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What Will Cfrp Planes Do For The Cash Flow?  
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

I was reading in another thread a post that mentioned how much composites have changed the glider industry as far as consolidation goes. If a given airframe lasts X times longer than the current Al frames, then how often will airlines need to place orders and what will that do for the cash flow of Airbus/Boeing?? With the dramatic drop in fatigue with CFRP/Composites vs. Al, what will need to be replaced on the airplanes? Engines? Smaller, lesser expensive parts (relatively speaking)?? Should be interesting to see how just how much CFRP really will revolutionize the aircraft industry.


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
5 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

Since I was the one that was quoted, let me throw this in:

Unlike sailplanes, powered aircraft have far more complex systems, even at the low end. Those systems will age and need to be replaced eventually if the airframe is to soldier on. To what extent that will possible or practical, who knows right now.

One thing we do know -- re-engining 787s will be easy compared to anything else so far.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1892 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
Unlike sailplanes, powered aircraft have far more complex systems, even at the low end. Those systems will age and need to be replaced eventually if the airframe is to soldier on. To what extent that will possible or practical, who knows right now.

The OP has been referenced before... and it is a valid point. When you consider that the 787 and A350 can be considered as 1.0, next gen will be quite a bit more advanced across the entire spectrum. Undoubtedly the aircraft will be more electric and will require mainly exception (on-demand) maintenance. Much like engines are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see the airframers eventually never selling their aircraft and charging "by the hour" to maintain a revenue stream.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1876 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
Unlike sailplanes, powered aircraft have far more complex systems, even at the low end. Those systems will age and need to be replaced eventually if the airframe is to soldier on. To what extent that will possible or practical, who knows right now.

If the electrical system is well-engineered, and designed to hold up over time (i.e. no galvanic issues at points where the connections go from, say, copper to aluminum), I predict better longevity from a systems point of view.

The thing that always scares me, though, with as much embedded computers as something like a FBW aircraft has, is what happens 20-30 years down the road when computers (as in, one circuit board with a processor and some programming on it) just crap out one day. Will the components to repair the circuit board and return the part to service still be around? If a replacement based on more modern compents is needed, will someone be around to reverse engineer the old part to create a functionally equivalent replacement? How has this worked out on, say, early delivery A320's? I'm sure Airbus has come up with a few functionally equivalent replacement parts since the first ones were delivered...  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1848 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
If the electrical system is well-engineered, and designed to hold up over time (i.e. no galvanic issues at points where the connections go from, say, copper to aluminum), I predict better longevity from a systems point of view.

Don't worry... it will all be FBL and/or wireless.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
The thing that always scares me, though, with as much embedded computers as something like a FBW aircraft has, is what happens 20-30 years down the road when computers (as in, one circuit board with a processor and some programming on it) just crap out one day.

It will all be COTS with distributed plug n' play architecture.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1790 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
Since I was the one that was quoted, let me throw this in:

Yes and thanks for sparking the thought in my brain. I didn't know if it was ok to use your username, and I also didn't want to take credit for the discussion point, so I just mentioned the post in another thread. You brought up a very interesting point. Thanks  checkmark 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
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