Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
A340 600 End Of The Sales Orders /line In 2010  
User currently offlineCorernagh14 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 79 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 19022 times:

With the confirmation by Airbus in their December 2009 O&D that the order for six A340 600 from Virgin Atlantic has now been formally cancelled that leaves only the two final aircraft for Iberia on the order books - rescheduled for September 2010 and December 2010. I believe these are MSN 1079 and MSN1083 and are largely completed at Toulouse already . Any info?

A few months ago Iberia had 3 A340 600 from their 2009 deliveries stored at Lourdes - are they still there alongside the 2 from Virgin Atlantic?

The only other sales order discussion was around a potential order from Aerolineas Argentines as part of a resolution to the commercial dispute with Grupo Marsans. Does anybody know the latest on this or will any Aerolineas Argentines order be for A330's (as with the Airbus final commercial resolution with SAA) .

If no other orders (and I cannot see why any existing airline or VIP customer would want or need any further aircraft) this will mean effectively the end of the line for the A340 600 - with about a hundred aircraft in service after a decade.

Any information / comments ?

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 18985 times:

It might be. After the Korean Order I see the 748i as likely - and if the 748i is available there is no more need for A346. Fortunately this does not mean layoffs or similar ugly consequences - the capacities are filled for years with A330s, and Airbus does not really mind which and how many engines to hang to the wing if they are told early enough...

User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 18879 times:

My favourite plane after her sister the -500.

What I don't know is if the the two planes made a loss for Airbus? What about for RR? don't think it was that bad if RR are working on the XWB.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 18718 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 2):
What I don't know is if the the two planes made a loss for Airbus? What about for RR? don't think it was that bad if RR are working on the XWB.

These planes never were intended to be money makers. They were a rather cheap and fast way for Airbus to establish as long range aircraft builders before the aircraft they expected to really change the game, the A380, was there. ( I know what some are going to say).


User currently offlineTofen From Sweden, joined Feb 2009, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 18505 times:

Airbus will probably continue to offer the A340s as long as they are selling A330s since it's the same line, same tools and same workers who are building them.

And as already said, Airbus won't be to sad to see the last one leave as long as they have a few hundred A330 orders still on the books.

RR on the other hand could face an end of T500 production. But since they are the lead engine on the A330 and only option for the A350, I don't see them being to moody about it.


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 18401 times:



Quoting Corernagh14 (Thread starter):
The only other sales order discussion was around a potential order from Aerolineas Argentines as part of a resolution to the commercial dispute with Grupo Marsans. Does anybody know the latest on this or will any Aerolineas Argentines order be for A330's (as with the Airbus final commercial resolution with SAA) .

I do wonder about that. Back in october AR stated they needed the planes fast, within 14-16 months, both A330's and A346's (Link: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ase-six-a330s-and-seven-a340s.html )
But since they will be leased, and it will also most likely mean at least a partial cancellation of the firm order by Marsans, this will all cause some complications and it wasn't too much of a surprise that the AR order isn't amongst Airbus' firm orders for 2009.

I hope it will still happen though. 7 more new A346's in the air by the beginning of 2011  cloudnine  But will Airbus start production of these birds before the order is firm?  Confused



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6680 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 18374 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):

These planes never were intended to be money makers.

Baloney. Airbus fully intended that the A346 would be the replacement for the 744 for those airlines not needing the A380. I'm sure they expected to sell several hundred of them; and if Boeing had not trumped them with the 77W, they would have. The superior performance of the 77W was a surprise to everyone, including Boeing. If it hadn't appeared most of the orders for the 77W would have gone to the A346; if the 77W had only been as good as Boeing initially said it was going to be the A346 would have likely claimed half of its orders. But since the 77W proved to be so much better than expected it has effectively killed off the A346. But as long as the A330 line is still open, Airbus can still sell A346's to those who want it, most likely for its hot and high performance, for example SA and IB.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 18148 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I expect what will determine whether or not Airbus continues to offer the A340-500 and A340-600 is the willingness of Rolls-Royce and parts suppliers to continue to offer Trent 500s and model-specific structural components.

As to whether any customer will actually order them, I expect there is always a chance from carriers who do not operate the 777, but I would not be surprised if they choose to wait and see how the A350XWB-1000 looks (once the -900 is in flight test and can "harden" the projected numbers).


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3423 posts, RR: 67
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 17867 times:



Quoting Tofen (Reply 4):
Airbus will probably continue to offer the A340s as long as they are selling A330s since it's the same line, same tools and same workers who are building them.

The wing tooling for the A345/6 is not the same as the A330. The A345/6 has an insert in the spar box, leading to increased separation between front and rear spars.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineParapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1509 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 17782 times:

It's one of the things that makes the airline market so interesting.Get it wrong and nobody loves you (767/4).The 77W is just too good.What loss will they make if any?We just don't know the numbers.It was a derivative plane with derivative engines on the same production line as the 330 using a tube from the 70's/ 80's so the numbers cannot be that high.

They have regestered the mistake and replaced it with the 351. For a while it looked like the 748i was in the same boat - and it still might be, but I doubt it.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 17663 times:



Quoting Frigatebird (Reply 5):
7 more new A346's in the air by the beginning of 2011

I don't think AR needs to buy NEW 346s. Many of the current airlines, especially Thai, Qatar, Iberia, will be delighted to sell them a few for a price much lower then a new one. AR's ego is not too big to ignore 2nd hand aircraft, look how they pick up 73G's left and right.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 17066 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 6):
Airbus fully intended that the A346 would be the replacement for the 744 for those airlines not needing the A380. I'm sure they expected to sell several hundred of them; and if Boeing had not trumped them with the 77W, they would have. The superior performance of the 77W was a surprise to everyone, including Boeing. If it hadn't appeared most of the orders for the 77W would have gone to the A346; if the 77W had only been as good as Boeing initially said it was going to be the A346 would have likely claimed half of its orders. But since the 77W proved to be so much better than expected it has effectively killed off the A346.

The A345 and A346 are great aircraft, but it is true that the 77L and 77W basically killed them. Both aircraft far exceeded Boeing's expectations (the original listed range of the 77W was supposed to be 7,250nm, whereas it's listed now as nearly 8,000nm. The newer A340s also turned out to be a little thirstier than anticipated. Given that the competing 777s could outperform the new A340s using less fuel, this development effectively killed the A345/6.

I've had the opportunity to fly 3 A346s, all on VS, and I must say that it is a magnificent aircraft. Never had the pleasure of flying the 77W yet.


User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 718 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 16827 times:

Don't be too quick to say the B77W outperformed or had superior performance to the A346.

I'm obviously biased toward the B77W but it's performance, useful load and take-off, was severely lacking when it operated our Abu Dhabi to Toronto flights last summer. On every flight when the outside temperature exceeded 37C the A346's performance was far better.

The A346 never left passenger baggage behind on the Toronto flight but the B77W did.



Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 16777 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Ejazz (Reply 12):
Don't be too quick to say the B77W outperformed or had superior performance to the A346.

Yes, there are certain routes, airports and missions where the A340-600 has an advantage, but "in general", the 777-300ER is more than capable at "doing the job" and the respective order books reflect that.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16157 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Yes, there are certain routes, airports and missions where the A340-600 has an advantage, but "in general", the 777-300ER is more than capable at "doing the job" and the respective order books reflect that.

 checkmark 

Agreed... for example, South African chose the A346 because it had better hot and high performance from airports such as JNB and CPT. But for a large majority of missions, the 77W is a more capable aircraft with lower fuel burn.


User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16093 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 6):
Baloney. Airbus fully intended that the A346 would be the replacement for the 744 for those airlines not needing the A380

I thought the A346 was to replace early gen 741's & 742's

As a question, how does the A346 compete with the 748? Could it be considered as an option to any airline considering the 748?

Since the A330 & A340 were pretty much developed under the same program, is it fair to continue to say the A340 were a waste? As a program, isn't it profitable, even if the A330's are generating most of the gains? It will be a sad day when they stop offering/producing them.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15985 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 15):
I thought the A346 was to replace early gen 741's & 742's

That might have been the plan, but Airbus was never quiet about touting a claimed 20% fuel burn advantage compared to the 747-400 and a number of 744 customers (VS, LH, IB amongst them) all added A340-600s to their fleet at what had to be the expense of additional 747-400 orders.

Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 15):
As a question, how does the A346 compete with the 748? Could it be considered as an option to any airline considering the 748?

The 747-8 will lift more people and more total payload weight than the A340-600. The A340-600 does offer two more LD3 positions and it's about 35 tons lighter empty. Using Lufthansa's projections, their 747-8s will burn 15% less fuel than their A340-600s per passenger per 100 kilometers, but that number reflects the fact that an LH 747-8 will hold 35% more people.


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 817 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15738 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
I thought the A346 was to replace early gen 741's & 742's

That's exactly how they marketed it but most of those companies went for the 777 and stuck with Boeing.

It did replace the MD-11 to a large extent with Swiss and probably facilitated that plane's lack of orders. It was a good idea for time when ETOPs concerns and range were driving a lot of the decisions. If you consider the A330/340 program as a whole, it's been hugely successful.

The 300 model did not make sense (too short) and this model hit its stride with the 500/600 variants. Still, a large number of customers went to the 777. The 748 will beat it soundly as mentioned in other posts so at that point its not economical. I suspect they will still offer it for at least 3 more years.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9837 posts, RR: 96
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15597 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
I expect what will determine whether or not Airbus continues to offer the A340-500 and A340-600 is the willingness of Rolls-Royce and parts suppliers to continue to offer Trent 500s and model-specific structural components.

I suspect they will, because in-service support of existing aircraft will require these parts..

Rgds


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 18):
suspect they will, because in-service support of existing aircraft will require these parts.

However, how large a stockpile does RR need to keep in terms of parts? Also, does RR have a dedicated assembly line for the Trent 500, or do they build other models on that line? If the former, will RR want to pay to mothball and maintain that line for an extended period of time in the hope of securing new Trent 500 orders?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15501 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 6):
The superior performance of the 77W was a surprise to everyone, including Boeing. If it hadn't appeared most of the orders for the 77W would have gone to the A346; if the 77W had only been as good as Boeing initially said it was going to be the A346 would have likely claimed half of its orders.

The same can be said about the 332 vs the 767 and the 333 vs the 77A.
This is why airframe manufacturers now prefer to not directly compete on capabilities but stagger their product lines w/ their competitors in order to maximize their sales potential and minimize direct comparisons.

Quoting Cba (Reply 14):
Agreed... for example, South African chose the A346 because it had better hot and high performance from airports such as JNB and CPT. But for a large majority of missions, the 77W is a more capable aircraft with lower fuel burn.

it is the same quads vs. twins argument. Quads do have advantages in some regards including performance limited scenarios. Still, those are relatively small and there are very few airlines that have enough routes that are performance limited in which one plane or the other will make a difference.
And you still can't overcome the fact that the 777 esp in the LR and the W variant is cheaper to operate than the 345 or 6.
Sometimes it might make sense to leave a few passengers or some cargo behind a few times per year on certain routes in order to gain lower costs year round.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 912 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15422 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
These planes never were intended to be money makers. They were a rather cheap and fast way for Airbus to establish as long range aircraft builders before the aircraft they expected to really change the game, the A380, was there. ( I know what some are going to say).

That's crazy.

Airbus invested over $3 billion dollars and five years to develop the A340-500/600. They were not at all "fast" nor "cheap" to develop. Airbus expected to capture at least half of the 300-400 seat market for 747 replacement and growth, which would have made the A345/A346 a tremendously profitable aircraft. Instead, Airbus netted about 20% and lost over a half-dozen A345/A346 customers after they had their aircraft in-service.

You can't play revisionist history:

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRA34060.htm


User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15244 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
IB

Unless I'm mistaken IB did not ever order new build 744s.


User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15120 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 6):
But since the 77W proved to be so much better than expected it has effectively killed off the A346.

A combination of that and the alarming rise in fuel prices at the time.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15029 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 22):
Unless I'm mistaken IB did not ever order new build 744s.

Looks like they did not. My mistake.


25 SolarFlyer22 : That's true but on the same link it says it sold 126 of them and assuming the average price was 110 million in 1997 dollars that gets you this equati
26 Lightsaber : Boeing just clipped that market away. As others noted, Airbus expected to sell multiples more than they did. Part of the problem with the added weigh
27 Cba : I'm going to disagree. The A343 was a great aircraft for its time, but was outperformed once the 777-200ER came on the market, offering better range/
28 Shankly : Just had my first flights on the 77W with EK, LHR-DXB, DXB-CPT and CPT-DXB and have to say (declaring here that I am a huge A346 fan) I was mightily
29 DfwRevolution : But only 10-15% of that goes to recuperating the research and development cost. That means Airbus probably recuperated about $1.5 billion from their
30 EbbUK : Well that's money in the bank and a whole load of knowledge for the next project. And they paid back the loan did they?
31 YULWinterSkies : Not so sure exactly how much the 748I will beat the A340-600, by looking at the current order books. They are not exactly in the same league anyway a
32 Stitch : The A330-A340 repayment should have been completed by 2004 per the 17-year repayment schedule. A340-500/A340-600 final repayment should come due by 2
33 Astuteman : D'you know, I was actually in the building today, but only in the offices. (don't ask ) I should have asked Rgds
34 R2rho : As has been said, the wing tooling of the A3456 is different from the rest of the series. In fact, the A3456 have a couple differences (at systems lev
35 SolarFlyer22 : Well, according to Wikipedia the A340 line had 348 orders so that clearly would have crossed the repayment threshold. The 300 model I was thinking of
36 Stitch : The A330-200, A330-300, A340-200 and A340-300 were all launched under the same RLA agreement, so deliveries of all four models (now passing 900 frame
37 BrianDromey : Undoubtedly the A345/6 has it's nice, but the 77W can haul more, father, more of the time, with less fuel burn for more carriers. Those who need the
38 Glbltrvlr : Impressive looking from the outside, and comfortable enough in business class. But the couple of times I walked back through coach on a long flight,
39 SEPilot : As others have stated, the A346 definitely has an advantage at hot-and-high airports (or extremely hot, as in Abu Dhabi). But unless a large number o
40 JAL : How many of the new variants were sold by Airbus?
41 KennyK : If Airbus had not produced the 500/600 would Boeing have produced a 777 that is so effective/efficient as it is today ?. Airbus are now developing the
42 PM : The -500 and -600 had disappointing sales. There's no point in pretending otherwise. They also failed to impress quite a few airlines. Air Canada had
43 Stitch : Yes. Boeing launched the 777X development program soon after the 777-200ER entered service. The original plans were for engines of around 100,000 pou
44 Cpd : Sydney would be smilar I guess, we get a lot of days with 40C and above (recently 43C) - so I'd expect the long routes out of Sydney would operate wi
45 DocLightning : Doesn't the 748i have a lot more capacity than the 346? The 77W is a much fairer comparison to the 346. I flew an A300 as a kid (I think LH or PA...f
46 PM : Assuming you can build those 15 for free!
47 Viscount724 : If memory correct, LX did not inherit the 346 orders from the bankrupt Swissair. I'm fairly sure Airbus was stuck with those aircraft and had to find
48 Stitch : Well we need to remember that "$200 million" includes the engines, avionics, cabin interior, and other ancillaries needed to make an A340-600 a usabl
49 Lightsaber : One of them makes many an a.net A346 discussion. It is going to depend on the number of years flown. Much of the revenue is the 'razor blade' model.
50 2707200X : Even with the trend toward large two engined airliners like the A330 and the 777 200 and 300ER, the A340 family has done fairly well with the orders t
51 747400sp : As a 747 fan, this is good news. As an A346 fan, this is not so good news. I not fully happy will VS buying A330s. To me, the only twins that fit VS
52 LVZXV : AR hasn't made any commitments towards new (or used) widebodies yet. The collapse of Air Comet though did relieve the pressure being placed on the Arg
53 Astuteman : I agree. It won't have cost ny more than the 748 to develop, and we're told that this programme will be in the black after 100 frames. Like you, I th
54 Zvezda : Probably in 2010 or 2011, Airbus will announce (perhaps quietly to the airlines) a last chance to place A340 orders. After that, the A340-specific too
55 Aerosol : Maybe because it was the first intro of a widebody when I was on a net, but when the bird started with cathay, with all the weight and other problems
56 Ivo : According to Airlinerlist.com: c/n 1030 & 1042 A330-223 ex Grupo Marsans for Aerolineas Argentinas. (P&W powered) Ivo
57 SEPilot : How much does it cost to keep the tooling? I would think as long as the A330 is selling, the cost to keep the A340 tooling is minimal; much of it wil
58 Scouseflyer : I'm sure it's been said before but this order (despite being announced at least twice) was never actually placed. Airbus had a go as trying to get AR
59 OldAeroGuy : I'm not too sure about this statement. The 748 did not change the wing spar spacing while the A345/6 added a triangular insert between the spars. Thi
60 Astuteman : The cost may be in the form of "Opportunity Cost" - Airliner output is currently at an all-time high, and although it may fall slightly for a year or
61 SEPilot : You have more experience with that than I do, but I still believe that since they have to maintain product support, it cannot add that much overhead
62 Corernagh14 : Was no -one able to confirm whether or not the 3 Iberia A340 600 delivered by airbus in 2009 are still stored at Lourdes ??
63 LVZXV : I am 99% certain they still are. Iberia, AFAIK, has said yes to them, but for delivery between Sep and Dec 2010. Maybe now that they've upped frequen
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The End Of The 737 Production Line.... posted Wed Apr 23 2003 18:02:07 by Douglas DC-9
B737 And A320 Near End Of The Line? posted Tue May 27 2008 11:38:13 by Naritaflyer
The End Of The Original 748 In Europe? posted Mon Oct 16 2006 23:24:14 by DHHornet
End Of The Cebu Pacific DC9 Era In The Philippines posted Sat Jul 15 2006 16:28:34 by Lufthansa747
The End Of The A340? posted Thu Jun 16 2005 12:17:53 by RootsAir
The END Of The 767 Line posted Mon Aug 30 2004 00:47:49 by UNDAEROSPACE
The End Of The MD80/90 In Europe, How Soon! posted Wed Mar 10 2004 12:35:27 by CV990
End Of The Line For The 757 CO Delays Delivery posted Mon Jul 14 2003 12:17:20 by Bestwestern
End Of The Shortest Route In The World? posted Sun Oct 29 2000 21:36:18 by Scotty
The End Of The Road For This A340. posted Sun Sep 10 2000 16:45:44 by Hmmmm...
The End Of The 737 Production Line.... posted Wed Apr 23 2003 18:02:07 by Douglas DC-9
The End Of The Production Of The CRJ In Sight? posted Tue Sep 20 2011 08:32:41 by SASMD82
End Of The Line For JA8908 posted Tue Dec 21 2010 10:58:11 by 71Zulu
The End Of The 717 In The Continental US? posted Mon Sep 27 2010 19:16:19 by TrijetsRMissed
B737 And A320 Near End Of The Line? posted Tue May 27 2008 11:38:13 by Naritaflyer
The End Of The Original 748 In Europe? posted Mon Oct 16 2006 23:24:14 by DHHornet
End Of The Cebu Pacific DC9 Era In The Philippines posted Sat Jul 15 2006 16:28:34 by Lufthansa747
The End Of The A340? posted Thu Jun 16 2005 12:17:53 by RootsAir
The END Of The 767 Line posted Mon Aug 30 2004 00:47:49 by UNDAEROSPACE