Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Would Virgin Atlantic Start Service To Moscow?  
User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 9015 times:

Does anyone see Virgin Atlantic ever flying to Moscow?

It seems Russia would fit into there category of places to fly?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 8990 times:

They used to. On the way to NRT. I remember the nightstops.

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8854 times:

Not Virgin Atlantic, but there have been various rumours about Virgin Russia materialising - including a (very brief) reference to it in Branson's Business Stripped Bare book.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 922 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8628 times:

Ten (?) years ago, Virgin Atlantic and BMI were both seeking to receive authorization to fly to Moscow. Virgin Atlantic proposed A340-300 service (although perhaps the eventually displaced A321 from Athens) would have been smarter.

[Edited 2010-01-27 12:37:03 by srbmod]

User currently offlineBoeing77W From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8431 times:

The CAA have placed the following condition on their AOC:

"No services may be operated between London and Moscow if to do so would restrict or inhibit either British Airways plc or British Midland Airways Limited from operating such services."

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/183/Virgin...edule%20-%206%20July%20%202005.pdf

Any idea why?


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3985 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7494 times:



Quoting Boeing77W (Reply 4):

Some sort of restrictive bilateral, maybe?


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6948 times:

Oh god. How anti-competitive can that be. I would love to see Virgin expand into Russia. Russia could use better domestic air service but the economy and government are real obstacles. The masses may not be able to afford Virgin prices on domestic routes.

User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6554 times:



Quoting Vasu (Reply 5):
Some sort of restrictive bilateral, maybe?

Almost certainly. BMI and Transaero entered the market (and code share) but keeps the balance between 2 russian and 2 UK carriers frequencies.



I would stick my neck out and say the restrictions are more the russian end at this time: air market liberalisation takes time and inevitably emerging economies (albiet va ery important and wealthy one) want to get sensible stability in domestic markets before opening the door wider.

Russian domestic and international carriers have come a long way since the market economy was embraced (to their credit)


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6421 times:

Besides the AOC problems (detailed above) there's also the visa situation to take into consideration. I believe there is huge tourist potential to Moscow and other Russian cities but getting a visa for UK nationals can take time and/or can be costly. That is why air services will be slow to develop.

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6394 times:



Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
but getting a visa for UK nationals can take time and/or can be costly. That is why air services will be slow to develop.

On the contrary, it's quite a simple and straightforward process.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6367 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 9):
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
but getting a visa for UK nationals can take time and/or can be costly. That is why air services will be slow to develop.

On the contrary, it's quite a simple and straightforward process.

You didn't comment on the "costly" reference. What do you have to pay for a Russian visa?


User currently offlineWilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

When VS were operating the 321 to ATH there were rumours, quite well publicised in magazines such as Airliner World, that VS wanted to start services to Moscow from LHR using their 321s. There was a suggestion at the time that VS would slowly start to expand mid haul routes. Clearly this did not happen as VS got rid of their 321s in around 2001 and concentrated on long haul routes.

Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 1):
They used to. On the way to NRT. I remember the nightstops.

Really? Surely this was c.1990 when they first started NRT?


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3055 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

I don't see it happening anytime soon, unless VS were to buy BMI and operate the route as a legacy of the takeover...

All the birds VS have are all far too big to be operating the route as a start up and an A320/321 would be far more ideal. Once the route becomes an established their ould possibly be demand for an A330 or A340.


User currently offlineAeolus From Mexico, joined Aug 2007, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

Hello, don't know whether to start another thread or post here, so here it goes.

It seems like VS is concentrated in long-haul operations no less than 6+ hour long flights and seeing Moscow here as a potential destination makes me wonder... what is the bussiness VS looks for? Or better yet, what sort of bussiness does Sir Richard Branson and Virgin Group look for? Why isn't there a domestic service for the UK or intraeuropean flights that could work really well?

Is there a reason for them not to have a Euro-Virgin or something of that sort? Because there's Virgin Blue that flies in the Pacific Ocean Islands, Oz and Kiwiland, there was Virgin Nigeria, there's Virgin America and now there might be Virgin-Caribbean (with the introduction of CUN, it's just a random name I came up with...) and the thing I don't get is why there isn't UK or European services... can anyone explain?

It's good they want to add Moscow [(SVO or DME) does anyone know which one they would go for?] because that would bring them closer to a European service that I've wondered. What sort of fleet would they use because I wouldn't think an A340 or A333 be efficient in such short routes? Maybe the A32X family?

Thanks, just curious. I'd love to see European desinations added.

-Aeolus.



Flying under the clouds above!
User currently offlineSignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 3025 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5908 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
You didn't comment on the "costly" reference. What do you have to pay for a Russian visa?

I paid £94 a few years ago, though it was through an agency. Filled in a form online, sent off my passport, and a few weeks later it arrived back complete with visa.

Our route to Russia was STN-DUS-HEL with Air Berlin, then train to St Petersburg, and on to Moscow, then DME-TXL with dba and TXL-STN with Air Berlin again.

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineLX138 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

I would think Moscow would be not viable with the aircraft VS currently operate, but the A330 may offer the opportunity should they get the rights to fly there, as it's smaller and probably more suited. (these are on order).

Quoting Aeolus (Reply 13):
It seems like VS is concentrated in long-haul operations no less than 6+ hour long flights and seeing Moscow here as a potential destination makes me wonder... what is the bussiness VS looks for? Or better yet, what sort of bussiness does Sir Richard Branson and Virgin Group look for? Why isn't there a domestic service for the UK or intraeuropean flights that could work really well?

Yes they had one - it was called Virgin Express and was Brussels based. It was then merged with what is now Brussels Airlines and that airline essentially took over their operations and branding.
UK wise - any startup airline here is going to have an enormous challenge to compete with rampant competition - probably the toughest competition in Europe to survive, hence the idea hasn't materialised! One would have to compete with BA, BD, U2, FR, Flybe and Eastern on domestic flights alone as well as the train network. The government is also particularly 'anti-domestic flights' at the moment,



StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1433 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5800 times:



Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
I believe there is huge tourist potential to Moscow and other Russian cities but getting a visa for UK nationals can take time and/or can be costly.

Many visa applications in the world take indeed some time, for Russian visa normal applications (not the fishy ones: young guys requiring business visa etc.) will and are processed within 2 weeks, often faster.

About the cost, for Schengen nationals 35 euro, for UK and RoI citizens it could be more i guess 60 euro.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4577 times:



Quoting Mutu (Reply 7):
Quoting Vasu (Reply 5):
Some sort of restrictive bilateral, maybe?

Almost certainly. BMI and Transaero entered the market (and code share) but keeps the balance between 2 russian and 2 UK carriers frequencies.

I understand the equal number of flights on both the UK/Russia sides, but if VS and a 3rd Russian airline wished to start LHR-MOW, surely that would retain 'equality' on both sides and resolve that issue? It seems a very wierd restriction on the VS AOC



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4475 times:



Quoting Willd (Reply 11):
Really? Surely this was c.1990 when they first started NRT?

Hi

Virgin started Tokyo via Moscow with 747-200's in May 1989 from LGW, I have a postcard somewhere advertising the Moscow service.

Hong Kong started in 1994 and I think that was around the same time they got the A340's. This is what I am not sure of but maybe round that time NRT changed to the A340 and went non stop. However that would mean that SVO operated for around five years and I don't think that it did. Its more likely that NRT service went non stop when they moved it from LGW to LHR in 1991, but could a 747-200 operate NRT non-stop?

Alex


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4280 times:



Quoting Richcandy (Reply 18):
Virgin started Tokyo via Moscow with 747-200's in May 1989 from LGW, I have a postcard somewhere advertising the Moscow service.



Aeroflot777


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 4119 times:

Thanks, Aeroflot777

Thats the one!

Alex


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Virgin Atlantic To Join Star Alliance? posted Tue Dec 23 2008 09:04:36 by Ssublyme
Virgin Atlantic To Fly 744 With Biofuel LHR-AMS posted Sun Feb 24 2008 04:23:57 by WF2BNN
Rumor: Virgin Atlantic To Fly LHR-SEA? posted Sat Jan 5 2008 18:37:46 by Dutchdragon
Virgin Atlantic To Launch More Indian Services posted Mon Aug 27 2007 14:56:23 by Concorde001
Loads On Virgin Atlantic To SYD posted Fri Jun 8 2007 10:19:44 by BDRules
Virgin Atlantic To Serve Nairobi From Jun07 posted Fri Dec 15 2006 16:47:00 by Sevenheavy
Virgin Atlantic To Where? posted Fri Oct 20 2006 12:40:33 by Anirudhvs
Virgin Atlantic To Beirut? posted Tue Jul 4 2006 20:58:01 by BA
Virgin Atlantic To Introduce A Modified Livery Thi posted Sat May 20 2006 10:57:40 by HARLEYF150
Virgin Atlantic To Fly To Brasil posted Mon May 15 2006 11:38:14 by Nicolasdec
Virgin Atlantic 44 Diverts To MSP posted Mon Jan 18 2010 20:22:46 by Tys777
When Did CX Start Service To LAX? posted Sat Jan 16 2010 14:23:38 by 747400sp
Virgin Atlantic JFK Service posted Sat Jun 13 2009 07:05:55 by Planetime