ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 5 months ago) and read 2190 times:
I was looking at the US Marshals page trying to find info on sky marshals on wiki and eventually stumbled on the TSA page and came across the criticisms and scandals....copied straight out of the page before someone messes with it...
The TSA has faced a high level of criticism since its inception. These criticisms include:
* Failure of TSA screeners to detect fake bombs brought through security by undercover TSA agents, with detection levels much lower than private security agents on the same tests. In the most recent tests, conducted in 2006, security screeners at LAX failed to identify 75% of fake bombs, while Chicago O'Hare screeners missed 60% of the bomb components. Private screeners in San Francisco missed only 20% of the prospective bomb parts.[15]
* Being composed entirely of people who were beneath the minimum requirements for military and law enforcement agencies.[citation needed]
* Invasive screening procedures, mistreatment of passengers, and sexual harassment by TSA officers.[16][17][18][19]
* “Mission creep” — conducting suspicionless preflight searches of passengers or their belongings for items other than weapons or explosives.[20]
* Engaging in security theater.[21][22]
* Theft by TSA employees.[23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30]
* Lavish spending by the TSA on events unrelated to airport security.[31]
* Sales of banned items collected from passengers.[32]
* TSA employees bypassing security checks.[33]
* Allegations of wasteful spending in its hiring practices.[34]
* Employees sleeping on the job.[35][36][37][38]
* Failure to use good judgment and common sense.[39][40][41]
* Security checkpoint problems at the 2009 Presidential Inauguration viewing areas, which left thousands of ticket holders excluded from the event and in dangerously overcrowded conditions.[48][49]
The cases presented...the TSA failed to detect fake bombs......at a rate lower than their private predecessors...When I see the TSA, I see a huge bureaucratic mass...it's as if you took the people from the DMV and threw them at the airport checkpoints....what really left a sour taste in my mouth was when we where going to RDU from SAN last September...and I kid you not, this happened at SAN airport...my 17 year old sister had just cleared the metal detector and was starting to put her shoes and belt back on and a rather portly female TSA screener came to her and told her she was selected for a random check...we all had to wait in front of the escalators while she ran a wand on her and then searched her purse and carry-on bag....after she had already cleared the metal detectors....why is it that for example me returning home to the states after visiting IST on TK to ORD last March having to go through 4 or so document checks and 3 metal detectors you think would be a nuisance...but it wasn't...the professionalism and organization made all the difference... what do you guys think about the TSA?
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2136 times:
I think there needs to be more public outrage about it. Basically, the message to politicians needs to be "TSA goes or you go."
Unfortunately, there isn't public outrage about it and instead, every time a terrorist goes "boo!" we all sink into a pit of panic and self-destructive behavior.
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1972 times:
Quoting Francoflier (Reply 2): It's interesting (yet not surprising) to read that private securitiy companies achieved better performance during tests than the TSA...
To me, this argument alone enforces that the TSA was a mistake...
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1873 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1931 times:
The emperor has no clothes people.
Until we as citizens stand up and say we won't be treated like criminals just for flying, we'll have the TSA.
Classic government response to anything though, create a committee or huge bureaucratic organization to spread the blame in case anything goes wrong again.
--
I tell those assholes every time I go through security what I think of them.
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1921 times:
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 4): I tell those assholes every time I go through security what I think of them.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1918 times:
Quoting ThegreatRDU (Thread starter): * Being composed entirely of people who were beneath the minimum requirements for military and law enforcement agencies
That's garbage because I know individuals who went from Iraq in the Marine Corps to the TSA, they did not stay long and ended up going to the DOJ and ICE because TSA is not Law enforcement and pays crap. If the TSA were to be a legit law enforcement gig the budget would be astronomical, they would be entitled to early retirement, compressed schedules etc..
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1729 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 7): That's garbage because I know individuals who went from Iraq in the Marine Corps to the TSA, they did not stay long and ended up going to the DOJ and ICE because TSA is not Law enforcement and pays crap. If the TSA were to be a legit law enforcement gig the budget would be astronomical, they would be entitled to early retirement, compressed schedules etc..
They were given the Federal Air Marshals to be more credible....but c'mon....
Quoting Francoflier (Reply 2):
It's interesting (yet not surprising) to read that private securitiy companies achieved better performance during tests than the TSA...
To me, this argument alone enforces that the TSA was a mistake...
Couldn't agree more. Creating a massive, low paid bureaucracy won't work anywhere.
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1608 times:
Quoting Slinky09 (Reply 9): Couldn't agree more. Creating a massive, low paid bureaucracy won't work anywhere.
Agreed, look at the other government run messes....Amtrak..the EAS...USPS...The Prisons...I am more convinced that TSA was a political move..
JER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1494 times:
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 4): I tell those assholes every time I go through security what I think of them.
10 points... exactly the correct way to go about things!
I'm not saying I think the TSA are a wonderful organisation, but the problems come from the top. The problems are in the training, management, procedures and ethos. Not the people on the front line.
If you really want to get something done, complain to TSA management, or the government. Don't act like a child and tell those 'assholes' what you think of them. It only gets peoples' backs up, and could potentially land you in it with SSSS being stuck on your boarding card more often than not.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
Quoting JER757 (Reply 11): If you really want to get something done, complain to TSA management,
Most managers, at least on the ground at the airports, don't care.
The ones that do (JAX is probably the best example) run really, really good operations.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 44 Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1409 times:
Quoting JER757 (Reply 11): Don't act like a child and tell those 'assholes' what you think of them. It only gets peoples' backs up, and could potentially land you in it with SSSS being stuck on your boarding card more often than not.
That's right. The best way to do it is to use the power of democracy (ie, voting).
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1389 times:
Quoting Cpd (Reply 13): That's right. The best way to do it is to use the power of democracy (ie, voting).
Yes, but are both Republicans and Democrats willing to dissolve the TSA? I don't think so, at least judging from recent years. The Republican Bush Administration established the TSA, and the Democratic Obama Administration doesn't seem to be doing anything to either disband the TSA, or to make/propose important reforms that may even reduce the TSA to a bureaucracy that would only supervise airport security done by other companies and puts guidelines/regulations for airport security in place, much like what the FAA does to aviation in the United States for example. I fear the TSA, as it is, is here to stay, none of the major parties seem to be willing to do anything to improve it.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1362 times:
Problem One:
TSA isn't a law enforcement agency. If TSA screeners had to have the background and abilities that was required of sworn officers permitted to carry firearms, we would probalby have much better screening and a higher level of professionalism.
Problem Two:
There is a belief that the government can handle security better than the private sector. Wrong!
In Chicago, the security at the U.S. courthouse, the Dirksen Federal Building, is handled by a private service under the direction of the U.S. Marshal. The Marshals Service is responsible for security at all federal courthouses and many other federal buildings.
The Marshals Service screens potential employees and supervises training. The only Marshals you will see in the Dirksen Building will be taking criminal defendants to and from the federal lock-up, or if a trial needs extra security (drug lord, Mafia, etc.,)
All the security people are former cops or MPs, and they all carry firearms. In fact, nearly 20 years ago, a security person got into a shoot out with a criminal defendant who had gotten a deputy marshal's firearm. Both the security person and the defendant wound up dead, but the security person prevented the murder of a federal judge!!!
If we had people like this handling security at airports, I would feel a lot better.
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1335 times:
Well you have to remember why the TSA was created in the first place. The original private security companies were not that great or worse then the present TSA. These people were grossly underpaid and overworked. And the same flying public complained about them too. You are not going to get a professional force without more pay & bennies. Why would someone who has the type of skills (aka retired military or law enforcement) go into the TSA, where they can make a lot more money in the other areaas of the private sector like corporate security and the like.
We get what we pay for, and going to have to live with it............
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 15): There is a belief that the government can handle security better than the private sector. Wrong!
In Chicago, the security at the U.S. courthouse, the Dirksen Federal Building, is handled by a private service under the direction of the U.S. Marshal. The Marshals Service is responsible for security at all federal courthouses and many other federal buildings.
That's a rarity. These people are definitely getting paid more in deference to their skills. Plus this company has to be throughly vetted by the Marshals Service, because they have to work side by side with them. That's a small case. The TSA is now a large agency with many employees and a lot of airports to protect. Who else do you want to do this thankless job? Unless you are willing to pay more for it.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2278 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1282 times:
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 16): Well you have to remember why the TSA was created in the first place. The original private security companies were not that great or worse then the present TSA.
No...they were tested and the TSA were continually worse than their private predecessors in finding and detecting fake bombs and firearms....
Fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7048 posts, RR: 92 Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1254 times:
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1184 times:
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 16): The TSA is now a large agency with many employees and a lot of airports to protect. Who else do you want to do this thankless job? Unless you are willing to pay more for it.
Do the private screeners at MCI and SFO cost more?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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