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Stranded 777 Now Impounded  
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 25769 times:
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Sadly it appears that 777-236 (27108/17) has now (after nearing flightworthy status) been impounded for non-payment of $10 million US. It had been scheduled to go to Force Aerienne Gabonaise but now appears to have no immediate future. Any updates on this a/c would be appreciated. With 840 777's delivered, only 7 are not actively flying--one written off at LHR, one sadly scrapped beofre its time in Arkansas and 5 in storage-----that represents high demand for this product and hopefully this bird will find another home.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 24825 times:

I think it will. Just goes to show though, that no matter what the AC type, any idiot can default on it, or maintain it improperly enough to revoke its airworthiness, and have something like this happen.


Reminds me of a cousin I have who once totaled out an '05 Accord. By never ever changing her oil! (BTW, according to that incident, north american market 4cyl Accords can run up to 33,000mi without an oil change, lol)


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1459 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 24695 times:

This comes up now and then, but this aircraft is part of a very small batch (5 total) of non-ER 777-236s built for BA with GE90-76B engines. One of the main reasons (s/n 27019/19) was scrapped is because of this and since BA still operates the remaining 3, its a orphan. To be frank, this aircraft has considerably less value than any another 777 and mostly why its in this state as a VIP conversion. The fact that its been impounded for non-payment just makes it even worse.

[Edited 2010-01-12 19:30:20]


35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 22732 times:

A major reason why this aircraft has not been accepted by the Gabon government is that the president who ordered it died shortly afterwards and the new president rightfully saw this 777 as a foolish idea and money-waster for his small country. Its as if the Danish Queen would have bought an A380!

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
and 5 in storage

That will change this year. Egyptair is retiring their 772s, AI is returning the older ERs to the lessor, and surely their will be others.


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 22423 times:

So who were the users after Varig? A.net database only shows it in all white in 2007 at SBD.

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 22193 times:

777 ln.17 was operated by BA from 1995 to 2002, then it was painted in a crude Khalifa/Air Algerie scheme. I remember it was parked in a remote spot at FRA for some weeks in 2003 as it was not taken up. Afterwards it was leased to Varig from 2004 to 2006 by. Since then it was jobless, "aquired" (dont know if leased or bought) by Gabon in 2007 but never operated.

This aircraft has only seen 8 1/2 years of service. That its an "A" model makes it quite undesirable, but it would make a fine government plane for whoever needs it. No one comes to my mind though.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21548 times:
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Who was this 772 flying with when it was impounded? I think I'm missing something here.

User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21512 times:



Quoting Wn700driver (Reply 1):
Reminds me of a cousin I have who once totaled out an '05 Accord. By never ever changing her oil! (BTW, according to that incident, north american market 4cyl Accords can run up to 33,000mi without an oil change, lol)

What a shame, considering there are older Accords out there (1990-1993) hitting 300,000+ miles on original engine and tranny. I'm working mine up there, has 274,000km.

Quoting NA (Reply 3):
Egyptair is retiring their 772s,

I wonder what the long-haul plan for Egyptair is, because their A342s are slated to retire in a few as well.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8501 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21254 times:
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Quoting Irobertson (Reply 7):
I wonder what the long-haul plan for Egyptair is, because their A342s are slated to retire in a few as well.

Egyptair is getting new 777-300ER, 6 Ithink.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20987 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
Egyptair is getting new 777-300ER, 6 Ithink.

Yep, they are exchanging 77Es with 77Ws.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 6):
Who was this 772 flying with when it was impounded? I think I'm missing something here.

I guess this is for the VIP-conversion bills not paid by Gabon.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20663 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 3):
A major reason why this aircraft has not been accepted by the Gabon government is that the president who ordered it died shortly afterwards

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark  The same President, Omar Bongo, who had probably billions in real estate, investments, and cash in the European Continent. But his son is trying to hold onto power to the resource rich nation, and probably cannot be worried about payments to whomever on a new VIP 777.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineBeechnut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 731 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 19571 times:



Quoting Irobertson (Reply 7):
What a shame, considering there are older Accords out there (1990-1993) hitting 300,000+ miles on original engine and tranny. I'm working mine up there, has 274,000km.

Yeah, we have a first generation Honda Odyssey (1998), same 4-cyl engine and tranny as an Accord of the same vintage. It's up to 225,000 km and still chugging along, doesn't use a drop of oil. Rust is starting to get at it though. It's now our 3d vehicle, our "teach-teens-to-drive-lumberyard-garden-center" car.

Back to planes, the -236 implies an ex-BA machine. I handn't realized that BA have already retired some 777s? I suppose this is an early A model?

Beech


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15357 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 3):
That will change this year. Egyptair is retiring their 772s, AI is returning the older ERs to the lessor, and surely their will be others.

I would imagine any lessor would have no problem finding someone to sign up for an ER, even an older copy. There is still plenty of demand for ER capabilities and plenty of airlines looking for some uplift here and there. The A models probably don't have much life left in them though.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13594 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 5):
but it would make a fine government plane for whoever needs it. No one comes to my mind though.

How about for the Israeli Air Force (Prime Minister transport) to replace the 707 if they haven't already.



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13337 times:



Quoting Beechnut (Reply 11):

Back to planes, the -236 implies an ex-BA machine. I handn't realized that BA have already retired some 777s? I suppose this is an early A model?

Yes indeed. BA retired 2 of their 5 777-236 A model aircraft in 2002. The reason was the downturn in the aviation market at that time. The A-models 777s in BA's fleet have larger F cabins than the others and are primarily used to Middle Eastern destinations as well as to the East Coast of the USA. The decline of Middle Eastern routes in particular plus their withdrawal from the Saudi market around the same time led to those two planes being retired and ultimately going on to somewhat unhappy lives. This plane's sister ship faced the chop a few years ago.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12831 times:



Quoting Lemurs (Reply 12):
I would imagine any lessor would have no problem finding someone to sign up for an ER, even an older copy. There is still plenty of demand for ER capabilities and plenty of airlines looking for some uplift here and there.

One should think so. But there have been some ERs standing around for 12 months or more before being picked up. I´ve not heard anything about Egyptair´s 772ERs having raised much interest. Three of SQs older 772ERs though have been placed with Biman quite quickly.

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 12):
The A models probably don't have much life left in them though.

Seems even airlines who want 772s for regional routes prefer the ER over the A which would be sufficient enough. CX wanted to sell their 772As in 2008 already but there was zero interest so far so they still have them.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6939 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9988 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 15):
I´ve not heard anything about Egyptair´s 772ERs having raised much interest.

Have they already published a retirement schedule? It's very likely these planes will find a new home soon once they leave the fleet. However, I'm not very optimistic about the A342s.

Quoting NA (Reply 15):
CX wanted to sell their 772As in 2008 already but there was zero interest so far so they still have them.

And these planes are still in service, in contast to certain stored A340s.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9988 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 15):
One should think so. But there have been some ERs standing around for 12 months or more before being picked up. I´ve not heard anything about Egyptair´s 772ERs having raised much interest. Three of SQs older 772ERs though have been placed with Biman quite quickly.

Powerplant differences perhaps? Depending on the roles the operator wants them for, I could see them rejecting a GE (for shorter turns) or RR (for longer flying) for example...or commonality with existing fleet, etc...



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9650 times:



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
And these planes are still in service

As I said, as nobody wants them CX keeps them against their plans published in 2008. Ln.1 was planned to become a museum piece in Seattle, but I guess Boeing has more pressing issues these days.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Have they already published a retirement schedule?

First one to be retired this March if I remember right. I´m sure they´ll find a buyer in the end, question is when and at what price. I doubt ex-Egyptair planes are the most sought after. As SQ has started retiring its 772ERs it seems these find a taker much quicker.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
I'm not very optimistic about the A342s.

I agree, A342s are like the 772 "A"s not in hot demand anymore, actually both types have never been popular with airlines.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9446 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 5):
No one comes to my mind though.

Alex Salmond and the Scottish government could use it  Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOhthedrama747 From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9091 times:



Quoting GKirk (Reply 19):

Don't give the git any ideas.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6939 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7729 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 18):
As I said, as nobody wants them CX keeps them against their plans published in 2008.

CX still wants them, otherwise they would be stored next to several A343s in the desert.

Quoting NA (Reply 18):
I agree, A342s are like the 772 "A"s not in hot demand anymore, actually both types have never been popular with airlines.

28 A342s vs 88 772s - quite a difference. And while there's no niche left for the A342, the 772s are still heavily used in certain markets due to certain advantages over other 777s (e.g. weight, engines).


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7441 times:



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 21):
the 772s are still heavily used in certain markets due to certain advantages over other 777s (e.g. weight, engines).

Question: AC is using some B77W & B77L on YYZ & YUL to Europe flights, which dont require the range that these aircraft are capable of. Why did AC never operate the B772ER or B773, and if they did, would those planes be more cost effective on A market flights to Europe?

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7207 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 22):
Question: AC is using some B77W & B77L on YYZ & YUL to Europe flights, which dont require the range that these aircraft are capable of. Why did AC never operate the B772ER or B773, and if they did, would those planes be more cost effective on A market flights to Europe?

AC had a mostly Airbus long-haul fleet in the 90s and early 2000s. As such they stuck with their A340-300s and A330-300s at that time. I do not recall all the reasons for the switch to Boeing in the middle of the last decade (with the notable exception of the A330s) but I do recall unhappiness with the A340-500s which they bought. When they did turn to Boeing the enhanced models were available - especially the 77L which directly replaced the A345.

While the 77W and 77L are not range challenged flying from Canada to Europe, one should remember that greater maximum range also translates to greater payload over a shorter range. Thus, the 777-200LR can take a greater MTOW between LHR and YYZ than a 777-200ER and as such potentially more cargo per flight for a route that is cargo-heavy. The greater range also means more flexibility in dealing with adverse wind contitions and the like which can increase fuel consumption and again limit payload on earlier models.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5839 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7165 times:

It really does seem like these two frames are cursed. I hope some other VIP operator takes this one up... unless BA wants it back, that seems like the only viable option.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 23):
777-200LR can take a greater MTOW between LHR and YYZ than a 777-200ER and as such potentially more cargo per flight for a route that is cargo-heavy.

Either the ER or the LR can carry maximum structural payload on any TATL flight from Canada.

AC has their LRs for two reasons: 1) commonality with the 773ERs, whose payload range is needed on TATL, and 2) to fly YYZ-HKG.

The LR is only marginally heavier than the ER and has better cruise fuel consumption, so there is no reason for them not to fly it.

[Edited 2010-01-15 15:22:09]

25 NA : Talking wont make a success out of the mediocre sales of the non-ER 777s. Also note the 777As are about 3-5 years younger than the A342s at average.
26 CX Flyboy : It is true that CX tried to sell them or at least sign a wet-lease deal.Several airlines were spoken to including Continental, Ethiopian and Biman bu
27 PlaneHunter : I was simply showing that both types' situations are not exactly the same. The 772s are still heavily used in domestic markets, on regional and even
28 Rampguy : Where in Arkansas is this a/c located?
29 AquariusHKG : I'll say the reason CX is still using theirs, is that although it's not as good as the A330 or 77E for the mission, it's still a fine airplane for the
30 Post contains links and images Bennett123 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Gary Chambers If you look on the far left....
31 Revelation : Indeed, but the 772A was a stepping-stone to the 772ER, not a last gasp effort like the 764 or A346.
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