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Rossiya To Merge With Aeroflot  
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8339 times:



Quote:
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin agreed on Tuesday with proposals to transform the state transportation company Rossiya into a joint-stock company in 2010 and merge it with the flagship air carrier Aeroflot.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/business/20100202/157751083.html

As far as my information goes also KMV and Orenburg airlines will be merged into SU.

Quite different than what was proposed a year ago with the Rosavia merger to create a bloc against SU.

What will be the destiny for FV, or will things not change much?


Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8046 times:

If this happens, would SU be inclined to scale back FV's rather impressive number of international destinations and long-haul Russian Far East flights from LED in order to funnel more traffic through SVO? It appears that FV has very low frequency service to many these destinations from LED. Since the fall of Communism, what is the history of SU at LED related to international flights and long-haul domestic flights? It appears SU now only has service to from LED to SVO and KGD(?).

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4914 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7976 times:

Sounds like if this happens Aeroflot will end up on LED-LHR/LGW again!


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7748 times:



Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 1):
It appears SU now only has service to from LED to SVO and KGD(?).

Correct, at the moment only SVO-LED-SVO and LED-KGD-LED.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Sounds like if this happens Aeroflot will end up on LED-LHR/LGW again!

Well they will appear then on other routes as well, not only on LED-LHR/LGW.

I can't imagine the Russian far east flights to tunnel all through SVO as the demand is there to justify nonstop flights.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7500 times:



Quoting Severnaya (Reply 3):

Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 1):
It appears SU now only has service to from LED to SVO and KGD(?).

Correct, at the moment only SVO-LED-SVO and LED-KGD-LED.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Sounds like if this happens Aeroflot will end up on LED-LHR/LGW again!

Well they will appear then on other routes as well, not only on LED-LHR/LGW.

I can't imagine the Russian far east flights to tunnel all through SVO as the demand is there to justify nonstop flights.

All I can say is Congratulations to Skyteam for their domination of the Russian Market  


User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7208 times:



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 4):
All I can say is Congratulations to Skyteam for their domination of the Russian Market

Until S7 joins OW this year!


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

This is interesting. This move will certainly strengthen SU and SkyTeam.

I wonder if SU will run a dual-hub (SVO and LED) operation or if SVO will be prioritized.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

Wil SU then do the VIP IL96 fligths for Russian leaders?

User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6951 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
This move will certainly strengthen SU and SkyTeam.

I'm not sure if it will strengthen SU, they will have to deal with all the debts of the other airlines as well now, and these are huge. KMV, Saravia, OrenAir and Sahalin Airlines have large debts and few assets. Rossiya and Vladivostok Avia are the two most interesting parts of the deal for SU, both their finances, network, as well as their fleet commonality.

Management of SU did not have any choice, it's a move of the government after all.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
I wonder if SU will run a dual-hub (SVO and LED) operation or if SVO will be prioritized.

They will run dual hub for sure for the next few years, especially with the current problems at SVO.

LED will stay a hub as it is now for FV, however it will be more streamlined and marginal routes will most likely be tunneled through SVO i guess & hope.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6865 times:



Quoting Severnaya (Reply 8):
They will run dual hub for sure for the next few years, especially with the current problems at SVO.

LED will stay a hub as it is now for FV, however it will be more streamlined and marginal routes will most likely be tunneled through SVO i guess & hope.

It's very surprising that SU funnels all LED traffic through SVO and that there are NO other flights at all except for KGD (it's also surprising that they don't serve GOJ at all, but that's a different discussion altogether). If I recall correctly, during the USSR days, when flying in that country was much more limited in general, SU had at least a few nonstop flights out of LED. With the fall of the USSR and advances in the Russian aviation market due to capitalism, they went towards a true hub and spoke model, which is what exists today. Nevertheless, for a city the size of LED, one would except at least a few international flights, maybe at minimum to places like TLV, JFK, and LON. Hopefully with this merger, we'll see some of this.


User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6830 times:



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 9):
If I recall correctly, during the USSR days, when flying in that country was much more limited in general, SU had at least a few nonstop flights out of LED

Well, there is a highspeed train now between LED and MOW . Takes only 4 hours, so everyone from LED can easily connect in MOW to all destinations. And the train is a lot cheaper as well.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

So after this merger which serious airlines will be left in Russia?

What is the state of Rossiya's fleet? Do they still operate some Tupolevs? And what will Aeroflot do will all those planes?
After all they can try to do what Lufty did in Frankfurt and Munich... is it possible? I mean St. Petersburg is a big enough city to rely on O&D at first.


User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6782 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Well, there is a highspeed train now between LED and MOW . Takes only 4 hours, so everyone from LED can easily connect in MOW to all destinations. And the train is a lot cheaper as well.

Right, and as far as I know, this is still the preferred method of travel - but only BETWEEN St. Petersburg and Moscow (as O&D points). I'm pretty sure that most people don't take the train from LED to MOW only to then go to SVO or DME and catch a flight from there. What I was saying though is that I'm really surprised that SU doesn't at least have a few flights here and there on route such as LED-TLV, LED-JFK, LED-LGW, etc. Surely, there has to be enough demand for something like this. I understand why they don't have it as it relates to the SVO hub and spoke model, but LED just seems like too big of a city for SU to only have flights to SVO and KGD from. Hopefully with the Rossiya merger, they'll actually keep some of FV's nonstop routes without eliminating them.


User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2358 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6777 times:

Rossiya no longer operates any Tupolev aircraft, they have a fleet of 2 An-148s (with more on order), 5 B737-500s, 9 A319-100s, 5 A320-200s and 3 B767-300ERs. They have cut back quite a bit and retired their last Tu-154s before Aeroflot retired theirs. Let's wait and see what really happens, there have been lots and lots of announcements over the last two years and as of right now, all of these carriers are still operating independently.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6748 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
And the train is a lot cheaper as well.

Not true. Sapsan is considerably more expensive than plane. Furthermore i know nobody in LED who first take the train to MOW and then connects to LHR, CDG or whatever city.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 11):
What is the state of Rossiya's fleet? Do they still operate some Tupolevs? And what will Aeroflot do will all those planes?

They operate a mix of A319,A320, B735, B763 and AN-148, so a good match with SU except for the B735 but their leasing contracts are close to the end IIRC. However i don't think we see too soon any change.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Well if Rossiya is operating fine, why wouldn't SU keep it like that? At least they can co-ordinate their flights?
But then again who will SU compete against on the SVO-LED flight?


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6705 times:



Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 13):
Let's wait and see what really happens, there have been lots and lots of announcements over the last two years and as of right now, all of these carriers are still operating independently.

True, however Mr. Putin didn't sign anything before, and the carriers are in a 'not so good' state, so waiting any longer would certainly result in more bankruptcies which the government doesn't want.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 12):
What I was saying though is that I'm really surprised that SU doesn't at least have a few flights here and there on route such as LED-TLV, LED-JFK, LED-LGW, etc.

SU did actually not compete with FV due to being both partly government owned and because of ties between the two companies. Thats why SU doesn't operate out of LED except for SVO & KGD (KGD only after the collapse of KD Avia and in cooperation with FV).



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6683 times:

Due to not being able to edit my above post due to the updated website a double post:

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):
But then again who will SU compete against on the SVO-LED flight?

They compete on LED-MOW with UT, UN, SkyExpress, S7.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6665 times:
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That is a shame , I think that Rossiya was one of the carriers which *A was talking to about Russian coverage . On the other hand it may force *A to focus their attention on getting UN alliance-ready .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6456 times:



Quoting Severnaya (Reply 8):
I'm not sure if it will strengthen SU, they will have to deal with all the debts of the other airlines as well now, and these are huge. KMV, Saravia, OrenAir and Sahalin Airlines have large debts and few assets. Rossiya and Vladivostok Avia are the two most interesting parts of the deal for SU, both their finances, network, as well as their fleet commonality.

Management of SU did not have any choice, it's a move of the government after all.

Interesting point. I wonder if the government will clean up some of these debts prior to the merger in order to make the deal a bit more palatable to SU.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 9):
for a city the size of LED, one would except at least a few international flights, maybe at minimum to places like TLV, JFK, and LON. Hopefully with this merger, we'll see some of this.

Agree!



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6405 times:



Quoting Severnaya (Reply 16):
SU did actually not compete with FV due to being both partly government owned and because of ties between the two companies. Thats why SU doesn't operate out of LED except for SVO & KGD (KGD only after the collapse of KD Avia and in cooperation with FV).

Ah ok...I didn't know that. I see that FV was established in 1992. I guess I don't really know all the history behind it, but I wonder why the government wouldn't just have SU expand its flying out of LED rather than starting a new airline.


User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6365 times:



Quoting Severnaya (Reply 16):
SU did actually not compete with FV due to being both partly government owned and because of ties between the two companies. Thats why SU doesn't operate out of LED except for SVO & KGD (KGD only after the collapse of KD Avia and in cooperation with FV).

Ah ok...I didn't know that. I see that FV was established in 1992. I guess I don't really know all the history behind it, but I wonder why the government wouldn't just have SU expland its flying out of LED rather than sta

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 9):


Quoting Severnaya (Reply 8):
They will run dual hub for sure for the next few years, especially with the current problems at SVO.

LED will stay a hub as it is now for FV, however it will be more streamlined and marginal routes will most likely be tunneled through SVO i guess & hope.

It's very surprising that SU funnels all LED traffic through SVO and that there are NO other flights at all except for KGD (it's also surprising that they don't serve GOJ at all, but that's a different discussion altogether). If I recall correctly, during the USSR days, when flying
in that country was much more limited in general, SU had at least a few nonstop flights out of LED. With the fall of the USSR and advances in the Russian aviation market due to capitalism, they went towards a true hub and spoke model, which is what exists today. Nevertheless, for a city the size of LED, one would except at least a few international flights, maybe at minimum to places like TLV, JFK, and LON. Hopefully with this merger, we'll see some of this.

I am not sure a nonstop from JFK-LED will work actually?

Rossiya currently flies nonstop daily LED-TLV and it seems this flight is profitable.

I am not really worried about LED as a airport being developed.

Can someone please tell me 2 things.

Will all planes be colored in the Aeroflot scheme or will they still be flying on there current ones, Will this be the same type of merger as Aeroflot-Don?

Also, I found this point very interesting would it be possible for Aeroflot to develop Vladivostok into a serious connection point to Asia because that I find them having the most serious oppourtunity with.


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

Wasn't there an airlines that was supposed to fly out of LED to New York?

User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Great news, I have always thought that SU must operate an important international and domestic hub in LED. There is an important traffic from LED to Europe and to CIS.

Having this part of Russia structured around LED and Nordavia network out of Arkhangelsk it's a great improvement.

Regarding Orenair, Orenburg is perfectly located to offer many connections in CIS (in particular Kazakhstan and Central Asia). With a good fleet of B738 and 734-735.

KMV I don't understand why as this airlines seems to have troubles for a long time. There is already Donavia from ROV with a good network in the region.

SU should be structured around SVO, LED and KHV. With focus airports: Arkhangelsk and Orenburg.

Maybe something is missing in the middle of the country in OVB or Krasnoyarsk.


User currently offlineAquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5794 times:



Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
Wasn't there an airlines that was supposed to fly out of LED to New York?

You mean Baltia Airlines? I don't know how seriously you should take that company


25 Aeroflot777 : Every flying craft during the Soviet Union was flown under "Aeroflot" titles. Aeroflot had many focus cities were crews were based out of. For instan
26 Post contains links Aeroflot777 : Here is another link (in Russian only at this point): http://www.gazeta.ru/travel/2010/02/02_a_3319236.shtml Looks like the airlines falling under Aer
27 Aeroflot001 : Would this also mean that the An-148 would become part of Аэрофлот painted in Аэрофлот colors? Als o what has happened to the Rossiya
28 Thomas_Jaeger : Rossiya has retired all of its Il-86s, Tu-134s and Tu-154s over the course of 2009. It has also split into two parts again last year with the LED base
29 JU068 : So after the merger, how many planes would Aeroflot have?
30 Sankaps : Very interesting development! The jewels in this merger apear to be Rossia and perhaps Vladivostok Air; SU will also likely benefit from the rights th
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