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Comair Pilots: We'll Get Jobs  
User currently offlineDave in Berlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

The story below is from the AP. Apparently the pilots weren't crazy about the work rules in the contract and feel they'll get jobs elsewhere easily. While that's true, they'll be at the bottom of someone else's seniority list and, frankly, as someone running an airline, I'd think long and hard about hiring them before they bring their troubles to my shop.

Comair Pilots: Job Prospects Good

.c The Associated Press

COVINGTON, Ky. (May 13) - Striking Comair pilots say the airline industry's demand for pilots could make it easy for them to leave their jobs and work for competitors.

Paul Lackie, a spokesman for the Comair pilots' union, said as many pilots - 1,350 - are hired each month by the industry as work for Comair.

''The current (monthly hiring) rate is almost equal to the entire Comair pilot group,'' Lackie said.

In two days of telephone voting, Comair pilots rejected a proposal that would have ended their walkout, which began March 26. The vote was 1,042 to 99, the union said Saturday.

The union said compensation and retirement benefits were considerations in the lopsided vote, but the biggest problem was in work rules. It said the mediated settlement proposal would have added 45 minutes to pilots' 14-hour days.

''That was a slap in the face to the pilots,'' said union chairman J.C. Lawson, who announced the vote.

The company had said the pilots' decision was critical for the future of Comair, a Delta subsidiary and the nation's second-largest regional airline.

Comair has canceled all flights through June 10 and, as it earlier said it would, laid off 2,000 of its 4,000 nonstriking employees on Sunday. Delta also said it has received offers for 60 of Comair's aircraft.

''They are making a statement about the future direction of Comair and their own careers,'' Frederick W. Reid, Delta's president and chief operating officer, said as the pilots began voting Thursday.

The National Mediation Board crafted the proposed settlement after eight days of negotiations between Comair and the pilots in Washington didn't produce an agreement.

No new talks are scheduled, and the mediation board has said it will be at least 30 days before new talks can be held.

Comair, based at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, carried about 25,000 passengers a day on flights to 95 cities in the United States, Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas. The strike is the first since Comair's 1977 founding.

Dave in Berlin

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineLGB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

If it's that easy for them to find other jobs where they are happy with their contracts one might wonder why they didn't switch jobs before rather than going on strike.


User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Because some people actually believe in trying to change things for the better.

They have much invested in company seniority. Why should they leave a succesful airline they contributed their efforts towards without a fight for what they believe is theirs.


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

It's my utmost hope that airline managment around the world begin their own "Cancer list" of striking Comair pilots, just as ALPA has it's "Scab list" for Continental pilots. Then, the Comair pilots can modify their claim to "We'll get jobs, just not FLYING jobs".

Jetpilot - If "changing things for the better" means putting your non pilot coworkers who didn't have the "luxury" of a strike fund, out of a job, and shutting down an airline, then pilots have no larger brains than lemmings - who follow one another blindly off the edge of a cliff. It's a rather scary thought to think I had been entrusting my life to someone with such little capablility to think.

User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

They're "other" pilot job is at the bottom of a regional sceniority list, where they'll be making $16 an hour again.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, pilots.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

There you go JETPILOT: you wanted to see the reson why they rejected the contract-and the biggest reason? 45 minutes added to the workday! Wow! What a HUGE reason for shutting down a company and putting thousands out of a job!! I think that's tantamount to slavery, yesiree. So much for your honorable colleagues at Comair.

And I've noticed something from you JETPILOT-not ONCE have you shown the slightest sympathy for the people that the pilots put out of work, who did not have a strike fund to keep even a little income coming in. You keep crying about these poor pilots. Well, if they're response to all this is "big deal, we'll get jobs", then I have even less respect for them than when all this started. They're just like you are-only out for themselves, and not worried one damned bit about the coworkers they screwed over.

User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

RE: the pilots work day...

The Offer, which represents ALPA's last table position, actually proposes a decrease in the
maximum scheduled and actual duty day.

Current Contract (Section 12.D):

Maximum Scheduled Duty Day: 14 hours
Maximum Actual Duty Day (due to irregular operations): FAR's (16 hours)

The Offer (Section 12.D.1 and 12.D.2):

Maximum Scheduled Duty Day: Ranges from 11 hours and 15 minutes to 13 hours and 30
Maximum Actual Duty Day: Ranges from 12 hours and 30 minutes to 14 hours and 45

These changes result in a reduction to the scheduled duty period ranging from 30 minutes to 2
hours and 45 minutes and a reduction to the actual duty period due to irregular operations ranging
from 1 hour and 15 minutes to 3 hours and 30 minutes. Incidentally, these maximum scheduled
and actual duty periods proposed in the Offer are the shortest duty periods among airlines
operating similar equipment to Comair.

By the way... the entire contract is available for download at http://www.comair.com

User currently offlineCAETravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Are they trying to bluff management? Thinking that they won't be out on their butts? Flipping burgers? Hauling fruit in South America? They will find some sort of job I am sure, but it will not be as good as what they were offered, I can almost guarantee that. Out of the lot, I am sure there will be exceptions, but not for most of them. I just hope that Delta puts the Comair non striking workers back to work under the ASA umbrella. The routes have to be flown, its just a matter of the paint jobs and the uniforms of the people and planes handling it.

A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Less cryin', more flyin'.

45 minutes more time added to the work day under the new contract? Big f'ing deal.

The company offers a raise, and expects greater worker productivity in return.

Big f'ing deal.

It's just business.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4558 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2511 times:

Are the Comair pilots wise to be so confident that they'll all find equal-or-more-lucrative jobs? How many airlines in the US will be eager to hire a pilot who just participated in the rubbing-out of his last company because the pay raise was 40 percent instead of 85 percent?

Maybe the demand will overcome this natural and reasonable fear. But it may not.


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Because a job is a job. We all put effort into our jobs. If you want part of the company, buy some stock.

The fact is, walking out on your job is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen. If I was ComAIR, I would honor my right to hire new pilots to replace the ones on strike (which is totally legal). And then, they do not have to hire the striking pilots back. Totally legal. One of the articles stated that as many piltos were hired each month as work for ComAir.... sounds like a good deal to me.

Fact of the matter is, if you care that little about the compan yyou work for as to just walk out and let them lay off half their staff, then their efforts have hurt the company more than helped it.

And this 45 minutes extra a day of work is crap. Its not like pilot's are flying for 14 hours a day. I have plenty of airline pilot friends, and some are at Delta, and they all look down on these guys.

User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

My favorite part is the figure hired per month. I wouldn't be surprised if that is around the world, and not just in the US/Canada. Unless we have many bilingual pilots, that amount that can be hired in a month goes down to 600 or so. Plus the fact that other companies are probably going to be laying off workers soon too(Midex, for example), this makes that number even smaller.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

And one of those airlines that was hurting for pilots was.......Comair! They have been recruiting hard and heavy for students for their flight academy, but with the strike, they're having to let those students take jobs at other airlines instead of @ OH. Sounds great to me, the starting pay for a 1st Officer at Comair is less than what a ramper makes, so they'll go to another airline where the starting pay is more than likely better than at Comair.

User currently offlineTWAneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

This is really upsetting, these Comair pilots give pilots a bad name. This is really upsetting.

User currently offlineMaxPowers From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2389 times:

Damn comair pilots, gready bastards. They are even lucky they have a job. Also, if they are in the regionals, then what else should they expect? not some 125k a year job. Pilots go and be pilots becasue they want to be a pilot. Dont yell about the fact about sacraficeing your money and friends, freetime, fun stuff,and all that other garbage, becasue you knew what was going to happen when you went into even thinking about being a pilot. It's not like other people are cutting back, oh no they aren't, they are rich, everyone is rich, except for the striking pilots. God, just premote the non striking workers to delta's main fleet, then fire all the striking people, put the planes in delta's colors, give the non stikers a raise, and for the strikers... pink slip. 14 hour days are not long, expecialy when your crusing in the air alot more then taking off and landing. For all those cool pilots who work hard, let kids go to the cockpit inflight, and help the company deserve to earn 150k a year, but the mean ones, hope you never get a damn job in your life.

User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2387 times:

As a wise man once said, actually it was my dad when I was job-hunting in the aviation industry in 1984, "Airlines will come, and airlines will go, but they will always need a place to take off and land!!!".

Hence, I work for an airport operator, safe and secure employment (the pay sucks), great benefits, and I don't have to worry about strikes, picketing, etc. Whenever I see picketers around here, I just laugh...

...which brings up another point, airline employees putting a gun to management. Visualize this, now, when pulling the trigger, three fingers are pointed back at the triggerman.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

P.S. Anybody else see this coming when the UA pilots signed their contract?!

"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (14 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2373 times:

Sure did, Tom. When UAL signed their contract, all pilots at the rest of the majors felt inadequate, and now demand "industry leading" or UAL +1 contracts. Anything to say "mines bigger".

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

They're cutting their hands off to spite thier face.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Just a little blip...wonder from whom DL has received those offers for for the CRJ's...maybe Skywest?!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

it was a telephone vote no wonder all those no votes

User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

I don't think that Delta is going to sell all of the RJ's. I imagine that they will transfer as many as possible to ASA.

User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

My thoughts on the matter, should I actually express them in this forum, would no doubt get me banned.

User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

My wish in all this is that the airline will be dismantled and it's assets sold.

Then next year when the ASA contract comes up for renewal we can start this all over again.

If it's not solved now we will face it again in the future.

Delta's handling of this matter will come back to haunt them.


User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

I don't think I would care if I were the only pilot NOT striking for Comair. In fact, I would probably be flying a lone CRJ out of CVG for the sake of protest alone, even if I got paid the lowest of all Comair pilots.

If you love flying so f---ing much, why do you hate to fly for the salaries and benifits packages that many people would kill for?

Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

If I were in the position to hire pilots for another airline and saw "Comair" on a resume.....well, that resume would hit the round file. Troublemakers. As long as there are kids out there who want to fly, there will be a pool of pilots willing to take those jobs.

25 JETPILOT : Bicoastal: "Troublemakers. As long as there are kids out there who want to fly, there will be a pool of pilots willing to take those jobs". Reply: Tha
26 Penguinflies : my 2 cents. I have to agree that an addition of 45 minutes is not that big of deal...so what else is there? Well what about medical and retirement ben
27 Ian : Unlike the most of you I really believe that the pilots are not in the wrong. The union is set up to protect the rights of employees against the "gree
28 Alpha 1 : Yeah, JETPILOT, there won't be any scabs at Comair, because the all-knowing union, in it's god-like wisdom will have run the airline out of business,
29 DCA-ROCguy : Ian: "Everything is relative. This is America and everybody has the right to fight for what they think is right, even if in your eyes it might not be.
30 Woxof : To all Comair pilots: ME, ME, ME! It's all about ME. The Gall Comair pilots have makes me want to vomit. Greedy bastards. What about the many non-stri
31 Ian : DCA...Off topic Actually you seem to be twisting this one around. As far as my dear friend Timmy is concerned what goes on in his head is his business
32 Kangar : The definition of a scab is a funny thing indeed, in most cases it's the character assasination of some poor soul who couldn't afford to live by the i
33 Papatango : jet pilot the more you post the bigger idiot you become
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