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The Latest At CVG  
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3115 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10697 times:

CVG:

"Airport CEO: Name your price, Delta"
“If it takes money to restore service, give us a number,” airport CEO John Mok told a Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce audience today. “We asked them a couple months ago, but we haven't heard back.”

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/ci...ef_well_work_with_any_carrier.html

Delta:

"Delta CEO: Expect fewer flights from CVG"
"Delta Air Lines’ top executive told local airport and business leaders that they could expect another 10-20 flights to be cut off from the current schedule during a closed-door meeting Friday, airline officials confirmed late Friday night."

"Delta thanks the Cincinnati business community for their support as we work together to return the hub to profitability,” the airline said in a statement. “At this time, there are no plans to restart any previously served international routes, however, we will remain in conversations with Cincinnati officials. Our first priority is to ensure the continued success of our year-round nonstop service to Paris.”

CVG" target=_blank>http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2.../Delta+CEO++Fewer+flights+from+CVG



Me thinks that aside from offering revenue guarantees for CVG-CDG, Mr. Mok should acknowledge the existence of DTW towering above him and CVG, and he should perhaps close that check book to DL and perhaps open it to WN, FL, etc...?

Thoughts?


FLYi
119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3703 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10488 times:



Quoting PITrules (Thread starter):
Me thinks that aside from offering revenue guarantees for CVG-CDG, Mr. Mok should acknowledge the existence of DTW towering above him and CVG, and he should perhaps close that check book to DL and perhaps open it to WN, FL, etc...?

He can't do that easily. The 1975 law that created the DL hub requires that all incentives offered to DL must be offered to all other airlines on an equal basis. And DL always bites first, hence why there's no major LCCs at CVG.

Still, 10-20 more flight cuts has to hurt. That being said, I hope FWA-CVG doesn't get the axe as part of the cuts, especially since we've escaped the CVG Grim Reaper many times...



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineBNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10466 times:

I was through CVG last week. My first time since the major cutbacks. I was shocked, it's a ghost town, a shell of it's former self. Really sad. I doubt they will ever get back even a fraction of the service they lost. Any LCC (if they come in) is going to have no more than a token presence there.

User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2268 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10382 times:

too bad to see CVG continually get cut. But I guess for me personally CVG isnt an option any more since they cut CID-CVG among others. Was just through there on Memorial Day weekend it still seemed fairly busy as everything was in A and B. B is still one of the nicest terminal facilities I have seen. But I guess with DTW up the road and their far superior facilties the writing is on the wall. I am wondering when they will officially change it from a hub to calling it a "secondary hub" or focus city? How many flights does it see by DL now? I was thinking it was down in the 180 range? Another 20 would really take it down a bit, but hopefully they can maintain about 160 a day with the CDG flight. Still sad to think it was once 600 DL flights a day. Seems like an eerily similar path that PIT and STL took. They should consider just moving all of DL to B and put the remaining airlines in A.

User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10321 times:



Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 3):
How many flights does it see by DL now?

Last April I started looking at the departures for each hub and figured it would not be too much trouble to keep track of them by each quarter. For 1Q 2010 CVG will have right around 183 daily departures. That is down 33 departures from 4Q 2009, but they gained two mainline flights.

CVG had 263 daily departures in the 2Q of 2009. A lot of cities only see one flight a day right now out of CVG, at some point is that worth it?

I have really liked the airport when I have passed through there. With the exception of Concourse C, it is a very nice airport and easy place to make a connection. I would think (or maybe hope) that CVG can still serve a purpose as a reliever hub to DTW and ATL (more so when traffic picks up again).


User currently offlineFlyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1888 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10236 times:

nothing really new here, though I don't think any subsidies are going toward the CDG flight, I know the KCAB said they'd be willing to subsidize the return of FRA and LGW. I guess we should be prepared to start losing more cities as opposed to the frequency cuts in the first few rounds of cutting.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10225 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 1):
And DL always bites first, hence why there's no major LCCs at CVG.

 Confused

MKE didn't subsidize WN
DEN didn't subsidize WN
SFO didn't subsidize WN

What's really going on? I can't believe that DL is still "too big." Are the LFCs content to surround CVG with service to other airports?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 754 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10198 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
What's really going on? I can't believe that DL is still "too big." Are the LFCs content to surround CVG with service to other airports?

Agreed. With 160 or so flights now, I can't believe that other LLCs are afraid to enter the market.


User currently offlineCvg2lga From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10192 times:

I think the 10-20 flights they are talking about will be the 4pm bank of flights. Much like the 11am was just recently cut.

I work the ramp here in CVG and nearly every one of us ramp/gate are facing voluntary/involuntary separations or possibly involuntary downgrades from full time. It is a shame what Delta has done here, with aquiring DTW and building a new domestic hub in LGA no it doesn't make sense to keep CVG I agree with that. However I would have prefered an all out DFW pullout than DL killing off any other competition past present & future and slowly killing off the hub.

Right now our jobs and essentially our lives are hanging in the balance. Provided those who are able to keep ahold of their full time status or the rest who are able to hang on at all by any grace probably won't once we take the next round of cuts.

Does anyone see DL mainline ramp/gate leaving CVG? The recurring party line has been "Mainline jobs with not be affected".

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6572 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10164 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
I can't believe that DL is still "too big."

DL still has a pretty strong hold on all the major O+D markets, plus most of the passengers are still likely loyal to SkyMiles. However, as DL continues to pulldown, they will start to see that loyalty evaporate. I suspect WN will come to CVG, but there's no rush. Let DL keep pulling down and eventually get better gate space. Right now, there's little desirable gate real estate open.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10128 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
I suspect WN will come to CVG, but there's no rush. Let DL keep pulling down and eventually get better gate space. Right now, there's little desirable gate real estate open.

That all makes sense to me - though CVG is one of the largest cities WN doesn't serve, so I don't think it'll be more than 3-5 years before we see them in CVG.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10099 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
Let DL keep pulling down and eventually get better gate space. Right now, there's little desirable gate real estate open

When DL renegotiated their lease at CVG during bankruptcy, they added an option to shed gates in A&B starting in 2013 (and every 3 years thereafter). Ironically, they are stuck with paying the full load on the closed Concourse C lease until 2025.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9991 times:



Quoting Michman (Reply 11):
When DL renegotiated their lease at CVG during bankruptcy, they added an option to shed gates in A&B starting in 2013 (and every 3 years thereafter). Ironically, they are stuck with paying the full load on the closed Concourse C lease until 2025.

That's the first I've seen about any agreement to shed gates, but I guess it's a good sign. I just don't see how DL would not see a benefit to subletting gates to the other carriers. Granted, there is no particular incentive for them to do this business-wise, but let's assume for a minute that no additional service would be added, and they all would just move from T2 to Concourse A. Then DL would be getting their rent money (perhaps less a side payment back to KCAB to cover the loss of rent from them vacating T2) and there would be plenty of room for all. Not to mention that concessions would do much better (see Cincinnati.com article recently about how KCAB had to offer a special deal to all the shops to keep them in business since they literally can't pay their leases anymore).


User currently offlineMichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

I was off a bit -- it's every 2 years after 2013. Here's the text

"The New Facilities Lease Agreement to be executed by Delta and KCAB shall have a term of approximately fifteen years, beginning January 19, 2006, and expiring December 31, 2020. Delta will initially lease all airline leasable space located in Terminal 3, Hub A and Concourse B at the Airport. Effective on each of January 1, 2013, January 1, 2015 and January 1, 2017, Delta will be entitled to reduce by certain percentages the space it occupies in such facilities at the Airport, with corresponding reductions in Rental (as that term is defined in the New Facilities Lease Agreement) payable under the New Facilities Lease Agreement. The Bond Trustee's bankruptcy claim and the issuance of the New Note, or the New Note's prepayment as provided for in the Settlement Agreement, together will, among other things, be deemed to satisfy in full any facilities rental obligation Delta may otherwise have owed to the KCAB for Delta's continued use and occupancy of certain facilities and improvements at the Airport. "

From --http://ca.us.biz.yahoo.com/e/070309/dal8-k.html


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3886 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

DTW needs no relief and in fact, can stand to grow ALOT more. ATL is the one that needs relief and MEM is perfectly poised to do so. I forsee CVG shrinking to focus city status that will support the O&D market and the corporate contracts.

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3115 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9821 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 1):

He can't do that easily. The 1975 law that created the DL hub requires that all incentives offered to DL must be offered to all other airlines on an equal basis.

Isn't that the case at all airports that accept federal dollars? If there are 2 airlines operating on one route, an airport can't cut landing fees to one airline and not the other.



FLYi
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9701 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
DL still has a pretty strong hold on all the major O+D markets, plus most of the passengers are still likely loyal to SkyMiles. However, as DL continues to pulldown, they will start to see that loyalty evaporate. I suspect WN will come to CVG, but there's no rush. Let DL keep pulling down and eventually get better gate space. Right now, there's little desirable gate real estate open.

That loyalty, especially among the business travelers, is probably going to evaporate faster than one would think. Delta has truly become a terrible airline out of Cincinnati. There is no such thing as the Delta experience out of CVG for the most part. A vast majority of flights are on crammed RJs, which offer no upgrade potential for elites, offer very little of the Delta service and ammentities that they offer on larger RJs and mainline, and the flight times are becoming less and less convenient to business travelers. If you look at key business centers, like BOS, NYC, DFW, etc. It is becoming harder and harder to get back to CVG in the evening. I am finding myself more and more being forced to book on other airlines, like CO, to get back in the evening so that I don't trash my next day. And as for the frequent flyer program, it too is being marginalized by the service that DL is providing. The only benefit to being an elite is that I can get on the plane first, and don't have to pay a baggage check fee when I use it.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9619 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 16):
That loyalty, especially among the business travelers, is probably going to evaporate faster than one would think. Delta has truly become a terrible airline out of Cincinnati. There is no such thing as the Delta experience out of CVG for the most part. A vast majority of flights are on crammed RJs, which offer no upgrade potential for elites, offer very little of the Delta service and ammentities that they offer on larger RJs and mainline, and the flight times are becoming less and less convenient to business travelers. If you look at key business centers, like BOS, NYC, DFW, etc. It is becoming harder and harder to get back to CVG in the evening. I am finding myself more and more being forced to book on other airlines, like CO, to get back in the evening so that I don't trash my next day. And as for the frequent flyer program, it too is being marginalized by the service that DL is providing. The only benefit to being an elite is that I can get on the plane first, and don't have to pay a baggage check fee when I use it.

Well put! While I'm not a biz traveller, as a fellow CVG customer, I definitely agree. I just can't understand how DL thinks that they still have the loyalty of the business community, or at least will have it for much longer. As you state, the service at CVG is quickly reaching the bare minimum of what I would consider good business connections. After all, these business travellers aren't just families going to Disney who are willing to take a weird flight time/connection if it saves money. They may have a need to have certain times.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9435 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Reply 17):
They may have a need to have certain times.

But DL still has most of that. They still offer 5 daily flights to ORD, 5 to LGA, 4 to BOS, 4 to DCA (including a CRJ1000 according to delta.com - what's that all about?), 3 to DFW, etc.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSNCNtry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9102 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
including a CRJ1000 according to delta.com - what's that all about?

Boy I can not wait until NWA.com is dead...



Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9073 times:

If I were CVG i would just hope delta moves out quickly allowing a LCC such as airtran, southwest, or jetblue to move in with some decent service. No need to delay the inevitable. The list of keeper hubs really has the entire country well covered for DL. CVG is just no longer needed or feasible. I think throwing them money is just the wrong way to go when they will probably keep a few point to point high o&d markets such as LAX for a while anyway.......

User currently offlineJMackey From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

Anyone have a current count of which gates are vacant in both terminals ?


I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9013 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
But DL still has most of that. They still offer 5 daily flights to ORD, 5 to LGA, 4 to BOS, 4 to DCA (including a CRJ1000 according to delta.com - what's that all about?), 3 to DFW, etc.

But would businesses stay on under that I guess was my question. Certainly 5x a day is nice, but are big companies going to want to stay with DL if all they offer is 5x on RJs, or maybe one or two mainline flights a day, to key cities?


User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8921 times:



Quoting Cvg2lga (Reply 8):
I would have prefered an all out DFW pullout than DL killing off any other competition past present & future and slowly killing off the hub.

Like CO at CLE, DL wants to control the market for the time being which questions the "unprofitable" notion...


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8592 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe they can right size CVG by moving most of the DC9-50's to CVG, as they bring in the MD 90's to MSP and move the A320's out to SLC. The economics of a DC9 while not great are certainly far superior to those of a CRJ. A 900 mile radius from CVG represents over 1/2 of the US population and the large corporations in CVG I think would really appreciate not seeing a CRJ for almost every flight as they do now.


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
25 JMackey : I completely agree. I am sure any further cutback in capacity will be just as painful to CVG as it will be to MEM in the future, or PIT from the past
26 Cubsrule : What's the alternative?
27 ThegreatRDU : Honestly....DL does not want CVG...but it's a messy situation...with all the contracts and gate lease agreements etc. still in effect...it is...delay
28 LHCVG : I was assuming that it might eventually go the way of say CMH where there is mainline service to DFW, ORD, and ATL, so that could end up being the fu
29 Commavia : Yep - exactly. Just like with US/PIT, AA/STL, etc. - once you start rolling down that slippery slope, the end-state is fairly inevitable in my opinio
30 LHCVG : Well put. For comparison, I believe UA runs an SFO flight out of PIT and maybe STL as well now. I can't remember if AA still runs STL-LAX or not. But
31 Commavia : My sense - others feel free to correct me - is that other airlines probably still don't feel as confident going in there because Delta does, today, s
32 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would call myself a DL follower; purely out of aviation interest and the fact that i'm born and bread Georgia, but good for any airline that can ste
33 Flyguy89 : I would say probably their usual beginner routes: CVG-MCO, TPA, MDW, BWI, LAS, PHX with more added on as they see fit, possibly eventually BNA, STL,
34 Mayor : Oh, yeah....that would help get some of those int'l. routes back, wouldn't it?
35 JMackey : I would love to see a LCC step in to CVG to really give the community more options, but honestly, where would the gate space come from ? Please do cor
36 Ocracoke : I don't know if you guys have ever flown through CVG before, but CVG is not like other airports out there. All other airlines except for DL are cramm
37 Cubsrule : Both of the SFO flights you mentioned came around the time that the hub carrier dropped the route. I don't think UA can compete (or is interested in
38 Seatback : Why can't terminal one reopen? I think it is in better shape than terminal 2. However, as much as I dislike terminal two (you can't see out the groun
39 LHCVG : Right. I should have specified that it would be after DL dropped it. I really don't see the value in competing either. Although, I would say that SFO
40 PITrules : I'm not sure where I stated giving incentives to WN, FL, etc would be to get international flights from CVG?
41 ScottB : But we haven't seen much of a rush into the recently de-hubbed cities like PIT or STL. WN added some flights to STL, but they were already strong at
42 Toltommy : I wouldn't say that they are afraid to enter, it's just that there is low hanging fruit to be picked first. Look at the subsidy WN just negotiated to
43 QANTAS747-438 : This all points to the inevitable arrival of WN in CVG. I make it their next new city.
44 Tommy767 : So is there any speculation as to what cities are going to get cut next week...?
45 ScottB : Not quite. Southwest's subsidy at ECP isn't coming from the airport or the government; it's coming from a land development company. Southwest could h
46 Cubsrule : They also waited until after AA announced that they were dropping most of the routes. LAX and BOS - a route that WN has flown on and off and a route
47 LHCVG : Interestingly, DL briefly had CMH-LAX, but they dropped it pretty soon. I think this was in the 2005/6ish time frame. So that could be representative
48 Cubsrule : I don't know - part of the reason that CMH-LAX wasn't real attractive was that CVG provided lots of easy online connecting itineraries (it's the same
49 LHCVG : Interesting. I remember the days when they ran 757s on some of the CVG-CMH-CVG frequencies.
50 FWAERJ : Looking at DL's CVG schedule, here's my bets on what cities could go away from CVG (no facts-just guesses): ALB (currently 2x daily) FWA (2x daily) G
51 Tommy767 : Even as of last year DL flew LAX-CVG-CMH with same plane service on the 738. Geez how long of a flight is CVG-CMH? Like 20 minutes? CMH used to be (n
52 Toltommy : Good point. now I guess it's up to a company like P&G to come up with a similar plan. Otherwise, other markets will continue to look more attractive
53 As739x : United will add non-stop from CLE before CVG to SFO. Why bother with CVG when you ahve a nice Star hub in CLE? Any UA addition from CVG will be ORD/D
54 USPIT10L : FWA is already scheduled to be cut, not sure when, probably early April.
55 Cubsrule : Because CO carries the CLE traffic, just as US carried the PIT traffic until they cut the route.
56 Skibum9 : Why would UA add a non-stop to SFO when CO already has that route? Also, that would assume that CO also has a CLE-CVG route, which it does not. Furth
57 Cubsrule : That was exactly my point - If DL drops CVG-SFO, UA will start it. UA has no reason to start CLE-SFO.
58 LAXdude1023 : No it isnt. CLE has 370 passengers to SFO per day, CVG has 275. CLE has 53 passengers to SJC per day, CVG has 38.
59 Skibum9 : Your figures include connection and O&D. With DL significantly cutting back at CVG, of course those numbers would be smaller at CVG. I am sure if you
60 Tommy767 : I think its a possibility that UA will eventually start CLE-LAX or SFO with a 319. CO serves the bare minimum in terms of frequency of transcon fligh
61 Cubsrule : I'd agree with respect to LAX, but not SFO. If AA can't make STL-SFO - a 50 percent bigger and also closer market - work (with no competition), I don
62 FlyPNS1 : No, those are O+D numbers only. Of course, CVG's high fares certainly hurt some of the potential CVG-SFO traffic. However, I would argue that if DL a
63 LHCVG : Let's not forget, in response to others' points, that CVG-SFO operated by UA would be fundamentally new service in that it is *A connection to the We
64 LAXdude1023 : No. Those are O&D only.
65 Jfklganyc : Nobody in CVG or that loves CVG wants to hear this, but let's face the facts and make some realistic assumptions: DL looks to be shrinking CVG until i
66 DCA-ROCguy : I don't know if you guys have ever flown through CVG before, but CVG is not like other airports out there. All other airlines except for DL are cramme
67 Tommy767 : Well theres another interesting situation. Would CO drop CLE-SFO for UA to operate with their own metal? Obviously CO will focus on CLE-LAX because o
68 FWAERJ : Ouch. What other cities will be cut from CVG? Please don't tell me that SBN will be spared while we get the axe... but will we get ATL boosted to a C
69 AS739X : Actually CO was one of 3 carriers at SFO that increased passenger boarding. They have increased seats with the addition of the 739ER without adding m
70 Tommy767 : Could see this as well but probably on CR7 or E170 with regional carriers..
71 MasseyBrown : You got me interested. According to the latest numbers posted on both airports' websites, total traffic for the month of December, 2009, was 793K pas
72 SurfandSnow : I think the DL/NW merger was the worst possible thing that could have happened for CVG. In the old DL network, CVG served as a crucial juncture betwee
73 Post contains links Flyinryan99 : Here's an interesting tid bit of information - O/D numbers are up 27% and the fares are down 34%. http://www.aviationplanning.com/Images/Q2009Report.p
74 BNAFlyer : I agree, but easier said than done. I recall back around 03-04 I was non-revving with a friend thru CVG. It was on a Sunday and I was reading the loc
75 Post contains links Markalot : This just posted at the Cincy Enquirer: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...S/Delta++CVG+flights+up+in+the+air ... ...
76 DeltAirlines : I'd bet heavily it won't. Lack of gates are the reason: Terminal 1 is shuttered. Terminal 2 (as noted above) is packed with CO, US, UA and AA - there
77 Rampguy : Still showing in Delta Term in September.
78 FWAERJ : Also showing at delta.com, bookable for quite a few months ahead, operated by RP. If FWA, or any other cities for that matter, are to be cut, they pr
79 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : CVG will first become a small hub (like PIT and STL), then a focus city (like PIT and STL) and then a spoke (like PIT and STL) That's right . . . a sp
80 Cubsrule : Well-put, and it's important here to differentiate between a PIT-type hub (which CVG is) and a STL-type hub, which also had a large LFC operation eve
81 MasseyBrown : Anderson's statement at the Delta earnings conference was a supportive but careful endorsement. The 160-170 flight schedule is probably good through s
82 Yellowtail : So Change the law.
83 Mayor : Here's my theory about CVG's future........I think it may go down to a large focus city or a small hub. Remember, when it was first opened as a hub, i
84 Slcdeltarumd11 : WOW looking at that pdf on o&d i really had no clue that MEM was so low in O&D CVG has had quite an improvement in O&D...interesting.....but to be hon
85 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : If i were CVG i wouldn't give DL a penny of money except maybe to keep CDG route going, I think they are gonna pull the plug directly after the incent
86 DeltAirlines : However, by the time they do all the rebuild necessary that you mention, it'd be pretty close to that date of 1/1/13, which is the date I would think
87 JMackey : Thank you for the very detailed description of Terminal 2, that I have been waiting for.
88 BNAFlyer : Errr....you are aware of how politics works in the U.S. right?
89 USPIT10L : I got that cut from Enilria's excellent weekly schedule updates. Unless DL reloaded it back into the system, CVGFWA is gone.
90 Rampguy : I'm sorry, but it is not gone. I'm looking at Sept 15, infact, I'm looking at it right now in DeltaTerm. FWA-CVG is still very much bookable.
91 DCA-ROCguy : However, by the time they do all the rebuild necessary that you mention, it'd be pretty close to that date of 1/1/13, which is the date I would think
92 TOLtommy : Just 'cuz it's there in DeltaTerm means nothing. The actual schedules are only firm thru 4/5/10. The next proposed sked is 4/6-30/10. Anything after
93 DeltaL1011man : CRJ-100/200. Its due to the res cut over. 763s are showing up as 764s, 77Es are showing as 77Ws and all 757s are showing as 753s, but the seat maps(a
94 Post contains links DeltaRules : Oh, Canada... Air Canada Adds 7 More American Cities (by LIPZ Jan 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)
95 BNAFlyer : Airlines at many scaled back airports have held on to leases for years just to keep out the competition. I guess they figure the rent is cheaper than
96 Yellowtail : Same way it works everywhere else....those with the msot money get the laws written in their favor.
97 MAH4546 : Really? Tell that to Oregon and the banks.
98 ThegreatRDU : Right... 2 gates can't support a WN operation.... ........ MEM will go once CVG is cleaned up
99 BNAFlyer : And an airport that has invested major sums of money isn't going to let DL off that easy. No one is going to come in and offer anywhere near the amou
100 Skibum9 : No way will YYZ - CVG survive. Air Canada tried this in the past and couldn't make it work. Why would it work now?
101 TOLtommy : Everyone predicted the end of US when WN entered Philly. Reality is that WN is the one pulling back somewhat at Philly....
102 BNAFlyer : That was also during a time, pre-HP merger, when US was in actual danger of liquidating (my brother was a captain for them, he would readily attest t
103 Toltommy : You and I agree, BNA. I find it humorous that the CVG fans that a few LCCs are going to come in and flood the market with cheap seats, and restore CVG
104 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I'm thinking because Air Canada is looking at CVG differently now hoping that DL pulls out of CVG-YYZ because of their addition or just because they
105 JMackey : I would love to have a peek at the list of cities that want SWA to fly into their airport. Do you think those airports have an idea of what SWA needs
106 FutureUScapt : Couldn't CVG reopen Terminal 1 if a major LCC (WN, FL, or B6) truly wanted in? US was operating out of Terminal 1 as recently as 2007 so I find it har
107 Flyguy89 : The problem is that it would take a lot of money bring it back up to operational standards. Something would also need to be done with the gate situat
108 BNAFlyer : It's been a few years since I was in T1, but unless they refurbished it, it's a rather unpleasant place as I recall.
109 Cubsrule : It's no worse than old MDW... that wouldn't stop WN if they really wanted to start service and it was available.
110 LHCVG : That's probably true. Also, could they with the KCAB, work out a deal such as pay for the refurbishment financing in lieu of paying gate/terminal lea
111 AvConsultant : KCAB has taken a hit on funding new projects. I cannot remember for certain, but I thought the airport bonds were downgraded to "junk". Then again wh
112 Tommy767 : I think CVG frequenters are just bitter that DL has downsized the hub to the point where its completely nostalgic of the good old 'power house' hub da
113 BNAFlyer : I never said WN wouldn't come to CVG. MDW was ripe for a new, LCC entrant. Since the original Midway Airlines went away, it never had a dominant carr
114 USAirALB : ALB isn't going anywhere soon. They will put it down to 1x before they cut it completely. ALB was one of the last routes to be cut from PIT and I hop
115 ThegreatRDU : Is that really your reason why ALB stay? Yea there's no way an LCC will come in and build a substantial operation at CVG, there is nothing to build u
116 USAirALB : No. I know the ALB-CVG route is on life support, and it doesn't have much time left. But, I predict it will go down to 1x before the axe it completel
117 Cubsrule : In your rush to argue, you flew right by my point, which was no more than that if WN wanted to start CVG, facility quality would not stop them - just
118 Flyguy89 : ...depends on who picks up those lucrative CVG corporate contracts.
119 BNAFlyer : I got your point, in no rush to argue. When WN started service to the cities you mentioned, they had a very different business model. They are now qu
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