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IB New Routes And Frequencies  
User currently offlineIBA346 From France, joined Jan 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9403 times:

OK, I am a new member and this is my first post. I have been reading a.net for some months, so I hope I have got the hang of it. Please be nice!

Press release on IB website with updates on network over the coming year from the MAD hub:

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/g...ef90156210VgnVCM200000940216ac____


Highlights:

- The press release includes previously announced increases in frequency and capacity to LIM, BOG, UIO/ GYE, EZE, HAV. There has not been any discussion on a.net of these, except at the tail end of the thread on Air Comet’s demise.
- IB restarting routes to IAD for the summer and increased frequencies to BOS. Previous discussion a.net seemed to suggest these routes were going, and would eventually be taken over by AA with smaller 757s once ATI had been secured
- Start of new summer routes to AMM and DAM. Good to see this expansion of MAD hub, but low frequencies and summer only for now it appears. Also Amman is served already by RJ with IB codeshare
- Restarting of other summer routes to DBV, ZAG and St Petersburg
- Increased frequencies to MUC and FRA

My thoughts:

- IB seems to be taking full advantage of Air Comet's disappearance, and will consolidate their lead in Central and South America ahead of AF/KL
- It’s a surprise not to see the start of direct PTY flights, which has been rumoured, and would seem all the more urgent now that Air Europa are starting direct flights from MAD
- Good to see IB not giving up on IAD and BOS
- They never mention the cuts, and no doubt IB is still cutting its domestic network heavily and maybe elsewhere. Nonetheless some consolidation and expansion in the IB medium and long haul network quite soon after the downturn.

[Edited 2010-01-22 15:30:23]

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9358 times:

I think theres probably a good chance IB will take over for AA at DFW after ATI.

DFW-MAD needs a high capacity plane. AA's 763 doesnt have enough seats and AA's 777 has an F cabin which is unnecesary.

IB's 343 would be perfect for it.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAlwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9332 times:



Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
OK, I am a new member and this is my first post

Well, welcome to this site full of wingdings, fanatic Airbus / Boeing haters, judgmental people, armchair experts..........uhm, yes; generally a very peculiar bunch..............but welcome!

Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
Please be nice!

I will definitely try.

Thanks for posting, very interesting!
The increased frequencies to Latin America is what effects me and I´m loving it already.

Merci, and keep up the good work!

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9248 times:



Quoting Alwaysontherun (Reply 2):
Well, welcome to this site full of wingdings, fanatic Airbus / Boeing haters, judgmental people, armchair experts..........uhm, yes; generally a very peculiar bunch..............but welcome!

You are pretty young here to start that type of rhetoric aren't you?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
DFW-MAD needs a high capacity plane. AA's 763 doesnt have enough seats and AA's 777 has an F cabin which is unnecesary.

I agree with you here. Considering the close connection AA is going to have with IB, I think their 343 is the perfect aircraft for the route. I think 2 763 would be overkill, and a 777 has too much premium. But I've noticed more that AA would rather cover a lot routes rather than it's partners based in the destination country do so. Seems they like as much silver than can get a DFW.

UAL


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9183 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
But I've noticed more that AA would rather cover a lot routes rather than it's partners based in the destination country do so. Seems they like as much silver than can get a DFW.

The other issue with IB flying MAD-DFW besides the one you point out is that route carries a lot more passengers originating in the USA and DFW specifically than from Spain or MAD. The reason that's relevant is that the IB brand is not as strong or reputable in the USA as say BA, AF, LH, KL or VS (even among among a lot of AA FFs), with the exception of South Florida where almost half of the population has Spanish roots of some kind. So on MAD-DFW its doubtful whether IB could pull in more passengers than AA currently does in order to perform well on an A343.

[Edited 2010-01-22 15:56:47]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9166 times:



Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
- IB restarting routes to IAD for the summer and increased frequencies to BOS. Previous discussion a.net seemed to suggest these routes were going, and would eventually be taken over by AA with smaller 757s once ATI had been secured

I still expect this to happen. It cannot happen yet because ATI has not been approved.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 4):

The other issue with IB flying MAD-DFW besides the one you point out is that route carries a lot more passengers originating in the USA and DFW specifically than from Spain or MAD. The reason that's relevant is that the IB brand is not as strong or reputable in the USA as say BA, AF, LH, KL or VS (even among among a lot of AA FFs). So its doubtful whether IB could pull in more passengers than AA currently does in order to perform well on an A343.

The brand is, however, irrelevant with ATI. The majority of seats will indeed be U.S.-originating and sold on the AA* code. With ATI, AA/IB operate the route as one.



a.
User currently offlineAlwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9096 times:



Quoting Alwaysontherun (Reply 2):
judgmental people, armchair experts..........uhm, yes; generally a very peculiar bunch..............

I rest my case:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):

You are pretty young here to start that type of rhetoric aren't you?

No I am not..........but that is a long story.
Things are not always what they seem................

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 8851 times:
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Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
The press release includes previously announced increases in frequency and capacity to LIM, BOG, UIO/ GYE, EZE, HAV. There has not been any discussion on a.net of these, except at the tail end of the thread on Air Comet’s demise

That's very smart considering some of these routes are very profitable. Good to see EZE goint to 17x weekly !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8687 times:



Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
- It%u2019s a surprise not to see the start of direct PTY flights, which has been rumoured, and would seem all the more urgent now that Air Europa are starting direct flights from MAD

Welcome to the forum.

I don't think PTY-MAD nonstop is a high priority. IMO it does not have room for more than 4x weekly non-stops (which is what UX is flying), since the loads are not necessarily there (low VFR, still not that much tourism from Spain, and relatively low density of expatriates and first/second generation Spanish living in Panama). And while PTY has great connections to the rest of the continent, they're mostly to places IB already flies and are on CM which is not partnered up with IB (or UX for that matter). Whereas IB does have a codeshare partnership with TA.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 4):

The other issue with IB flying MAD-DFW besides the one you point out is that route carries a lot more passengers originating in the USA and DFW specifically than from Spain or MAD. The reason that's relevant is that the IB brand is not as strong or reputable in the USA as say BA, AF, LH, KL or VS (even among among a lot of AA FFs). So its doubtful whether IB could pull in more passengers than AA currently does in order to perform well on an A343.

The brand is, however, irrelevant with ATI. The majority of seats will indeed be U.S.-originating and sold on the AA* code. With ATI, AA/IB operate the route as one.

Less relevant yes, irrelevant no. Its not like passengers can't figure out whose metal they will be flying on even before booking for the first time, so those not at DFW who aren't very warm to flying IB (for whatever reason) may steer towards connecting through other routings. And aside from the weaker following IB has in the USA, there's also the issue (ATI or not) where AA FFs wont be able to use systemwides or miles for upgrades or get preferred seating on IB.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8675 times:
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Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
IB seems to be taking full advantage of Air Comet's disappearance, and will consolidate their lead in Central and South America ahead of AF/KL
- It’s a surprise not to see the start of direct PTY flights, which has been rumoured, and would seem all the more urgent now that Air Europa are starting direct flights from MAD
- Good to see IB not giving up on IAD and BOS
- They never mention the cuts, and no doubt IB is still cutting its domestic network heavily and maybe elsewhere. Nonetheless some consolidation and expansion in the IB medium and long haul network quite soon after the downturn.

Welcome to the forum, IBA346. You'll learn a lot here from a bunch of great people.

I was thinking perhaps IB & LA would increase service together so LA would be able to expand and codeshare with IB and vice versa on the new increased frequencies IB is adding.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
The brand is, however, irrelevant with ATI. The majority of seats will indeed be U.S.-originating and sold on the AA* code. With ATI, AA/IB operate the route as one.

Hopefully we'll see the IB brand improve gradually once the merger is completed and things settle in. Something definitely needs to be done with their inflight service, Euro & International.


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8515 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 9):
Hopefully we'll see the IB brand improve gradually once the merger is completed and things settle in. Something definitely needs to be done with their inflight service, Euro & International.

Indeed!
I am impressed to see EZE served 17 times a week but if it is to be treated like retarded useless catlle by FA, I will still avoid IB which is a shame because they have great pricing out of ORY to Latam

Bienvenu IBA346



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8447 times:



Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
OK, I am a new member and this is my first post. I have been reading a.net for some months, so I hope I have got the hang of it. Please be nice!

Welcome to airliners.net Big grin

Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
- Start of new summer routes to AMM and DAM. Good to see this expansion of MAD hub, but low frequencies and summer only for now it appears. Also Amman is served already by RJ with IB codeshare

I have to say...AMM makes sense. It's a ow hub and will provide access to all those key points. I was at first surprised that DAM would also be added when it's so close to AMM but I guess there's healthy VFR originating from South America-clearly Conviasa's CCS-DAM isn't cutting it, lol. That traffic's certainly lower-yielding but I guess IB thinks its worthwhile to pursue that market.


User currently offlineIBA346 From France, joined Jan 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8009 times:

Thanks for all the welcomes!


Quoting Directorguy (Reply 11):
I have to say...AMM makes sense. It's a ow hub and will provide access to all those key points. I was at first surprised that DAM would also be added when it's so close to AMM but I guess there's healthy VFR originating from South America-clearly Conviasa's CCS-DAM isn't cutting it, lol. That traffic's certainly lower-yielding but I guess IB thinks its worthwhile to pursue that market.

Indeed there are many families of Middle Eastern descent in the Americas especially around the Caribbean, although many are the descendants of people who moved many generations ago. I wonder if these routes are part of a plan to position MAD as a hub for traffic linking the Americas to Asia and the Middle East, with links to India, China etc. The success of the TLV route shows the potential of such a strategy.

[Edited 2010-01-23 08:23:41]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7922 times:
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Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 10):
I am impressed to see EZE served 17 times a week but if it is to be treated like retarded useless catlle by FA, I will still avoid IB which is a shame because they have great pricing out of ORY to Latam

Have to imagine the size of Buenos Aires-Madrid, which is comparable, and even bigger than any LIS-Brazil market. It's language, historic, economic and all sort of ties that makes EZE-MAD probably the largest market between Europe and South America, ahead for example of CDG-GRU (around 950 seats/day) and CDG-GIG (around 820 seats/day). IB does a very good job, but they should try EZE-BCN !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7899 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 4):
The other issue with IB flying MAD-DFW besides the one you point out is that route carries a lot more passengers originating in the USA and DFW specifically than from Spain or MAD. The reason that's relevant is that the IB brand is not as strong or reputable in the USA as say BA, AF, LH, KL or VS (even among among a lot of AA FFs), with the exception of South Florida where almost half of the population has Spanish roots of some kind. So on MAD-DFW its doubtful whether IB could pull in more passengers than AA currently does in order to perform well on an A343.

Without ATI, I would agree with you 100%. However with ATI, it doesnt matter who flies the plane in my opinion. In fact, I would argue that it would make the flight more popular in Dallas and elsewhere in the US. It would be more popular for Latin American connections because its on a Spanish speaking airline, it would be more popular among passengers in the US because European carriers have a much better reputation than American ones.

It that point, its all about who has the right aircraft for the route. An AA 763 is too little and an AA 777 has too much premium seating-particularly F class (as UAL747 correctly points out). An IB 343 has alot more economy and biz seating than does the 763, but it lacks an F cabin, which an AA 777. An F cabin is unnecesary to DFW-MAD.

I think it would be a very smart move on an immunized IB/AA. As Mark points out, it doesnt matter who sells the flight as it will have both AA and IB flight numbers on it.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Have to imagine the size of Buenos Aires-Madrid, which is comparable, and even bigger than any LIS-Brazil market. It's language, historic, economic and all sort of ties that makes EZE-MAD probably the largest market between Europe and South America, ahead for example of CDG-GRU (around 950 seats/day) and CDG-GIG (around 820 seats/day). IB does a very good job, but they should try EZE-BCN !

1) EZE captures basically all the Argentina-Europe market while in Brazil market is more diversified with options via GIG and TAP via other airports;

2) EZE does not have many other gateways options to Europe (nonstop options are only MAD, CDG, FRA and FCO), compare with GRU for example (LIS, CDG, FRA, LHR, MXP, FCO, ZRH, OPO, AMS, IST and MAD) or GIG (MAD, LIS, OPO, CDG, LHR).

Rgs,

[Edited 2010-01-23 08:47:29 by hardiwv]

User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Well, the DAM and AMM flights are once a week each...so they probably cater to tour groups most likely.

So all in all, it's a small baby step to regain some of their presence in the Levant region


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7760 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
1) EZE captures basically all the Argentina-Europe market while in Brazil market is more diversified with options via GIG and TAP via other airports

Yes, Buenos Aires is the best location also in Argentina for their international Hub. It acts like Sao Paulo towards the south of Brazil.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
EZE does not have many other gateways options to Europe (nonstop options are only MAD, CDG, FRA and FCO

Plus BCN and convenient one stop service to LHR (stay on the plane).
But your point is right, while it just increases IB focus on EZE.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7760 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Have to imagine the size of Buenos Aires-Madrid, which is comparable, and even bigger than any LIS-Brazil market.

Good remark. We have to bear in mind MAD and EZE are very similar in term of size, plus there is the language commonality which is not existing for example between GRU and CDG which are served by already 14 JJ rotations and 12 AF (weekly)

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
EZE captures basically all the Argentina-Europe market while in Brazil market is more diversified with options via GIG and TAP via other airports

Correct, GIG is also a second "magnet" for Brazil and JJ offers a lot of connections to BSB and beyond too

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
EZE does not have many other gateways options to Europe (nonstop options are only MAD, CDG, FRA and FCO), compare with GRU for example (LIS, CDG, FRA, LHR, MXP, FCO, ZRH, OPO, AMS, IST and MAD)

Right, but GRU is twice the size of EZE and economically it' the capital of a 190 million inhabitant country



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7737 times:



Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
Right, but GRU is twice the size of EZE and economically it' the capital of a 190 million inhabitant country

Indeed, but my point was that GRU/GIG/Brazil-Europe market is far more diversified as compared to EZE/Argentina-Europe which is heavily concentrated in Spain.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7589 times:
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Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
Good remark. We have to bear in mind MAD and EZE are very similar in term of size, plus there is the language commonality which is not existing for example between GRU and CDG which are served by already 14 JJ rotations and 12 AF (weekly)

Exactly. The power of MAD + EZE because of all their ties, if we put all togehter, gives even room for more than 17x weekly EZE-MAD. The same applies to LIM for example.
Even with the fact AR and LA runs flights, i would ask why 4M does not try EZE-MAD !

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
Correct, GIG is also a second "magnet" for Brazil and JJ offers a lot of connections to BSB and beyond too

True, but with the transfer of some flights to SDU, GIG for JJ is more an O&D airport with few possibilities. Even VIX and POA are not available.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1708 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7165 times:



Quoting IBA346 (Reply 12):
Indeed there are many families of Middle Eastern descent in the Americas especially around the Caribbean, although many are the descendants of people who moved many generations ago. I wonder if these routes are part of a plan to position MAD as a hub for traffic linking the Americas to Asia and the Middle East, with links to India, China etc. The success of the TLV route shows the potential of such a strategy.

But IB needs to redevelop its longhaul network substantially...they're huge in Latin America, but have no flights to India, the Far East, China, SE Asia etc. A very logical strategy would be for IB/RJ to operate BCN/MAD-AMM flights with RJ intercepting traffic and redistributing it across the Middle East/India etc. This could be reinforced even more when/if GF joins the ow fold. And of course, the absence of a Spain-HKG nonstop doesn't help.

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 16):
Well, the DAM and AMM flights are once a week each...so they probably cater to tour groups most likely.

So all in all, it's a small baby step to regain some of their presence in the Levant region

Oh, that's not a lot. I admit, I didn't read the press release. This is almost certainly for some sort of tour operator with some low yield VFR traffic thrown in for some brownie points.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7005 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):
It would be more popular for Latin American connections because its on a Spanish speaking airline, it would be more popular among passengers in the US because European carriers have a much better reputation than American ones.

That's the point - IB is not one of those European carriers with a better reputation than American ones.


User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1117 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7005 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 21):

But IB needs to redevelop its longhaul network substantially...they're huge in Latin America, but have no flights to India, the Far East, China, SE Asia etc.

With SQ muscling into BCN and possibly resuming MAD flights, will IB consider a response?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

Nothing too spectacular really, an increase in frequencies and return to already known summer routes. The only true novelty seems to be:

Quoting IBA346 (Thread starter):
- Start of new summer routes to AMM and DAM. Good to see this expansion of MAD hub, but low frequencies and summer only for now it appears.

Very low frequencies, but it can be a way to explore possible oneworld synergies with RJ.

I guess IB is following a conservative strategy, which can make sense as Spain will exit the crisis later than other countries, so they're keeping to "tried and true" routes. They don't seem to be jumping on the gap left by Air Comet, perhaps IB prefers to use this to increase their yields rather than increase capacity (unless UX does something about that).

Any chance of them taking up the 3 stored A346's they have at LDE? Also, IIRC, IB has 2 A346's (the last on order) scheduled to be delivered this year. 5 A346's seems to be a lot of capacity to add in one year...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
EZE goint to 17x weekly !

A380 anyone?  Wink


25 IrishAyes : I agree with you to some extent, but when it comes to a Spanish-speaking carrier vs. a US carrier, I think you'll find that the language factor is ir
26 UALWN : AR flies EZE-BCN-EZE twice a week.
27 Trex8 : so does that mean the 3 A346s currently stored will go into service? what of the 2 planes still to be delivered this year?
28 LAXdude1023 : Is there a justification for more J seats? Sure. Is there justification for an F cabin? In my opinion, no. Which is why I think an IB 343 is perfect.
29 IberiaA319 : Therefore I am still wondering if this year's upgrade for the MAD-DFW route, with a daily AA 777 this summer, will last for a long time. MAD-MIA had
30 Varig md-11 : Good to know. It's true JJ8054 is becoming more and more a tourists and VFR flight for Cariocas and Parisiens Lord! a long way to go for IB if they v
31 MAH4546 : AA needs to put a 777 on Dallas-Madrid this summer because of expected demand. Even though F will likely be full of upgrades, the Y and J capacity is
32 Robffm2 : Are these the only increases to central Europe? The press notice says that the additional flights represent an increase of 28 resp. 14 percent increa
33 KL911 : Isn't EI starting MAD-IAD as well this summer? How will that affect the yields for IB?
34 R2rho : Ferrovial won a contract for part of the Trans Texas Corridor among other things, and BBVA has acquired several banks there, so there is certainly a
35 Migair54 : you´re right.......they need to develop an Asian network.....and even more......IMO they could start some Africa flight as well.......given the supe
36 Directorguy : As others have mentioned, Spain-Asia is too competitive now, and IB isn't likely to waste time starting intercontinental longhauls that will never ma
37 MIgAiR54 : That´s the idea......America-west Africa via Madrid Hub.......the new T-4 has space to grow and IB could develop a nice market. Maybe the biggest pr
38 IBA346 : Indeed of all European countries, the UK would probably find MAD connections to West Africa the most convenient. But of the major European markets it
39 LipeGIG : IB enjoy one of the biggest markets with little competition an airline can access: Spain-Latin America (except Brazil). If they improve their quality
40 MIgAiR54 : They could easily serve some destination with the A380 sucu the one you´ve said but freqs are better for now......maybe in the future they could buy
41 LipeGIG : Agreed, as i mentioned also, service could lead IB to even better yields and loads. I can see EZE for example with redeye A380 and A346.
42 IBA346 : All these destinations have some, albeit limited competition from European carriers. LIM, EZE, MEX, BOG from AF / KL and EZE, MEX, CCS from LH. All h
43 LipeGIG : Agree with you, there's quite competition, but the fact that MAD is the big focus of these markets, this in my view is an advantage for IB. But i als
44 LTU932 : PTY is going nonstop? Where will that leave MAD-GUA? Or would this just mean some flights to PTY stay nonstop, while the rest of the flights are MAD-
45 OP3000 : PTY is going nonstop 4x per week on UX. It continues to be MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD for IB.
46 UALWN : I couldn't agree more. I have seen behaviors, mostly from F/As, that I haven't seen in any other airline. But there are no strong links between Spain
47 Hardiwv : The above also have KL/AF operations. In Brazil I expect IB to operate MAD-SSA (currently IB codeshares this route) or MAD-FOR. IB hub in MAD makes m
48 LipeGIG : BCN is a big market and for sure can sustain with O&D one flight to Argentina (BCN-EZE) and at least Lima (BCN-LIM). Both are LA hubs (of course EZE
49 777jaah : Last summer I was booked in IB in J with my wife, used a bunch of AA miles I had. At the counter, the IB agent I was getting downgraded to Y because
50 LipeGIG : Not a smart strategy for customer service. You should complain with AA and Oneworld !
51 MIgAiR54 : yes, they need to try..... I also expect Brasilia........ Also I always say that IB needs the B787, especially for some markets like the above mentio
52 LipeGIG : MAD-BSB could work, but there's a strong competition with TP and the market is a little limited without connections, something TP can access thru JJ
53 777jaah : I wasn't upgrading.....I "bought" my ticket with milles, and it was done 9 months in advance. And even I showed to the airpoert almost 4 hours before
54 IBA346 : I agree with many that this seems possible now. Perhaps a 3/4 flights a week service to a couple of the key Lat America destinations would be suffici
55 UALWN : But, so far, VY does not allow connections at all (just like FR, U2, etc.).
56 IBA346 : From VX website's booking tool it appears that you can book a connection between two VX flights. So why not extend this to other IB coded flights wit
57 UALWN : I guess you mean VY, not VX. Last time I flew with them (summer '09) , connections were not allowed. You could, of course, buy two tickets and connec
58 MIgAiR54 : Yes, you can buy tickets now in the network and when you are doing the booking you can read for example AGP----LHR (via BCN).
59 IBA346 : Yes, my mistake. We are talking about VY. I have never flown connecting flights with VY, but as mentioned, the Vueling website allows you to book, fo
60 UALWN : You are right. It seems like in all cases the connections are "via Barcelona". That's a very good development.
61 OP3000 : AFAIK the new owners of JK do not have long haul (and thus Latin America) on their radar. The greater issue for IB is letting foreign airlines (SQ, Q
62 LAXdude1023 : Youre forgetting why people are suggesting it. It has nothing to do with reliability. It has everything to do with the fact that AA doesnt have the b
63 Gatovolador : Vueling is a point to point airline. The XXX to YYY flights via Barcelona do not exist: it is impossible to book them and to have your baggage checke
64 R2rho : Or at least some A330's in the short term (how about Air Comet's?). IMO, one of IB's biggest difficulities, and a reason why they are so conservative
65 Trinxat : I don´t think it is a threat at all. IB retired from BCN a few years ago fully consciously, and they only keep MAD services, and now are "back" via
66 Post contains links IBA346 : The short and very urgent objective of the new owners is to return JK to profitability. I wish them well, but its certainly a huge challenge in the c
67 SJOtoLIR : KL PTY-AMS sustains commercial relationships with inbound and outbound flights on CM and heading to SJU and Central America through PTY. . The market
68 UALWN : You are right. I didn't look at the website carefully enough. On the other hand, the fact that they allow people to plan these "self-connections" may
69 OP3000 : If aircraft type were the only relevant factor for running a route then you would be right, but its not. AA has mediocre service, but IB has that plu
70 LAXdude1023 : Its not the only factor, but I would argue that aircraft type under an ATI arrangement would be more important. I work in Corporate Travel contract n
71 UALWN : Wait till IB starts flying DFW-MAD. It won't be long before they have "a reputation"...
72 OP3000 : I would say that's not necessarily a good thing. Its not like BA, LH, AF or KL which folks have heard of and know provide good, reliable service. And
73 UALWN : Indeed. I travel between MAD and SCL a few times per year, and I always try to get on LA, avoiding IB. There's simply no comparison.
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