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AS Back To LGB?  
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3156 times:
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Hi there! Is there any chance that AS will return to LGB with 737's?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25374 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Well Alaska so far has given back 3 of its 5 air-carrier slots, so I'd say its quite unlikely. The remaining two are being used by Horizon.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLaddie From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 601 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

I believe Alaska is happy let Horizon handle the airport with their CRJ-700s. I think Alaska's 737s are busy with their flights to/from Hawaii right now.

User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3066 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Well Alaska so far has given back 3 of its 5 air-carrier slots, so I'd say its quite unlikely. The remaining two are being used by Horizon.

Horizon is flying 4 flights a day into LGB. 2 from PDX and 2 from SEA. Do Horizon flights not require slots at LGB and Alaska is hanging onto 2 slots "just in case"?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25374 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

Horizon does hold commuter-carrier slots at LGB additionally.
The way the slots work, an air-carrier slot can be used by a commuter (<75,000lbs MTOW) but not wise-versa. Alaska Air Group for long period has mixed and matched its LGB slot holdings to allow growing Horizon activity.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2928 times:
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What happens if QX finally rids itself of their CRJ-700's. They claim that they will retire them in 2013...but how true is that now?

User currently offlineSuperdash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2769 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
What happens if QX finally rids itself of their CRJ-700's. They claim that they will retire them in 2013...but how true is that now?

Beyond the debate of length of flight...nothing. The Q400 weighs less than the CRJ-700 and is permitted under the commuter slots at Long Beach. The Q400 is problematic at Orange County due to the seats (greater than 70) and it would be required to operate under the mainline rules.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2724 times:
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Quoting Superdash (Reply 6):
Beyond the debate of length of flight...nothing. The Q400 weighs less than the CRJ-700 and is permitted under the commuter slots at Long Beach. The Q400 is problematic at Orange County due to the seats (greater than 70) and it would be required to operate under the mainline rules.

I don't doubt the fact that the Q400 has the legs to do it, but would be feasible? My guess is that AS/QX will discontinue service to LGB if and when they decide to get rid of the CRJ-700. Or AS will reintroduce 737's when the economy gets better. Afterall, 2013 is pretty far away.


User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2685 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
I don't doubt the fact that the Q400 has the legs to do it, but would be feasible? My guess is that AS/QX will discontinue service to LGB if and when they decide to get rid of the CRJ-700. Or AS will reintroduce 737's when the economy gets better. Afterall, 2013 is pretty far away

It has the legs. It's flown Seattle-Santa Barbara (as a sub aircraft) before. The plane can go more than 1,000 miles. But you're right, it might not be practical. As long as Blue is in the market, I don't see Alaska in the market, plus they probably can't get slots as Blue will make sure they don't. My gut says LGB goes away or Horizon flies there via a point somewhere in the Bay Area or middle Nevada to avoid the 3 hour Q400 ride.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2600 times:
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Quoting SuperDash (Reply 8):
It has the legs. It's flown Seattle-Santa Barbara (as a sub aircraft) before. The plane can go more than 1,000 miles. But you're right, it might not be practical. As long as Blue is in the market, I don't see Alaska in the market, plus they probably can't get slots as Blue will make sure they don't. My gut says LGB goes away or Horizon flies there via a point somewhere in the Bay Area or middle Nevada to avoid the 3 hour Q400 ride.

That would be a shame. AS worked hard to get those slots. I guess seeing is believing. The other things is that, given some of the unpredictable nature of the industry, we could be surprised.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26493 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2589 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Well Alaska so far has given back 3 of its 5 air-carrier slots, so I'd say its quite unlikely.

Per the agreement, B6 is supposed to get them. Did they?

Quoting Laddie (Reply 2):
I think Alaska's 737s are busy with their flights to/from Hawaii right now.

LOL. Well, busy with their one-stop flights to Hawai'i.  Silly

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 3):
Horizon is flying 4 flights a day into LGB. 2 from PDX and 2 from SEA. Do Horizon flights not require slots at LGB and Alaska is hanging onto 2 slots "just in case"?

Q400 meets the LGB definition of commuter. There are a lot more commuter slots at LGB than there are carrier slots.

Quoting Superdash (Reply 6):
Beyond the debate of length of flight...nothing. The Q400 weighs less than the CRJ-700 and is permitted under the commuter slots at Long Beach.

Yep.

Quoting Superdash (Reply 6):
The Q400 is problematic at Orange County due to the seats (greater than 70) and it would be required to operate under the mainline rules.

AS ought to enter into negotiations with the OC NIMBY squad and explain just how much quieter the Q400 is.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):

I don't doubt the fact that the Q400 has the legs to do it, but would be feasible?

It absolutely would be. The flight might be all of 15-20 minutes longer, but would be highly competitive on costs.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
AS worked hard to get those slots.

More like AS, and their cronies at AA, worked hard to steal those slots.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2441 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Well Alaska so far has given back 3 of its 5 air-carrier slots, so I'd say its quite unlikely. The remaining two are being used by Horizon.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
My guess is that AS/QX will discontinue service to LGB if and when they decide to get rid of the CRJ-700. Or AS will reintroduce 737's when the economy gets better. Afterall, 2013 is pretty far away.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Per the agreement, B6 is supposed to get them. Did they?

Alaska will be losing all of its slots at LGB and LGB will be reassigning them as soon as they are all back in the pot. There will actually be 6 slots up for auction, though I thought there were only 5. This was confirmed by Airport Director Mario Rodriguez at the Long Beach Aviation Friends .

B6 does not automatically get the slots but rather, it goes into a pool where people can express interest. So far, B6, F9, SY, and G4 have expressed an interest. That doesn't mean they will actually use them, but it means they at least are showing a preliminary interest. Others may join in.

My understanding is that the slots are split equally among applicants. So, if all four of those carriers wanted slots, they would each get one and then they have a random drawing to see who gets the final two.

When the Airborne Express slot was vacated last year, only B6 and SY went for it with B6 winning the random drawing. SY probably only wants one slot, so they should get it. I have no clue what G4 would want, if they would even go through with it. I know B6 would want them all, of course, while F9 would probably want 2 or 3.

Right now, Delta and Horizon are the only ones using commuter slots and there are still plenty available if others want to come in. The CR7 is as big as you can go with the commuter slots. Even the CR9 doesn't work (which is why US has to operate with big jet slots). DL is using the AS slots on a temporary basis for its CR9s. I wonder if they'll look for permanent big jet slots or not. They currently have none permanently.

None of the E-jets work, though JetBlue would certainly like to try to use them if they can. They don't really have room for that yet - it'll likely have to wait for the new holdrooms to open before even trying to sway the city to allow it. That's an uphill fight.

My guess is that Alaska is done in LGB. The slots will be gone, and unless someone else leaves (US?), it'll be hard for them to get back in.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2403 times:
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Again, that's too bad. I guess QX is better than no service, but at least we still have Blue service. Maybe if B6 gets additional slots, they'll increase some of their west coast flying, especially to the PNW.

User currently offlineCondorito From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2282 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
LOL. Well, busy with their one-stop flights to Hawai'i. Silly

Hooray for N1120A!
That other thread turned nasty in a hurry.



The future's uncertain, and the end is always near.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2241 times:
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Quoting Condorito (Reply 13):
That other thread turned nasty in a hurry.

Yeah...you hit some nerves over there.


User currently offlineCondorito From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2200 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
Yeah...you hit some nerves over there.

Sad, but that was not my intention at all.
Funny how sensitive some people are and how unwilling they are to face the facts.
C'est la vie.



The future's uncertain, and the end is always near.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26493 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2186 times:



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 11):
Alaska will be losing all of its slots at LGB and LGB will be reassigning them as soon as they are all back in the pot. There will actually be 6 slots up for auction, though I thought there were only 5.



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 11):
B6 does not automatically get the slots but rather, it goes into a pool where people can express interest. So far, B6, F9, SY, and G4 have expressed an interest.

The way I read the settlement when AA and AS basically colluded to steal slots from B6 is that any slots abandoned by AA or AS would automatically revert to B6, because they were taken from them in the first place.

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 11):
I have no clue what G4 would want, if they would even go through with it

They would have to do daily service or I'm sure the other carriers, especially jetBlue, would go apesh!t.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2134 times:
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Quoting Condorito (Reply 15):
Sad, but that was not my intention at all.
Funny how sensitive some people are and how unwilling they are to face the facts.
C'est la vie.

No worries. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. There are some strong AS supporters for any airline. I would be lying to you if I wasn't a strong AS supporter as well.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13599 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
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Quoting Condorito (Reply 15):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
Yeah...you hit some nerves over there.

Sad, but that was not my intention at all.

Right.   

Take another look at your first few posts in that thread and tell me you didn't have an axe to grind.

[Edited 2010-01-17 23:19:02]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2024 times:
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Quoting Laddie (Reply 2):
I believe Alaska is happy let Horizon handle the airport with their CRJ-700s. I think Alaska's 737s are busy with their flights to/from Hawaii right now.

They were using 73/?Gs not, 73Hs when they were flying mainline.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
don't doubt the fact that the Q400 has the legs to do it, but would be feasible? My guess is that AS/QX will discontinue service to LGB if and when they decide to get rid of the CRJ-700. Or AS will reintroduce 737's when the economy gets better. Afterall, 2013 is pretty far away.

The E70/75 would be a good jet for QX to operate into stations such as LGB and other routes where the length of the flight doesn't allow them to operate the DH8-400.


User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1907 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
The way I read the settlement when AA and AS basically colluded to steal slots from B6 is that any slots abandoned by AA or AS would automatically revert to B6, because they were taken from them in the first place.

Maybe that was up to a certain number, but that isn't the way it's been working. That's why there was a lottery for the ABX slot - SY and B6 both went for it.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 19):
The E70/75 would be a good jet for QX to operate into stations such as LGB and other routes where the length of the flight doesn't allow them to operate the DH8-400.

The E70 is too heavy for LGB, sadly.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5433 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1770 times:



Quoting Condorito (Reply 13):
That other thread turned nasty in a hurry.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 14):
Yeah...you hit some nerves over there



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
Take another look at your first few posts in that thread and tell me you didn't have an axe to grind.

I just read that entire thread and I can't believe that a mod shut it down! It seemed to me like a nice tame discussion with some differences of opinion but I've seen punches being thrown on many threads here on A.net that continued WAY too long and WAY beyond where the thread in question was... Wow!

LGB is always an interesting station to follow; the fate of these few empty slots will be fun to see.

bb


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
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Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 20):
The E70 is too heavy for LGB, sadly.

Thanks for the information, Brett. That is sad. I was afraid of that. That would be a great a/c to utilize @ LGB along with the E75 and more E90/95s. Maybe the city of Long Beach will have a change of heart someday.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2866 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1686 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Thread starter):
Is there any chance that AS will return to LGB with 737's?

Doubtful. Once B6 started flying directly to SEA and PDX that was probably it for the AS mainline services. Perhaps QX could consider a SEA/PDX-SJC-LGB flight, though. They seem to have the uncanny ability to make things work from SJC that others can't. Or a through SEA-LGB-HNL service?  stirthepot 

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 11):
So far, B6, F9, SY, and G4 have expressed an interest.

If this is SY's second try at a LGB slot, they must be quite interested in serving the airport. Shocking really, considering they hardly serve LAX as it is. B6 doesn't serve DEN from LGB (still not sure why) and I bet F9 is trying to capitalize on that...if they can pull off DEN-CAK, I'm sure DEN-LGB would work out for them - though I'm sure B6 would magically find a slot to start DEN-LGB if that were to happen. As for G4, that's anyone's guess...they would probably fly to a different city each day of the week and still call LGB a "hub", LOL.

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 11):
Others may join in.

DL and US already serve the airport, UA and AA used to, doubt they'll be coming back... WN has never wanted to serve LGB owing to the restrictive slot policy in place...
Wonder if HA has ever thought about LGB-HNL? Granted, LGB doesn't directly serve the most affluent areas, but LGB is a bit closer to those wealthy OC folks than LAX...
VX could also be an interesting possibility...I've always thought they should give SFO-BUR/LGB/ONT a try since WN does not serve these markets (though, WN also didn't serve SFO-SNA before they announced it)...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
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