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FI: Embraer Stretched E195X  
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 24686 times:



Quote:
A proposed stretch of Embraer's largest-capacity commercial jet has been dubbed the E-195X by the manufacturer, which expects to decide whether to launch the variant - or potentially another type - by mid-2011.

Read more here: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...etch-dubbed-e-195x-by-embraer.html

Interesting to see what will come of this. I belive that the engine has to be a NG34 or any new engine. If not it will be inferior agains the CS100/300 and MRJ. What do you think? It will be very long  Smile But it is a safer development, than opting for a brand new 5 abreast design.


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 24601 times:

This seems a kind of strange to me. Why would Embraer launch an airplane only 'slightly' larger than than the E-195, using the same fuselage, same wing (unless I missed it in the article), and same engines?? It would get handled by the CSeries/MRJ. If Embraer builds a true 130+ seater, they're going to have to all new clean sheet 5 abreast plane to compete, at least with the CSeries. I would think a mere re-engine of the E-Jets would keep it competitive with the MRJ.


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 24391 times:

Yet another reason for Boeing/Airbus to stay out of the sub-150 seat category. It's going to be a bloodbath.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 24375 times:

Hopefully this aircraft can do US transcons without weight restriction.. and can be used for long, thin routes where a slightly higher charge can be added on..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 24286 times:

Possibly this would meet UA's recent RFP for narrowbodies that the new UAL ALPA captain has been pushing as well.....

User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 24288 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
Hopefully this aircraft can do US transcons without weight restriction.. and can be used for long, thin routes where a slightly higher charge can be added on..

Well there is not much detail in the article about the aircraft's specs, other than a slight stretch, and if that is the case, I wouldn't expect more than 1800nm range at best. In order to lengthen the E195 and have transcon range, it need a larger wing and engines.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineBkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 23823 times:

I think this may turn into a bigger project that Embraer may forsee. In order to get to 130 passengers there gonna need to stretch the wings, get a new engine entirely, the current one I dont think can take the future stretch across the US Nonstop, bigger wings, restructured landing gear, bigger cargo bays. This may turn into a whole new airplane for Embraer by the time there done with it.

User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1279 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23727 times:



Quoting Bkircher (Reply 6):
I think this may turn into a bigger project that Embraer may forsee. In order to get to 130 passengers there gonna need to stretch the wings, get a new engine entirely, the current one I dont think can take the future stretch across the US Nonstop, bigger wings, restructured landing gear, bigger cargo bays. This may turn into a whole new airplane for Embraer by the time there done with it.

Agreed. The 130 seater sounds a lot more like a new baseline aircraft that could grow to 150 rather than an ultimate stretch of the existing E195.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23713 times:

Any pics of the proposed idea?

User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23572 times:



Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):
Agreed. The 130 seater sounds a lot more like a new baseline aircraft that could grow to 150 rather than an ultimate stretch of the existing E195.

I don't know. That's brings them to close to Airbus and Boeing. I say 130 is the max, they might want to add range though.


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 23121 times:

Boeing and Airbus...cannot be happy about this.

If I was management at either party, I would begin to think about buying out / merging with Embraer. Make it Boeing Brazil or Airbus Americas for example.

A & B have let EMB get a foothold...that is now starting to threaten their bread and butter....single aisle workhorses.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineHeathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22860 times:

Good for Embraer! I absoloutely love the E170's and E190's, and go out of my way to select this aircraft in my itinneraries. 2-2 is the way to go!!

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22752 times:



Quoting Heathrow (Reply 12):
Good for Embraer! I absoloutely love the E170's and E190's, and go out of my way to select this aircraft in my itinneraries. 2-2 is the way to go!!

Agreed. Embraer, with the addition of the 195X.. would have made a family of aircraft that could make a complete airline..

E20 for small destinations
E70 - short and mid range
E90 - mid range and heavy..
E95X - transcons and heavy..

I like the way that looks..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22742 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
Boeing and Airbus...cannot be happy about this.

No, probably not, but then again I'm sure they're not too worried about it at the moment.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):

A & B have let EMB get a foothold...that is now starting to threaten their bread and butter....single aisle workhorses.

Not really, because if you look at where A & B's bread and butter sales are for their narrow bodies it's their A320/738 sized planes. The A319/73G are the next best sellers and are still along way ahead of anything Embraer has planned. Not to mention the upgrades in the coming years to both the A32X/737NG families that further spread them from the competition.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22629 times:

Probably they'll go for the GTF / CF34 successor too.

User currently online2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22280 times:

I like the idea, I can see the new proposal and it being named the E200. A transcontinental E195X is great as a 120-130 seater that is lighter than an A318 or 737-600 and more efficient.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineWeb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22209 times:
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How long is it going to take for Embraer or any of these other companies to start moving into A & B's bread and butter region? the 130 seat and below market is already a bloodbath. If Embrear wants to keep a good hold on the market why not go to where there is little competition, 150 seats and above. i think that with in 10 years, A & B will be lucky if there are just competitors in the narrow-body sales, eventually somebody is going to go past RJ's, and once one of these companies goes, it wont take long for the rest of them to follow.


Boiler Up!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21989 times:
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Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
Interesting to see what will come of this. I belive that the engine has to be a NG34 or any new engine.

Interesting. Embraer definately needs a new core to be competitive with the C-series (or MRJ). I'm very curious to see where they go with this.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
If Embraer builds a true 130+ seater, they're going to have to all new clean sheet 5 abreast plane to compete, at least with the CSeries.

Actually, I think they could stretch the E195 and increase the wing span. But to make that work, they would need a new much more efficient engine that is lighter than the current engines. With BLISKS (also called integrated blade rotor compressors blades), that is possible. I think they are more likely to go 5-abrest, but it is not certain.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):
Yet another reason for Boeing/Airbus to stay out of the sub-150 seat category. It's going to be a bloodbath.

If both Bombardier and Embraer duke it out there... yes.  box  It locks Airbus and Boeing into 6-abrest. Not a bad thing (as that is the majority of the narrowbody market).

It does put pressure on A and B to do upgrades/replacements to their current lineup. Ok, if Bombardier or Embraer ever make significant sales, that is.  Sad

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 19560 times:

Most US carriers require a jet w/ 2850nm air mile range (BOS-SFO or MIA-SEA w/ 85% prob. winds) to cover the typical t-con missions, will be interesting to see what EMB can spin up. And how A and B respond.

User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8548 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 19245 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
Why would Embraer launch an airplane only 'slightly' larger than than the E-195, using the same fuselage, same wing (unless I missed it in the article), and same engines??

Why not? It hardly costs anything. And it might get way more sales than the E195. It would be a perfect DC-9 replacement, for one example. The 110-seat market never was that great. Building a true 125 seater will get substantial orders.

Quoting Mercure1 (Reply 19):
Most US carriers require a jet w/ 2850nm air mile range (BOS-SFO or MIA-SEA w/ 85% prob. winds) to cover the typical t-con missions, will be interesting to see what EMB can spin up

Sure, but the E190 is not in that business. Embraer is not trying to do that. Unless they go ahead and build a new model, in which case Boeing and Airbus will be mad.

If EMB is designing a new jet, no reason why it can't go 3,000nm (or 6,000nm, if they do it that way).


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 18870 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 13):
E20 for small destinations
E70 - short and mid range
E90 - mid range and heavy..
E95X - transcons and heavy..

You forgot the E75 and the E95...  Wink

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 17):
How long is it going to take for Embraer or any of these other companies to start moving into A & B's bread and butter region?

E won't and the E195X doesn't really. And they are not in any rush to launch the E195X anyway.

The E195X is really more of a defensive move on E's part in case airlines are 'truly' interested in a 130-seat aircraft... if they want em, then E can supply 'em. And earlier than the CS300 to boot.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18):
Interesting. Embraer definately needs a new core to be competitive with the C-series (or MRJ). I'm very curious to see where they go with this.

But they already are "competitive"... and the 34NG will just make them more so.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 20):
Why not? It hardly costs anything. And it might get way more sales than the E195. It would be a perfect DC-9 replacement, for one example. The 110-seat market never was that great. Building a true 125 seater will get substantial orders.

Yes, the 195X would be a stretch nicely rounding out the top end of the E-jets. And as you say, it would indeed hardly cost anything... relative to an all-new design. Interestingly, with a 195X the E-jets would be the only series with 5 sizes.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 18521 times:



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 21):
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 13):
E20 for small destinations
E70 - short and mid range
E90 - mid range and heavy..
E95X - transcons and heavy..

You forgot the E75 and the E95...

I think he was envisioning a balanced fleet and not a "one of each in the series" approach. You may have just been poking fun at him though, I'm not sure.

In regards to the range, Keesje recently talked about the range needed for many intra- European and domestic US markets, and it was not even 2000nm IIRC. Do you think a shorter range jet (<2000nm) would be able to attract enough sales given that a slightly larger but heavier 319/73G could serve many more missions?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 18477 times:

I dont see why everyone keeps mentioning the CSeries... It doesnt make anysense. Lets not forget that the Cseries is not even real yet, its still just an idea that Bombardier "would" like to do. Until its being built and customers have placed orders for it, theres no rush to jump into a market that hasnt even been launched yet. Ok so techinally it has been launched, but I am not sure if it is being built. It just seems like Bombardier does not know what they are doing with it 100% yet.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 18333 times:
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Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 17):
How long is it going to take for Embraer or any of these other companies to start moving into A & B's bread and butter region? the 130 seat and below market is already a bloodbath. If Embrear wants to keep a good hold on the market why not go to where there is little competition, 150 seats and above. i think that with in 10 years, A & B will be lucky if there are just competitors in the narrow-body sales, eventually somebody is going to go past RJ's, and once one of these companies goes, it wont take long for the rest of them to follow.

In my view, not so long but not so soon. Embraer knows that run the big risk that the 50-90 seat market become mature like the 30-50 is nowadays, plus the fact that there's more competitors coming. The natural move is to guarantee a strong position on the 90-130 seats, something they are thinking about, but still with run to develop.

To go for 130-180 seats for example.. i believe it will demand 5 years and right now you need to wait what Airbus and Boeing will bring to replace their 73G and A32X families.

Embraer is doing the right thing in my view as they can't try to compete right now knowing A and B can come with better products soon, and they can't stay on their current market, waiting for competition to come.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 17766 times:



Quoting Bkircher (Reply 23):
I dont see why everyone keeps mentioning the CSeries... It doesnt make anysense. Lets not forget that the Cseries is not even real yet, its still just an idea that Bombardier "would" like to do.

It is real.... and since this is an enthusiast site people will naturally talk about any new airframe.

Quoting Bkircher (Reply 23):
Until its being built and customers have placed orders for it, theres no rush to jump into a market that hasnt even been launched yet. Ok so techinally it has been launched, but I am not sure if it is being built.

It does have a 'conditional' order for the CS110 from LH for Swiss to replace Avro RJs. And there is another 'order' from a small leasing co in ireland for a mix of CS110 and CS300s. It hasn't reached detail design yet.

Of course, the program could always be cancelled.

Quoting Bkircher (Reply 23):
It just seems like Bombardier does not know what they are doing with it 100% yet.

Actually they do... it just is that there isn't significant interest in the program.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
To go for 130-180 seats for example.. i believe it will demand 5 years and right now you need to wait what Airbus and Boeing will bring to replace their 73G and A32X families.

That is the thing, when A & B come out with all-new NBs, they are going to be head and shoulders above what BBD or E will/would have.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
25 Lightsaber : They are competitive in today's market. But once the GTF's are out, I do not think they would be competitive enough. I'm curious what a CF-34NG would
26 Keesje : I think the 34NG project contains scaled down LeapX / Genx technology. Embraer was talking to PW about GTF years ago.. I think the 4 abreast ~ 100 se
27 JoeCanuck : Could the CRJ 700-1000 use the 34NG?
28 Airbazar : That's called complacency and I doubt very much A & B agree with you. It was only 15 years ago that Embraer produced their first jet aircraft. Only 1
29 Rheinbote : Can you put a little color on that statement in terms of which technologies BBS does not have/implement right now would yield how much of an advantag
30 EA772LR : Yeah well if you quoted the rest of my post, then you'd not be saying complacency...
31 Airbazar : How can they be further from the competition if the competition doesn't yet exist? That's the point. And enhancement or upgrade could be seen as comp
32 EA772LR : How?? An enhancement or upgrade to the engines alone would give the 737NG/A32X families plenty of breathing room until Boeing and Airbus come out wit
33 Lightsaber : and I'm highly impressed by the E-jets. A reality and a requirement. Aerospace is never a constant competition. There must always be product improvem
34 Planemaker : Being competitive is not just having a few % CASM advantage... one has to look at the entire picture including purchase price, RASM, commonality, fle
35 Rheinbote : Yeah, I guess so. But which of those will put A & B "head and shoulders above what BBD and E will/would have"?
36 MogandoCI : agreed....in the endless chase for the 250-350 seat market, Boeing and Airbus will definitely cede the low-end the EMB/BBD. if they don't come up with
37 Planemaker : A whole new thread could be started just on that one topic. You forget that even if it is a "bloodbath" at the sub-150 market, it is nonetheless stil
38 Rheinbote : I'd rather think in along the lines of less than 130 seats high-density for an E-195X and something like 150 seats high density for the Cseries. So e
39 Bravo1six : You keep saying this over and over in various threads on this topic, and most recently I believe I challenged you on this (and other "weasel clauses"
40 Planemaker : All aircraft orders are conditional... that is why sales contracts are pages and pages long. LH has even publicly stated one... Swiss won't be the fi
41 Bravo1six : We both know that you're smarter than that and that you know full well what a "conditional order" means in this business and you specifically chose t
42 Post contains images Planemaker : Obviously you don't know "this business"! So don't shoot the messenger just because the CSeries has had such an underwhelming sales response from air
43 R2rho : Why the obsession for transcontinental range? Sure, it's a nice thing to have, but the price to pay for it is not worth it (new wing, new engines, so
44 Airbazar : I think you're severely underestimating their capability and ambitions. Reminds me of how people reacted to the announcement from a new company in Eu
45 Post contains images Astuteman : I'd be astonished if Airbus and Boeing saw this as anything other than inevitable. They should do. And I think that this is one of the reasons the bi
46 EA772LR : Well I was merely responding to ERJ170's post: Personally, I don't see the need for any 100-130 seat airplane to fly 2400nm with pax/bags/cargo. The
47 Airbazar : You're sort of making my point. I doubt very much that either Airbus or Boeing are looking at this with the same cavalier attitude as some of the com
48 Lightsaber : If either this new Embraer or Bombardier plane can estabilish themselves in the market... they will thrive. No argument there. But the number of sale
49 Bravo1Six : I know quite a bit about the business side of the aviation business. I also know enough to know that no one who has any actual experience with aircra
50 Stitch : Maybe it's a fall-back position in case the PW1000G doesn't pan out and kneecaps the C-Series and MRJ?
51 TISTPAA727 : Exactly. I don't believe it is A or B that is overly worried right now. This was an eventual evolution of the Emb and Bbd and they know it. On the ot
52 Airbazar : I don't think A or B are in a position right now to start a brand new, clean sheet, narrow body program. Boeing is buried up to their ears with the 7
53 Stitch : Even if they were, they have to ask themselves how much more efficient will it be. If LEAP-X / GTF will make an existing 737-800 or A320-200 burn 15%
54 Lightsaber : You have a point there. Pratt must deliver for those two aircraft to be competitive. Sadly, their history hasn't been so hot. (PW6000, PW4173, PW4098
55 EA772LR : Not to mention as myself and Astuteman pointed out earlier, it's not just the platform that matters. B & A have vastly superior networks, servicing,
56 TISTPAA727 : Agreed. My point is that once someone comes out with a 150 seat competitor to A/B, the 800lb gorilla's will (sometime in the mid 2020's) have a far s
57 Lightsaber : Actually it does make sense. A&B know the market and know a 6-across (or small widebody) is their first path forward. In my opinion, A&B will have no
58 VC10er : Embraer needs a bit of branding help for the E195X. if indeed it is a better ac and not just longer, I can see a "Dreamliner" approach. We all know th
59 Planemaker : This "excitement" has been going on for quite some time for some people on here... much to their repeated chagrin as both A & B kept pushing their NB
60 JoeCanuck : So what are the current prices for the CSeries, 737-700 and 319?
61 Bravo1Six : How about the next time you quote me you include the entirety of what I said. I said: If I am wrong, are you saying that OEM press releases all say "
62 EA772LR : Who can't and who won't?? Airbus and Boeing mount new engines? Or Emb/Bbd go beyond 130 seats?
63 Stitch : I believe they would abandon it only if the "step-up" model is such that there is no compelling reason to buy the smaller model. There are a few airl
64 Planemaker : The 'List Price' really doesn't factor in a sales campaign as the A320 deal with Air New Zealand demonstrates. How BBD operates. Emb/BBD. I agreed co
65 Post contains images Lightsaber : The C-series should do better than single digit cost reduction. But as I noted, it might not be FL (who has quoted replacement of 717's much earlier
66 Stitch : Hence my noting "a few" airlines. WN, for example, is said to not want to go beyond 150 seats to keep cabin crew costs down and to improve turnaround
67 Flighty : Okay, then why does everyone act like the C-series is doomed? I agree with you, if it's the overall least cost airliner from 110 to 150 seats (compar
68 DfwRevolution : The superior sales of the 738 over the 73G/733 over the 732 does not mean that the structural efficiency of the airframe is becoming more optimal wit
69 Post contains images Lightsaber : I'm not sure why people are acting like it is doomed. Oh, it hasn't done well for sales, but the fat lady hasn't sung either. Some people seem to wan
70 Bravo1Six : I see. So because of how Bombardier "operates", they've announced what is, according to you, a conditional order as a firm order, the result of which
71 DfwRevolution : And yet the 737-700 and A319 have together sold over 3,000 units! Clearly the additional capacity and lower CASM of the 737-800 and A320 are insuffic
72 Bravo1Six : Ha! That's even better than Paper Airplane. PowerPointPlane works good too! ; )
73 JoeCanuck : The 320 came out of nowhere competing directly with the 737 and now owns half the market. Somehow though, some think that the idea of another manufac
74 Jambrain : I don't think that you can assume that the future will always follow history. You must recognise that what you are showing could also demonstrate tha
75 Planemaker : As I already posted, Tellier got run out of BBD because he tried to clean up their practices. In the first place, the advantages of the CSeries over
76 ArabAirX : How much time does Bombardier need exactly? 10-plus years like the A380 for just 202~ orders perhaps? Its had almost six years of the CSeries markete
77 Post contains links Rheinbote : You consistently fail to back up your dismissive claims with facts. I have to assume that either you really don't know, or you know the figures but t
78 Comorin : Isn't the stretched Sukhoi Superjet a competitor too? Interesting that the domiciles of Embraer, BBD and Sukhoi (Brazil, Canada and Russia) are large
79 ArabAirX : Thats rather harsh and unfair - particularly because the orders (or lack thereof) for the CSeries indeed are factual proof that operators desire the
80 Bravo1Six : Again, Planemaker, extend a courtesy to the community and quote everything I said, which was: Your selective quoting simply demonstrates that you see
81 Rheinbote : Harsh, but not unfair. Throwing stones while sitting in a glasshouse, eh? So, which one don't you believe, and why?
82 Stitch : The A320 family were heavier than the 737 Classics, using that extra OEW and TOW to carry more fuel and offer ranges beyond what the 737 Classics wer
83 Post contains images Lightsaber : This reminds me of back when 50 seat RJ's were new and dismissed as "Barbie jets." I think Embraer and Bombardier got over it... but selling a few th
84 DfwRevolution : Airbus was successful because they offered a product that targeted the core of the narrowbody market (160-seats) and developed an aircraft with signi
85 ArabAirX : Not at all, it was an example referencing time - to which you provided no timeframe for the CSeries "impending" success. ...except that the majority
86 JoeCanuck : BBD has a very long legacy of manufacturing aircraft as well as many other vehicles. I have no problems comparing them with any other manufacturer. T
87 Post contains images ArabAirX : 32 Airbus A319's - 328 on back order as at Dec 31, 2009, 1221 deliveries at as same date. 41 Boeing 737-700's (all variants) - 504 on back order as a
88 JoeCanuck : So in the worst year for aircraft orders ever...BBD sold more planes than Boeing and Airbus in their competitive categories. One year might not be a
89 Stitch : I doubt BBD selling those initial CSeries planes at a loss would be grounds for a WTO dumping case. Airbus lost their shirts on the initial tranche of
90 Post contains images Lightsaber : Not a bad year at all. Bombardier is unfortunate to launch an airframe in the worst airline economic climate... ever. I missed that detail. I caught
91 Stitch : But when you look at the program as a whole, Bombardier has been pitching this program for almost a decade, first as the BRJX in the early 2000's, an
92 JoeCanuck : Regardless of where they are on the production line, they still can't give their products away. they still have to be sold for a reasonable amount. A
93 Stitch : Looking at the entry for it on Global Security, it doesn't look all that different. 108 seats in two classes, with 2+3 abreast seating and underwing
94 JoeCanuck : While they share similar seating, the fuse and wings and engines are considerably advanced on the current iteration. ...and how many CRJ's , with tho
95 Stitch : About half (CRJ-700 / CRJ-900 / CRJ-1000).
96 Lightsaber : But I'm engine biased. I thought the BRJ-X with the PW6000 (scaled) was a good concept, but not as interesting as the C-series. I suspect some custom
97 JoeCanuck : I just did some searching on the bombardier.com site. Total orders for the CRJ 700, 900 and 1000, (in all their variants is 619. I don't know how many
98 Thegeek : Oh, I think BBD would be stoked if they sold that many. I expect they'd be pretty happy about selling 1000.
99 Astuteman : I'd venture to suggest that in all of those cases, both Airbus and Boeing are capable of showing that even those early sales weren't taken at an over
100 Panais : Indeed this seems to be the reason that airlines are not coming forward placing orders, not that they are doing it for Airbus or Boeing. Airbus is al
101 Post contains images ArabAirX : Against the entire A320 and 737 families, the CSeries didnt sell more. Airbus and Boeing do not account sales based on sub-type as you well know. If
102 Rheinbote : No switch ever. The fuselage always was Al-Li. Mitsubishi made the swith from CFRP to metal - twice, both for the wings and the fuselage. But then, p
103 Post contains images Lightsaber : First, excellent post as usual. It will be those customers Bombardier will have to pursue. It is a smaller market than the bulk of the narrowbody mar
104 DfwRevolution : Is Airbus not also looking at putting a GTF on the A320 series? Talk about lies and misrepresentation of statistics! First, Bombardier only sold 17 o
105 JoeCanuck : Was my selective use of hyperbole too subtle without smilies? I didn't say it was launched in an industry downturn. I said they sold a few billions o
106 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : They are looking at it. But they told Pratt "no." http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...20-unless-offered-through-iae.html Or more precisely: ""It w
107 Panais : Agree that it might have some effect but it validates the technology and support structure to airlines. Not everybody needs more range. For payload,
108 Post contains images ArabAirX : Extra range can be traded for extra payload - if the CSeries doesnt have the legs, it wont be able to compete efficiently with the A320/737. Promises
109 Rheinwaldner : I agree fully with that! Boeing and Airbus will not leave the 130 seat market and weaken the 150 seat market (because larger new NB's would mean that
110 Post contains links Keesje : http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...-embraer-studying-150-seater/page1 if Embraer is also studying an aicraft up to 150 seats, I can see Boeing or
111 Panais : Agree, this is why I used the word promise. Unless it flies, it is all speculation.
112 Post contains images ArabAirX : You may want to ask why then, the A350 and 787 have sold so well, prior to first flight. There is, however, no such success for the CSeries - simply
113 Post contains images Keesje : I think a big reason the 737 and A320 were prefereed for the 150 seat market sweetspot is there was no alternative. That's made it complex to select
114 Post contains images ArabAirX : I agree with you Keesje But despite the CSeries being available, the A320 and 737 continue to secure big orders.
115 Panais : This is more of a Pratt credibility issue. By the way, nobody got fired for buying Airbus or Boeing.
116 Post contains links Keesje : I see no reason why Bombardier could not offer the NG34, I think there is no exclusivity. http://www.eraa.org/intranet/documents/158/4264/GE%20-%20Av
117 Post contains images Planemaker : Rheinbote, please don't be fooled by BBD's "smoke and mirrors" presentations and swallow them "hook, line & sinker" (mixed metaphors??). Seriously, i
118 EMB4EVER : This is supposed to be a topic about a stretched version of E-195. And, guess what ? It´s again a battle A x B x BBd and its love or hate it C-Serie
119 Post contains images Flyby519 : "A source with knowledge of the situation says Embraer responded to a request for proposals to replace American Airlines' McDonnell Douglas MD-80s wit
120 Planemaker : You know that has to happen because any success of a proposed 195X depends to a certain critical degree on the competitors' offerings. And in a follo
121 Post contains links EMB4EVER : Certainly, but we should speculate ( that's what I really believe we do here in fact ) about competitors AND Embraer's proposed E195X. For my "two ce
122 Planemaker : Etc, etc, etc... I agree completely. However, as I pointed out, E allows an airline to mix 'n match from 4 sizes already... and with a 195X that woul
123 EMB4EVER : I know what you mean, but with no exceptions, we do see only one or two types in the fleets ... E170 and E190 with Finnair just citing one example. H
124 Planemaker : There is one exception of an airline with the 170/175/195 in their fleet. What is surprising is that there are a few with either just the lower pair
125 behramjee : The E-Jets family line of aircraft has proven to be a big hit with airlines due to its lower purchase and operating trip costs on short haul flights u
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