Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7218 posts, RR: 10 Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 22013 times:
Delta has purchased 9 more MD-90's from China Eastern Airlines. Aircraft will be delivered between February and July. This will make Delta the second largest MD-90 operator in the world with 28, and only behind Saudi Arabian Airlines which has 29.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 22006 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter): Delta has purchased 9 more MD-90's from China Eastern Airlines. Aircraft will be delivered between February and July. This will make Delta the second largest MD-90 operator in the world with 28, and only behind Saudi Arabian Airlines which has 29.
Wow, really? I thought DL was shedding MD-90s?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 7531 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21981 times:
This info has no official release, yet. Until it does, I believe it's proprietary.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21896 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 1): Wow, really? I thought DL was shedding MD-90s?
That they are looking for additional MD-90s has been rumored for some time. It makes sense to grow the fleet as the same basic economic dynamics apply as did for NW acquiring its huge fleet of DC-9s. In this case, they get a contemporary aircraft in terms of engines and (roughly) fuel consumption while paying a fraction of the acquisition cost. They also develop better economies of scale for the type.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21857 times:
Quoting Logos (Reply 3): It makes sense to grow the fleet as the same basic economic dynamics apply as did for NW acquiring its huge fleet of DC-9s. In this case, they get a contemporary aircraft in terms of engines and (roughly) fuel consumption while paying a fraction of the acquisition cost. They also develop better economies of scale for the type.
But this is hardly a fleet the size of the NW DC-9 fleet, at it isn't like DL doesn't have superior aircraft in the same class in the 738. Also, I heard the MX costs were absolutely insane because of the rarity of some parts.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
BUFMD90PL From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21714 times:
This is good! More great airplanes to add to their fleet.
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21751 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4): But this is hardly a fleet the size of the NW DC-9 fleet, at it isn't like DL doesn't have superior aircraft in the same class in the 738. Also, I heard the MX costs were absolutely insane because of the rarity of some parts.
The MD-90 fleet is to grow to 65+. Delta has also stated the MD-90 is it's most efficient narrowbody aircraft . So look for more announcements in the future
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21662 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4): it isn't like DL doesn't have superior aircraft in the same class in the 738.
That's not the point and the 738 isn't all that superior in fuel consumption. IIRC from a previous thread, there's almost no advantage at all on routes of 500 miles or less. Verses a new 738, the MD-90 costs maybe half and that will pay for a lot of maintenance (although I seem to remember hearing that Delta had gotten some of that under control as well). You can deploy this aircraft on shorter segments, like up and down the east coast out of Atlanta and use the freed up 738 frames for longer segments.
In terms of the DC-9 I was only noting the that rationale (lower cost of acquisition of an aircraft with a lot of useful life left in it) was the same, not the scale.
Sparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21503 times:
The LOI was signed on those 9 aircraft about a month ago.These are in addition to the three from Hello that already belong to Delta.
Sparky
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9080 posts, RR: 40 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21438 times:
Noob question alert- I always thought a MD-90 was an MD-80/88 with larger engines, etc. Is it possible to convert MD-88's to MD-90's?
/noob question.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1636 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21402 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 6): The MD-90 fleet is to grow to 65+. Delta has also stated the MD-90 is it's most efficient narrowbody aircraft . So look for more announcements in the future
If that is the case, then their decision to cancel the 100 or so on order when MDD was still in business in favor of the 737-800 was not all that great? These planes will last 40 years or more as well. DC-9's and DC-8's, were built like tanks. The 737-800 is more versatile, but evidentally, on most of DL routes, the MD-90 is just as or more fuel efficient, much cheaper to acquire, and now, not too much more if at all expensive to maintain. With the other post about a mod for the MD-88's increasing their fuel economy by 6-12%, and making them quieter, it sounds like the Mad Dogs will be around for years to come.
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2378 posts, RR: 29 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21374 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 6): The MD-90 fleet is to grow to 65+.
That's a pretty lofty goal considering that the type is no longer made and only about 100 are in service around the entire world..
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21374 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9): Noob question alert- I always thought a MD-90 was an MD-80/88 with larger engines
I think it is around a metre longer than the MD-80/88 ( IIRC the forward fuselage needed to be stretched to counter the weight of the heavier engines at the rear ) so I dont think that a conversion would be possible ... or at least , not easy .
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
MD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 24 Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 21289 times:
An MD90 has significant changes and making and Md88 into an MD90 is not an option.
Good news for DAL. Rumors state that these are the first of many MD90s coming to DAL. I believe they will keep the fleet size static as rjs and dc9s leave the fleet.
Cadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9080 posts, RR: 40 Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21254 times:
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21265 times:
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11): That's a pretty lofty goal considering that the type is no longer made and only about 100 are in service around the entire world..
Not at all. About 45 more around the world with analog cockpits that nobody wants.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11545 posts, RR: 27 Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21243 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4): Also, I heard the MX costs were absolutely insane because of the rarity of some parts.
And the acquisition costs are also insane, which probably more than makes up for it. Not to mention that there is probably a good deal of parts commonality with the MD-88s, the 717s floating around other airlines, and the engines are also used on the A320 (but not DL's I believe). Still, it isn't like the MD-90 is completely a white elephant.
Quoting BUFMD90PL (Reply 5): More great airplanes to add to their fleet.
A relative of mine flew on one just yesterday and said it was pretty good.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6093 posts, RR: 38 Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21239 times:
Quoting Milesrich (Reply 10): If that is the case, then their decision to cancel the 100 or so on order when MDD was still in business in favor of the 737-800 was not all that great?
Not necessarily. The economics of purchasing used MD-90's cheaply when there's little demand for the type are different from purchasing them new from the manufacturer. Moreover, the 737-800 boasts advantages in range and capacity; the MD-90 can't perform transcon routes like the 737-800 can.
Deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1508 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21007 times:
Back in the late 80s, DL had an order for like over 100 maybe 200 MD-90s. Don't know why the cancelled them, but as we know they did take delivery of 20 of that first batch. Interesting they are now going back and looking for more...
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 5908 posts, RR: 39 Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 20877 times:
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 19): Interesting they are now going back and looking for more...
It's all about price. Buying them used is a huge difference from buying them new. When buying cars I usually look for one 2 or 3 years old; I get 80% of the life for 50% of the cost. Same principle applies to aircraft, especially if it's one that is not popular but works well for your airline.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
DiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1107 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 20808 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 6): The MD-90 fleet is to grow to 65+
If I were a betting man, I'd guess it'll end up around 79. They'll probably try to get all the MD-90's, excluding the differently equipped SV birds, and the two built in China.
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2883 posts, RR: 35 Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 20684 times:
Just flew DL's MD-90s twice in the last week. They are powerful birds, but are seriously lacking in interior appearance. Even though both my aircraft had the new interiors, things were falling apart, lights weren't working, call buttons not functioning, TVs completely distorted. It was a gigantic mess on both flights, even though both flights were on different regs.
Another problem that I actually addressed to the FA... I fly DL MD-80s at least twice a month every month, especially since they love using them in SLC. When the pilots are on the PA is more or less clear, when the FAs are talking over it you can barely hear them, and I'm talking like completely hard to hear. On the ground its borderline ok, in-flight you have to REALLY strain your ears to understand anything. To make sure I was not alone on this, I asked a few fellow passengers on numerous flights, and they all said the same thing. The FA wasn't surprised by the comment at all.
So if DL decides they need to get more of these wonderfully-performing birds, I sure hope there is a lot of changes coming to the interior of these aircraft!
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 20597 times:
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 22): Just flew DL's MD-90s twice in the last week. They are powerful birds, but are seriously lacking in interior appearance. Even though both my aircraft had the new interiors, things were falling apart, lights weren't working, call buttons not functioning, TVs completely distorted. It was a gigantic mess on both flights, even though both flights were on different regs.
Unless your aircraft had 160 seats, you did not have the new interior. Delta will be configuring the MD-90 with 160 seats and a new IFE system. They are working with the FAA on a new STC at this time
Nycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 20471 times:
There are a few replies in this thread, they are very cheap to acquire and fit the route system well, and DL wants the economies of scale that the current fleet (being too small) don't offer, it was either grow or eliminate the fleet.
Peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1165 posts, RR: 3 Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 22710 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 23): Why more MD90's? Aren't there a lot of other options buying more modern, fuel saving planes? Embraer, Airbus 320.
Answer:
Quoting Logos (Reply 3): It makes sense to grow the fleet as the same basic economic dynamics apply as did for NW acquiring its huge fleet of DC-9s. In this case, they get a contemporary aircraft in terms of engines and (roughly) fuel consumption while paying a fraction of the acquisition cost. They also develop better economies of scale for the type.
This strategy worked extremely well for NW in the 90's and until recently.
Noticing your "dislike" for "anything but new" aircraft on previous threads, you should be very worried about these developments...
Long live the T-tail!!!
[Edited 2010-01-15 12:11:52]
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 22356 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 23): Why more MD90's? Aren't there a lot of other options buying more modern, fuel saving planes? Embraer, Airbus 320.
All of which are much more expensive to acquire. And, as stated, the fuel consumption on the MD-90 is essentially a wash with the A320 and the 738, especially on shorter routes. This is smart business on Delta's part.
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21888 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 23): Why more MD90's? Aren't there a lot of other options buying more modern, fuel saving planes? Embraer, Airbus 320.
Delta is paying between 6 and 7 million per copy for airplanes 15 years old or newer. The MD-90 has fuel economy equal to the 738 and the A320, a true stage 4 aircraft that has never had a fatal accident.What more could you ask for.
Quoting IliriBDL (Reply 28): They'll probably go after JAL's MD-90s if they become partners.
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 29 Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21965 times:
A couple years ago, MD-90's were available to Delta for $7-9M each. Two years later, in this environment, they are likely even cheaper.
Put it this way, you can buy 4-5 used MD-90's for the price of 1 new 738 or A320. Same capacity, same fuel burn.
Don't forget that, even though it is no longer produced, the MD-90 was built to compete with te 738 and A320. Sure it was a refresh of an older airplane, but so was the 738. And the A320 has been around for 20+ years itself.
IliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 19 Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21664 times:
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 32): A couple years ago, MD-90's were available to Delta for $7-9M each. Two years later, in this environment, they are likely even cheaper.
Put it this way, you can buy 4-5 used MD-90's for the price of 1 new 738 or A320. Same capacity, same fuel burn.
Don't forget that, even though it is no longer produced, the MD-90 was built to compete with te 738 and A320. Sure it was a refresh of an older airplane, but so was the 738. And the A320 has been around for 20+ years itself.
Also already having a large MD-88 fleet plays a big part IMO.
Logos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 759 posts, RR: 2 Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21539 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 30): Delta is paying between 6 and 7 million per copy for airplanes 15 years old or newer.
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 32): A couple years ago, MD-90's were available to Delta for $7-9M each. Two years later, in this environment, they are likely even cheaper.
Boy, I didn't realize they were that cheap (hadn't really checked). That makes this all the more a no brainer for Delta.
VictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21344 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 29): It is part of the DL/JAL deal for DL to take th JAL M90s.
I would expect the JAL MD90's to make their way to Delta independently of any partnership decision. JAL wants to reduce capacity and DL wants the planes. AA's desire to partner with JAL is not going to change in JAL sells the MD90's to DL- and even if JAL wants to go it alone, a deal to sell the MD90's makes sense for them.
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21218 times:
Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 35): I would expect the JAL MD90's to make their way to Delta independently of any partnership decision
The JAL deal is based on a sale/leaseback arrangement.
Manfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21237 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 23): Why more MD90's? Aren't there a lot of other options buying more modern, fuel saving planes? Embraer, Airbus 320.
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 30): Delta is paying between 6 and 7 million per copy for airplanes 15 years old or newer. The MD-90 has fuel economy equal to the 738 and the A320, a true stage 4 aircraft that has never had a fatal accident.What more could you ask for.
This is such an under rated topic:
In Short: MD90. beautiful, capable, under appreciated aircraft. It has always perplexed me how airlines (American ones in particular) don't realise how they can make older airplanes work in their fleet.
As early as 1997/98 I began to see a discouraging trend towards "all new" fleets for little or no reason whatsoever. Airlines were getting rid of 7-10 year old aircraft when they should have been keeping them.
Then came the RJ's and all hell broke loose. We lost our minds, thought they were the next best thing since sliced bread. Too bad really, as the MD80/90 717 would have stopped a lot of this bleeding and airlines would have saved a lot of money in the process.
Boeing: bring back an ultra efficient 717NG. Secure the 100 pax segment and watch sales grow!
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 21094 times:
Quoting Peanuts (Reply 26): This strategy worked extremely well for NW in the 90's and until recently.
Northwest had the same strategy with DC9 and DC10's and it proved very succesfull for them. Buy them for a full bucks while other sell them, give them a new interior and paintjob, load them full & fly them hard..
Peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1165 posts, RR: 3 Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20971 times:
Quoting Manfredj (Reply 37): It has always perplexed me how airlines (American ones in particular) don't realise how they can make older airplanes work in their fleet.
I've always thought it was the Europeans and Asians guilty of ditching perfectly fine equipment. NW was the main trendsetter in the 90"s to keep and acquire "classic" aircraft. DC-9's and DC-10's come to mind. Then DL did it with acquiring more L1011's I believe.
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16224 posts, RR: 57 Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20932 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 18): Back in the late 80s, DL had an order for like over 100 maybe 200 MD-90s. Don't know why the cancelled them, but as we know they did take delivery of 20 of that first batch. Interesting they are now going back and looking for more...
There were some teething issues with the a/c (avionics and electrical related) that soured DL early on and throw in the range and fuel burn issues with the MD-11s and DL was no longer a happy MDD customer. These issues with the MD-90s were fixed, but it was a case of too little, too late. The MD-90s were supposed to be DL's 727 replacement which ended being the 738.
Too bad DL didn't pick up the ex-Air Aruba ones that were painted up for the failed re-start of Pro Air when they had the chance. Of course, they were more likely at that time to be trying to park theirs instead of picking more up. There were three MD-90s that were scrapped @ MZJ several years back.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 17): Moreover, the 737-800 boasts advantages in range and capacity; the MD-90 can't perform transcon routes like the 737-800 can.
They were a workhorse for them out of DFW back when they still hubbed there, much like what AA's MD-80s do out of DFW.
Hello Airplanes? Yeah, it's Blimps. You win, bye....
Peachair From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 4 Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20646 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 6): The MD-90 fleet is to grow to 65+. Delta has also stated the MD-90 is it's most efficient narrowbody aircraft . So look for more announcements in the future
I heard just last week that it would be up to 70 - so that's pretty close!
Quoting Milesrich (Reply 10): f that is the case, then their decision to cancel the 100 or so on order when MDD was still in business in favor of the 737-800 was not all that great?
It is a very different environment now than it was then. This is an opportunity that DL would be foolish not to take advantage of...
Type-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 3664 posts, RR: 23 Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20576 times:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't DL originaly buy the MD-90 to use in the western US where they often encounter hot & high take off conditions such as DEN & SLC?
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 6721 posts, RR: 3 Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20361 times:
Quoting Manfredj (Reply 37): As early as 1997/98 I began to see a discouraging trend towards "all new" fleets for little or no reason whatsoever.
Yes, this is because Boeing and Airbus wanted to sell fleets of new jets. If you sell them cheap enough, airlines will buy.
Quoting Manfredj (Reply 37): Then came the RJ's and all hell broke loose. We lost our minds, thought they were the next best thing since sliced bread. Too bad really, as the MD80/90 717 would have stopped a lot of this bleeding and airlines would have saved a lot of money in the process.
Boeing: bring back an ultra efficient 717NG. Secure the 100 pax segment and watch sales grow!
Sorry bud, this is a fantasy, I am afraid. RJs make more profits than 737-200s, or 717s. That's why they are there. The 717 died mainly because of the peculiar United States labor market, where a 717 captain makes ballpark just as much as an A320 captain. So, airlines buy A320s. And the 717 was not much good in overseas markets.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 7671 posts, RR: 8 Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20302 times:
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 18):
Back in the late 80s, DL had an order for like over 100 maybe 200 MD-90s. Don't know why the cancelled them, but as we know they did take delivery of 20 of that first batch. Interesting they are now going back and looking for more...
738 is a better 722 replacement, which is what DL was going to use the M90s for.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
WESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 662 posts, RR: 1 Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20266 times:
Good news for DL I hope they get as many M90s as they can. Its a great airplane, and much cheaper than a 320 or 738.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20519 times:
From a.net aircraft data:
MD-90-55
- Range with 187 passengers 5005km (2700nm).
- Operating empty 41,685kg (91,900lb), max takeoff 78,245kg (172,500lb).
737-800
- Standard range with 162 passengers 3585km (1990nm) or 5445km (2940nm) for high gross weight version.
- Operating empty 41,145kg (90,710lb), max takeoff 70,535kg (155,500lb), high gross weight max takeoff 79,015kg (174,200lb).
The V2500 engines of the MD90 are very similar to the V2500 of the 126 NWA A320 series.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 7671 posts, RR: 8 Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 20126 times:
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1402 posts, RR: 14 Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19825 times:
The only MD-90s in existence are 30s. And between the 30s, all of them are regular 30s except for 1 MD-90-30IGW, 2 MD-90-30ERs, and 2 MD-90-30Ts (the chinese ones). So I don't think it's fair to compare the 738 to a non-existent plane.
Quoting Keesje (Reply 47): The V2500 engines of the MD90 are very similar to the V2500 of the 126 NWA A320 series.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19732 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 47): The V2500 engines of the MD90 are very similar to the V2500 of the 126 NWA A320 series.
The NWA A320 series use CFM56 engines, not V2500.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19281 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 23): Why more MD90's? Aren't there a lot of other options buying more modern, fuel saving planes? Embraer, Airbus 320.
The MD-90 is significantly larger than anything Embraer makes. As said before, she has similar fuel consumption to the 738 and A320. The only real disadvantages are rarity and range. DL is making up for the rarity by specializing in the type.
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 32):
Don't forget that, even though it is no longer produced, the MD-90 was built to compete with te 738 and A320. Sure it was a refresh of an older airplane, but so was the 738. And the A320 has been around for 20+ years itself.
Well, it competes on costs (outside MX, which DL apparently has brought under control) but not on range and is slightly smaller.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 44): RJs make more profits than 737-200s, or 717s.
Yeah, we all know those numbers are garbage. I'm shocked you bothered using them. In what lifetime do you think the MD-90 has more range than the 738? Or more capacity for that matter?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 2 Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19133 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 51): Yeah, we all know those numbers are garbage. I'm shocked you bothered using them. In what lifetime do you think the MD-90 has more range than the 738? Or more capacity for that matter?
The 738 and MD-90 will soon carry the same number of passengers (160) in the DL fleet.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
Manfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19039 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 44): RJs make more profits than 737-200s, or 717s. That's why they are there.
Could the 717/MD90/733/735 be coming into its own as a money saver? They can be gotten for cheap and they are almost as fuel efficient as their NG737 counterparts.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 44): The 717 died mainly because of the peculiar United States labor market, where a 717 captain makes ballpark just as much as an A320 captain.
So you're saying the labor unions brought down the 717? My gosh that's sad. So essentially the RJ compounded the situation with an Embrair captain making around 15/hour. But that was okay because they operated under the same name as the major but under a completely different airline.
I have a few express pilot friends that are constantly compaining about working too much for too little.....but that's been the case with regionals as long as I can remember. It's sad really.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 18464 posts, RR: 17 Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 18928 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9): Is it possible to convert MD-88's to MD-90's?
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12): Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9):
Noob question alert- I always thought a MD-90 was an MD-80/88 with larger engines
I think it is around a metre longer than the MD-80/88 ( IIRC the forward fuselage needed to be stretched to counter the weight of the heavier engines at the rear )
I believe each V2500 on the MD-90 weighs about 600 lbs. more than the JT8D on the MD-88.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19024 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 50): The NWA A320 series use CFM56 engines, not V2500.
I didn't know did a search and saw it confirmed somewhere, wrongly obviously
Quoting FL787 (Reply 49): The only MD-90s in existence are 30s. And between the 30s, all of them are regular 30s except for 1 MD-90-30IGW, 2 MD-90-30ERs, and 2 MD-90-30Ts (the chinese ones). So I don't think it's fair to compare the 738 to a non-existent plane.
fair?! is it a battle? The specs of the -30 and -50 are very similar and compare to the 737-8
Quoting N1120A (Reply 51): Yeah, we all know those numbers are garbage. I'm shocked you bothered using them. In what lifetime do you think the MD-90 has more range than the 738? Or more capacity for that matter?
If you had taken the time to look on the route structure and fleet of Delta you could have know range isn't that critical for narrowbodies. On how many routes would range disqualfy the MD90 and not the 738?
Gr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 18 Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18768 times:
A relatively minor point, but I think Delta's MD-90s would look so much better with dark blue nacelles. The white ones always look so dirty.
BWI5OH From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18777 times:
I had the opportunity to fly on the -90 in the summer from ATL-BWI on DL. I thought it was a rather comfortable, smooth flyer. I also noticed how it seemed to have more power on take-off than the -88's. I'm glad Delta has decided to purchase more...seems to be great business sense to buy 4-5 used aircraft instead of 1 new one at the same cost, plus the benefit of having more capacity on short haul high load flights.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1402 posts, RR: 14 Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18584 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 55): fair?! is it a battle? The specs of the -30 and -50 are very similar and compare to the 737-8
No it's not a battle but no MD-90-50s were ever made so it doesn't make sense to use it as a comparison.
WesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5219 posts, RR: 28 Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18399 times:
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 43): Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't DL originaly buy the MD-90 to use in the western US where they often encounter hot & high take off conditions such as DEN & SLC?
...and that's where they were based until just recently, now I think they are split between SLC and MSP until they can all be transferred there. I better get my butt on one soon!
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 29 Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18271 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 51): Well, it competes on costs (outside MX, which DL apparently has brought under control) but not on range and is slightly smaller.
Its not smaller, its bigger than a A320 and will have the same pax capacity as a DL 738.
And, as mentioned, DL has plenty of other longer-range aircraft. A MD-90 is actually more economical in medium-haul flights than a 738...so MSP to the coasts works great.
Micstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 741 posts, RR: 1 Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17980 times:
Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 56): A relatively minor point, but I think Delta's MD-90s would look so much better with dark blue nacelles. The white ones always look so dirty.
I agree with this. Also for the 88's. Does anybody have a photo shopped picture of what this would look like?
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3329 posts, RR: 12 Reply 62, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17863 times:
Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 59): ...and that's where they were based until just recently, now I think they are split between SLC and MSP until they can all be transferred there. I better get my butt on one soon!
From what I've heard they will all be based at MSP, where they can reach anywhere in the lower 48, while some NW A320s will be moved to SLC. As of right now, however, they are all still based at SLC.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 5701 posts, RR: 28 Reply 63, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17770 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 55):
Delta uses a huge 757 fleet for longer flights.
It does and some of them will be retired in the not too distant future. With no clear replacement to buy new, it will be up to the 738/A320/MD90 to backfill.
DLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17501 times:
It does and some of them will be retired in the not too distant future. With no clear replacement to buy new, it will be up to the 738/A320/MD90 to backfill.
Delta will have more 757s than routes that require the legs/performance even after DL retires all the NW 5500 series 757s.
They have a long term problem addressing trans-cons and high capacity short haul routes (as does any other US operator), but this has nothing to do with the MD90 acquisions.
LMP737 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 4459 posts, RR: 27 Reply 65, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17385 times:
Okay, which of you Delta mechanics have been messing around with the CEO's wife? Â
Timf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 887 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15711 times:
Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 66): When are the other MD90s they recently purchased entering the fleet? Will they have the new config and pvts?
There was another thread earlier this week that said the first one does have PTVs and is waiting for it's STC from the FAA for the PTVs. It should be ready to go in a month or two. None of the other aircraft have been delivered yet, but they are expected by summer.
A300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 438 posts, RR: 0 Reply 69, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15697 times:
MD-90 is the only one of the DC-9 family that I actually enjoy flying on, albeit that have yet to fly the MD-95 (B717). They are far better than those horrible AA MD-82/83s. I am very pleased that DL is buying them up for a "song". I am sure someone else will pick up the ex-Saudi ships. BTW, I have flown on the SV ones and they were quite nice.
DeltaCTO From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15665 times:
Quoting Peanuts (Reply 39): Then DL did it with acquiring more L1011's I believe.
Yes, DL acquired 10 ex-Eastern L-1011's,
making a total of 56 L-1011's
DeltaCTO From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 71, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15573 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 67): Actually, the MD-90s max capacity is 7 fewer than the A320 and 17 fewer than the 738
738's are 16F/144Y
Currently MD-90's are 12F/138Y
once they get the new interiors, they will be exactly like the 738 - 16F/144Y
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 22): Delta will be configuring the MD-90 with 160 seats and a new IFE system.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 72, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15472 times:
once they get the new interiors, they will be exactly like the 738 - 16F/144Y
That's all well and good, but both the 738 and A320 have more potential seating capacity. Delta's choice of configuration is a different thing and it pretty much just means the MD-90 will be more cramped.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
WesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5219 posts, RR: 28 Reply 73, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15408 times:
Quoting A300 (Reply 69): I am very pleased that DL is buying them up for a "song".
Well, that's good for DL then, since that's all DL could do for a "song" lol. I love the MD-90's here in SLC, 913 has always been my fave...
AKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1956 posts, RR: 8 Reply 74, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15273 times:
Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20): They'll probably try to get all the MD-90's, excluding the differently equipped SV birds, and the two built in China.
Is there something wrong with the Chinese birds? Why wouldn't DL pick these up also?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 18464 posts, RR: 17 Reply 75, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15043 times:
Quoting DeltaCTO (Reply 70): Quoting Peanuts (Reply 39):
Then DL did it with acquiring more L1011's I believe.
Yes, DL acquired 10 ex-Eastern L-1011's,
DL also acquired 8 ex-Pan Am L-1011-500s and 6 ex-AC L-1011-500s. Of the ex-PA aircraft, 3 were purchased directly from Pan Am and 5 a few years later from UA. The latter 5 were part of UA's purchase of PA's Pacific routes in 1986 but UA disposed of the L15s after a couple of years.
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2652 posts, RR: 9 Reply 76, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14744 times:
Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 74): Is there something wrong with the Chinese birds? Why wouldn't DL pick these up also?
Perhaps it has to do with the public perception of a Chinese-manufactured aircraft? Same reason why there was outcry over the Cessna Skycatcher being made in China, and why no North American carrier flies Russian-made aircraft.
DUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14714 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9): Noob question alert- I always thought a MD-90 was an MD-80/88 with larger engines, etc. Is it possible to convert MD-88's to MD-90's?
/noob question.
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12): I think it is around a metre longer than the MD-80/88 ( IIRC the forward fuselage needed to be stretched to counter the weight of the heavier engines at the rear ) so I dont think that a conversion would be possible ... or at least , not easy .
completely different tail section and there are some flight deck differences as well I believe.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 3722 posts, RR: 15 Reply 79, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14542 times:
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 76): Perhaps it has to do with the public perception of a Chinese-manufactured aircraft?
some of those Chinese assembled MD80s have been in service with US airlines- Spirit and American - for years
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 80, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13788 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 72): That's all well and good, but both the 738 and A320 have more potential seating capacity. Delta's choice of configuration is a different thing and it pretty much just means the MD-90 will be more cramped.
Nope. Delta is removing the rear galley's to make room for additional seating
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77): AA passengers don't seem to have a problem with their 5 Chinese-built MD-83s (ex-TWA).
The Detroit Pistons new bird is also Chinese built.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 7671 posts, RR: 8 Reply 81, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13371 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 55): Delta uses a huge 757 fleet for longer flights.
Delta does alot of Transcons with 737s. IIRC alot(most of) CVG and JFKs Tcons are ran on 737s. Plus Delta uses them alot to Latin America. (they do run some Tcons out of here but not alot, plus they run the 737 from SLC to the East coast which the M90 can't do IIRC the longest Delta could make work is DTW) Delta does more short haul with 757s than 737s.
Quoting Keesje (Reply 55): On how many routes would range disqualfy the MD90 and not the 738?
read above. A good bit out of the non-ATL hubs. (PLUS DL has ETOPS on the 737s something they wont have on the M90s.
The M90s will be used alot like the 88 is now, better yet just like the M88 is now. They will mostly be based in MSP and it can hit both coast and the 32S will be moved to SLC.
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 62): From what I've heard they will all be based at MSP, where they can reach anywhere in the lower 48, while some NW A320s will be moved to SLC. As of right now, however, they are all still based at SLC.
The last pilot bid opened a M89 base in MSP and an A32 base in SLC. How long it takes to open a base all such, I don't know but it is coming.
[quote=OB1504,reply=76][quote]
I believe the China M90s have some more heavy duity parts(IIRC landing gear is the biggy) which bring the cost/weight up
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
Dalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2249 posts, RR: 15 Reply 82, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13383 times:
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 78): Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
I think it is around a metre longer than the MD-80/88 ( IIRC the forward fuselage needed to be stretched to counter the weight of the heavier engines at the rear ) so I dont think that a conversion would be possible ... or at least , not easy .
The MD90 also uses a different electrical system. they replaced the the CSD engine mounted system with an airframe mounted system. It can be seen in this pic. The airduct just fwd of the C2 cargo door is the inlet.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 83, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12733 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 80):
Nope. Delta is removing the rear galley's to make room for additional seating
That's all well and good, but the MD-90 is still technically smaller.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 29 Reply 84, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12501 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 67): Actually, the MD-90s max capacity is 7 fewer than the A320 and 17 fewer than the 738. So yes, it is smaller.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 83): That's all well and good, but the MD-90 is still technically smaller.
In Delta configuration it will not be. That is ALL that matters.
DL757Md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1554 posts, RR: 20 Reply 85, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12102 times:
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 65): Okay, which of you Delta mechanics have been messing around with the CEO's wife?
If I find out who he is.....Why I oughta!!!!!!!
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 81): (PLUS DL has ETOPS on the 737s something they wont have on the M90s.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 86, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12038 times:
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 84):
In Delta configuration it will not be. That is ALL that matters.
That wasn't the original reason I made the comparison.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2191 posts, RR: 5 Reply 87, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11906 times:
Does anyone think the increase in -90s would partly be to replace the -50s which must be the smallest subfleet in the company?
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
A300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 438 posts, RR: 0 Reply 88, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11768 times:
I would think that the Chinese assembled aircraft could be parted out for spared considering that new MD-90s are not being built.
PeachAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 4 Reply 89, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10580 times:
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 78): completely different tail section and there are some flight deck differences as well I believe.
Not to mention the fact that there are small horiz stabilizers between the engine and fuselage!
Md80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2607 posts, RR: 11 Reply 90, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9030 times:
If someone could just design a nice replacement engine for the 80 fleets, and get it certified, B and A would then have something to really worry about.
Vctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 428 posts, RR: 0 Reply 91, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8480 times:
Quoting M404 (Reply 87): Does anyone think the increase in -90s would partly be to replace the -50s which must be the smallest subfleet in the company?
As I understand it, the increase in the -90s is to allow for some reduced capacity as well as indirectly replace DC-9-30s, DC-9-40s, the 5500 series 757-200s, and some CRJ-200s.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3329 posts, RR: 12 Reply 92, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8379 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 83): That's all well and good, but the MD-90 is still technically smaller.
Wow, who cares? The point you made about the MD-90 having fewer seats was wrong, period. Once the MD-90 gets refurbished it will seat the same amount of people as the 737-800 with comparable pitch and seat width.
Quoting Vctony (Reply 91): As I understand it, the increase in the -90s is to allow for some reduced capacity as well as indirectly replace DC-9-30s, DC-9-40s, the 5500 series 757-200s, and some CRJ-200s.
Word is that the 5500 series 757-200s aren't going anywhere for a while, and will be used to adjust capacity.
SeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3750 posts, RR: 4 Reply 93, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8359 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 55): range isn't that critical for narrowbodies.
A very European perspective. In the U.S., transcons are an essential element of all major carriers' networks. M80s, M90s, and 737 Classics can't fly them. 757s and most A32x and 737NG can fly them. That doesn't mean M90s are a bad investment, just that you have to have some transcon-capable narrowbodies to supplement them, and that those aircraft will need to be based in your coastal hubs.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1024 posts, RR: 5 Reply 94, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8327 times:
Quoting PeachAir (Reply 89): Not to mention the fact that there are small horiz stabilizers between the engine and fuselage!
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 78): completely different tail section and there are some flight deck differences as well I believe.
The tail is different, but not as different as it appears. The elevator is hydraulic on the -90, vs control tabs on the 88. The engine pylons on the 90 have pylon flaps, which only assist in stall recovery. The pylon flaps are not involved in normal pitch control.
There are a few flight deck differences but they are small. The differences training to take a normal MD88 pilot and check him/her out on the 90 is very short.
EMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 621 posts, RR: 0 Reply 95, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8258 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 63): It does and some of them will be retired in the not too distant future. With no clear replacement to buy new, it will be up to the 738/A320/MD90 to backfill.
I had also figured they would most likely be used to reduce capacity and replace the 5500 series NW 757s at some point in the future
Quoting N1120A (Reply 72):
That's all well and good, but both the 738 and A320 have more potential seating capacity. Delta's choice of configuration is a different thing and it pretty much just means the MD-90 will be more cramped.
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 80): Nope. Delta is removing the rear galley's to make room for additional seating
Also isn't DL going to a slimline seat in Y that will allow them to add more Y seating without taking seat pitch away?
Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
DLMD90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8236 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 80):
Nope. Delta is removing the rear galley's to make room for additional seating
Also isn't DL going to a slimline seat in Y that will allow them to add more Y seating without taking seat pitch away?
I'm really interested to see what the new pitch is going to be, I really hope they do not reduce any in the First cabin!!!
Dtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 893 posts, RR: 2 Reply 97, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8173 times:
Quoting EMB170 (Reply 95): Also isn't DL going to a slimline seat in Y that will allow them to add more Y seating without taking seat pitch away?
Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 96): I'm really interested to see what the new pitch is going to be, I really hope they do not reduce any in the First cabin!!!
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 98, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8087 times:
Quoting Vctony (Reply 91): As I understand it, the increase in the -90s is to allow for some reduced capacity as well as indirectly replace DC-9-30s, DC-9-40s, the 5500 series 757-200
all of which are NW aircraft.... so the size of the "DL" fleet will increase while the "NW" fleet will shrink.
The implications for NW's labor groups are enormous unless the representation issues are resolved.
Akelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1956 posts, RR: 8 Reply 99, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7598 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 41):
Too bad DL didn't pick up the ex-Air Aruba ones that were painted up for the failed re-start of Pro Air when they had the chance. Of course, they were more likely at that time to be trying to park theirs instead of picking more up. There were three MD-90s that were scrapped @ MZJ several years back.
I'm sure that DL got any parts that came out of the scrapping for pretty cheap!
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25729 posts, RR: 86 Reply 100, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7439 times:
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 92): The point you made about the MD-90 having fewer seats was wrong, period. Once the MD-90 gets refurbished it will seat the same amount of people as the 737-800 with comparable pitch and seat width.
That isn't the point I made. The original post I made, which was in response to Kessje's use of the extremely inaccurate A.net data sheets, was about the actual, physical capacity of the airplanes, not the way Delta plans to operate them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
AKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1956 posts, RR: 8 Reply 101, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7228 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77): AA passengers don't seem to have a problem with their 5 Chinese-built MD-83s (ex-TWA).
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77): Sprit also operated several Chinese-built MD-80s at one time.
Quoting Trex8 (Reply 79): some of those Chinese assembled MD80s have been in service with US airlines- Spirit and American - for years
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 80): The Detroit Pistons new bird is also Chinese built.
So again, does anyeone know why DL doesn't want the two Chinese built MD-90s?
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2585 posts, RR: 2 Reply 102, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7190 times:
How about this.... Any educated guesses as to where/how these new birds will be used? Dare any of us in neglected markets like GSP hope that we'll see mainline DL any time soon?
Looking for more & better service at my home airport.
DiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1107 posts, RR: 3 Reply 103, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7111 times:
Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 101): So again, does anyeone know why DL doesn't want the two Chinese built MD-90s?
At this point, its just speculation. I've seen it stated a couple of different places. Some of it may have to do with a difference in weights of the planes. I'd imagine they'll buy them, and use them as spares. But, I really have no clue as to if they get them or not. Just speculation
Nwa757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 293 posts, RR: 2 Reply 104, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7064 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 98): the size of the "DL" fleet will increase while the "NW" fleet will shrink.
The implications for NW's labor groups are enormous
Not really. Effective May 1, the flight attendants on both sides will be qualified on all aircraft of the combined fleet. While the crews may not be mixed we can work each others respective premerger aircraft. PMNW crews will be staffing the 764s out of MSP to CDG and LHR, PMNW will be staffing 777s out of DTW and PMDL crews will be staffing A330s and 744s out of ATL and JFK, for example. We will also staff domestic aircraft from both sides. The loss of the DC-9-30/40 in Oct 2010 will have a minimal impact on staffing levels from the PMNW side. Utilization of the DC-9-50/MD88/90/A320/19 will increase to pick up the slack. Pilots are already able to bid any aircraft in the combined fleet except those that are fenced off.
Does anyone know when the 757-5500s will be leaving the fleet?
DUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6864 times:
Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 94): There are a few flight deck differences but they are small. The differences training to take a normal MD88 pilot and check him/her out on the 90 is very short.
Understood, however I believe we were looking at the differences between the MD-88 and the MD-90 in terms of converting an 88 to a 90 and how far fetched that idea is.
As far as the 88 being similar to the 90 as far as a check out, I agree they are very close. Thats why I think its a great move to acquire more MD-90's it just makes sense.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 107, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6847 times:
Quoting Nwa757300 (Reply 104): Not really. Effective May 1, the flight attendants on both sides will be qualified on all aircraft of the combined fleet.
The pilots are not an issue since they are one group and have one contract.
But there is no movement from DL on relaxing any of the divisions that exist between DL and NW ground based employees other than in the hubs.
It is far from certain what DL intends to do but they have said they intend to have the representation issues resolved this year.
I personally think DL can live with unions given that employee costs in aggregate are similar between DL and NW but there may well be differences between specific work groups. I suspect there is a greater cost difference between DL and NW ground based employees.
DL knows what cards they hold to resolve the representation issues and it is not at all unreasonable to think that the changes in the fleet composition between DL and NW will play ito pushing for resolution.
AKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1956 posts, RR: 8 Reply 108, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6345 times:
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 102): How about this.... Any educated guesses as to where/how these new birds will be used? Dare any of us in neglected markets like GSP hope that we'll see mainline DL any time soon?
They will be mostly based out of MSP where they can hit both coasts easily. You never know, if DL has a GSP-MSP flight you might see a M90!
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6227 posts, RR: 32 Reply 109, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5877 times:
Here is a public acknowledgement in the media about the additional MD-90's. Its not an official press release, but its in the AJC and quotes DL officials:
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 62): From what I've heard they will all be based at MSP, where they can reach anywhere in the lower 48, while some NW A320s will be moved to SLC. As of right now, however, they are all still based at SLC.
Not ALL MD-90's will be based in MSP, some will but will still fly patterns that bring them through other hubs.
Expect to see MD-90's on routes like MSP - DEN, SLC, MKE, DTW, GEG, PDX, MCI, ATL etc.
Same with the A320, they aren't ALL going to SLC, some will be, and will also be flown in patterns to/through other hubs. (DTW-SLC is flown with A319/A320's today) Keep in mind the A319/A320 fleet is ~150 aircraft.
Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 64): Delta will have more 757s than routes that require the legs/performance even after DL retires all the NW 5500 series 757s.
They have a long term problem addressing trans-cons and high capacity short haul routes (as does any other US operator), but this has nothing to do with the MD90 acquisions.
They have plenty of capable aircraft in this range DC-9-50, 73G, 738, A319, A320, MD-88, MD-90, 757. The combination, characteristics, ownership type, and age of each fleet gives them the ability and flexibility to do many different things.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 81): The last pilot bid opened a M89 base in MSP and an A32 base in SLC. How long it takes to open a base all such, I don't know but it is coming.
Supposedly for the June schedule.
Quoting M404 (Reply 87): Does anyone think the increase in -90s would partly be to replace the -50s which must be the smallest subfleet in the company?
No. The DC-9-50's are planned to be around until at least 2013. They are significantly younger than the -30/40's and still have a lot of cycles left. With 34 a/c they still have a decent sized fleet. They are to get wifi installed this year.
Quoting Vctony (Reply 91): As I understand it, the increase in the -90s is to allow for some reduced capacity as well as indirectly replace DC-9-30s, DC-9-40s, the 5500 series 757-200s, and some CRJ-200s.
Primarily the DC-9-30/40, CRJ-200, and likely the Mesa ERJ's
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 92): Word is that the 5500 series 757-200s aren't going anywhere for a while, and will be used to adjust capacity.
Quoting Nwa757300 (Reply 104): Not really. Effective May 1, the flight attendants on both sides will be qualified on all aircraft of the combined fleet. While the crews may not be mixed we can work each others respective premerger aircraft. PMNW crews will be staffing the 764s out of MSP to CDG and LHR, PMNW will be staffing 777s out of DTW and PMDL crews will be staffing A330s and 744s out of ATL and JFK, for example. We will also staff domestic aircraft from both sides. The loss of the DC-9-30/40 in Oct 2010 will have a minimal impact on staffing levels from the PMNW side. Utilization of the DC-9-50/MD88/90/A320/19 will increase to pick up the slack. Pilots are already able to bid any aircraft in the combined fleet except those that are fenced off.
Does anyone know when the 757-5500s will be leaving the fleet?
Correct.
Right now the only planned retirements are the DC-9-30 and -40's after the summer schedule. That is approximately 30 aircraft. Not sure of the exact number of 30's in service currently as a few have gone in and been pulled out of the desert in the past few months ~25 I believe, and there are 7 -40's in service.
In my opinion, if traffic picks up they will likely keep a few of the -30's around a little longer that aren't up against any maintenance checks and/or cycle limitations since they are essentially the same fleet type as the -50's.
This capacity is going to be offset as mentioned by increasing utilization of other fleet types. There is slack in the DC-9-50, A319/A320, and MD-88 fleet to increase flying there as mentioned. The CR9, E-170/175 fleets are completely max'ed out.
There are no immediate plans to remove all of the 5500s from service in 2010. The original thinking was that they might and that was planned before anyone saw any light at the end of the tunnel with the economy over the past 18 months. Right now they are planning to keep them in service as variable capacity (similar to how the DC-9 fleet is used today). Some may be parked later in the year. There are no plans to do anything with the fleet right now. They'll primarily use them to LAS, PHX, MCO, TPA, FLL leisure markets for the time being. If anything changes in terms of capacity needs, world events, etc. these aircraft will be quickly parked.
Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 108): They will be mostly based out of MSP where they can hit both coasts easily. You never know, if DL has a GSP-MSP flight you might see a M90!
Yeah right. They won't fly that route considering it overflies ATL, DTW, and MEM and would be complete overkill for such a route. Long and thin -> very costly and not likely very profitable.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 5562 posts, RR: 58 Reply 110, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5625 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 109): There are no immediate plans to remove all of the 5500s from service in 2010. The original thinking was that they might and that was planned before anyone saw any light at the end of the tunnel with the economy over the past 18 months. Right now they are planning to keep them in service as variable capacity (similar to how the DC-9 fleet is used today). Some may be parked later in the year. There are no plans to do anything with the fleet right now.
So will they start to repaint these aircraft soon ? Makes sense to paint them if they are staying around for a longer time.
N7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1393 posts, RR: 13 Reply 111, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5370 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 109): There are no immediate plans to remove all of the 5500s from service in 2010.
Delta pilots still aren't sure - at the least the ones I communicate with.
If the 757-251 5500 is truly going to stay on then Delta has to paint them and at least do something to the interiors! The interiors on the 5500's are the worst in the system - far worse than any DC-9 flying. They are essentially the same interior delivered in the 80's sans the NWA logo on the bulkheads.
Once we see a 5500 flying around in new paint or with some work done on the inside, then I guess we'll know.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2585 posts, RR: 2 Reply 112, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5247 times:
Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 108): You never know, if DL has a GSP-MSP flight you might see a M90!
Don't make a grown man cry! We used to have on again, off again CR2 service from MSP until fuel prices spiked, then the economy tanked. Don't expect to see MSP flights from GSP, let alone on M90's anytime soon!
Looking for more & better service at my home airport.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6227 posts, RR: 32 Reply 113, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5150 times:
Right, because they have definetely decided what they are going to with them as things have changes. There are 3 primary factors at play the decision and remaining time in service for the 5500's
1) The number of MD-90s being acquired and the timetable for getting them integrated into the fleet.
2) The capacity guidance and projections for the remainder of 2010 and into 2011
3) The ability to redeploy and retrain pilots onto different equipment types with the retirement of the DC-9-30/40's and potentially the 5500's, along with new bases for the other fleet types. There is only so much capacity to get crews through training on another aircraft.
Two secondary factors are also at play:
1) The pending approval of the DL-US LGA slot swap, and the reallocation of equipment into LGA this spring and summer. They aren't going to be needing additional 757s most likely, but it will depend how other fleet types get redeployed, where they come from, and what equipment will backfill those routes.
2) The JAL bankruptcy situation - whether they join Skyteam, but primarily if there any aircraft transactions involved. There is speculation out there that DL may acquire their MD-90's, and potentially some of their 744's
In short the 5500's will at least be around through 2010 though. They will be needed this spring and summer.
Atpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 114, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4878 times:
Hi!
Read they may get a bunch from JAL.
cliff
KDFW
TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
COEWR2587 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2 Reply 115, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4735 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter): Delta has purchased 9 more MD-90's from China Eastern Airlines
Uh, welcome to 2010, lets get rid of these junkers.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 7671 posts, RR: 8 Reply 117, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4680 times:
Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 109): Not ALL MD-90's will be based in MSP, some will but will still fly patterns that bring them through other hubs.
right, they fly routes from Atlanta now.
Expect to see MD-90's on routes like MSP - DEN, SLC, MKE, DTW, GEG, PDX, MCI, ATL etc.
Same with the A320, they aren't ALL going to SLC, some will be, and will also be flown in patterns to/through other hubs. (DTW-SLC is flown with A319/A320's today) Keep in mind the A319/A320 fleet is ~150 aircraft.
right, DL will still have a M89 base in CVG also. The 320 base in MSP will stay, but i can't remeber if Delta closed the M89 base in SLC.(note M89=88/90 pilot base)
Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 113): 2) The JAL bankruptcy situation - whether they join Skyteam, but primarily if there any aircraft transactions involved. There is speculation out there that DL may acquire their MD-90's, and potentially some of their 744's
Question for you PSU, If(big if) DL goes after some of the JL 747s what do you think will happen to the 451s at Delta? The JL birds have GEs and the NWs have PWs. So does Delta go with a mix fleet or park the 451s and replace them with the JL birds(JL has 28 744s so DL could park all 16 451s and replace them plus grow the fleet.)
Quoting COEWR2587 (Reply 115): Uh, welcome to 2010, lets get rid of these junkers.
So if we are going to dump these "junkers" them we need to dump all the A320 and 737NG aircraft world wide. This (the M90) is in the same class as the 320 and NG, the only thing that puts them a part is A) range, M90s cant do coast to coast B) M90s aren't being made because MD is gone, and why would Boeing sell a plane that is alot like the 737NG?
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
USTraveler From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 8 posts, RR: 0 Reply 118, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4616 times:
For Delta, it's a great plane for many reasons. They are already in the fleet with trained pilots, mechanics, and ground crew. There is less wing to carry around for shorter missions. They are getting them cheap. Anyone know the prices? And I know they don't have the apparent avionics/electrical issues that supposedly plagued some early models. This aircraft is supported by Boeing just as they support their 737. By now this is a mature aircraft that could last forever.
I've only heard positive comments about the ride on this bird. It's very quiet with the unique 2x3 seating. So what if there's no ptv at your seat? Umm, if you really fly/have flown a lot you know what I mean.
As an aircraft/airline enthusiast, I hope to see a variety of aircraft taking to the skies today and in the future. Living in the United States, I will be lucky to see some of these planes come back stateside. A variety of aircraft in the sky sure makes an exciting day!
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2443 posts, RR: 47 Reply 119, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4573 times:
Quoting COEWR2587 (Reply 115): Quoting Burnsie28 (Thread starter):
Delta has purchased 9 more MD-90's from China Eastern Airlines
Uh, welcome to 2010, lets get rid of these junkers.
Please feel free to provide the analysis behind your statement.
They are some of the newest MD aircraft built, younger than many other aircraft in the DL fleet, have an extremely low CASM, and can reach both coasts from MSP; all this at a fraction of the cost of a new 737 or A-320.
Again, please feel free to explain how these are "junkers" when the NW DC-9's are still posting extraordinary reliability rates at 40 years old.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6227 posts, RR: 32 Reply 120, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4490 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 117): Question for you PSU, If(big if) DL goes after some of the JL 747s what do you think will happen to the 451s at Delta? The JL birds have GEs and the NWs have PWs. So does Delta go with a mix fleet or park the 451s and replace them with the JL birds(JL has 28 744s so DL could park all 16 451s and replace them plus grow the fleet.)
Who knows the implications of a JAL Skyteam hook-up, and the disposal of their 744 fleet.
For now the JAL sounds like the classic pilot rumor mill, where one airline is dumping a fleet type that another airline is currently operating. The JAL MD-90s are must more plasuble.
The big question is what does a JAL in Skyteam, without their 744s mean in terms of new routes to/from/in Asia to be flown by DL. DL doesn't need anymore 744s as-is, but crazier things have happened.
Not plausible,more like a given. R A has stated that regardless of what happens with JAL, the 16 strong JAL MD-90 fleet is coming to Delta, most likely on a sale/leaseback deal.
Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 120): The big question is what does a JAL in Skyteam, without their 744s mean in terms of new routes to/from/in Asia to be flown by DL. DL doesn't need anymore 744s as-is, but crazier things have happened.
There's been rumors of up to four addtional 744's joining the fleet for a while. If it's true, my bet is on the four SIA PW powered 744's that are leaving the fleet this year.
Delta also has another A330 sim(ex-Monarch) on the way to NATCO. There's also rumors of more A330's on the way, between 5 and 15.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 7671 posts, RR: 8 Reply 122, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4397 times:
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 121): Delta also has applied for DTW-SAO
as in GRU? I have heard this but have yet to see anything with the DOT. Unless its some kind of back room deal(like the US deal) I don't see how Delta will be able to get this. No new rights to GRU are coming up anytime soon and if Delta wanted to move flights(JFK-GRU would be the one i would think) they would have to ask and I would expect at least AA to want it to be a re-bid. (Meaning its not 100% they get it and they may end up losing all the rights from JFK and get nothing)
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6093 posts, RR: 38 Reply 123, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4392 times:
Quoting USTraveler (Reply 118): I've only heard positive comments about the ride on this bird. It's very quiet with the unique 2x3 seating. So what if there's no ptv at your seat? Umm, if you really fly/have flown a lot you know what I mean.
Funny thing is, Delta plans to add PTV's to the MD-90 fleet.
CokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 979 posts, RR: 10 Reply 124, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 120): For now the JAL sounds like the classic pilot rumor mill, where one airline is dumping a fleet type that another airline is currently operating. The JAL MD-90s are must more plasuble.
Not a rumor. R.A stated in his last conferece call of Delta's desire to aquire these a/c
from JAL.
MD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2607 posts, RR: 11 Reply 125, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4225 times:
Quoting COEWR2587 (Reply 115): Uh, welcome to 2010, lets get rid of these junkers.
Enough people have called you on this one, so I'll let it rest. Ask again when it's 2030, maybe then they will be junkers.
A300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 438 posts, RR: 0 Reply 127, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4038 times:
I have a question for those who are intimately familiar about the MD-90 cockpit: could the glass cockpits of Saudi Arabian Airlines aircraft be made to simulate those of the regular types? This has been done with some 737NGs.
Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 126): So if DL already has its hands on the JAL MD90s, all that remains for further acquisitions
Since Hello has sold some of its MD-90s to Delta already, I suppose they are likely to the same with the rest. Lion Airlines are getting lots of new B737-900's. Perhaps they would want to dispose of their small fleet of MD-90s. That said, I am not sure that DL would necessarily want the latter. Indonesia's regulatory bodies have had lots of issue. At one time all the airlines based in Indonesia were banned from the EU.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6227 posts, RR: 32 Reply 128, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3878 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 122): as in GRU? I have heard this but have yet to see anything with the DOT. Unless its some kind of back room deal(like the US deal) I don't see how Delta will be able to get this.
Supposedly the pilot group was informed that DL was applying (or applied) for DTW-GRU. Whether or not this actually happened - who knows. It has not been publically announced nor as you said, has anything shown up as a docket with the DOT. Who knows.
I question the viability of this route, and wonder what aircraft they would use. It sure seems like an A332 or 763 is about the only thing feasible. Again, who knows, crazier things have happened.
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 121): There's been rumors of up to four addtional 744's joining the fleet for a while. If it's true, my bet is on the four SIA PW powered 744's that are leaving the fleet this year.
Delta also has another A330 sim(ex-Monarch) on the way to NATCO. There's also rumors of more A330's on the way, between 5 and 15.
Delta also has applied for DTW-SAO
Thats an awful lot of new widebody aircraft. While second-hand, and cheaper than new, that is still a significant capital outlay. I'm really skeptical of DL needing more 744's. A330's seem plausable -> but from where? I can't see both more A330's and 744's, considering there is still that 787 order lingering out there.
Again, the industry has a habit of doing the unexpected. With the potential powershift of JAL to Skyteam and/or different Asia options, and/or the ability to retire/replace the oldest 757/767/744 aircraft with newer lift MD-90/A330/744 who knows.
As always in this industry, until you see it at the gate, scheduled on a revenue flight with passengers, you can't always believe it.
I could write a novel on the volume of rumors in the industry. I probably accidently started a few over drinks some night with some of my fellow ramper or pilot buddies back in the day that have taken on a life of their own.
Quoting A300 (Reply 127): Since Hello has sold some of its MD-90s to Delta already, I suppose they are likely to the same with the rest. Lion Airlines are getting lots of new B737-900's. Perhaps they would want to dispose of their small fleet of MD-90s. That said, I am not sure that DL would necessarily want the latter. Indonesia's regulatory bodies have had lots of issue. At one time all the airlines based in Indonesia were banned from the EU.
DL doesn't need every single MD-90 out there. Sure glass cockpits are possible, but at a price. The MD-90's are going to be replacement capacity for the pending DC-9 30/40 and potentially 757 5500 retirements.
LMP737 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 4459 posts, RR: 27 Reply 129, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3721 times:
Quoting A300 (Reply 127): I have a question for those who are intimately familiar about the MD-90 cockpit: could the glass cockpits of Saudi Arabian Airlines aircraft be made to simulate those of the regular types? This has been done with some 737NGs.
I guess you could. However unlike the 737 the overhead panel on the Saudi MD-90 is completly different from other MD-90's. Add to that the Saudi MD-90 uses the Honeywell VIA system.
Jetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (2 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3461 times:
I wonder if now Boeing is second guessing killing the 717 program,,
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