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Incident At CRW Airport?  
User currently offlineIad51fl From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 354 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12561 times:

Advising airport is closed but no other details. Anyone in the area?

Thanks,
Chris


Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.9758015, -95.2695694
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAD51FL From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 354 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12515 times:

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- A plane is stuck in the Engineered Materials Arresting System at Yeager Airport after aborting take off.

A spokesperson for the airport said the US Airways flight aborted around 4:30 Tuesday afternoon.


It went into the EMAS which is a soft concrete that is placed at the end of the runway to stop airplanes that have overshot the runway.

No word on what caused the flight to abort take off and there have been no reports of injuries. All passengers are off the plane.

We have a crew on the scene. Keep clicking on WSAZ.com for updated information.

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/82095212.html


---------------------------------------------
Appears to be US 2498 CRJ-200 operated by PSA.



Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.9758015, -95.2695694
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12477 times:

for an airport like that its a VERY GOOD thing they had EMAS....


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12332 times:

per the CRW facebook page US Express 2495 aborted their takeoff and ended up about 130 ft into the EMAS. 30 pax, no injuries. The runway is closed until they can get the aircraft out of there.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12316 times:

How much does it cost to repair the EMAS after an incident in which the aircraft gets stopped in the overrun area?


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12243 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
How much does it cost to repair the EMAS after an incident in which the aircraft gets stopped in the overrun area?

Could be as high as a few million, but the cost is the airlines responsibility.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12213 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
30 pax, no injuries.

Glad to hear this. EMAS did it's job.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
but the cost is the airlines responsibility.

Why is this? If the abort and subsequent overrun was due to crew error (determined by investigation), than I could see the airline being financially liable. But if it was a genuine emergency and the abort take-off was the safest plan of action, why is the airline on the hook? Does this mean that an airline would have to pay for ARFF services as well? What about removing the aircraft, airport authority or airline bear the cost?

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12190 times:



Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 6):
Why is this? If the abort and subsequent overrun was due to crew error (determined by investigation), than I could see the airline being financially liable. But if it was a genuine emergency and the abort take-off was the safest plan of action, why is the airline on the hook? Does this mean that an airline would have to pay for ARFF services as well? What about removing the aircraft, airport authority or airline bear the cost?

Why should the FAA (who paid for it) have to pay to fix it? and Small airports like CRW dont exactly budget for a $5 million plus fix in their annual budgets.

Airline's pay because the alternative (no EMAS) is far more costly.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12145 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
Why should the FAA (who paid for it) have to pay to fix it?

Maybe because they installed it and provided it as a safety feature for this runway? Airlines don't pay for the services of the ARFF when necessary (or do they?).

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
mall airports like CRW dont exactly budget for a $5 million plus fix in their annual budgets.

You just said the FAA would pay, which is it?

I still don't see why this is, but if that is how it is. Is there a way you could provide a source or someone can back-up this answer? Not that i don't believe you, just want others views and opinions.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12095 times:

The insurance company will pay it as part of the airport liability. I had a Saratoga damage some EMAS materials at MDW and it was something like $10,000 to repair. It wasn't a big area, as it was only 5 feet in. But you get the point. I would bet something like $250,000 - $500,000 to fix it.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12082 times:



Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 8):
You just said the FAA would pay, which is it?

The airport doesnt get their operating budget from the FAA, I was just ruling out that the airport should have to pay.

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 8):
Maybe because they installed it and provided it as a safety feature for this runway? Airlines don't pay for the services of the ARFF when necessary (or do they?).

Airlines pay for ARFF indirectly though both airport costs and federal taxes (ARFF $$ comes from both the airport and the FAA, airport often pays operating expenses, while FAA pays for the equpt.)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12043 times:



Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 6):
What about removing the aircraft, airport authority or airline bear the cost?

I would say depends on what is needed... if a crane for instance, I'm betting the airline would be responsible, although their insurance would cover it for sure.

BTW, what makes an airport eligible for EMAS??



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12030 times:



Quoting Nkops (Reply 11):
BTW, what makes an airport eligible for EMAS??

Not having a proper safety area. CRW is on the top of a hill and they need to maximize their runway length. If they had to put in a standard safety area, CRW's runway would be much shorter.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12020 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):

makes sense... thanks!!!



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11992 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
but the cost is the airlines responsibility.

It's actually the airport's. As you said yourself:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
Airlines pay for ARFF indirectly though both airport costs and federal taxes

This includes all services and safety measures, including EMAS.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11814 times:

CRW has been re-opened.

User currently offlineMainrunway From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11685 times:

Here's an updated newspaper story about the incident at CRW.

http://www.dailymail.com/News/Kanawha/201001190538


User currently offlineRolypolyman From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

$10,000 for 5 feet of damage, up to $1 million? What's next, $75 million to replace the pavement in 2030 when some 737NG tears up the next generation EMAS technology? It's probably a lot cheaper to put in 500 feet of pillows. I guess I'm from the old school but I say put in 500 feet of very deep, fine gravel.. it's cheap, functional, and works.

User currently onlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11548 times:

From the article that Mainrunway posted:

Quote:
Several passengers said the pilot told them over the plane's intercom system after the incident that he had ignored a warning to stop when the plane began traveling faster than it is designed to.

This makes no sense. It doesn't even approach making sense.

I'm glad the EMAS did its job and everyone walked away.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11452 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 18):
Quote:
Several passengers said the pilot told them over the plane's intercom system after the incident that he had ignored a warning to stop when the plane began traveling faster than it is designed to.

This makes no sense. It doesn't even approach making sense.

I don't know either, but perhaps it wasn't in proper take-off configuration, a warning came on, they ignored it (why, I don't know), and after exceeding their anticipated take-off speed initiated an abort.

I'm simply pondering - and have absolutely no knowledge in this area - but that's the only thing I can think of that would match such a comment.

I suppose it'd be safer to assume that that isn't what the captain actually said.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4490 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11429 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 18):
Quote:
Several passengers said the pilot told them over the plane's intercom system after the incident that he had ignored a warning to stop when the plane began traveling faster than it is designed to.

This makes no sense. It doesn't even approach making sense.

Sounds like he was saying the crew aborted the takeoff at or near (and it sounds like over) V1. Oops if true.

And the crew really said too much.

EMAS may well have prevented a Bad Day at CRW.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11371 times:



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 20):
Sounds like he was saying the crew aborted the takeoff at or near (and it sounds like over) V1

Stopping 130 feet into the EMAS means that they probably would've went off the side of the hill had it not been there.

Definitely well over V1, and probably over Vr.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 20):
And the crew really said too much.

If what I think happened really happened, both pilots are, at the least, lose their jobs and possibly have their licenses suspended. So why not come clean?

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 20):
EMAS may well have prevented a Bad Day at CRW.

Anytime an airplane goes more than it's full length into EMAS, you know that they were going wayyyyy too fast.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineGreasemonkey From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11212 times:



Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 19):
don't know either, but perhaps it wasn't in proper take-off configuration, a warning came on, they ignored it (why, I don't know), and after exceeding their anticipated take-off speed initiated an abort.

Just saying, but if anyone looks at the pics, the flaps are not extended to the usual 8 degrees for T.O. For the CRJ, if you advance the throttles to a takeoff setting and the flaps are not configured correctly then you WILL get a CONFIG FLAPS aural message. It SHOULD NOT have taken the crew that long to realize their mistake. Submit your resumes to PSA...I'm sure there will be two open slots there soon.



It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11158 times:

Now they're saying they stopped 125 feet from the edge of the hill, which would put the airplane 300 feet into the EMAS.

If true, these guys will never fly for a commercial outfit again, if they manage to keep their certificates. That's outrageous. They had to be doing at least 80kts when they hit it, and with 200 ft skid marks on the runway probably aborted at 120-ish.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineGreasemonkey From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11118 times:



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
They had to be doing at least 80kts

They should have increased their speed by another 8kts and gone back in time to correct their configuration prior to takeoff.



It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.
25 Calibansa333 : Surprised the airlines haven't found a way to put this into the ticket prices yet. Exactly what I was going to say.
26 Bhmdiversion : By my rough estimate... 34 passengers = 6290 lbs. (no kids) 3 crew = 555 lbs. This is MY estimate - I do not know the correct weight and balance of th
27 Flyinryan99 : It looks like it will be closer to a couple of a million dollars as it is in further then I originally thought. A couple of million dollars or 30+ de
28 KcrwFlyer : CRJ's use flaps 20 here .. all day every day. Could they have retracted them once they stopped? There are conflicting reports. They stopped 125ft. fr
29 Post contains links and images Scotland1979 : Aircraft incident at Yeager Airport was N246PS View Large View MediumPhoto © Charin deSilva - CYOW Airport Watch
30 Woof : Yes but can a CRJ produce the necessary 1.21 gigawatts (make sure you pronounce this as jiga whats). ?
31 ClearedDirect : And assuming they chose the flux-capacitor option for the aircraft.... It will be interesting to read the cockpit transcript from the CVR when publis
32 KELPkid : Another question here... Would an EMAS arrested stop kick up chunks of debris which could be injested by the engines?
33 KcrwFlyer : I would assume so.
34 RL757PVD : It shouldn't, its a solid material that can support foot traffic and light equiptment without ot being damaged. When an aircraft goes off into an EMA
35 Post contains links Mainrunway : what do you guys make of this new picture of the used EMAS? http://wvgazette.com/News/201001200706
36 Mainrunway : 1000 ft of skid marks and that much damage to the EMAS......how fast were they going when they aborted??
37 KcrwFlyer : I thought it was closer to 2,000? Pretty fast apparently!
38 Greasemonkey : Just over 1900 ft long skid marks. Impressive considering that the tires didn't explode. Yes, I think all of us can safely say that this event raises
39 Post contains links Mainrunway : another story about the incident. more EMAS damage photos. http://www.dailymail.com/News/201001200524
40 Post contains links Mainrunway : Here's an aerial picture of what that EMAS area looked like before the accident..... http://yeagerairport.com/images/aerials%209-2-09%20020.jpg
41 Azjubilee : Seriously? Many of you are ALREADY citing crew error and calling for their jobs? Based on what? A photo? Did it ever occur to any of you people that p
42 Post contains links KcrwFlyer : Looks like they ferried the plane up to Bombardier in CKB today. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JIA9342
43 Post contains links Mainrunway : then on to DAY it would appear. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JIA9348
44 Flyinryan99 : Glad you stepped up...getting really annoying. There is a reason the EMAS is there for a reason. I was thinking...maybe the $15M to install this incl
45 Post contains links KcrwFlyer : Most of that price tag covered the cost of creating ALL of the land the EMAS sits on. Theres no approach lights on 5, just 23. You can see the previo
46 Lowrider : Slow down there a little. In a balanced field scenario, going off the paved portion of the runway during a high speed abort is not uncommon, even if
47 Post contains links KcrwFlyer : http://crankyflier.com/2010/01/22/34...ss-jet-in-west-virginia-love-emas/ The cranky flier posted a pretty funny article about the situation.
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