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The Misery Of Flying - CNN  
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

An excellent article, imo, on CNN. I think it pretty well sums things up.

For the first time in many years I'm planning my spring vacation - and it doesn't include flying. I guess that says it all, except that there are a lot of places I had hoped to visit that I'll probably never see.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/01/20...flying.hassles/index.html?hpt=Sbin


Flying Colors Forever!
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCrewchief From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13475 times:

I agree. Last night my family reached a consensus on how to address the dizzying range and increasing number of commercial flying annoyances: we're buying a family airplane.

We're doing that not because of any one issue. Each annoyance is small. Cumulatively, however, they are immense.

For business, I've made more use of trains, cars, and virtual meetings. I'm working towards cutting out commercial air entirely.

It's a shame; flying commercial used to put a smile on my face. Now I dread having to do it. I eagerly await a change in both the airlines and the TSA. Something needs to be done to make air travel desireable once again.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13422 times:



Quoting Crewchief (Reply 1):
I agree. Last night my family reached a consensus on how to address the dizzying range and increasing number of commercial flying annoyances: we're buying a family airplane.

And you are lucky enough to live in the States, where flying for yourself is so much easier. In Europe, taking a skytaxi is almost the only option if you want to avoid the airline fuss. And sitting cramped for 4 hours in a small Cirrus SR22 isn't the nicest way to travel either.

A guy I know owns a TBM850 to fly to his factories in Poland. It works for him, and he even sometimes flies together with his family to Italy or Egypt, but he is the first to admit it's a far from ideal situation.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13290 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 2):

I try to mix my travels via the 182 and the airlines. Lately, I've been paying a little extra to fly out of the smaller airports (TOL, RIC, etc) to skip the hassel of the long security lines. Usually through the smaller airports I'm through security in 5 to 10 minutes. I came through BWI last week and it was 35 minutes through security and the TSA didn't have all of the lines open (still had 2 they could open up). Personally, I think that's the ridiculous part about it. While I understand the TSA has a job to do and for the most part, I think they do a decent job, they need to make it more expiditious when they have the ability too (opening up more lines). Also, instead of barking out orders, they could be nicer - "Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, please have...." instead of "Do this, do that, blah blah blah." Every time I hear that, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about them. ::rant over::

[Edited 2010-01-21 07:40:24 by flyinryan99]

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17424 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13245 times:

Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCmk10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13125 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.

Couldn't have said it better myself  bigthumbsup 



"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
User currently offlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13116 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it.

It's not their fault, but grin and bear it is not their only choice. The TSA foolishness is delivering surly and irritated passengers to the airline, which directly affects their abilty to produce a good travel experience, and indirectly affects their bottom line.

The airlines should start a PR campaign to put the TSA in its place, and to get them out of the security theater business. Such a campaign, properly done, would have the secondary benefit of addressing many peoples' fear of flying; I'm always amazed by the number of occasional travelers who apparently think that an airplane is not much stronger than a beer can, and any hole will make it rip open and spew everything out.



Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.

Absolutely and the majority of poster's so far are American's. This is interesting because pre 9/11 you guys had so much freedom to come and go as you please but now you have to contend with TSA ............security measures that the rest of us have had to deal with for years. Ok, TSA can be a little over the top and flying everywhere has become that little bit more stressful but I think this is more apparent in the US..................many other parts of the World have endured terrorist threats in our homelands for years.

What i'm trying to say is.....whilst flying isn't as enjoyable and care free as it once was, you really need to be highly strung for it to put you off flying and visiting the places you really want to visit.

[Edited 2010-01-21 08:26:58]


Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13011 times:

Security doesn't have to be delivered in such accusitive tones or made to feel like an invasion of privacy. Luton airport, the last time I went through, actually made it entertaining and it was still thorough.

I fly once or twice on business and that's enough for me. My leisure travel is all train, car or boats these days. Flying is too much of a hassle and current security strips the fun out of flying.


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

The title had me believing that the thread was about the misery of having CNN blaring throughout airports which is something that bugs me. Oh well. I would love it if CNN was limited to similar rooms like smoking is making it easier to hold a conversation or simply read in peace.

User currently offlineCrewchief From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12957 times:

Maverick11, I'm not laying blame on anyone. I am saying that irrespective of price I'm making a choice to use other means of transportation.

And price has nothing to do with it. I'd rather pay for my own plane than take a $68 flight to Florida. The annoyances are that bad.

The issue isn't violins, either. If enough people don't buy tickets the industry is in deep trouble. That's the issue. This could be the only industry witnessing demand destuction with deeply discounted prices.

I want the industry to prosper. I don't think it can do that well in the current environment.

Do you think the industry is prospering, with the present annoyances?


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12925 times:



Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3):
While I understand the TSA has a job to do and for the most part, I think they do a decent job, they need to make it more expiditious when they have the ability too (opening up more lines). Also, instead of barking out orders, they could be nicer - "Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, please have...." instead of "Do this, do that, blah blah blah." Every time I hear that, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about them

I can¿'t stand waiting in line for 30-40 minutes. It's their job to make our safety their priority, and that's completely fine with me. Rudeness, well, that's another issue, and TSA really raises the bar that area. They should get a little training in CRM, now that most of the job is done by machines.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 7):
many other parts of the World have endured terrorist threats in our homelands for years.

I've been used to security lines in airports as long as I can remember. Is just part of my life, and basically, I'm glad is done, makes me feel safer when flying.

If you really want to enjoy flying, well, security lines will be part of the equation everywhere nowadays, so start choosing good airlines and even consider paying more, because at the end of the day, I just enjoy my time in the aircraft, not the hassle and lines before and after the flight.

Cheers


777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinePeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12863 times:

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 10):
I'd rather pay for my own plane than take a $68 flight to Florida

It's all relative. Are you talking a Cessna 172 "crawling" through the sky or a private jet? Even for airplane owners, not every trip is feasible to do on your own. A lot of factors come in to play here.

When we put things in perspective, is it really all that bad? Have you ever "wasted" a few hours watching a terrible football game? Once the airplane door closes and the plane is airborne, we are whisked from point A to point B very fast.

If I had to fly to work every Monday, 52 weeks out of the year, I'd probably move. What's the point?
My point being: We have choices. It's the person's choice to commute to work every Monday. But there are consequences. Either put up or shut up.

[Edited 2010-01-21 08:59:35]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7773 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12807 times:



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 7):
Absolutely and the majority of poster's so far are American's. This is interesting because pre 9/11 you guys had so much freedom to come and go as you please but now you have to contend with TSA ............security measures that the rest of us have had to deal with for years. Ok, TSA can be a little over the top and flying everywhere has become that little bit more stressful but I think this is more apparent in the US..................many other parts of the World have endured terrorist threats in our homelands for years.

I think that is a valid point. But then I've never really stood in really long security lines post-9/11. In recent memory I cannot recall waiting more than 15 minutes to clear security. This includes large busy airports like EWR, IAD, DCA, and PHX.

Frankly I would argue that what makes air travel miserable is my fellow travelers. Those folks that seem to check out the moment they arrive at the airport, that aren't paying attention as they get up to security, that meander throughout the terminal like they were at shopping mall, carry everything and their kitchen sink, and seem to have a general lack of awareness of others.

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 1):
we're buying a family airplane.

I think that is a rather extreme approach IMHO. But if you and your family travel enough and can afford it more power to you.

Quoting Crewchief (Reply 10):
I want the industry to prosper. I don't think it can do that well in the current environment.

Do you think the industry is prospering, with the present annoyances?

I think there is a lot that is unsustainable in the current environment for airlines. And I would suspect that there is more shaking up yet to come.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12758 times:

The only thing that bothers me is bag fees. I think that is the most counterproductive thing the industry could have done. It makes people unhappy even though they got a good deal.

The industry would do better if they remove the uncertainty about stowing your bag. The bag fees appear to be magic money, but I don't think it comes for free.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6793 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12667 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.

Amen.

Time for another reminder from Louis CK too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOtEQB-9tvk


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12587 times:

Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.
 checkmark 

Air travel is still the best deal around. If you learn a little about it and plan carefully, you can minimize expenses and inconvenience. I'll still take air travel over the car or the train any day when possible, hands down.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12578 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Here we go again; somebody hand me a violin. Travelers are paying about half as much as they used to pre deregulation, even with fees. Airlines' schedules and networks have exploded, and it has never been easier to get where you want to go, when you want to go. It's not the airlines' fault the TSA redefines stupidity, but airlines' only choice is to grin and bear it. It's not that bad people.

I disagree. I mean, you're very correct, but I disagree with the sentiment that it's a good thing. Flying is considerably cheaper than it used to be, and networks have indeed exploded, but compared to what we have sacrificed?

-On-board service is abysmal at best when compared to the 1950s and 1960s, and we have considerably better technology and customer service methods today!

-To add to the point above, the overall experience of flying was something to be immensely excited about. Customer service was terrific because workers were paid greater than they are today, and there was a stronger sense of pride. There is a very strong lack of respect and pride among the aviation industry when compared to the 1950s and 1960s. Perhaps this could be attributed to the above.

-Airlines are losing billions of dollars every year (though that has changed recently thanks to the advent of nickel and diming, again something that greatly hinders the pride and respect issues) because they don't/can't charge enough to cover the expenses. There's simply too much competition.

Sure, flying is cheaper now than it's ever have been. But is it really worth it? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I disagree. Ultimately this comes down to a matter of opinion, and it's just my two cents.

That said, I don't really favor re-regulation, because I have doubts any of the above would change. The only thing I could see really changing is that airlines would charge enough to cover the costs of flying, but I have strong doubts that the issue of pride and respect could ever come back.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12540 times:

Sorry, rereading my post above, I'm not sure I made my point clearly. I suppose what I mean to say is that if it came to it, I'd rather pay the higher costs and fly less, if it meant that flying could be like it is in the 50's and 60's (and I don't mean the issues of sexism or cramped props flying cross country because like I said, things have changed on that front).

I know you can make the argument "Well just fly first class". But the thing is, the issue extends beyond the service operated by the airline. It seems like everytime I go to the airport, people just feel more and more miserable everytime. Passengers are generally unhappy, customer service agents seem generally unhappy. Everything just has this low, sad and depressing mood all over the airport and onboard, and it's due to this general feeling that everything about flying just sucks.

Being given a nice seat and a meal doesn't change that.

Again, not saying there's anything we can do to change it. I just don't see deregulation as an "improvement" to the overall industry.

[Edited 2010-01-21 10:26:35]

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12470 times:

One of our favorite a.net arguments, I guess this is this week's installment.  Smile

The only thing I could see really changing is that airlines would charge enough to cover the costs of flying, but I have strong doubts that the issue of pride and respect could ever come back.....Again, not saying there's anything we can do to change it. I just don't see deregulation as an "improvement" to the overall industry.

With respect, I disagree; Deregulation has been an extremely good thing. More people able to fly is better. The argument that you can fly first class holds. You ae free to pay more and get a somewhat bigger seat and more pitch. Somehow I generally miss out on 'misery,' I fly through very busy airports regularly, and very few people I deal with treat me poorly. Almost all are professional and treat me very well. Of course it probably helps that I try to smile and be kind. Yes, we're all doing more with less. That's life these days.

We can all put more pride and respect in air travel regardless of its cost structure or inconveniences. High volume does not mean that people can't dress well and be courteous. I don't mean we all need to wear suits--just nice khakis and a good shirt, as one example. Each of us can contribute those things and be an example. And try to enjoy the experience of getting into the air, which really is a marvel, no matter how regularly we do it.

Again, with respect, this is not intended to be snarky--if you don't think fares are high enough, talk to investors. They continue to invest in airlines. There are plenty of upward pressures on airfares, as we all know. It's about time that passengers had some power, via the internet and the presence of strong low-fare carriers, to exert some downward pressure back.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12470 times:



Quoting Airport (Reply 18):
It seems like everytime I go to the airport, people just feel more and more miserable everytime.

That's because it has more and more started to look like a trainstation. And that again is because airtravel more and more gets the status of a busride. And you know why that happened? Because LCCs started to exist.

Quoting Slider (Reply 15):
Time for another reminder from Louis CK too....

Didn't know that one. Brilliant! Big grin



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12319 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 20):
That's because it has more and more started to look like a trainstation. And that again is because airtravel more and more gets the status of a busride. And you know why that happened? Because LCCs started to exist.

I have been in train stations, and on bus rides, and IMO airports are much, much, MUCH more annoying than either. We are way past the annoyance level of trains or buses, and it has nothing to do with the presence of LCC's.

I flew during the regulation era, and I've flown in the 90's before the Travel Suppression Agency existed, and I've flown recently. And they are three very different experiences. I am happy that deregulation happened, and I'm quite willing to trade the spiffy 1960's experience for (much) lower prices and air access. I'm NOT happy about going through the TSA crap every single time I need to fly, and I've taken to actively looking for alternatives. Fortunately my job has changed such that I am traveling much less than I was 2-3 years ago.



Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12319 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 20):
That's because it has more and more started to look like a trainstation. And that again is because airtravel more and more gets the status of a busride. And you know why that happened? Because LCCs started to exist.

But you could argue that flying is little more than a bus ride. It's a means of getting from A to B. As much as us enthusiasts and our rose tinted spectacle friends hate to admit .....that is ultimately what it is.

I certainly don't want to return to the elitist age of air travel. Today people travel by air more than they ever have done. Sure they moan from time to time about extra fee's, this that and the other but ultimately it is they who "shop" for cheap fares and it is they who have demanded what we have today. The industry has just responded.

We'd all like to be treated like royalty and have full blown complimentary service lavished on us but simply not enough of us are willing to pay for it. Sure, some people will be but that isn't enough to keep an airline afloat.

LCC's meanwhile have actually given some enthusiasts the gift of large jet aircraft at their local airport whilst the airport have benefitted (despite demands from the airlines) when previously they were on their knee's. For the passenger, regardless of who we are, how much we earn, social class.....we all fly more than we ever use to.

Airports do not resemble a train station.......but their utility is little more than a train station. It's a termini.

I wouldn't dream in saying that travelling by air doesn't have it's negative points these days I remember that people out there are attempting to blow aircraft out of the sky and whilst the risk is fairly minimal it only takes the terrorists to be lucky once and people lose loved ones. I agree completely with someone else............leave plenty of time and have some patience but things aren't really all that bad. So what if you have an over zealous TSA representative just forget about it and keep going.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 12015 times:

I too have pretty much given up on flying, at least when there is a suitable ground transportation option available.

I've stopped flying MIA-NYC not only because of all the security hassles, but also because (and this is the main reason) that 9 times out of 10, they load us onto the plane, push us back, taxi to a remote waiting area, and we then sit out the ATC delay waiting for a slot to open up... usually for 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours.

I am at the point where I am just so fed up with this charade that I now take Amtrak. I end up losing about 3 hours of being in the office compared to flying, but it works out well for me as I can relax, use my wireless internet card and access the internet for email and even conducting video conferencing. I get a personal compartment with my own bed, bathroom and sink and am truly a happy camper!

By the way, in case someone questions how I only lose about 3 hours of working time, here's how it works:

When flying: Leave home 9:30am.... for 11:30am flight. The 11:30am flight has a mx delay, resulting in a 1 hour delay. Finally push back. It is now scheduled to land right in the middle of the late afternoon rush into NYC. Advised of 2 hour ground stop. Take off at 2:30pm. Land in NYC at 5:15pm. 1 hour wait for baggage. 45 minute taxi to hotel, arrive in hotel room at 7pm. Leave for office 9am the next morning.

With Amtrak: Leave home 8:00am, train leaves Miami 8:40am... arrives in NYC at 11:15am next morning. Get off train, taxi to office, in office at noon.

Of course, I'll still have to fly on my MIA-LAX trips, but those tend to not be as harrowing as the flights up to NYC.

Interesting side note: I am a million miler on AA and they noticed my flying has dropped of considerably in 2009. I got a phone call from them asking if there was any problem I was having with AA which would account for me scaling back my travelling.

I told them no, it wasn't really AA, but the delay situation (which I described above).

So, I want to make clear, this is not a rant against AA.. rather, just the state of flying in the USA (and particularly into NYC) in general.

[Edited 2010-01-21 12:33:30]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 11924 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3):
Also, instead of barking out orders, they could be nicer - "Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, please have...." instead of "Do this, do that, blah blah blah." Every time I hear that, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about them.

At MSN and MKE, I've consistently been impressed with the courtesy and friendliness of TSA agents. But then, I think that can be attributed more to their Wisconsin roots than any training received by the TSA...

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 9):
the misery of having CNN blaring throughout airports which is something that bugs me.

The solution is only nine dollars: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/9a06/

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
The only thing that bothers me is bag fees. I think that is the most counterproductive thing the industry could have done.

I think bag fees are a great idea. I never check bags, so from my perspective, there are two options. Either I A) pay a slightly higher ticket price, thus subsidizing the transport of other people's bags, or B) the people checking bags pay for the transport of their bags out of their own pocket.



Intentionally Left Blank
25 BrouAviation : It wasn't always that way. The way you are talking we could even state a cruise is nothing more than a busride. It's also getting from A to B. So? It
26 SolarFlyer22 : There are a lot of problems but to be honest any destination within 600 miles should be served by high speed rail which our country does not have. I t
27 N62NA : Forgot about that. Parking at Amtrak is free! (And in a secured lot).
28 FlyDeltaJets87 : I've taken 14 trips in the last 12 months all over the country and most of my complaints have been directly related to the experience at the airport,
29 MBMBOS : Rules, rules, rules, rules. Next time you take a flight count the number of rules your encounter from the pull-up lane to the point where arrive at yo
30 Peanuts : I can understand your frustrations completely. Don't forget why most rules were enacted: The Few. The Few IDIOTS ruin it for the normal, common sense
31 Flighty : Yeah OK, true, it is a shame the government won't regulate the traffic problems in NYC airspace. That is definitely a harm to citizens, and a source
32 MD-90 : I fail to see how flying your own TBM 850 isn't the ideal situation, if you can afford it (especially given the cost of flying in Europe).
33 UAL747 : I don't mind any of the patting down (which happened almost 6 times during my recent trip to Turkey via FRA), it's the taking off the shoes. Look, I'm
34 BubbaJin : We can sit here all day and complain about TSA and going through their security lines. TSA at the security lines have a job to do and that is to ensur
35 Lightsaber : What is funny is that it is the LCC's that keep flying fun. I hear people bagging on them in this thread, but B6 from LGB is still fun! But LAX has be
36 PITingres : But that is the whole point of my argument. They AREN'T keeping you safe. It's all a total waste of time and resources. Some of what the TSA does beh
37 Post contains links PlaneAdmirer : Here is some one who has a legitimate complaint against TSA: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo..._was_no_joke_at_security_gate.html What happened t
38 413x3 : just think, 100 years ago CNN would come out with "The misery of sailing" we have it so good today
39 PlaneWasted : Flying in America is not bad. My home carrier (SAS) don't give anything for free, not even water, in the US i get a coke and a coffee for free. The ti
40 Acabgd : As we would say in Europe: Terrorists vs The World 2:0
41 IRelayer : My sentiments exactly. Yes we all know flying is a pain these days, and a lot more "inconvenient" then it perhaps once was in some mythical "golden a
42 Ckfred : When I was a kid, I had to endure 14-hour drives from Chicago to southeast Kansas to see relatives. Coming back, I lost most of the back seats to eit
43 BrouAviation : Have you actually ever flown yourself in Europe? Owning an aircraft here is not attractive because of a few things: - Status. When you own an aircraf
44 Calibansa333 : So you would rather pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to maintain, fuel and store your own airplane than pay a lousy $68? That seems a little r
45 Acabgd : I know this is off-topic, but I never undestood why people who have money to fly their own plane don't simply set up a secondary residence in the US
46 BrouAviation : Because then you have to hold an American FAA flying license. Some people indeed do, especially for flying warbirds, but when you want an additional
47 Fxramper : Don't come on an aviation website and cry about how you won't be flying this year because of all the 'hassle'. Don't want to spend an extra 60 seconds
48 Kappel : First, I'd like to say that I still LOVE flying. I fly about 2-5 times per year and enjoy every minute of it. My first flight was on a DC-8-55 in 1981
49 Crewchief : Lightsaber rephrased my question well: are the annoyances hitting airline revenue? Yes, we have wonders like widespread route systems and rock bottom
50 SSTsomeday : I think it's correct to say "we get what we pay for," but I don't think that we can say the overall experience has not eroded substantially. Even if
51 N62NA : I agree with you 100%. And thanks for a very good, and detailed post.
52 Post contains links Lightsaber : I was going to argue very differently before I found this link: http://www.airlinefinancials.com/uploads/08_lg_CH_7-13.pdf I'm going to digest the num
53 Alwaysontherun : That would very much depend on where you are and where you intend to go. In Europe and parts of Asia the (high speed) train is becoming a serious com
54 Mayor : You've heard about the economy, correct?? It was in all the papers. And you base this on what?
55 Braybuddy : From the article: Tucker dreads booking her flights for the month ahead, she said, because she automatically thinks about the four Mondays she'll have
56 Kappel : These things can all be avoided by booking with the right carrier (when available of course). There are still plenty of carriers out there that don't
57 Ckfred : Actually, it is annoying as hell, when people ahead of you don't understand how to breeze through security. I was in the elite AA line at ORD this pas
58 FrmrCAPCADET : TSA knows almost to a person how many people will be arriving at a given time. Each person has paid for the cost of security. There should be almost N
59 Lightsaber : The economy today is still larger than 2001. You did hear how good the economy was in 2003 through 2007. Why was that air travel market smaller than
60 Mayor : I think the economy went in the tank for the airlines, long before it did for the rest of the country.....certainly not helped by 9/11, but then agai
61 Dfambro : I don't know your daughter, but it's not nearly as bad as you think. Between ages 1 and 4 my daughter did three pacific crossings, two atlantic cross
62 Gweilo88 : As an American who has been living overseas for almost 20 years, I have made big changes in my travel habits in the past several years because it has
63 Skydrol : Excellent, detailed post, and it sums up the experience very well. A LOT of folks are fed up with the shit; be it delays, security restrictions, serv
64 Mayor : Well, the TSA won't care.......they'll still have jobs, somewhere.
65 SSTsomeday : Yes, EK, SQ, I've heard they are great but.... unfortunately none of them are available for North American domestic travel...
66 Kappel : I believe this thread is about flying in general, not just in your corner of the world. And not only about domestic travel, but also international tr
67 Mayor : The original CNN article was almost exclusively about flying in the United States, if you read the entire thing.
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