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Lufthansa Italia To Drop MXP-FCO  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Availability on all LH-Italia flights between Milan-Malpensa and Rome-Fiumicino from 01MAR10 has been zeroed out.



Milan (MXP) to Rome (FCO)
Monday, March 1

Lufthansa German# 1760
Milan, Italy (MXP) Rome, Italy (FCO)
7:30 am 8:40 am
J0 C0 D0 Z0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 U0 S0 P0 G0 K0 L0 T0 E0
None Airbus A319 No Stops

Lufthansa German# 1764
Milan, Italy (MXP) Rome, Italy (FCO)
4:25 pm 5:35 pm
J0 C0 D0 Z0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 U0 S0 P0 G0 K0 L0 T0 E0
None Airbus A319 No Stops

Lufthansa German# 1766
Milan, Italy (MXP) Rome, Italy (FCO)
8:05 pm 9:15 pm
J0 C0 D0 Z0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 U0 S0 P0 G0 K0 L0 T0 E0
None Airbus A319 No Stops

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

Maybe they finally got their Italian certificate which would cause a move to a new code soon to be publish. If not, this might be the beginning of bye, bye LHI. I hope not!

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Don't think of a bye bye LHI, but if LHI should make inner Italian flights is another question - MXP -FCO is at the borderline to AF/AZ, why not let FR fight them?

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

I'm not surprised, the Milan-Rome route was already very competetive before LH entered the market:

MXP-FCO:
AP/AZ 3x daily
EZY 4x daily
LH 3x daily

LIN-FCO
AZ 37x daily

BGY-CIA
FR 4x daily



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

The typical weekday schedule between MIL and ROM is as follow

MXP-FCO
AZ 4x
U2 5x
LHI 3x

LIN-FCO
AZ 37x

BGY-CIA
FR 3x

BGY-FCO
AZ 3x


User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4107 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 4):
AZ 37x

WTF???? 37 daily frequencies???


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4048 times:



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 5):
37 daily frequencies???

Yes, on Mo-Tu-We-Th-Fr

From LIN

AZ 2009 06.30
AZ 2013 07.00
AZ 2017 07.15
AZ 2015 07.30
AZ 2019 07.40
AZ 2011 07.50
AZ 2021 08.00
AZ 2023 08.15
AZ 2025 08.30
AZ 2111 08.45
AZ 2029 09.00
AZ 2033 09.30
AZ 2039 10.00
AZ 2035 10.30
AZ 2045 11.00
AZ 2037 12.00
AZ 2055 13.00
AZ 2049 14.00
AZ 2069 14.30
AZ 2071 15.00
AZ 2083 15.30
AZ 2059 16.00
AZ 2087 16.20
AZ 2091 16.40
AZ 2061 17.00
AZ 2063 17.30
AZ 2097 18.00
AZ 2099 18.15
AZ 2067 18.30
AZ 2107 18.45
AZ 2109 19.00
AZ 2073 19.20
AZ 2113 19.40
AZ 2075 20.00
AZ 2121 20.30
AZ 2125 21.00
AZ 2077 21.30


User currently offlineFraT From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Don't forget about the train service which is also highly competitive to all airlines.

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 5):

WTF???? 37 daily frequencies???

[see earlier post, LIPZ was faster listing the flight times]

All flown by A320-series aircraft, except an occasional Alitalia Express E70.

----
LIN is heavily slot-constrained and it's extremely difficult for new entrants to fly to/from LIN. Before the AZ/AP-merger, AZ and AP were both offering multple frequencies and there was nice competition here.

It is completely not understanble how any anti-trust agency (Italian or European) could have approved the merger without forcing AZ/AP to give up at least 20 daily LIN slot pairs. (they also have high frequencies on other domestic routes). It still upsets me.

Last December, the high-speed track between Milan and Rome has been finished. The last section to be completed was Bologna-Florence, which was an expensive trajectory as it's almost completely composed of tunnels through the mountains. Milan-Rome now takes 2:45, and it will be interesting to see how this affects air service.

IIRC, LIN-FCO was served over 50x daily before the AZ-AP merger.

[Edited 2010-01-12 05:46:23]

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3186 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Could anyone please describe what "kind" of airport MXP is; what people use it, what market does it attract, etc?

I have flown into MXP a few times, both to visit Milan as well as to connect onto other flights, and both T1 and T2. I used MXP as connections from the Netherlands to LIN were always very expensive and limited (it's a bit better now, with 3x daily on KL/XM/AZ (each 1x daily)), but I always found to MXP to be inconveniently far away from the city. So it was always the best option for Milan anyhow.

But how is it regarded in Italy? Is it a second-choice airport from Milan? Is it the airport of choice from people in Lombardy? Is it used much by people from southern Switzerland? Does it serve as an alternative for TRN, for people in TRN? And of course, for many destinations, it's the sole choice from Milan (like all long-haul flights).

In other words, what kind of people and from where, do you find on flights from MXP?

And, a bit more off-topic, what's the plan for LIN? Currently there is the strange rule that many international destinations can only be served 1x daily by any carrier. (And here is a workaround that many AZ-flights carry the XM-code (Alitalia express), codeshared with AZ, but operating Airbus 319s; quite scandalous actually IMHO). How will this develop? And when LIN-FCO will reduce in the coming years by the advance of the train, will these slots become available for other flights, or will they be lost to never return?)


User currently offlineTrucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

So now I'm curious. Why so many flights with smaller airplanes rather than fewer flights with bigger airplanes? In Japan they use 744s on domestic flights.

User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3496 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
And, a bit more off-topic, what's the plan for LIN? Currently there is the strange rule that many international destinations can only be served 1x daily by any carrier. (And here is a workaround that many AZ-flights carry the XM-code (Alitalia express), codeshared with AZ, but operating Airbus 319s; quite scandalous actually IMHO). How will this develop? And when LIN-FCO will reduce in the coming years by the advance of the train, will these slots become available for other flights, or will they be lost to never return?)

It's Italy, do I need to say any more. Don't try to figure anything out. Just go with the flow.

What rule that international destions can be served 1x daily by any carrier? IB flies 2x MAD, BA 3x LHR, LH 5x LHR

Quoting Trucker (Reply 10):
So now I'm curious. Why so many flights with smaller airplanes rather than fewer flights with bigger airplanes? In Japan they use 744s on domestic flights.

The same reason USA carriers fly LGA-RDU 8x on regionals. Sit on slots to avoid the competition from taking them. Ethically not right, business wise smart move.


User currently offlineWAC From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

MXP is the main international and intercontinental airport of Milan and Northern Italy. From sometime this year the train services will only take 30 minutes from the centre of milan to MXP making it just as easy to access MXP as LIN.
The problem is political as there is no coherent strategy of airport infrastructure at a regional nor national level. Initially LIN was supposed to close but then they decided on a city airport and then just short haul flights. MXP is Milan's airport and that of Northern Italy, and Southern Switzerland, LIN is city airport with access to European cities and BGY is FR hub and one or two other low low cost airline


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
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Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 1):
Maybe they finally got their Italian certificate which would cause a move to a new code soon to be publish. If not, this might be the beginning of bye, bye LHI. I hope not!

Any chance to see these flights from LIN instead from MXP or could be the answer the post of Sflaflight?

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3107 times:



Quoting Trucker (Reply 10):
Why so many flights with smaller airplanes rather than fewer flights with bigger airplanes?

Because with a reduction of frequencies (with regard to LIN-FCO) AZ would lose its slots and would face competition from the new entrants on the same route. LIN is slots-restricted, 18 slots per hour.


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2944 times:



Quoting WAC (Reply 12):
but then they decided on a city airport and then just short haul flights

well, it was more complicated than that. It involved lawsuits from airlines that didn't want to move ops to MXP, like BA. Then consention came between the airlines and the Italian government.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2767 times:
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Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 3):
I'm not surprised, the Milan-Rome route was already very competetive before LH entered the market:

MXP-FCO:
AP/AZ 3x daily
EZY 4x daily
LH 3x daily

LIN-FCO
AZ 37x daily

BGY-CIA
FR 4x daily

It's sounds like the market is way too saturated. It sounds like a smart move on LHI's part.


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