good for the local market.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 15):
What we fail to see is that ET can still justify a daily (or sometimes 4-5 times per week) service on this route without a codeshare partner and even with a one stop service via FCO



Quoting ETStar (Reply 15):
The anticipated nonstop service with the T7s will only enhance this (and provide addtional capacity)

The current service isn't that full and the fares are a mixed bag, so I'm skeptical that a 77L nonstop will do well. I could definitely see it going both ways.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3591 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):

Even if ET receives the 77L, I do wonder if they'll ever be cleared to fly non-stop to the U.S knowing the Homeland security's distrust regarding East African airports.

Ethiopia is not Kenya; Ethiophia is mostly Christian wheras Kenya is mostly muslim. The US embassy in Kneya was bombed by Al Qaeda in the 1990s; I'm not aware of any bombings of US interests in Ethiopia.

Therefore, ET should have no problems to fly nonstop ADD-IAD with the new 77Ls. Again, they ordered these planes to be more competetive with carrieres like EK and QR to other points in Africa like LOS, ACC, NBO, DAR etc. ET has a huge African network and will benefit greatly from nonstop flights. They also mentioned in their press relaease when they ordered the 77Ls that they will fly them to PEK which sees a lot of business traffic to/from Africa.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17416 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3583 times:



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 17):
Even if ET receives the 77L, I do wonder if they'll ever be cleared to fly non-stop to the U.S knowing the Homeland security's distrust regarding East African airports.

I don't think passengers are rescreened in FCO, are they? I think they arrive in the US screened only in ADD so it shouldn't be a huge difference from one stop to nonstop.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
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Good to see ET continuing to grow . I hope that with the deliveries of their new 777, 787 and A350 fleets that they will consolidate existing routes and be able to drop intermediate stops . I am surprised that they only fly to IAD , perhaps EWR will come on board also at some point ?

Quoting The777Man (Reply 21):
Ethiopia is not Kenya; Ethiophia is mostly Christian wheras Kenya is mostly muslim.

That will come as news to most Kenyans ! I was under the impression that Muslims made up approx 10% of the Kenyan population as opposed to approx 30% of the Ethiopian population . Perhaps you could explain the source of your belief that Kenya is 'mostly muslim' .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3544 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
They have the rights I believe--or at least they did--they just don't use them. The current FCOIAD schedule is not good for the local market.

Really? That would be interesting. Is there an easily-accessed source for all Fifth Freedom rights currently extant (at least for USA-beyond)?


25 Post contains links MaverickM11 : ET Granted Rights To Fly Italy-USA. (by Nycfly75 Mar 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)
26 The777Man : That was from meeting people from both Kenya and Ethiopia but it looks like I stand corrected; Kenya has less muslims then Ethiopia. However, it does
27 757ops : I am sure that there will be no problem, the airport in ADD was modified a couple of years ago to comply with Israeli Security due to ET flying to TL
28 Post contains links Kiwiandrew : Sorry for going OT , but I was under the impression that operations were meant to be starting at the end of this week http://airlineroute.net/2009/12
29 Post contains links ETinCaribe : According to this news report posted on Jan 13, festivities to mark the launch of the airline should be underway as we speak (or write) in Lome. http
30 Kiwiandrew : Thanks for that . Interesting , previous reports had indicated that the flights would use ETs designator ( which I thought was a bit strange even all
31 ETStar : Currently in ADD. If there was "distrust" from ADD, then the flight would not be able to operate at all. No security screening is done at FCO, simply
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