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OGG Takeoffs  
User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

At the Kahului, Maui international airport (PHOG, OGG) the runway is less than 7,000 feet long. Hawaiian, ATA, United, Canada 3000, and a few others operate daily DC-10-30s, L1011's, 777's(earlier), and A330's to the west coast. I can understand how these planes would be fine taking off on this runway because they aren't loaded up with fuel which means the required runway length is less (I think). However TWA and American operate daily 767-300's to STL and DFW respectively. These planes are loaded up with fuel and often operate with max pax capacity. I have watched these planes take off from this runway and they use up a good portion of the 6995 ft. Is it safe for these planes to take off with such little room to spare? Do these planes use higher flap settings in order to get airborne faster? Why does the FAA allow these airlines to operate these flights? I've been on the TWA flight several times and was surprised when they didn't even lock the brakes and apply power but took off normally. An AA pilot who flew the 0GG-DFW route told me he held his breath during every take off roll at OGG. I'd like to hear what you guys think of this and if anybody knows anymore about this topic. Thanks a lot.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZRB2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 999 times:

Hmmm, interesting. Maybe they usually have a good stiff headwind and apply max. flaps. I'm flying there in 10 days....looking forward to it!

User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 965 times:

Where you flying from and which airline are you flying on? Just curious. Headwinds often do help but there are days when the winds aren't very strong. I'm curious to know if they increase the flap settings on these flights.

User currently offlineFlygga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 966 times:

Last time I flew out of OGG to SFO was on a UAL DC-10-30. We were fully loaded and it was a very hot day with calm winds. The pilot made a PA announcement before departure explaining that we were heavy and that he would be bringing the engines up to full thrust before releasing the brakes. When it was time to go, the pilot stood on the brakes, throttled up the engines to full power and then let loose! We used just about every inch of that runway.

Richard Silagi




User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 954 times:

I rest my case. This can't be safe.

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 937 times:

if it wasn´t safe, it wouldn´t be allowed...


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 928 times:

If the operations manual did not show that it was safe after the pilot and operations plugged in Temperature, Weight, Runway length, Winds, Barometric pressure etc,
the pilot would not attempt the takeoff. Did you know that every flight has to approved by a dispatcher for the airline as well as the pilot.

If either of them think it would not be safe, the takeoff would not be approved


User currently offlineZRB2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 926 times:

I'm flying United, arriving OGG from SFO on a 757 and departing OGG to LAX on a 767, and then a 777 back to IAD. Should be great. Only an airplane freak would enjoy the long flights (as well as the sun & fun of Maui).

If they are using heavy equipment and full loads from OGG, any chance of runway expansion?


User currently offlineFlygga From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 928 times:

It is not that our take off was not safe, it was just that the pilot had to use the plane's maximum performance to make it safe, something that does not always have to be used.

Richard Silagi



User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 913 times:

OGG is able to handle these aircraft. Is it safe? yes

Sure they use of most of the runway, but after a certain speed, the plane has no choice but to go up, and it is not like there is a mountain directly in the flight path. The pilots are just more aware of the speeds and the lenght they have left. But a fully loaded 767-300 is able to take-off and fly non-stop to st. louis.

The flights that OGG cannot support yet are non-stop flights to asia. Hawaiian had rights to use DC-10s on OGG-Narita and were awaiting runway expansion.


User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 892 times:

They were considering a runway expansion project for a while but eventually it was voted down because the Maui natives thought that a longer runway would just mean more tourists. I know that taking off from Maui in a loaded 767 is safe but I was just disturbed a little by what that AA pilot said to me back in January about holding his breath on the takeoff role. I guess if they lost an engine on takeoff it would be tough to stop in time if the plane was still on the ground or tough to climb with only one engine and the high flaps setting required for the takeoff-- that is a higher flaps setting mean a slower rotation speed and less climb performance--not a good time to loose an engine.

User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 870 times:

OGG and LIH runway expansion plans were also shelved because newer airplanes like 767 and 777 don't seem to need the longer runways that the DC-10 and 747 do.

David / SAN


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 845 times:

I'll be in OGG this summer (July).....
It's so far from my home ......

Michael @ TLV  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineJet-A gasguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 266 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 833 times:

All aircraft taking off from OGG must be able to abort the landing and stop if necessary. That critical moment is V1(takeoff decision), when the pilot must decide at that point to either abort takeoff or continue. Sure it'd be a hell of a whiplash stop for the passengers, but stop they would. If they go past V1, they have no choice but to fly the plane. I've seen these aborted takeoffs with a DC-10, 757 and 767's a few times and it's definitely exciting to watch! But the plane never goes off the runway.(at least not yet!) What the passenger has to realize is that EVERTHING is considered by Dispatch, the Load Planner and finally the Pilots before releasing the aircraft. If an aircraft is too heavy for the conditions they will remove cargo or passengers until it is safe. By the way, there is about 1000 feet of grassy overun at the end of the runway, if it makes you feel a little better. Also, only sometimes will pilots sit at the end of the runway, apply max power , then let go of the brakes. Usually when they have a max load on a really hot day. But, 99% of the time, it is not done. However, I do sometimes see aircraft applying full power as they start turning onto the Runway from the taxiway. That is more common. And lastly to 762er, your comment about the Maui natives thinking it would just mean more tourists.....is just not true. Being a "Maui native", I know that it was a hotly contested issue. A lot of people were for the expansion, but unfortuneatly, it was the "special interest" groups which ultimitely killed the expansion. I always thought it interesting as to how a small special interest group (supposedly representing the people) with the help of a powerful attorney could get this project killed. Well, we all know how the legal system can be abused. By the way, if you're interested, TWA's 767 - Maui to St. Louis flight takes an average of 95,000 to 100,000 lbs of fuel.

Aloha!
 Big thumbs up



Find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life.
User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 826 times:

Jet-A-gasguy: I apologize for blaming the Maui natives. I heard that from a friend of mine who lives in Kihei, not exactly a reliable source. My mistake. Thanks for all that info on takeoffs at OGG. I remeber reading your story about the 767 landing at a OGG a few weeks ago, that's amazing. Do you have any more interesting facts or stories about OGG. Just curiouse, as I'm fascinated by that airport. THanks!

User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 824 times:

As a pilot I have flown into OGG alot and I can tell you that the takeoffs there are not the problem. It is the landings that can be quite fun. I was once holding short of Runway 2 as a UAL DC-10 was repeatedly asking for a wind check from 3 miles out (winds 080/35 peak 50)
This UAL pilot was all over the place. He was really working those control surfaces. He landed long and as tower cleared him to the ramp all his said was "That was the F/O landing today" After some muffled laughter in the control tower, ATC replied "Tell him good job." Indeed OGG is fun but if you really want it, try JHM at Kapalua in West Maui. Thats a whole story in itslef. Clipper Hawaii



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 805 times:

Interesting story, Clipperhawaii. What are the largest planes they fly into Kapalua?

User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 797 times:

At the moment, Island Air Dash 8-100s. Back when they had them, Hawaiian flew the Dash 7s in, and Mahalo Air used the ATR-42. Jets are not allowed in Kapalua.

David / SAN


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 776 times:

Hawaiian717 is correct ATR's Dash7's and 8's have all gone in there. You can also include Cessna Caravans and I believe the Shorts 360 has also gone into JHM. Interestingly airport codes that start with the J prefix are usually designated for heliports. As a tribute to Hawaiian Airlines CEO who's company built the airport on Maui Land and Pineapple's land the FAA allowed Kapalua to become JHM (John H. Magoon).
I had also heard that Mid Pacific Air flew a YS-11(cargo) into JHM but I think that may be doubtful. Perhaps Hawaiian717 knows if this it true or not. Clipper



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineUprightnlocked From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 766 times:

Mid-air refueling.

User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3188 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 745 times:

Sorry, I don't know about Mid Pacific into JHM. I wish I had more info on them...  Smile

David / SAN
...who wishes he remembered his flight on Mid Pac's YS-11


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1023 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 735 times:

Who can forget going into JHM aboard a Twin Otter on a windy day?  Smile
Years ago one that was parked there was picked up off the ground by the wind. It sustained some damage to a wing and the landing gear.

T prop.


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