Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 21 Posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3556 times:
The Dutch aviation site has an interesting two part interview with Peter Hartman, KLM CEO. The most interesting parts (IMHO):
* Planes are filling up again, but yield is still low;
* C class is still falling behind;
* Economy Comfort is a hit, much better than expected;
* No further fleet cuts and route cuts are planned;
* He sees great opportunities in Asia if JL joines Skyteam;
* The PrivatAir flight to IAH will remain, but no further destinations are planned;
* In 2010 the decision for widebody fleet replacement is expected;
* The 744 combi's are first to go, followed by the MD11. He expects the MD11 to remain in the fleet until 2014-2015;
* In ten years, he expects AFKL to have both the 787 and the a350 in it's fleet. He gives the example of SQ and UA that have ordered both and he expects AFKL to do the same;
* In 10 years no more 744's in AFKL fleet;
* At the moment, the 77W is the preferred aircraft for 400+ pax;
* F100 almost out of the fleet. There are 5 left as reserve capacity;
* F50 almost gone, no 50 seat replacement will be bought as there are too few routes that require aircraft that small;
* Algae are the future of biofuels.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3377 times:
No word about Flying Blue??? This is the priority KLM CEO gives to its frequent flyers...this is deeply depressing...
Quoting Kappel (Thread starter): * At the moment, the 77W is the preferred aircraft for 400+ pax;
Any more details? He said that the B77W is his favourite airline becauser it can pack 400 pax in one plane?
Quoting Kappel (Thread starter): * F100 almost out of the fleet. There are 5 left as reserve capacity;
* F50 almost gone, no 50 seat replacement will be bought as there are too few routes that require aircraft that small;
Excellent development and the Embraers are doing great in KL fleet.
Quoting Kappel (Thread starter): * No further fleet cuts and route cuts are planned;
But capacity/frequency may still be cut...
Quoting Kappel (Thread starter): * Economy Comfort is a hit, much better than expected;
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18502 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3134 times:
With the departure of the 744 Combi fleet, obviously the carrier will loose valuable cargo revenue stream, but more importantly great flexibility in many markets where the combi was very helpful in better matching passenger capacity and frequency including on seasonal basis.
So while a 777/787/A350 mix might be the future of AFKL it will be interesting to see how KL manages frequency and capacity in its current combi markets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2846 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1): Any more details? He said that the B77W is his favourite airline becauser it can pack 400 pax in one plane?
Well, he did say the 748 was not being ruled out, but it's not really on the table at the moment either. I really hope this small chance of the 748 will materialize.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1): Of course, it is for free for Platinum members...
But aren't platinum members the pax that are usually in C on long haul flights?
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3): great flexibility in many markets where the combi was very helpful in better matching passenger capacity and frequency including on seasonal basis
That's why these will be replaced by smaller aircraft with similar (pax) capacity. I suppose the loss in freight capacity will be compesated by cargo aircraft. They have plenty spare capacity in that regard at the moment.
B764 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 721 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2354 times:
Wonder what will come into ORD when the 74M goes. Guess I better get those pics while I can. Not that I have anything against an MD-11, but I'm a 747 man.
Airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3550 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
When B744Combi are going, and KL still has the need to offer maindeck capacity on these destinations, then I'm sure that they will work something out with MP. The KL/AF group is currently working on this, and MP seems to become the groups cargo-airline.
KLM might focus fully on the passenger market, and of course takes lowerdeck cargo on their flights, but maindeck cargo will be taken care off by MP in the future.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6637 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1797 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 9): Could be 777, could be a332, could be the replacement aircraft (787 or a350).
I guess the 777-200ER would be a good choice in terms of capacity... and the A330-200 too, but I wonder if the KL A332s would be able to take off from MEX with a full pax and cargo load on a hot summer day.
Seems to me we will eventually see 787s and/or A350XWBs, but considering the plan for retiring the 744Combis, KL will need to figure out an interim solution. A 77W would be great, but I guess it is too big for the route.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18502 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1749 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 5): That's why these will be replaced by smaller aircraft with similar (pax) capacity. I suppose the loss in freight capacity will be compesated by cargo aircraft. They have plenty spare capacity in that regard at the moment.
I understand that, however I was always under the impression from my days of knowing some in the KLM America's sales management that the cargo portion with the Combi was the critical element in making several routes viable and it was not the passengers revenues that kept the group in the black in several US markets.
Just seems with the loss of the Combi's KL will be stuck reliant on passenger revenues while loosing great flexibility in being able to mix/match capacity around with the Combi's.
I'm sure they know what they are doing, and the decision makes the best overall sense for the airline, however I wonder if some markets will see consolidation or changes with the withdrawal of the Combi's as they might not be sustainable year-round with pure passenger capacity financially.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 71 Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1706 times:
Quoting B764 (Reply 7): Wonder what will come into ORD when the 74M goes. Guess I better get those pics while I can. Not that I have anything against an MD-11, but I'm a 747 man.
I've flown a few times on KL's B74M combi's from ORD. Weird to see the back of a B747 "walled-off"..
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13): I understand that, however I was always under the impression from my days of knowing some in the KLM America's sales management that the cargo portion with the Combi was the critical element in making several routes viable and it was not the passengers revenues that kept the group in the black in several US markets.
OK, I understand your point. I'm sure that KL will miss the combi's as well. I've heard about this as well indeed. Perhaps that now with the synergies with AF and the lower casm of the new aircraft (be it 787 or a350) that these routes become viable without the extra cargo on the combi's.
But I'm sure that if some regulations change that allows cargo and pax to be carried on the same deck, KL would be all over that aircraft (the 748 for example).
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 17760 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
Quoting BNE (Reply 10): Which routes do the 747 combis do.
Current KL schedules show the following 74M combi routes. I may have missed something.
JFK (on 1 of their 2 flights 5 days a week; 772 the other 2 days)
ORD
LAX
IAH
MEX
BKK-TPE (5 days a week, other 2 days all passenger 744)
HKG
PEK
PVG
ICN
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7913 posts, RR: 14 Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1407 times:
Quoting Kappel (Reply 5): That's why these will be replaced by smaller aircraft with similar (pax) capacity. I suppose the loss in freight capacity will be compesated by cargo aircraft. They have plenty spare capacity in that regard at the moment.
That sounds good but what happens if a combi destination only has a few cargo pallets as belly cargo, sufficient to warrant a combi aircraft but no other destination is served by KL in the vicinity of that combi destination? Are you going to just send a 744ERF only to fly a few pallets that would otherwise have been loaded onto a combi 744? The 77W would be too big to fly to combi destinations(?)
JRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4492 posts, RR: 54 Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1346 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 18):
That sounds good but what happens if a combi destination only has a few cargo pallets as belly cargo, sufficient to warrant a combi aircraft but no other destination is served by KL in the vicinity of that combi destination?
I guess you wouldn't send a combi for 'a few belly pallets' anyway, KL needs to fill 7 maindeck pallets. 7 pallets, especially when combined to a (just saying something) 4x weekly sounds like a pretty nice stop for a MP MD-11 milkrun like they are doing now.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
Peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1079 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1318 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13): the cargo portion with the Combi was the critical element in making several routes viable
Without the Combi, a weak element in what made certain routes sustainable for KLM will become exposed. No doubt. To fly a MP Cargo aircraft around to fill that gap does not necessarily address the passenger LF/yield issue they face keeping the same passenger schedule. Adjustments will have to be made and I wouldn't be surprised if KL will have to cut 1 or 2 routes in favor of AF/CDG.
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 7913 posts, RR: 14 Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1296 times:
Quoting JRadier (Reply 19): I guess you wouldn't send a combi for 'a few belly pallets' anyway, KL needs to fill 7 maindeck pallets. 7 pallets, especially when combined to a (just saying something) 4x weekly sounds like a pretty nice stop for a MP MD-11 milkrun like they are doing now.
If you have sufficient passengers (including their baggage), why not use a combi aircraft on such a route? It happened to CUR several times. Even so, you are right with the MP milkrun.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 56 Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1279 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4):
Less well by what measurement?
No measurement, it is obvious the Embraers have been a total success both from a technical perspective and from a pax perspective.
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8): I wonder what kind of plane will be sent to MEX once the 744-Combis are retired? 777s?
Hi, Eddie! I think MEX could become B772 complemented with MP cargo flights. KL is currently doing the same in GRU where it is deploying the B772 (5 weekly) and B77W (2 weekly) plus cargo is complemented with MP MD-11F AMS-VCP 4 weekly. MP already flies to many South American destination and the newest destination is MVD.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6637 posts, RR: 51 Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1180 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22): Hi, Eddie! I think MEX could become B772 complemented with MP cargo flights. KL is currently doing the same in GRU where it is deploying the B772 (5 weekly) and B77W (2 weekly) plus cargo is complemented with MP MD-11F AMS-VCP 4 weekly. MP already flies to many South American destination and the newest destination is MVD.
Thanks Hardi, seems reasonable. The KL 777-200ERs are also 10-abreast in coach, right?
25 Frigatebird: Not yet. But the seat pitch is only 31", and when the person in front of you reclines its seat to the fullest, you'll feel really cramped indeed. For
26 Airbuseric: They won't fly KLM anymore, so need to worry about that...
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