Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Rumor: Delta Considering ABQ-JFK Route (2010/2011)  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

On FT, I was told by a Delta insider that an ABQ-JFK route might finally become a reality this year or next year. He states that with the new LGA hub opening, JFK will mostly be used for longer domestic routes.

I think this would be a nice addition, however, I think in order for such route to succeed, it should be timed right for those connecting to an international route. The problem with CO's former ABQ-EWR route was that it only catered to O&D passengers, as it was an early morning arrival. I don't think O&D alone is sufficient to support an ABQ-JFK route. If DL does begin this route, it would probably be flown by a 738, as the MD-88 would probably struggle on this route, especially in the summer.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7284 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
On FT, I was told by a Delta insider that an ABQ-JFK route might finally become a reality this year or next year. He states that with the new LGA hub opening, JFK will mostly be used for longer domestic routes.

I hope this rumor turns out to be true. It's really stupid that a city like Albuquerque doesn't have any non-stop service to New York.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
If DL does begin this route, it would probably be flown by a 738,

I flew SLC-SNA on a DL 738 back in October, and my back was in pain by the time I got off the aircraft. Those 738s are equipped with the worst airline seats I have ever sat in. The CRJ-200 I flew on from ABQ-SLC had much more supportive seats.



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7256 times:



Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 1):
I flew SLC-SNA on a DL 738 back in October, and my back was in pain by the time I got off the aircraft. Those 738s are equipped with the worst airline seats I have ever sat in. The CRJ-200 I flew on from ABQ-SLC had much more supportive seats.

Actually, I personally like those slimline seats. Last summer I flown on a domestic 763 with them and was surprised with how comfortable those seats were, despite not having winged headrests.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

I don't think this route will ever happen. If it could support the O & D im sure B6 would have started it a long time ago. What does a few passengers a day offer DL that they cannot route through ATL?

User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7146 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Actually, I personally like those slimline seats. Last summer I flown on a domestic 763 with them and was surprised with how comfortable those seats were, despite not having winged headrests.

The 738 I was on had the old seats without PTVs. I flew on N3732J.



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

good route for the 319....

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7034 times:



Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 5):
good route for the 319....

As far as I know, there are no plans to base any Airbus narrowbodies at JFK. A 73G might work, but considering the limited number of 73Gs that DL operates, the 738 is pretty much the only possibility.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2948 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6974 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
As far as I know, there are no plans to base any Airbus narrowbodies at JFK. A 73G might work, but considering the limited number of 73Gs that DL operates, the 738 is pretty much the only possibility.

NW has been flying A319s (and A320s) on JFK-MSP for years, and they still do. I'm not saying this is the plan, but it wouldn't be too hard to rotate them from JFK onto other routes if they wanted to. They are already doing that at LGA, using Airbuses on LGA-Florida/Bermuda/Bahamas routes in between the traditional MSP/DTW flights.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6973 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
As far as I know, there are no plans to base any Airbus narrowbodies at JFK.

A base wouldn't preclude an A319 from doing ABQ-JFK. Delta will most likely still fly Airbus equipment on MSP/DTW-JFK routes, so something like a DTW-JFK-ABQ-JFK-DTW routing, or even a MSP-ABQ-JFK-ABQ-MSP routing could conceivably work.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9082 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6914 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
As far as I know, there are no plans to base any Airbus narrowbodies at JFK. A 73G might work, but considering the limited number of 73Gs that DL operates, the 738 is pretty much the only possibility.

If i had to put money on the next 32S base i would bet NYC.
All 73Gs are Atlanta based now AFAIK



yep.
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8208 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6868 times:

It would not make a lot of money. ABQ has every right to be a big city with high traffic. But it's not.

User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6818 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 10):
It would not make a lot of money. ABQ has every right to be a big city with high traffic. But it's not.

I would agree, TUS and ELP are both bigger than ABQ, and cannot seem to support NewYork service on a consistance basis.

http://www.city-data.com/top1.html


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6776 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The problem with CO's former ABQ-EWR route was that it only catered to O&D passengers,

Same problem with COs EWR-DAB route. You couldn't make any roundtrip connections at all.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

In the case of TUS, the airport is on the southern edge of town and PHX is a relatively short 90-110 minute drive up the road (with multiple flights and generally lower fares). ELP and ABQ are the primary airports for a good 200+ mile radius but there isn't the business travel market in SW TX or New Mexico to really support it (plus both airports have good connections and multiple flights to PHX, DEN, IAH, and DFW where there can be a one stop to virtually any market in the US).

User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6748 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 11):
I would agree, TUS and ELP are both bigger than ABQ, and cannot seem to support NewYork service on a consistance basis

That list also says that ELP is bigger than SEA and DEN. That's the city population only. It's the metro population that counts. Albuquerque has a smaller metro population than Tucson, but is bigger than El Paso. ABQ handles about two million more passengers per year than TUS, and about 3 million more per year than ELP. ABQ also has more average daily passengers to New York than TUS and ELP.



The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

I lived in TUS for 6 years. When most people (non business travel) think airport, they think PHX. Hence TUS's traffic will always be less than ABQ and ELP.

User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

A JFK to ABQ route is 1826 mi long, and it might be better served with an E70, E75 or E90. Couldn't Compass fly this route with one of their E75s?


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6675 times:

Faremeasure.com says:

Quote:
On average, 191 passengers travel the 1,908 miles between El Paso International Airport to LaGuardia Airport each day.



Quote:
On average, 284 passengers travel the 2,136 miles between Tucson International Airport to LaGuardia Airport each day.



Quote:
On average, 487 passengers travel the 1,825 miles between Albuquerque International Sunport to LaGuardia Airport each day.




The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6601 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 11):
I would agree, TUS and ELP are both bigger than ABQ, and cannot seem to support NewYork service on a consistance basis.

ABQ has a per capita income over $6,000 higher than ELP and over $4,000 higher than TUS (at least if you believe wikipedia). Tucson also has PHX just a couple of hours away, with lots of cheap flights going everywhere. This surely creates a drag on flights out of TUS that ABQ does not experience. There's a reason ABQ put 2.2 million more passengers through it's doors in 2008 than TUS and 3 million more than ELP.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

DL advertises on one of my sites and they just created a ton of Albuquerque banner ads that can be used to promote DL and the city.

Doesnt validate the rumor, but of all the cities to have specific banner ads for, I found ABQ to be an interesting choice.


User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6191 times:



Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 11):
I would agree, TUS and ELP are both bigger than ABQ, and cannot seem to support NewYork service on a consistance basis.

When B6 tried JFK-TUS, that route struggled for a while. I remember purchasing a TUS-JFK flight for the Wednesday before Thanksgiving about 3 days in advance for about $109 OW (and $109 for the return flight also on Sunday). It appeared that as this route started to finally pick up more passengers, CO decided to drive B6 off this route. They started non stop TUS-EWR and priced it very competitively. Unsurprisingly, when I flew this route a few times, it was full each time. Eventually, B6 was forced to give this route up and almost immediately after this happened, CO pulled out of this market as well. Sucks for us in TUS but good strategy on CO's part.

Quoting Vctony (Reply 15):
I lived in TUS for 6 years. When most people (non business travel) think airport, they think PHX. Hence TUS's traffic will always be less than ABQ and ELP.

Yes and no. TUS actually has high business travel demand for a city its size, due to some companies that are based there. I don't know the numbers specifically, but one thing I can tell you is that AA has a disproportionately high amount of elite frequent flyers based in TUS and also commands premiums on service to certain cities as well as F fares. You will see many paid F tickets on their flights to DFW and ORD compared to the average spoke. That's why AA is able to support a lot of mainline flights here (again, for a city its size). It has 2 dailies to ORD and 7 dailies to DFW, all on S80s. Compare that to other hub and spoke airlines: CO flies only to IAH around 5 times a day and all flights except one are RJs. US flies only to PHX around 10 times a day, all on RJs. DL flies twice daily to ATL on mainline and 3 times daily to SLC to small RJs. United flies a few times a day to LAX and DEN, and once to SFO, all on RJs except for one DEN flight. Then, of course, there's WN.


User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5460 times:

I have long felt that if it was done right, a NYC-ABQ flight could do well. My concern now is that if DL started JFK-ABQ that CO might restart EWR-ABQ . As a result DL and CO would try to undercut each other in pricing and both could end up losing money and both would, in time, drop the route much

ABQ has one of the highest ratios, per capita, of PhDs in the country.There is lots and lots of highly educated business travel out of ABQ from the various high tech companies in and around ABQ.

In addition, the movie industry is getting larger and larger and still larger in NM. There are now studios there that operate close to 24/7. Just look at the credits of many current movies and you will see that it was filmed in NM.

There are also a lot of Wall St. types in Santa Fe that travel to, and from, NYC.

So overall there is definetly the potential for a NYC-ABQ flight to do quite well. It is just a matter of marketing with the right times, aircraft etc. etc. etc.


User currently offlineMtaabq From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

I've lived in ABQ since 1974 and have seen ABQ-NYC service come and go or promised and never materialized. TW boasted ABQ-JFK service back in the late 70's/early 80's (IIRC) but my friends who worked there at the time told me the loads were never that good. More recently CO had ABQ-EWR but it was Saturday-only service and, from what I understand, it never really took off. The old PA (post-National merger) was supposed to offer ABQ-JFK service, timed for European connections, but the flight never started. I have always been amazed at the number of passengers who travel daily between ABQ and NYC and at the same time I've always been baffled at why non-stop service from the Duke City to the Big Apple can't seem to find the support it needs to survive. UA (via UAX) very quietly began ABQ-IAD a year or two ago and by all accounts that flight (once daily) is performing well, although the passengers I know feel that flight is entirely too long on an RJ (CRJ-700 or -900 probably). My point about ABQ-IAD is that there IS a market for non-stop service to the Northeast, Eastern Seaboard and Mid-Atlantic States (WN does ABQ-BWI non-stop) but when it comes to NYC it hasn't, historically, found the support. DL might make it work; they've really been challenging AA for the #2 spot at ABQ (WN is #1) and entry into a non-stop NYC market (obviously JFK) might be a good move for them. Although, IMHO, I would rather see B6.

User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4903 times:

UA (via UAX) very quietly began ABQ-IAD a year or two ago and by all accounts that flight (once daily) is performing well, although the passengers I know feel that flight is entirely too long on an RJ (CRJ-700 or -900 probably)[/quote]

Unless something has changed, quite, quite recently,IAD-ABQ has never been operated by UAX. It has always been a UA Airbus 319, sometimes, a A-320.

I have taken that flight a number of times and it amazes me the number of connecting intl pax at IAD for that flight, in particular to, and from VIE and FRA.

Thats all the more reasons I think that, if done right, a NYC-ABQ flight can work.

In addition, for the last couple of years, and 2010 included, WN has had two BWI-ABQ flights for the summer. So the demand from the NE is clearly there.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4822 times:



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 20):
but one thing I can tell you is that AA has a disproportionately high amount of elite frequent flyers based in TUS and also commands premiums on service to certain cities as well as F fares. You will see many paid F tickets on their flights to DFW and ORD compared to the average spoke. That's why AA is able to support a lot of mainline flights here

AA in Tucson is an interesting example... however AA has a bit of a historic legacy in Tucson as well. They've been there pretty much since day one and are the only surviving national carrier from pre-deregulation era. IIRC TWA was the other one, with the rest of the carriers serving TUS being regional airlines like the old Frontier and Western. Throw that in with AA's long term investment in TUS, like the res center (is it still there) and a fairly large base of loyal fliers it isn't too surprising. Southwest has never made too much at Tucson, being a relatively small station for a city of its size.


I think DL could make a go of ABQ-JFK. If UA can make ABQ-IAD work I don't see why JFK couldn't be feasible.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
25 SANFan : The numbers are there to support O&D traffic between NYC and ABQ, no question; to expand a bit on the figures presented by ABQ747 in reply #17, the la
26 AF022 : I think there are opportunities out there for DL to explore. And it is easier for DL to start infrequent service to places like ABQ because they alrea
27 N537FX : I hope the route works out, it would be an interesting link. On a side note, I always thought that when tourists fly into ABQ, they make the trek nort
28 DeltAirlines : There are many cases where the state capital is not the primary city in the state - the Albuquerque MSA is roughly five times the size of Sante Fe. O
29 Airport : Out of curiousity, are those figures one-way or roundtrip?
30 DeltAirlines : Round trip, so it counts all passengers (for example) going ABQ-NYC and NYC-ABQ that day. Divide the number by 2 to get approximate one-way numbers.
31 Chrisair : AA has the Raytheon contract. It's a pretty big facility here and you see a lot of the higher level execs going back east to DC or Raytheon's HQs up
32 N9801f : You're right on track to consider metro population (Ridgid727, ABQ747), total enplanements, and O-D traffic (SanFan). But don't forget fare. There are
33 Alias1024 : It makes sense to have the major airport be in the largest city and commercial hub for the state. Besides, it's only a one hour drive to Santa Fe. AB
34 Mtaabq : I stand corrected. I seem to recall when the service was first introduced it was an RJ but I'll defer to a customer who has actually been on the flig
35 1337Delta764 : The code for Santa Fe is SAF, not SFE. And actually, those flights are doing reasonably well. In fact, AA/AE is adding a third SAF-DFW flight in Febr
36 Mtaabq : ~sign~ Memories, like the corners of my mind. The "C" concourse. What a cool place. Crowded, yes, but cool. The TW Ambassador Club was there and the
37 Rangercarp : When I read this, I don't think N537FX is saying "Santa Fe is the capital so it should have more air service." It sounds to me more like "all the tou
38 Mtaabq : I stand corrected. In my business we abbreviate Santa Fe as "SFE" but you are correct in that the airport code is "SAF" and the error in referring to
39 1337Delta764 : I'd say the most likely to occur are either Delta/SkyWest to SLC, or United Express to DEN.
40 Tommy767 : I see no reason why DL couldn't make ABQ-JFK work with a 738. DL in the past has done ABQ-ATL/CVG with the 757... Would in interesting if DL could get
41 Rangercarp : There's a NEW Mexico? What was wrong with the old one?
42 Mtaabq : I could see where my remarks might indicate that, and such was not my intent. Yes, a lot of people in Northern NM and Southern Colorado would like to
43 Mtaabq : UAX has tried DEN-SAF in the past and every time it's been a failure. However, maybe 2010 is the year they make a go of it. In the past the service h
44 Mtaabq : That gave me my one true laugh of the day! Thanks! And here's one for the trivia folks -- the original name for New Mexico that was being floated for
45 1337Delta764 : The flights were flown by Great Lakes. The reason why those past SAF-DEN flights have been a failure is because Great Lakes was charging ridiculously
46 Byrdluvs747 : Just go to Juarez and you'll see.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta To Start JFK-SCL (Rumor)? posted Sun May 13 2007 16:00:10 by Eastern023
A380 Service To JFK During 2010 posted Thu Nov 12 2009 00:16:29 by Eightball
Delta To Begin Luanda In 2010? posted Sun Nov 8 2009 14:18:28 by MHTripple7
Delta's A330-300 JFK Question posted Wed Aug 26 2009 13:46:11 by Blueman87
Rumor: Delta To Cancel Remaining 777 Orders? posted Fri Aug 21 2009 19:06:31 by Mech24
Delta 166 ATL-JFK Diverted posted Wed Aug 12 2009 16:40:00 by AndyGarrett
TAM To Change Aircraft In GIG-JFK Route posted Tue Jul 7 2009 12:01:09 by AF086
Question - Delta To End JFK - BOG? posted Tue May 19 2009 07:41:36 by ClipperClub
Delta Abandons BWI-BOS Route posted Tue May 12 2009 09:17:38 by Jeffrey1970
Help With Delta 72 SFO - JFK On Feb 05 posted Wed Feb 4 2009 18:47:42 by Vhelou