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AA's Plan For The Future?  
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 16983 times:

Now what? JAL looks to be a goner. JFK isn't what it used to be. Asia on AA metal is practically non-existent. Unless you live in Dallas or Miami, what's your incentive to fly AA vs. DL?

When will AA start winning again? I think the same question could be asked of UA, but at least they're forging ahead with CO.

204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 16980 times:



Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):
When will AA start winning again?

I dont think its a question of when its more of a question can they get the house in order and forge ahead. There is plenty off room for DL UA/co and AA. AA really needs to focus on the soft product, IE inflight comfort, service etc also being a little more daring with partners for its alliance and to codeshare with. AA has the base of a great carrier and is it just needs to realize it, it can no longer play the safe route.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 16974 times:

I think the first thing AA needs to do is sit down with APA and sort out the pilot situation. This is also going to require APA to stop with their militant ways and start actually coming up with solutions that help them and the company. You are seeing this at United finally with Wendy Morse taking over ALPA there.

I don't agree with you that JFK isn't what it used to be. JFK is thriving and one of AA's most important cities, hence the reason for the new Terminal 8. Its not quite the level of a DL, but AA has ORD and DFW to take care of that.

And don't forget that AA is the number 1 carrier to Latin America. No other carrier comes close to their presence down there.

AA will be fine. The JAL thing was bad news, but in the grand scheme of things it only affects yields on half a dozen flights a day. Thats not a lot.


User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 16912 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 2):
I think the first thing AA needs to do is sit down with APA and sort out the pilot situation. This is also going to require APA to stop with their militant ways and start actually coming up with solutions that help them and the company. You are seeing this at United finally with Wendy Morse taking over ALPA there.

I don't agree with you that JFK isn't what it used to be. JFK is thriving and one of AA's most important cities, hence the reason for the new Terminal 8. Its not quite the level of a DL, but AA has ORD and DFW to take care of that.

And don't forget that AA is the number 1 carrier to Latin America. No other carrier comes close to their presence down there.

AA will be fine. The JAL thing was bad news, but in the grand scheme of things it only affects yields on half a dozen flights a day. Thats not a lot.

Well Put...once the Pilot issues are resolved and a profitable deal on who will fly any/all 75-100 seat aircraft , then AA can really get the ball rolling. There are many on here with better insight, but, I'd say AA could use 60-75 E175/190 or equivilant type on many routes adding additional seats where needed and reducing capacity on others to better match daily/ or seasonal demand. Making every dollar of fixed costs and every dollar of non-fixed (fuel/labor in this example) work harder by transporting as many pax as possible, PROFITABLY.

The additional business strengthens almost all other flights where the pax makes a connection.

And, who knows, maybe DOJ will make DL divest of a few slots to have such a deal with JAL..making NRT a bit more competitive.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 16815 times:



Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):
Now what? JAL looks to be a goner. JFK isn't what it used to be. Asia on AA metal is practically non-existent. Unless you live in Dallas or Miami, what's your incentive to fly AA vs. DL?

It's not quite as dire as you want to paint it.

Beyond Dallas/Fort Worth and Miami which, yes, are today the engines driving the entire AA system, the global AA network is still an extremely strong franchise built around core markets that serve some of the most important business centers on earth.

I'm glad that AA is showing a stronger commitment to growth in Chicago. Even if most of that growth is from Eagle, and increasing frequency through down-gauging from mainline to Eagle in some markets, it is still growth nonetheless. AA still has a very strong following in Chicago and a massive presence in some of the market's largest local markets.

New York is still one of the singles most important nodes in the entire AA system. Built on the strength of its presence in most of the region's largest and most important local markets, AA has a strong base from which to grow should they choose. Slots are a challenge at JFK and LaGuardia, but a little creativity can largely solve that problem. The JFK terminal is fantastic - the best at the airport - and lightyears ahead of the terminal used by Delta. And on the subject of Delta - while they are growing constantly left and right at JFK (and soon LaGuardia), I haven't yet been convinced that all of this growth will be sustainably profitable. Delta is banking on the concept of the S-curve, which theorizes that an airline with a larger proportion of capacity in a market will tend to derive a higher-than-proportional share of the revenue in that market. That theory largely failed during the late 1990s, when low fare airlines shot to death any allusions of a direct correlation between higher capacity and higher profits. We'll see if Delta can do it this time around.

Los Angeles, too, is another strong market where AA has a massive local presence upon which to continue to grow. While United+United Express is still the larger brand at LAX, AA mainline is actually the largest single airline at LAX, and derives a very competitive revenue share there. AA is growing slightly at LAX this year, which is a good start, but they need to grow more.

These five markets - Dallas/Fort Worth, Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles - are the core hubs that AA is now identifying as their cornerstone markets. That's good - that is precisely the construct they should be working around, and these are precisely the five markets they should be focusing intently on. If AA can hold DFW and MIA, defend ORD, and grow NYC/LAX, they (along with oneworld) can create a highly competitive global network that will do just fine up against Delta or United-Continental.

Quoting Seatback (Thread starter):
When will AA start winning again?

It depends on what you mean by "winning." AA has remained solvent, and has built up a massive cash cushion. The company is taking delivery of new airplanes and has some of the strongest hubs in the United States.

Now, it's true, they are not growing left and right and they are being much more conservative on capacity. But, again, I am not yet convinced that - long-term - the strategy being employed by some other U.S. carriers of growing continually left and right will be a viable one over time. We'll see.

Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that everything at AA is rosy. It's not. They've made some very stupid mistakes, and in some places they have been way too conservative and thus missed out on what I believe could have been some very lucrative opportunities.

But, again, it's also not as bad as you say. It's somewhere in between.

If I were AA, I would focus on the following:

Hubs

. DFW - keep doing what they're doing, adding flights were viable and using Eagle to add more and more targeted growth in new, smaller markets to feed the growing hub; utilize 70-seaters to add new, longer-range Eagle markets (BOI, BFL, YEG, maybe even BIL or GEG)
. ORD - defend AA's presence in key business markets (I'm thinking EWR, PHL, DCA, etc.) and try to begin transitioning more capacity back to mainline when viable; targeted international growth to possibly include DXB and/or BOM (see "Fleet" below)
. MIA - grow, grow, grow; with the new terminal almost finished (finally), AA has so many opportunities for growth it makes my head spin - SAN, SNA, SEA, MCI, PVD, etc. plus tons of places in Latin America and even Africa (ACC, LOS, and definitely JNB); also use 70-seaters to grow into thinner Northeast markets nonstop from MIA (HPN, BUF, YOW, etc.)
. NYC - add a few key O&D business markets (ATL, MCI) out of LGA, and continue to grow at JFK with international (AMS, FRA, BUD, EDI, BHX, ARN), a bit of additional targeted Caribbean (ANU, GEO, GCM, KIN, POS), and connecting domestic (DEN, PHX, SNA, etc.)
. LAX - bolster AA's already-strong leadership position on transcons (PHL, BOS #4, and maybe even BDL again); grow Eagle into select new markets to bolster connections (PHX, TUS, ABQ, etc.); and tighten connections with partners

. Build a strategy for growth in Asia, built around DFW, ORD, and LAX - I'm thinking nonstops from ORD to HKG continuing to SIN, DFW to ICN, PVG, and SYD and HKG (see "Fleet" below), and possibly a stronger presence in LAX-Asia

. Beyond the focus on the five "core" markets above, AA should also institutionalize a view of the "Tier 2" markets right below those 5 cores; these "Tier 2" markets should also get lots of sales/marketing focus; these "Tier 2" markets should be: Boston, St. Louis, San Francisco/Bay Area, Washington DC

Alliances

. With AA-BA-IB ATI likely around the corner, get serious about (finally) turning Heathrow into a bigger U.S.-Europe hub, by using 75Ls to create new market opportunities with nonstops from LHR to, among others, BDL, DTW, PIT, and maybe even CLE; also use these 75Ls to link MAD with perhaps BOS and IAD
. Strengthen the relationship with Alaska/Horizon - not sure what form this strengthening should take, but I think AA should deepen that relationship even more than it already is

Fleet

. Get a small subfleet of 8-10 777LRs on short-term leases until the 787s arrive, and use these aircraft on longer missions including DFW-HKG, DFW-SYD, MIA-JNB, and maybe ORD-BOM
. International F/J cabin - rumors are that the early stages of this are already in the works; AA should work on their next generation international premium cabin concept with a 'suite'-like F cabin (probably reduced in size) and an upgraded international J cabin
. Focus on quality - just bite the bullet and put PTVs on every plane, every seat, or at the very least get wifi on every plane ASAP (although, yes, I do agree that eventually AA will probably be forced by competitive pressures to put PTVs at every seat)

All of the above will take time and money, but everything will, and since this is an aspirational post in an online discussion forum, I'll shoot for the stars with my suggestions!  Smile


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16650 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
It's not quite as dire as you want to paint it.

As a non-American your analysis seems to me to be well thought through, detailed and sound. Where I would differ is on the best way for AA to exploit the potential ATI with BA and IB.

On the assumption that operational costs are always likely to be lower on flights to or from a hub does the operation of 752s from the likes of LHR to DTW and PIT make sense? These are routes that, with ATI, BA might reopen to operate with an AA code share. On the other hand new AA flights with BA code shares not just from JFK but possibly from AA hubs like MIA, ORD and even LAX to the likes of EDI and BHX and even BRS and NCL might well prove very viable with BA sales support this side of the pond.

Recognising that BA has recently taken over all of IB's old LHR-BCN services (as BCN is not an IB hub) there may be opportunities for AA to fly between its hubs and and this important destination in cooperation with IB. IB code shares on AA metal on flights between BCN and MIA, DFW, LAX and ORD might all prove very viable with the significant Hispanic populations at the western end of some of these routes.

Finally I am not sure if LCY could play some role for AA if ATI with BA is obtained. Here I am thinking of Eagle flights into JFK and a code share on the BA JFK-LCY flights. Come to that what about EWR? I do not know how big or small AA's presence is there, but with ATI there may be opportunities for AA to exploit the two / three times daily BA EWR-LHR flights.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16609 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
These five markets - Dallas/Fort Worth, Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles - are the core hubs that AA is now identifying as their cornerstone markets. That's good - that is precisely the construct they should be working around, and these are precisely the five markets they should be focusing intently on. If AA can hold DFW and MIA, defend ORD, and grow NYC/LAX, they (along with oneworld) can create a highly competitive global network that will do just fine up against Delta or United-Continental.

Five fantastic markets, for sure. AA's big problem is that is only owns two of them.

DFW and MIA are the clear winners for AA. Everything else, while great on paper, suffers due to competition. Its the same for all carriers in their non-fortress hubs. UA suffers pretty much everywhere but IAD because of it.

I think people would be shocked to learn that DL is far more successful at DTW and MSP than UA or AA are at ORD. Delta dealt with this phenomenon at at DFW.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16597 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
On the assumption that operational costs are always likely to be lower on flights to or from a hub does the operation of 752s from the likes of LHR to DTW and PIT make sense? These are routes that, with ATI, BA might reopen to operate with an AA code share.

Yes, operation of 75Ls in these markets does make sense. And no, I don't believe BA would reopen them with its own metal.

The reason? These markets cannot support BA 767s - which is the smaller trans-Atlantic airplane BA has these days. They can support 182-seat AA 757s. I think BDL, PIT and DTW make sense to be the first markets served, but beyond them, I could see BWI transitioning to an AA 757 along with perhaps - far-off, and out-of-the-box, I know - maybe even markets like CMH, IND or even CLE.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
On the other hand new AA flights with BA code shares not just from JFK but possibly from AA hubs like MIA, ORD and even LAX to the likes of EDI and BHX and even BRS and NCL might well prove very viable with BA sales support this side of the pond.

Absolutely agree.

One of the big focus areas for AA/BA if/when they get antitrust immunity should be turning JFK into a U.S.-U.K. hub for the regions. Give those places like EDI, GLA, NCL, etc. another option to connect if they want to avoid the h*ll that is LHR. And, with ATI, BA will not mind sharing those traffic flows with AA since they'll be splitting the revenue.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
Recognising that BA has recently taken over all of IB's old LHR-BCN services (as BCN is not an IB hub) there may be opportunities for AA to fly between its hubs and and this important destination in cooperation with IB. IB code shares on AA metal on flights between BCN and MIA, DFW, LAX and ORD might all prove very viable with the significant Hispanic populations at the western end of some of these routes.

Beyond the nonstop to JFK, the only other opportunity I see for BCN-U.S. is MIA. And I think it's a really strong opportunity - one that AA should not pass up. A daily 763 would do fantastic, I predict.

Overall, though, I think the focus of AA and IB in a post-ATI world sould be on making MAD into a viable U.S.-Europe connecting point by bolstering the existing nonstops to JFK, MIA, ORD and DFW, solidifying BOS and IAD by using smaller, more right-sized AA 75Ls, and maybe - just maybe - adding back a nonstop to LAX (though I wouldn't hold my breath).

As I've said here on A.net before, after having experienced a MAD connecting first-hand, I can honestly say it is my favorite place that I've ever connected before in Europe, and I would happily do it again if given the opportunity and fares being roughly equal. I think that - long-term, of the next 10-20 years - MAD has the potential to become a very sizeable U.S.-Europe connecting hub, particularly for Southern Europe - perhaps not on par with LHR, CDG or FRA in terms of size/capacity, but not far.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
Finally I am not sure if LCY could play some role for AA if ATI with BA is obtained. Here I am thinking of Eagle flights into JFK and a code share on the BA JFK-LCY flights.

If/when AA-BA get antitrust immunity, I fully expect that AA will codeshare on BA's JFK-LCY flights. I can't see why not.

Without ATI, of course, there is no way on earth that AA would ever codeshare on that route because it would pull away what premium business traffic AA already had in the New York-London market if they were given the option of ultra-close-in, ultra-convenient LCY plus the ability to earn AAdvantage miles. However, with ATI, much like with the JFK-regions flying, AA will be splitting the revenue on JFK-LCY anyway, so they would probably codeshare on it.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16574 times:

I think we also need to consider the current AA culture which has become their own worse enemy. We have a risk guy at the helm, so "out of the box" thinking, aggressive expansion/product development and entering emerging markets doesn't fit in with the mindset. But beyond that, the employee relations have a long way to go beyond just contract negotiations. Add to this the fluctuating cost of oil and schizophrenic marketplace and they indeed have their hands full.

But aside from this, AA could very well build itself into something greater than they are today. There is no need to upset DL as the largest airline in the world etc. Honestly, when they held that title I doubt it really did much for the business. They still have a global brand. I agree with Commavia's assessment above in terms of fleet, markets, product etc.

Hopefully they will get their s**t together for the next relative economic rebound.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16575 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 6):
Five fantastic markets, for sure. AA's big problem is that is only owns two of them.

DFW and MIA are the clear winners for AA. Everything else, while great on paper, suffers due to competition. Its the same for all carriers in their non-fortress hubs. UA suffers pretty much everywhere but IAD because of it.

Well, obviously, but you don't have to "own" a market in order to make it a viable, sustainably profitable cornerstone of your network.

Look at New York: for all the P.R. and A.net euphoria, even after the JFK growth and USAirways LGA deal, Delta will still be smaller in the New York metro area than Continental, and still control less than one-quarter of the market. And yet New York is probably the singular most dynamic focus of DL management attention these days.

Let me be very clear on what I mean here: AA need not be the #1 airline in terms of capacity in any of these markets in order to be successful long-term. It wouldn't hurt, of course, but as you yourself say, you can't be #1 everywhere. All that AA needs to do is get more aggressive about maintaining a strong(er) presence in the places where its premium, local customers most want to travel. AA has done a reasonably good job of that in New York to date, but of course will have to do better there in the future in order to remain competitive. Same in Chicago - while UA has been and always will be the larger airline, AA is still quite competitive there because they do maintain a strong presence in the markets where travelers wost want/need to go. Same at LAX - UA is bigger overall, but AA has an extremely competitive schedule with lots of flights to the places where the local market generates the highest demand.


User currently offlineAquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16509 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Build a strategy for growth in Asia, built around DFW, ORD, and LAX - I'm thinking nonstops from ORD to HKG continuing to SIN, DFW to ICN, PVG, and SYD and HKG (see "Fleet" below), and possibly a stronger presence in LAX-Asia

I can see ORD - HKG, but doubt it'll go onward anywhere tho, better just to codeshare on CX

maybe try DFW-NRT-SIN or LAX-NRT-SIN or DFW-ICN-SIN

Will BKK be a good place for AA to look at?


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16482 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):
Well, obviously, but you don't have to "own" a market in order to make it a viable, sustainably profitable cornerstone of your network.

You don't have to, but it really helps. NYC is so big that it isn't quite the same. But, in general, being the #2 or #3 carrier in a market isn't a good thing in terms of profitability. It isn't for AA at ORD, and hasn't been for a long time.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16482 times:



Quoting AquariusHKG (Reply 10):
I can see ORD - HKG, but doubt it'll go onward anywhere tho, better just to codeshare on CX

Understood, although SIN is a huge local market - particularly with the types of customers (corporate, trade, finance, etc.) that AA tends to covet. If one is to have a meaningful presence in Asia - which AA presently does not have, particularly absent JAL - SIN is sort a "cornerstone" market right up there with NRT, HKG, and in my view also PVG and ICN.

Quoting AquariusHKG (Reply 10):
maybe try DFW-NRT-SIN or LAX-NRT-SIN or DFW-ICN-SIN

Thought about that, but personally think that if AA were to serve SIN 1-stop, HKG would be a more viable stopover point.

Quoting AquariusHKG (Reply 10):
Will BKK be a good place for AA to look at?

AA is a huge market, although it tends to be more leisure-oriented than, say, SIN. That's not to say there isn't business traffic there - there is. But, it is not nearly as business-oriented as is SIN, by comparison. And for a hypothetical 1-stop flight that long as it is, low-yielding BKK would not seem to me to be a particularly attractive market.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11969 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16465 times:

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 11):
NYC is so big that it isn't quite the same.

And Chicago and LAX are not sufficiently big? I disagree.

If we're talking about a smaller market - absolutely. DEN, for example, cannot support two strong carriers, let alone three, long-term. It's not sustainable.

New York absolutely can. In my view, so can Chicago, and so can the Los Angeles basin.

If New York is to be split four ways (Continental, Delta, JetBlue, and AA), I see no reason why Chicago can't be split three ways (United, AA, Southwest) and Los Angeles three ways (United, AA, Southwest).

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 11):
But, in general, being the #2 or #3 carrier in a market isn't a good thing in terms of profitability. It isn't for AA at ORD, and hasn't been for a long time.

Understood. There is always a difference between being #1 and being #2 or #3. But again - even while it may be less than ideal, it still doesn't mean it can't be viable. The AA franchise can be viable in Chicago long-term, just as AA in New York and L.A. can be viable long-term.



[Edited 2010-01-16 10:16:04 by commavia]

User currently offlineSeaMeFly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16392 times:

Joining the SkyTeam alliance? Big grin

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6730 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16336 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
And Chicago and LAX are not sufficiently big?

Chicago's barely half the size of NYC, so it's questionable if it can really support three hubs. Chicago also doesn't produce quite the same levels of premium traffic that NYC can which is a problem for UA/AA.

LAX is certainly big enough, but it's so fragmented that all legacies struggle...particularly since none of them have been able to really break into the international market. They each have a few token routes, but can't do much else.


Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
The AA franchise can be viable in Chicago long-term, just as AA in New York and L.A. can be viable long-term.

Maybe, but it's going to require AA to have a cost structure that is substantially lower and to offer a more competitive product. I'm not convinced AA is really dedicated to doing either.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16299 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
And Chicago and LAX are not sufficiently big? I disagree.

If we're talking about a smaller market - absolutely. DEN, for example, cannot support two strong carriers, let alone three, long-term. It's not sustainable.

New York absolutely can. In my view, so can Chicago, and so can the Los Angeles basin.

If New York is to be split four ways (Continental, Delta, JetBlue, and AA), I see no reason why Chicago can't be split three ways (United, AA, Southwest) and Los Angeles three ways (United, AA, Southwest).



Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
The AA franchise can be viable in Chicago long-term, just as AA in New York and L.A. can be viable long-term.

The problem is that AA ISN'T profitable in ORD. Not even close. Hell, UA isn't profitable in ORD anymore. Chicago is effectively split between three hub carriers when you include WN.

I'm not claiming that NYC is profitable for anyone other than CO and B6 (and barely so for B6). A huge driver in DL's growth there is to get to a scale where they can move corporate business and BECOME profitable. If they are successful, someone else loses. Could very well be AA. Certainly it has to hurt CO to a degree.

My point is that a valuable franchise and a profitable franchise are not always the same thing. NYC, CHI and LAX are very valuable for AA, but that doesn't make them profitable. I think we can all agree that MIA and DFW do at least reasonably well, yet AA is losing a LOT of money. Guess where those loses are coming from.

The cornerstones of AA's profitability are now DFW and MIA. The transcons and LHR used to be there as well, but those have diminished greatly, I think. AA won't give up on the other markets, and they shouldn't. They are strategic plays that position them for the future, just as DL didn't give up on JFK over the past decade despite tremendous loses.


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16226 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):

well put. As much as I loved connecting through STL since it was a breeze I think the decision to finally close up shop and beef up ORD by adding new cities as well as adding an F cabin to the CR7's has been a good start. DFW and MIA are clearly the breadwinners. Would like to see some more cities connected also to DFW and MIA (RAP to DFW was a nice surrpise this week). Would love to see the contract worked out to get more 75-100 seat aircraft. I know a AA/US combo is always bantied about on here from time to time. I would love to see CLT added as an AA hub to gain more strength on the eastern seaboard and to compete with DL at ATL.


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 607 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16220 times:
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AA must be putting together a strategic and tactical plan for the year 2014: when the Wright Amendment will be completely repealed at DAL. How will this affect AA's operations, loads and yields at DFW? AA left DAL for the time-being, but will we see them return in a few years?

What affect will WN - and their ability to fly to any domestic city in the U.S. from DAL - have on AA at DFW?

Commavia, your thoughts?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7807 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 16129 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I think we also need to consider the current AA culture which has become their own worse enemy

This statement is more true than most on here realize.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
Thought about that, but personally think that if AA were to serve SIN 1-stop, HKG would be a more viable stopover point.

Im going to respectfully disagree. CX already serves SIN through HKG and has their code on it. Meanwhile, unless AA starts both DFW and ORD-HKG, it does very little to solve their problem. NRT-SIN would be better, but AA would have to understand that it probably wouldnt be a profitable flight. Niether would HKG-SIN for that matter.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 16):
The cornerstones of AA's profitability are now DFW and MIA.

Without question.

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 18):
What affect will WN - and their ability to fly to any domestic city in the U.S. from DAL - have on AA at DFW?

It will have some effect, but it will be minimal. Look at HOU/IAH. WN can fly anywhere from there, but CO still get virtually all the high yielding traffic. DFW/DAL would look like that because:

1) WN has no premium classes
2) WN doesnt fly internationally

Even when WN started to fly from DAL-STL/MCI, AA didnt have a decrease in capacity. The effect on yields wasnt that great either.

The Metroplex is HUGE domestic marketplace. There is definately room for both.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 16096 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
On the other hand new AA flights with BA code shares not just from JFK but possibly from AA hubs like MIA, ORD and even LAX to the likes of EDI and BHX and even BRS and NCL might well prove very viable with BA sales support this side of the pond.

While I would like to see AA return to BHX and really hope they do at some point, I don't really see how any tie in with BA is really going to help them. As BA have given up on the UK regions and surrendered everything to FlyBe etc. then I doubt BA have much incentive to help market flights on AA via the regions when they have their shrine of LHR to protect and maintain (seemingly over anywhere or everything else!)

BA-AA will help both out of LHR and AA domestic in improved incentive for FF's to use OW if originating on BA. I don't have much opportunity to fly AA these days but from afar they seem to have lost their way a bit and need some new ideas.


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 16065 times:

IMO.... survival and growth is key...
AA was the biggest..
DL used to say they never wanted to be biggest.... just better..
The DL/NW merger made DL the biggest and not better judging from the fact that customers are disapointed with the service levels DL is now proviiding.
DL is now on a watch list for failure (motley fool) while AA (and no other airline) is not.
The airline industry viability has come to "Debt" levels and while both AA and DL have huge debt it will come to who the banks thinks is more viable.
And remember AA has never been bankrupt.
And.... NW jetside employees are still union... that is a big issue that need to be rectified. Can it be rectified?



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 16059 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Delta is banking on the concept of the S-curve, which theorizes that an airline with a larger proportion of capacity in a market will tend to derive a higher-than-proportional share of the revenue in that market. That theory largely failed during the late 1990s, when low fare airlines shot to death any allusions of a direct correlation between higher capacity and higher profits.

Given that new growth in JFK/LGA/EWR is not going to happen for anyone without acquiring slots, LFCs are not an issue in NYC other than what exists today which makes DL's growth plans reasonable and potentially profitable as they do gain market share and move into the markets that are not served.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
These five markets - Dallas/Fort Worth, Chicago, Miami, New York and Los Angeles - are the core hubs that AA is now identifying as their cornerstone markets

Expanding on Jetlanta's comments which are completely accurate, there are scores of spoke cities attached to these hubs where AA is now much lower in the ranking of carriers behind the larger DL plus UA and CO. AA really only dominates the revenue in a relative small number of major cities including DFW and MIA while its loss of relative position in dozens of smaller markets as well as the strength of CO/UA plus DL/NW in many larger markets does make AA highly vulnerable from a revenue perspective.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
. Build a strategy for growth in Asia, built around DFW, ORD, and LAX - I'm thinking nonstops from ORD to HKG continuing to SIN, DFW to ICN, PVG, and SYD and HKG (see "Fleet" below), and possibly a stronger presence in LAX-Asia

I would completely agree with acquiring some LRs in order to do long-range flying assuming an agreement can be reached with its unions.

What has been missed here is that AA's int'l network outside of Latin America is really focused on a very small number of cities. UA's transatlantic network has become quite diversified and with the addition of CO is quite extensive across the Atlantic. DL obviously is the dominant airline across the Atlantic and now the Pacific which would have happened on its own w/ DL's announced 2010 new routes but is guaranteed w/ the JAL revenue sharing. Meanwhile, AA has largely focused its TATL network on LHR which will connect with BA while other carriers have strong hub operations with their partners plus lots of hub overflights.

As a reminder, Latin America is the smallest aviation region in the world; AA is indeed more than twice the size of CO or DL but being king of a small hill is not a terribly noteworthy accomplishment.

AA does have a future but they must become laser focused on solving their labor issues so they can grow again and then invest in different type of aircraft and different growth strategies than they have used up to this point.

It is highly doubtful this can be done by the current AMR/AA mgmt who AA employees view as pretty close to public enemy #1.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5831 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 16014 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Get a small subfleet of 8-10 777LRs on short-term leases until the 787s arrive, and use these aircraft on longer missions including DFW-HKG, DFW-SYD, MIA-JNB, and maybe ORD-BOM

Better to buy them, if you think ULH is wise. 787-9s won't be able to fly those missions effectively (except maybe for MIA-JNB).

I think AA knows exactly what it's doing in ignoring the ULH money pit. If AA's very capable 772ERs (and 787-9s, which will be able to perform very similar missions to the 772ER fleet) can't fly the route, the route is too long to be profitable anyway.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7807 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 15652 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 23):

I think AA knows exactly what it's doing in ignoring the ULH money pit. If AA's very capable 772ERs (and 787-9s, which will be able to perform very similar missions to the 772ER fleet) can't fly the route, the route is too long to be profitable anyway.

DFW-HKG and MIA-JNB at least have some potential. Of course AA doesnt have the guts, so I dont ever expect them to become reality.

AA will never see greatness again until Arpey goes Im convencied.

I honestly think all that will happen is ORD-HKG and DFW-ICN. Then AA will sit back and see if it appeases their clients. If it does, it will end there because AA will do the minimum amount to maintain no consequence. If it doesnt, they will explore other opprotunities.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 DLMD90 : I find it interesting that once UA switches over to free domestic upgrades for Elites, AA will be the only US legacy airline charging gold and plat fo
26 Jfkgaylga : You guys talk about AA and NYC . . . I will point this out. A few years ago AA owned NYC-PR and NYC-DR. Now B6 owns those routes hands down. AA owned
27 Seatback : This is my point. What are they doing to keep the top ranking in the five markets (NYC, CHI, LAX, MIA and DFW?) We know MIA and DFW. But those two ma
28 Swmdal : Other than the CR Smith era, when have AA employees not viewed management as public enemy #1? When I worked there, everybody wanted to tar and feathe
29 BigGSFO : I agree 100%.
30 AA767400 : Correct. Low-yielding and VFR. 3X SJU and 2x SDQ coming this summer is enough. The market can sustain both, if not more frequency on this high demand
31 MAH4546 : AA still has all those slots. After DOT would not allow the retirement, AA put the prime slots - which other airliens would want - into use by revers
32 Admluvs2fly : Is anyone aware that the F/A group is ready to strike? They really need to get there house in order.
33 SCL767 : Great post and that's why I will not switch frequent flyer programs. I do hope that AA keeps the current upgrade policy in place for Gold and PLT eli
34 NYCAdvantage : I couldn't agree with you guys more, for the past 8 years AA has been sleeping at both JFK and LGA, AA needs to pause for a moment, regroup and deliv
35 VV701 : If this were true then AA have clearlly wasted a lot of time and money in seeking ATI from the US DoT. If they really cannot expect BA to help them o
36 American 767 : Not necessarily if he or she is Plat for life after going over 2 million miles lifetime, he or she doesn't have to fly 50000 miles within a year to r
37 Golli : If AA's asia system deteriorates even further, they stand to loose more and more corporate travel contracts, eating into the revenue potential even f
38 LipeGIG : Very good discussion. I begin to fly more AA about 1 year ago just after they decided to fly JFK-GIG non stop (even seasonal) and have changed my idea
39 AA767400 : Both Pilots and Flight Attendants are a long way from striking. They are both in negotiations, and hopefully both groups will come to a resolution. O
40 Squid : Everyone seems to have this idea that Delta is emerging as THE premium airline in the US, but I think they are weaker than what they appear to be. Uni
41 Admluvs2fly : In fridays edition of the USA TODAY, it was reported that the F/A union has not been able to move anyware with the company and that the group is read
42 Post contains images FXramper : - Grow internationally @ JFK - Get a new CEO (where is Bethune?) - soda contracts? - pilot contracts? - f/a contracts? - mx contracts? - MRTC - speed
43 Chris7217 : Would it make sense for AAL to establish a hub at Narita and send its planes from there to various destinations in Asia? I'm thinking about destinatio
44 FXramper : Are you talking about a through flight on 772 or bringing a subfleet of 738?
45 BigGSFO : Really? This is third on the list?
46 LAXdude1023 : Sadly, I think thats what they are going to try to keep it at with their own metal. They will look for a new codeshare partner in that reigion. But f
47 Sydscott : Would there be any value in AA also applying for the unused US Airways China frequency and starting LAX-China with it?
48 Slinky09 : Generally I agreed with much of what you say, however if you think JFK is not hell to transfer through, but LHR is, I'd have to counter ... If / when
49 MPDPilot : So, I thought I would chime in here. American Airlines has everything that it needs to be the best airline in the world. They have a rather large flee
50 Chris7217 : FXramper, I think both options could be pretty interesting. Personally I think it might make more sense to base a subfleet of B757s or/and B738s in N
51 Cslusarc : Up here in Western Canada, it is "Pop" or "Soft Drinks".
52 David_itl : It's going to be interesting to see what a combined BA/AA would do with UK-USA services; rthe 1st time it was floated up, AA had plans for up to 6 se
53 DLMD90 : Could not have put it any better myself, This is exactly how I feel about AA, and in regards to Delta, I think they are becoming a real power player,
54 Commavia : I realize it's a chicken and egg thing. But honestly, while I do completely agree with you that Arpey, et al have been and are being way, way too con
55 ElmoTheHobo : Enormous value. American (or just about anybody) could apply for, and be awarded those frequencies. American would also be the only US carrier to eit
56 JBAirwaysFan : AA already did LGA-ATL. That market, to me, seems like a suicide move for AA to go into again with the hourly DL LGA-ATL flights and the large amount
57 Jfkgaylga : "Correct. Low-yielding and VFR. 3X SJU and 2x SDQ coming this summer is enough." But that's the thing, it's not. B6 is making money hand over fist on
58 Peanuts : Mostly excellent posts up here. Nothing to add really other than in regards to Asia: go after Air China like there is no tomorrow. They are not as loc
59 AA767400 : B6 does make a profit on these routes because they have a lower operating cost. AA, does not. That would be one fleet, the A300. Routes like MCO-SJU
60 STT757 : I think what AA needs is a "win" to begin to turn things around, the JAL situation does not look good. However if they do get ATI with BA/IB that they
61 Seatback : The fact that you're discussing a UA and CO hook-up and not an AA/CO hook up is a point worth making. Looking into my crystal ball 10 years from now,
62 STT757 : CO with hubs in DEN, ORD, IAD, IAH, EWR, LAX, SFO..
63 LAXdude1023 : Ive seen alot of great posts on here, but I do think with the current people at the helm, alot of it is pie in the sky. I absolutely love Commavia's t
64 Seatback : I agree this should have been started a while ago, but just because AZ picked this up first doesn't mean that AA can't go in. Once they do, AZ will b
65 BigGSFO : Agreed and DFW-ICN will probably come at the expense of the 2nd DFW-NRT so transpac will only net 1 additional flight (ORD-HKG) provided that AA does
66 LipeGIG : Yes, and it makes me think how many other markets are like GIG for example in Europe. I agree, but at the same time they would need more aircraft oth
67 Aaal : While this might be true, you have to look at the other markets that AA has opened up from JFK. JFK-BCN, MXP, PIT, LAS, MCO, UVF are some and soon th
68 LipeGIG : That's what i meant with opportunities in New York Area. If AA do not fill the gap, other airlines will do it and potential frequent flyers will go t
69 American 767 : I don't agree with that one. The Super 80 is a nice aircraft, pleasant to fly on, and some of them are still young only 10 or 11 years old. There was
70 WorldTraveler : DL is operating from a historic position of being an outsider to the elite of the industry; let's remember that AA and UA were two of the original ai
71 LAXdude1023 : And Im sure you know what a big "if" that is. And you are absolutely right. DFW-ICN would definately come at the expense of the 2nd DFW-NRT flight.
72 STT757 : CO and UA dominate service to the UK and Germany from the United States, the UK and Germany being the largest Western European countries with the mos
73 MAH4546 : It would be no contest. UA has 42 China frequencies, seven of which are unused, and AA only as 14. UA has no significant feed advantage at LAX, eithe
74 Ripcordd : Yes ATL is huge but how much is of that traffic is local vs connecting I bet connecting traffic far out weighs local 2-3 margin. DL has 1 hub that is
75 MPDPilot : I hadn't thought of UA/CO, that would be another headache for DL. It makes perfect sense why DL is doing what they are doing, they know that once eit
76 AA767400 : Easy there cowboy, They are not out of the woods yet. Let's see what the real outcome is when the dust settles.
77 Moman : Agreed with this statement. I wish that AA would reverse the MD-80 retirements and consider selling some of the new 738 fleet (a la Delta). The MD-80
78 Flyingbronco05 : "There are many on here with better insight, but, I'd say AA could use 60-75 E175/190 or equivilant type on many routes adding additional seats where
79 Ripcordd : Ok I mean DL Hubs are weak as this if nobody had hubs and they had the opition of choosing them they would take MIA over ATL ORD over MSP & DTW DEN ov
80 LipeGIG : I agree with you that many routes out of MIA and JFK to Europe and South America could bring better return with the A333 but this means capital inves
81 LAXdude1023 : Here is why ICN should be from DFW first, not ORD: 1) AA carries alot more ICN bound pax on their DFW-NRT flights than they do on their ORD-NRT fligh
82 WorldTraveler : Again, CO and UA have a strong presence to western and northern Europe, specifically just a couple countries. And BTW DL is the 2nd largest carrier t
83 WorldTraveler : across its entire network, AA carries about 80 passengers per day to S. Korea w/ AA being the transpac carrier. The number one origin is JFK. DFW and
84 OA412 : You're dreaming if you really believe that CO would be the surviving brand in any hypothetical CO/UA merger. They may dominate the UK (with most flig
85 Moman : Granted, but AA doesn't need the 764. Sure, it's a nice to have, but not a necessary aircraft to continue to operate. From my understanding, AA will
86 LAXdude1023 : Youre missing the point. Even with HKG as a great transfer point to southeast Asia, HKG will not work as transfer point to ICN. ICN is too large of m
87 MAH4546 : If we were to apply WT's flawed logic and perception to everything Delta has done, Delta would have failed 9 times out of 10. It's not even worth arg
88 WorldTraveler : There are precisely TWO nonstop US carrier routes operated from the 48 states and both were from strong US hubs to partner hubs in S. Korea. It doesn
89 LAXdude1023 : There comes a time in every carriers history where they have to at least try to fly in the face of competition for the sake of the network. Are we ho
90 LAXdude1023 : And you think AA would still only be able to get 20 passengers per day if the flight was nonstop to ICN (from DFW or ORD)? Flawed logic. Completely f
91 Moman : I agree with this as well. Sure, ICN might be a hole in the schedule, but AA needs to focus on the truth growth areas of China/SE Asia/Japan. ICN sou
92 LipeGIG : I don't believe a 763 flight to ICN would be a good idea. You can't compete with KE using such a bad product for a new route connecting 2 key markets
93 OA412 : NGO does and I believe that KIX still has a nonstop to the US but can't be certain. If KIX does not currently have a nonstop flight, they will shortl
94 Jfkgaylga : Guys the Asian flights from mega-hubs that are not near Asian population centers is a bad idea because they rely on connecting traffic. ATL-Asia? I re
95 LAXdude1023 : More than you would think. DFW is home to over 300,000 Asian Americans. ATL is home to about 215,000. IAH is home to about 325,000. They certainly ar
96 American 767 : No it won't replace the majority of the MD-80 fleet. Once all 738's currently on order are delivered in two years from now at the latest, there will
97 MAH4546 : You absurdly flawed and biased logic applies equally to Delta on LAX-SYD and LAX-GRU. Not only will AA likely fly to Seoul, but AA will likely find s
98 OA412 : AA canceled DFW-KIX a couple of years ago.
99 Moman : That's not entirely correct. The original plan was for AA to replace all the MD-80 flying with a combination of RJ and 738 equipment. It was clear th
100 Flyby519 : Is there any value in AMR opening a base in NRT with a subfleet of 738s and maybe a shorter range turboprop (Q400) to do their own service to NE Asia/
101 Flyfree727 : Im certainly aware of it AA ORD
102 LipeGIG : That's why i'm asking if there's no chance of success to fly secondary markets in Japan to ORD or LAX or DFW with 763's Agree in part Mark. You're on
103 Cslusarc : If you have not been reading other threads on the topic, there are no more slots available to US based carriers other than the slots already allocate
104 MAH4546 : Any form JAL-DAL approval would require slot divestiture, slots which AA might find use for depending on what strategy they would pursue in Asia if J
105 IrishAyes : This route has been tried, failed, and axed twice. Once, pre-9/11, and once in 2006, well before the oil crisis and the recession. I doubt this will
106 Texan : Just a quick note on Open Skies II: regardless of how sound it is on paper, I cannot see Congress approving any major lessening of foreign ownership
107 Aaway : AA's Plan For The Future? Speculative post pending an official announcement from JL. Nevertheless, this would be my opinion on the network should JL-D
108 LipeGIG : Thanks. I agree and know NRT is well served, and that's the point considering JAL will be no longer a partner. Everyone flies to NRT and HND but as y
109 WorldTraveler : but it's all predicated on waiting for 787s.... DL and UA would be quite happy if AA sits around and waits for the 787s to try to develop the Pacific
110 Cws818 : It also works from Northeast/Mid-Altlantic markets to LHR, such as BWI/BDL, which would become viable once BA/AA ATI is approved.
111 MAH4546 : No, we didn't. Chicago-Moscow, like, say, Atlanta-Stockholm, is a market with great potential launched at the wrong time. AA will be returning to Mos
112 WorldTraveler : let us know how that goes once it happens (we'll be watching the data as well). A repeat of their sub 50% LFs won't cut it. developmental routes whic
113 Cws818 : Negative. BA flies BWI-LHR right now. Its not "developmental" since it has been developed. It will simply develop further on a more profitable basis
114 MAH4546 : Just look at the AA's excellent performance in August. CNF is at 92% loads already, and REC/SSA just continues to improve at a great pace, it will ac
115 Gemuser : It won't be a duopoly unless UA pulls out and frankly IMHO DL will fold first. Although the VA/DL JV MAY keep them in the game. I think you under est
116 LAXdude1023 : Then do explain why DFW-NRT is AA's best preforming Asian route. 40% of the NRT traffic is bound for places beyond NRT on those flights as well. That
117 Tommy767 : IMHO, one of the biggest mistakes made by AA within the last few years. AA is still #1 at LGA but with significantly less presence than they used to
118 LAXdude1023 : In my opinion, AA needs to take a page from DL's book. If you remember in 2006, DL annouced 4 new routes from ATL: VIE PRG DXB ICN Of those 4, VIE and
119 LipeGIG : Agreed ! DL took a lot of risk with a strong expansion from JFK and ATL, for sure they made mistakes, but they also find out very interesting routes.
120 B752os : Is there a large difference between MIA-BSB and Brazil in general O&D and ATL- BSB and Brazil in general O&D?
121 MAH4546 : Huh?
122 Manfredj : I browsed through a few replies but skipped through most of them. The reason why is that I'm sure I have the correct answer: Merge with CO. It really
123 LAXdude1023 : Ahh...yup.
124 Crosswinds21 : But one could argue that AA has done this, no? For example, out of several recent routes that AA tried out of ORD: DEL DME PVG EZE Just like in the D
125 MAH4546 : CO seems very tied up with UA, though. It is not an idea that is entirely far fetched - despite the fact that it won't happen - but a combined CO/AA
126 LAXdude1023 : It wont happen. CO had the opprotunity to go with AA before they choose UA.
127 Crosswinds21 : That's not crazy at all. A lot of people have suggested it and I think it makes perfect sense. There is virtually no network overlap and this would g
128 Peanuts : It's pretty crazy actually. DL will be a big spoiler to anyone who thinks they can "court" their current "date" AS right now. AS has more benefit sti
129 LAXdude1023 : I agree with this statement in its fullest. However, AA cant fall behind in route network either.
130 COflyerBOS : I'd prefer a CO/AA merger or alliance over the CO/UA one simply because I think AA is a better airline. That said, Star Alliance offers CO so much mor
131 DeltaL1011man : You do know KE has daily ATL-ICN with a 333 seat 747 right? aslo i believe they have 4-5x weekly DFW-ICN on a A330. As far as ATL-PVG, would like to
132 Commavia : An AA-AS merger makes so much sense for so many reasons. Not only would it give AA a truly nationwide network, but it would dramatically strengthen A
133 Jfk777 : IF AA sees Seattle as its Asian gateway, then Alaska make sense to be acquied by teh AMR holding company not necessarily to be merged with AA. Whatev
134 Peanuts : Guys, with all due respect, seriously, I am choking here... AA and the words "acquiring", "merging" do not seem very compatible the last 20 years. Re
135 Commavia : Uh -- did you read what I wrote in Reply 132? AA-AS is a non-starter. It would never work.
136 Peanuts : I am not following. So, AS would HAVE to be brought UP to AA's costs levels for the "truly national" network to make sense, yet if that was to happen
137 Toobz : humerous and so true AA is a great airline and have great people working for them. Flew them from PDX - CUN -PDX and had great crew going and coming.
138 Post contains links Commavia : Huh? This isn't difficult. AS costs would necessarily rise to AA levels when the two airlines were integrated, by virtue of the sheer fact that the t
139 GlobalCabotage : AA does not have the testicles to be a leader, they are a follower as many here have stated. We know JL will probably leave for SkyTeam. This will mor
140 Cjpark : WN in Dallas probably is not AA's biggest concern. How will AA will handle WN at DAL. If they do not use the two gates to capacity I can see them lea
141 LAXdude1023 : Rumors persist. Everyone at AA seems to think the two routes mentioned will happen. I hope they at least try them. But given the labor problems, ther
142 MAH4546 : But I never said they should merge. I don't think AA and AS should merge outside of their frequent flier programs. I was talking about bringing AS un
143 PlanesNTrains : That doesn't matter nearly as much as how much someone is willing to pay to buy them out. If AA brings more $$ to the table, AS shareholders couldn't
144 IrishAyes : I don't think you can draw comparisons between secondary cities (however large) in Japan and secondary cities in Europe. For starters, bear in mind t
145 MAH4546 : I'm not doubting there would be union issues, but the only way for AS to successfully merge into AA - or any other airline, really - would be some so
146 Aaway : IIRC, the current APA contract specifically forbids AA/AMR from acquiring, then operating, a mainline carrier as separate entity independent of AA. J
147 DeltaL1011man : I'm 99% sure the APA would not even let the idea come up, and I'm 75% sure the APFA wouldn't buy into it. Thank goodness for them. (and IMO i don't t
148 SurfandSnow : AA will continue to consolidate its network around its key hubs at DFW, ORD, MIA, and JFK - as well as its "base" at LAX. These airports are: 1) Larg
149 WorldTraveler : but once again you fail to discuss MIA-GRU RT which is the largest market in Latin America and one of the lowest performing routes of all US carriers
150 Commavia : That would never be possible. The unions would never allow it. If AA-AS were to merge, that would be a major battle. If AA were to try and bring in A
151 LAXdude1023 : Yet you seem to think DFW-Asia is crazy. But somehow you dont think ATL-Asia is crazy. According to DOT data, DFW-NRT O&D traffic was higher yeilding
152 AAExecPlat : Here's a question I have: 1) When can we hope for AA to liquidate or be acquired by the most glorious Delta so WorldTraveler will quit spewing his one
153 AAExecPlat : Oh...and a few more thoughts: 1) I wonder how many here are frequent flyers...and I am not talking about 3 RTs per year. How many here fly a lot, pref
154 B752OS : I was asking if there is a big difference between the O&D from Miami to Brazil vs. the O&D from Atlanta to Brazil.
155 LAXdude1023 : Yes. The difference is huge. Outside NYC, the difference between Miami and anywhere else to Brazil is huge.
156 Peanuts : Kind of an oxymoron. I think the "opportunities keep slipping away" for a reason... I'm not an insider but from observing the "house cleaning" at UA,
157 LAXdude1023 : I agree fully.
158 MAH4546 : No market comes close to Miami-Brazil's O&D except for New York City. It's basically: 1) Miami 2) New York City 3) Everybody else. I think Miami and
159 Tommy767 : Both UA and CO are pretty smug airlines (cough cough..LAX, SFO, IAH, ORD, EWR...cough cough) They should keep away from AS because it wouldn't really
160 AAAL : It is very cool. AA has been sitting too comfortable, ignoring all of the moves made by the majors carriers and still has not picked out a strategy o
161 Toobz : I have to agree. DL/AS do have a close relation. And plus being linked closely with the worlds largest airline can't hurt. If AS does choose to enter
162 Jfkgaylga : "The first battle will be at JFK, and then probably LAX, somehow I see AA winning both battles." I am not getting into the whole AA vs DL thing becaus
163 WorldTraveler : I am not saying they should hand it over... but the major strategic issue remains that AA has allowed JAL to slip away from oneworld and both major K
164 WA707atMSP : I can think of one DL strikeout right away: LAX. DL has repeatedly built, then dismantled, their LAX hub / focus city operation. Unless UA or AA cut
165 LAXdude1023 : And I dont disagree with this. In my opinion, AA needs to either find a way to continue to codeshare with JL or find a new codeshare partner in a dif
166 MAH4546 : To GRU/GIG, absolutely, we already have seen that. To everywhere else in Brazil? Delta's result speaks alone.
167 WorldTraveler : But what you and others fail to appreciate is that DL really has not invested much money in LAX flying. Most of the DL metal flying was overnight fly
168 MAH4546 : And you have yet to demonstrate that AA isn't making money in Brazil, other than using ancedotal evidence and manipulating it into your favor. I coul
169 LAXdude1023 : Yes it can. It already is working. DFW-NRT is AA's best preforming Asian route. About half of that traffic is meant for points beyond NRT. So I remai
170 B6A322 : AA's, if not also the Oneworld alliance's future is hinged upon JAL's decision. Because after all, once JAL leaves for Skyteam (which, there's no deny
171 LAXdude1023 : Considering that JL has only been in OneWorld for 3 years, thats not the case at all.
172 WorldTraveler : You haven't provided ANY data.. manipulated or not.... if you would like to provide ANY data that supports your position, we can discuss it. My data
173 Post contains links MAH4546 : Wrong. http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...ilia-em-2010_50959.html?pesquisa=1 AA is currently planning to add at least one new Brazilian city in 2
174 WorldTraveler : this is not any indication that AA has applied for a route; it 's all just hot air until AA actually make a route application. When they do, let me kn
175 MAH4546 : It's an "indication." You said AA has not made any indications (or, as you put it, INDICATION), but AA has. You were 100% wrong. I am not claiming AA
176 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : And ATL-NRT has a lower average fare than DFW-NRT by over $100. So therefore, DL is losing money on ATL-Asia and KE must be also, huh?   There is no
177 AAExecPlat : Welcome B6A322. Your post has to be one of the more uninformed I've read in a while. So QF and CX don't count as members of OneWorld? How about IB an
178 777STL : Yeah, what is OW going to do with all those third world airlines like CX, QF, BA, LA, IB, RJ, etc? (If I knew how to make the eye rolling smiley, I'd
179 DeltaL1011man : um i'm just pointing this out, DL has only grown at LAX post merger, added 1x daily OGG, 3x daily LAS(and upgraded it as NW has 1x daily 319) adding
180 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Interesting that you mention CX. From the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation: Japan Airlines sitting on a wonderful opportunity. So is Cathay. It’s n
181 MAH4546 : It's not even speculation. It is entirely baseless. It's no different than me saying "Korean Air is leaving SkyTeam" or "Singapore Airlines is leavin
182 Post contains images B6A322 : Fair enough, i did absolutely no research before doing that post  It was based solely on a matter of opinion, which I swore to myself I wouldn't do.
183 DeltaL1011man : i didn't say that
184 B6A322 : I'm still a little new here, meant to quote the guy before you, ill change it now.
185 Peanuts : As a newbie myself allow me to welcome you to a.net. Although maybe not worded as complete and articulate as possible, I get what you are saying. You
186 MAH4546 : I entirely understand the trouble AA is in right now. That doesn't change the fact that saying "Cathay Pacific is leaving OW" is entirely baseless. T
187 Peanuts : I don't believe hysterical is the right word. I'm more "concerned" for them. Coming from you, this gives me reason to be VERY concerned. I give them
188 Sydscott : QF's day of reckoning? haha There won't be a day of reckoning for QF. They've made profits the whole way through the financial crisis; have an immens
189 MAH4546 : Funny. Maybe somebody should tell him that MU does not belong to any alliance. I've always said AA has zero vision. It's nothing new. It's not going
190 LoneStarMike : The article didn't say CX is leaving OW. It implies that it could leave OW. The key word here is "possibly. Is it possible that CX could leave OW? Th
191 MAH4546 : To rephrase, the article is no different than me saying "Korean Air could leave SkyTeam." I can say that. That doesn't mean it will be happening or t
192 Peanuts : Correct. FM is with StarAlliance. There was talk FM and MU were going to merge last year. CA (StarAlliance) had some shares still in MU as well. Not
193 MAH4546 : Even if we disagree on the ATI points, it will be lengthy just by the default fact that DOT is heavily backlogged as is. That can't be changed. So ev
194 Sydscott : But the funny thing is that all that EK, Etihad, V Australia, Delta, Qatar, Air Asia, Viva Macau and others have done is to expand the market so more
195 Peanuts : I know I brought up QF while discussing OW. We should probably discuss QF on a different thread though. I like all your arguments in favor of QF. I t
196 LAXdude1023 : Sometimes I wonder if thats such a bad idea (with ORD in the mix). For the most part, CO lives off two hubs at IAH and EWR. AAs biggest problem is it
197 AAExecPlat : My 2 cents. I find it patently absurd to believe that CX will defect out of OW in the near future. Should they join Star where TG and SQ already more
198 AAExecPlat : One more thing.... Peanuts...I believe MAH was talking about AA shoring up its finances in the Arpey era, not the inclusion of TPG in its offer to JAL
199 Jetlanta : Comm, with all due respect, being BIG is not illegal. There is no legal argument for blocking an AS/DL deal. Market Concentration levels do not begin
200 Seatback : History shows AA has had tremedous vision, they just don't have it now...which is very frustrating.
201 Post contains links LAXtoATL : long read but a good summary of current events... http://www.thetransnational.travel/n...st-immunity-ANA-Oneworld.Jan-10.20
202 AAExecPlat : " target=_blank>http://www.thetransnational.travel/n...10.20 Great read.
203 Post contains links LAXtoATL : Good read on what AA management sees as the future... http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...stry-recovery-updates-on-jal/page1
204 AAExecPlat : " target=_blank>http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...page1 Fascinating article. I found their position on costs by far the most interesting item in
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