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Air Austral - Sydney To Paris Flights  
User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11554 times:

Just saw this pic on airliners.net:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-A...stral/Boeing-777-2Q8/ER/1637136/M/

Does anyone know what the load factor has been on Air Austral's flights between Sydney & Paris?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11517 times:

And Air Austral will soon look even more spectacular when they begin A380 service, as per their recent order with Airbus!



User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8499 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11446 times:
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Brilliant strategy for an airline from a small Indian Ocean Island nation. Put your two biggest routes as a bridge from end to end.

User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11445 times:



Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 1):
And Air Austral will soon look even more spectacular when they begin A380 service

800 passengers in a plane is hardly what I'd call spectacular. I'll prefer QF, SQ or EK going via Singapore or Dubai thanks.


User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11275 times:



Quoting Cpd (Reply 3):
800 passengers in a plane is hardly what I'd call spectacular. I'll prefer QF, SQ or EK going via Singapore or Dubai thanks.

Sure. When they fly to Réunion.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1596 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11250 times:

April- 16.4%
May- 15.2%
June- 19.0%
July- 48.7%
August- 22.6%
September- 20.5%
October- 31.5%

As per BITRE

So not good at all


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 3028 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11156 times:



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
April- 16.4%
May- 15.2%
June- 19.0%
July- 48.7%
August- 22.6%
September- 20.5%
October- 31.5%

As per BITRE

So not good at all

Damn that is absolutely shocking. Yields would also be bad. Cant see how this can last.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11131 times:
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Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
As per BITRE

What is BITRE ?

Do you know whether the loads quoted include NOU originating pax or just SYD originating pax , in which case the load factor of the whole route could be higher eg if in October the aircraft was 31.5% filled with SYD-RUN pax and 47.0% filled with NOU-RUN through pax then the actual load on the aircraft would be closer to 80% ?

[Edited 2010-01-08 23:39:51 by kiwiandrew]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5011 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11131 times:



Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
April- 16.4%
May- 15.2%
June- 19.0%
July- 48.7%
August- 22.6%
September- 20.5%
October- 31.5%

As per BITRE

So not good at all

Damn that is absolutely shocking. Yields would also be bad. Cant see how this can last.

I was about to ask the same question... How can an airline survive on a route with such a low load factor...??

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11018 times:



Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
I was about to ask the same question... How can an airline survive on a route with such a low load factor...??

very simple : just because they are heavily subsidized by the regional government of Reunion island (so by the tax payers) who think that they absolutely need their own airline to satisfy their ego. This is exactly the same situation as TN in French Polynesia.
UU is successful on routes between France and RUN (explaining their order of A380) and on regional routes, but I always thought this route RUN-SYD-NOU would not work. The load factors speak by themselves.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1596 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10911 times:

http://www.btre.gov.au/info.aspx?NodeId=49

Sorry there is the link

BITRE is Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics

Air Austral services are shown as Air Caledonia so are not represented in that data


User currently offlineCpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10811 times:



Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 4):

Sure. When they fly to Réunion.

But the title of the message said Paris. Assuming I were going to Paris, there are many better options than sitting on a cattle truck with wings.


User currently offlinePlanesavvy From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

Out of interest, do they try and sell connections between Sydney and Johannesburg? How much traffic could they get there?

User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1109 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9785 times:



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
April- 16.4%
May- 15.2%
June- 19.0%
July- 48.7%
August- 22.6%
September- 20.5%
October- 31.5%

Are these load factors for CDG-RUN-SYD or just RUN-SYD?

These are indeed terrible. UU should suspend the route immediately!


User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 747 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

They have priced themselves at the upper end and are competing against big players.

Some fares I found to Europe ex Aus.

UU $1829
OZ $1679
CX $1599-1859
EK $1699-2029
KE $1449
MH $1779

Unless you have a good reputation and customers are aware of you, why would you fly with them. I can imagine Joe Public "Air who?"



B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9499 times:



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 5):
April- 16.4%
May- 15.2%
June- 19.0%
July- 48.7%
August- 22.6%
September- 20.5%
October- 31.5%

As per BITRE

So not good at all



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 7):

Do you know whether the loads quoted include NOU originating pax or just SYD originating pax



Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 13):
Are these load factors for CDG-RUN-SYD or just RUN-SYD?

All good questions. The answers can be found at this link: http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/11/Files/1009_M.pdf on pages 19 & 20.

To summerise, the load factor numbers DO NOT include pax carried CDG/RUN-NOU & VV nor SYD-NOU pax (they are under Air Caledonia) so are understated, possibly greatly understated.

Quote:

Therefore, for other airlines [other than QF] operating via Australia, the seat factors shown here reflect the total seats on the aircraft but only the Australian uplift/discharge portion of on the aircraft. The true seat factors for airlines that operate via Australia will most likely be higher than what is shown in this table.
For example, on Dubai-Sydney-Auckland services:
Seats on the Dubai-Sydney sector are taken up by Dubai-Sydney and Dubai-Auckland passengers. However, when calculating seat factors, only the Dubai-Sydney passengers are used.
Similarly, seats on the Sydney-Auckland sector are taken up by Sydney-Auckland and Dubai-Auckland passengers. However, when calculating seat factors, only the Sydney-Auckland passengers are used.
The following airlines are affected:
Air Austral, Emirates and Royal Brunei Airlines
/Quote

And notes a) & b) from table 3
Quote
(a) Traffic carried via Australia to/from New Caledonia is not recorded and therefore, reported seat utilisation figures are understated.
(b) Operations between Australia and New Caledonia are shown under Air Caledonie.
/Quote

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9401 times:

I have never seen any travel agents or newspaper travel section here promote Air Austral/stop over in Reunion.
I find this quite odd.
I think more could be done to promote it on this end. Maybe becoming a Velocity member as well ? (this Reunion route is even on route map in Virgin Blue's magazine)
Initially I did come across some Air Austral ad's in oddly out of all magazines, Men's Health.

So maybe this 20% odd percent load factor represents only the fit muscley pax, ha ha  Big grin


User currently offlinePagophilus From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9232 times:

They price themselves out of contention. 855 Euro for a return tri[ Sydney-Reunion is a bit much. I'd rather fly Air Mauritius (or anyone else for that matter) for a reasonable fare.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8984 times:
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Wow! Their prices are quite high. Do they offer a grand inflight service experience? How can they still be flying this route with such heavy competition.

How's Air Austral's service?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8885 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 18):
Wow! Their prices are quite high. Do they offer a grand inflight service experience? How can they still be flying this route with such heavy competition.

As far as I know, their primary markets are their domestic cabotage markets, Paris-Reunion and Paris-Noumea (New Caledonia), not Paris-Sydney. Their Y class product on 777s is 10-abreast (like AF and KL 77Ws, alll EK 777s, and a few others), but they also offer a premium economy and business class cabin.
http://www.air-austral.com/your-trip-long-haul.html


User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8836 times:

With loads that poor on whatever aircraft they are using now, will there be enough people to fill the A380?  Confused

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8730 times:



Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 20):
With loads that poor on whatever aircraft they are using now, will there be enough people to fill the A380?

You don't know that loads are poor from those statistics. As noted in Reply 15, you have no idea what the load factor is without knowing how much traffic they are carrying to/from the terminal point NOU.


User currently offlineEta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8719 times:

This has been discussed many times before, so hopefully for the last time...

when UTA, Air France, and AOM operated NOU-SYD-beyond it is not possible to get an accurate pax load factor ex SYD as the statistics do not take into consideration the NOU boarded transit pax. I can tell you when UTA flew the route, the load factor ex SYD on paper was terrible, but the flight usually arrived full from NOU and thre weren't that many available seats for SYD sales to sell. Considering Corsair even pulled put of NOU, I would imagine Air Austral must have a Govt. contract of sorts to make RUN-NOU worthwhile.

Note: Emirates and Royal Brunei flights that originate in NZ are also affected by the statistics.


User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8108 times:



Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 20):
With loads that poor on whatever aircraft they are using now, will there be enough people to fill the A380?

The A380 for UU will be in very high density (800+, Y seats config only). This bird will be exclusively on CDG-RUN (not RUN-SYD AFAIK). There is a lot of traffic between metropolitan France and RUN, so they should be able to fill it if they price it correctly.

Quoting Eta unknown (Reply 22):
Considering Corsair even pulled put of NOU, I would imagine Air Austral must have a Govt. contract of sorts to make RUN-NOU worthwhile.

I doubt that there is any govt contract for UU (they have subsidies from the Reunion island regional govt but this is not the same) because there is absolutely no need for a flight RUN-NOU (no O/D traffic). And on the new Caledonia side, they will likely favor their own airline, Air Calin (SB), which fly to Japan (NRT, KIX) and to ICN to connect with the AF flights to CDG and this is a faster and more convenient way to fly to France than going through SYD and RUN.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
I was about to ask the same question... How can an airline survive on a route with such a low load factor...??

My question is who finances Air Austral? Where does the airline money come from?
They got to have pretty good money to buy a 380.

Also how can they afford to lose so much with such low load factor?

Who owns this airline? I would have a difficult time believing that one private owner form Réunion would own the airline!  

This is all very mysterious. Maybe they have some magicians there that can make money appear from out of the blue.  

[Edited 2010-01-10 05:44:54]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
25 Kiwiandrew : As has been mentioned above we dont know what the real load factor for the NOU-SYD-RUN flight is , we just know what the loads are ex SYD . If the Au
26 Post contains links BA84 : Air Austral on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Austral
27 Post contains links BA84 : Aussie website: http://www.airaustral.com.au/ English website: http://www.air-austral.com/accueil.php?lang=en BA84
28 Post contains links BA84 : Who owns Air Austral: http://www.airaustral.com.au/about_us/shareholders_and_management.php BA84
29 LJ : Just looked on seatcounter for the flight on January 28th from RUN to NOU and the laodfactors look good... Y class doesn´t show much availability on
30 LJ : It´s widely available on the internet and from a price point of view not always more expensive than EK or MH (just saw that SYD-RUN-CDG can be cheap
31 Goldorak : money comes simply from the taxpayers, as the airline belongs almost completely to the local public institutions
32 LACA773 : Is their inflight service product similar to AF's?
33 MadameConcorde : Why are taxpayers to finance an airline which a lot of these tax payers will not use anyway? Another question, this one is about the Air Austral 380
34 Goldorak : That's a very good question. The local politicians will tell you that they absolutely need their own airline to not rely on other French metropolitan
35 DavidByrne : . . . and the problem with that is what? Do we know for a fact that the airline makes a loss? If it doesn't, what's the problem? If it does, surely t
36 Viscount724 : It won't be any worse than all the 10-abreast 777s now in service. In fact, I would guess that seat width and pitch onan 800-seat A380 will be better
37 Post contains images MarcoPoloWorld : Mr. Gérard Ethève does. This rather non-descript-looking gentleman is not to be underestimated, as he started a respectable airline in 1975 that we
38 Goldorak : I have no pb with airlines receiving subsidies or supported by their government, and yes, UU is a very respectable airline and until recently, their
39 B747-4U3 : Perhaps you might like to share the data you have showing that this route is not performing well, and is only running to satisfy someone's ego? (bear
40 Kiwiandrew : While personally I am skeptical about the value of this route I have to agree with posters who say that we have insufficient information in this threa
41 DavidByrne : But do we know that the flights actually lose money? I don't, but maybe someone has a source? Given the time that it takes to establish a new route,
42 LJ : According to kayak.com they´re the cheapest both ex CDG and NOU (at slightly more than EUR 1,400 for a return). Thus it seems as if UU is price lead
43 Aesma : You could add European subsidies to the French ones. But hey, going halfway around the world and still land in France is priceless !
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