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JFK Terminal 8 Evacuated Due To Security Breach  
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6826 times:
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It looks like there's been another security breach leading to a terminal evacuation:

Quote:
NEW YORK – A terminal at John F. Kennedy International Airport was evacuated Saturday after a security breach, officials said.
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey spokesman Steve Coleman said travelers at Kennedy's Terminal 8 were asked to leave so they could be re-screened. He didn't describe the breach.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100116/ap_on_re_us/us_jfk_security_breach

It will be interesting to find out what kind of breach it was. Someone walking in the wrong direction again?


Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5915 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6813 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
Someone walking in the wrong direction again?

....while the TSA was talking on the cell phone?

So glad I pay their salaries.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6768 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey spokesman Steve Coleman said travelers at Kennedy's Terminal 8 were asked to leave so they could be re-screened. He didn't describe the breach.

I love the "were asked to leave" line... I wonder how many people said "No thanks, I'm rather happy to just sit here and wait"?



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6681 times:
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Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
It will be interesting to find out what kind of breach it was. Someone walking in the wrong direction again?

Make me think how to avoid this in the future, i mean, not to count only with human resources.
And the fact that the terminal was evacuated is not a guarantee that the "breach" will be resolved.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

I can't wait till they get those full body scanners in there .... I'll feel so much safer then  Yeah sure

Accoriding to the link in the OP ... a man from an arriving flight opened up a door for staff only.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineSwmdal From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

A spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey said the security breach at Terminal 8 occurred at about 3:25 p.m. when a passenger in the American Airlines first-class lounge apparently exited the lounge through a restricted door.

Charley Wilson, a spokesman for American Airlines, described the door as one that airline employees use, but he did not say where it led. It was unclear whether anyone had been detained after the breach.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/nyregion/17jfk.html?hp


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6420 times:
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Quoting Swmdal (Reply 5):
A spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey said the security breach at Terminal 8 occurred at about 3:25 p.m. when a passenger in the American Airlines first-class lounge apparently exited the lounge through a restricted door.

If it's the door i saw yesterday while waiting for my flight to GIG, i wonder why not put a restrictive device like password request or card access device.
Probably is cheaper than all delays caused.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineOhthedrama747 From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

Sigh, more stupid passengers causes chaos for all.

I'll reserve judgement until later but you'd think a restricted door would have a keypad/card reader lock?


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Pam Ann was in the midst of it all "Tweeting" about what was going on. She is on her way to MIA for one of the Atlantis Cruises.

http://twitter.com/pamannairbitch

Click the above and you will see her funny side of what was going on.


User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6389 times:



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
I can't wait till they get those full body scanners in there .... I'll feel so much safer then Yeah sure

Accoriding to the link in the OP ... a man from an arriving flight opened up a door for staff only.

Okay, tell me how a full body scanner will prevent such from happening? As you saying that next time it does, or something similar, it's a matter of 'oh but everyone's been scanned so it can't be anything to bother about'???


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6343 times:



Quoting Ohthedrama747 (Reply 7):
I'll reserve judgement until later but you'd think a restricted door would have a keypad/card reader lock?

Or maybe a huge sign saying "RESTRICTED EMPLOYEES ONLY"

Hmmmm


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6336 times:



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Or maybe a huge sign saying "RESTRICTED EMPLOYEES ONLY"

All doors for employees in Terminal 5 have card readers. Back offices, entrances to security and staff canteens etc.


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6302 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 9):
Okay, tell me how a full body scanner will prevent such from happening?

Did you see this part of my post ...  Yeah sure ? Its called sarcasm  Wink

Quoting Ohthedrama747 (Reply 7):
Sigh, more stupid passengers causes chaos for all.

Whats to say the passenger was stupid? Maybe lost or confused.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineSwmdal From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

One has to wonder what happened to the card reader. Maybe the door didn't fully latch when the last employee went through it? Such little things as that can lead to major security breaches. As for having signs on the doors, many people just ignore them, or can't read English.

User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

I held off from posting this during the Newark debacle... but now I feel compelled to speak out.

As someone with more than just a casual history with terrorist/insurgent methods and tactics... this is highly alarming. We are opening ourselves to an extremely vulnerable SOP (standard operating procedure). ...Every time one of these breaches occurs, we evacuate the terminal and create a massive crowd outside the security check-points.

As a terrorist, I would coordinate one of these harmless breaches, which would force the hand of the TSA to evacuate the terminal. The TSA would have to get everyone back out to the ticket check-in area to be rescreened by security.

This area is not thoroughly screened by security, and people can come and go with ease. Once this crowd had been assembled, either pre-planted bombs, or suicide bombers, would strike. It's truly frightening to think of... but I am honestly amazed that this hasn't already happened. Especially considering that this is their SOP in the war zones: create a vulnerable crowd, and strike them with maximum effect.

...So with that bone chilling scenario, we really need to reconsider how we deal with these situations.

Are we creating a bigger chance of disaster, here?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21804 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6057 times:



Quoting Ohthedrama747 (Reply 7):
I'll reserve judgement until later but you'd think a restricted door would have a keypad/card reader lock?

One would think. A new terminal shouldn't have areas where people can get into restricted areas without an appropriate ID badge.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6043 times:

We have alot of emergency exit doors here in CVG that are stairwells that are only armed with audible alarms. Yes it is a potentially large security breach but also a necessary emergency evacuation route.

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21804 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6034 times:



Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 16):
We have alot of emergency exit doors here in CVG that are stairwells that are only armed with audible alarms. Yes it is a potentially large security breach but also a necessary emergency evacuation route.

But they generally have big signs on them that say "Emergency Exit Only", or something to that effect. And you generally have to push and hold on them for 10-15 seconds before they will open, just to prevent any accidental opening.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to accidentally open one of those.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

There is no security system in the world that is perfect. And the TSA is living proof of how not to operate security, I'm not an excerpt either however I have been in the security line of work since retiring from the Fire Service, so I do know a few things about security. As UH60FtRucker has pointed out in his scenario, Which I to am concern along with him and also surprised that it has not yet been tried here. The TSA has to come up with a better way of dealing with "Security breaches" other than clearing the concourse or terminal in this case and messing up flights and the passengers days. I hope/pray that the above scenario is not read by a terrorist group and try it out.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5988 times:
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Thinking a little more, at EWR the person entered thru an exit point. Does not seems the case in JFK.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
As someone with more than just a casual history with terrorist/insurgent methods and tactics... this is highly alarming. We are opening ourselves to an extremely vulnerable SOP (standard operating procedure). ...Every time one of these breaches occurs, we evacuate the terminal and create a massive crowd outside the security check-points

And in this case, for someone that seems have passed thru security check point.
To access AA flagship you need to show boarding pass to front desk and they give you an access card to the lounge.
If someone from the lounge exited on an unauthorized door, i raise two questions:

a) The restricted area allows handling unauthorized items ?
b) If the access to "restricted area" is controlled, what's the point ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5883 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
But they generally have big signs on them that say "Emergency Exit Only", or something to that effect. And you generally have to push and hold on them for 10-15 seconds before they will open, just to prevent any accidental opening.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to accidentally open one of those.

In addition, generally, these doors also have the internationally accepted "Do Not Enter" iconography (red circle with horizontal white bar) so not speaking English shouldn't get one off the hook.

In the applications I'm familiar with the sequence is:

If building is not "in emergency" (e.g. fire alarm hasn't sounded) push and hold panic bar for 15 seconds. During this time a local alarm is sounded which is annoying as all getout and pretty difficult to miss if you're anywhere near the door, and in some cases a "preliminary" alarm may be transmitted to the monitoring center/security desk. After 15 seconds has expired, the door releases and a door forced open alarm is generated.

The idea is to get someone's attention before someone enters a restricted area that may be part of an egress path.

If building is in emergency, push panic bar, door releases without delay [if it hasn't already unlocked], door forced open alarm generated.

Quoting Swmdal (Reply 13):
Maybe the door didn't fully latch when the last employee went through it?

Then it comes down to maintenance: Either the closer wasn't "properly" adjusted (some secure area doors I've encountered practically require you to throw your entire body weight at them to open... because the closer tension has been wound up to make absolutely sure that the door gets closed), the door closed/propped open sensor wasn't located in an ideal location, or some crud prevented the door from properly closing.

In any event... anyone entering a secure area should double check that the door has latched behind them. It's matter of course for me when I'm dealing with doors that are to be kept locked: I test the door, open the door, close the door, test the door, and it doesn't really take any extra time.



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlinePlateMan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Newsday, which is behind a stupid pay wall, has some more information and a photo of the 'suspect' who was arrested

Using multiple NY newspapers as sources, here is some more information:

To summarize:

Man is Jules Paul Bouloute, 57, of Brooklyn,

Went through door after landing from MCO upon exiting Admirals Club

Bouloute was in Haiti during the earthquake. Flew from Dominican Republic to MCO then onto JFK. Unclear how he got to Dominican Republic from Haiti

AA employee noticed breach and called Port Authority Police. Cops searched with dogs

Was tracked based on security footage and passenger manifest

Faces criminal trespass charges



"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5804 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
If it's the door i saw yesterday while waiting for my flight to GIG, i wonder why not put a restrictive device like password request or card access device.
Probably is cheaper than all delays caused.

Airline and airport employees should have employee badges, so why not go for the option of card readers for all restricted areas that are employee only? The good thing about it is that you can easily get a log of who went in an out if cardreaders are used that contain information on the person's ID badge (e.g. an employee number).


User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

As I am not involved in the field of airport security, this question may sound dumb but I have to ask.

If this door wasn't leading to the tarmac or security sensitive-area of the terminal (which I doubt it would from the lounge), why evacuate an entire terminal? Why not just deploy a tactical team to the door and conduct a search from the point of entry,

Quoting ManuCH (Thread starter):
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey spokesman Steve Coleman said travelers at Kennedy's Terminal 8 were asked to leave so they could be re-screened.

So why does everyone have to be re screened if someone opened a door? I can understand shutting down the terminal to conduct a search even, but why does everyone have to re-screened if a door was opened? Seems like a waste of time to me but those with better experience and knowledge in aviation security could give me a reason.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5120 times:



Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 23):
So why does everyone have to be re screened if someone opened a door? I can understand shutting down the terminal to conduct a search even, but why does everyone have to re-screened if a door was opened? Seems like a waste of time to me but those with better experience and knowledge in aviation security could give me a reason.

I agree with you, If the information that PlateMan in post 21 is correct, and I have no reason to believe it is not, the Port Authority Police could just have stopped everyone from entering and leaving the secure areas of the terminal until they had either made an arrest or cleared the restricted area of the building to make sure there was no issues of concern. At lease that would have been the way I would have handle the incident. After all they had a photo of the man from security cameras and an idea of the direction of travel from the door in question, so the dogs could track the man so an arrest could be made. But I'm sure the TSA would have had a cow over that idea.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
25 YYZRWY23 : Exactly. Just tell all arriving pax that they are looking for someone and until that time they must remain in the terminal or at the baggage claim ar
26 Just7four7 : Who cares about these constant breaches??? Why are they posted here all the time? I find it so boring. Obsession with security, breaches or not, ...ou
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