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KLM Is Back In Aruba, Pics Of 1st Flight  
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5300 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10571 times:

After almost a year after quiting the route to AUA, KLM is back twice a week with 747-400 service via Curacao. It's great to see them serve this Island again.

Pics:

http://www.luchtvaartfoto.nl/item/105/KLM_keert_terug_op_Aruba.htm

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeolus From Mexico, joined Aug 2007, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10330 times:

Why did they quit in the first place?

-Aeolus



Flying under the clouds above!
User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

because Its a niche route? and there is a global recession?


"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently offlineYYZALA From Canada, joined Nov 2009, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9761 times:

It's interesting that they have a water salute for this plane... I mean KLM is just resuming the flight. The fire department must have been bored  

User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9135 times:

It's a big deal for Aruba, especially for all the locals who travel back and forth to AMS.
A lot of people try to avoind transferring in the States.
Plus, KLM has been in AUA for ages...
Hopefully they'll increase the number of flights with the summer schedule.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2220 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9023 times:

As stated above it's only a combination flight KL 783 operating on day 1 (Monday) and 3 (Wednesday) from AMS.
So for the AMS-CUR flights a transit stop is added.


Total KLM schedule on the Dutch Antilles is during the winter time table :

Day 1 KL783 AMS-AUA-CUR-AMS B744
Day 1 KL753 AMS-BON-AMS MD11
Day 2 KL785 AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS B744
Day 3 KL735 AMS--CUR-AMS B744
Day 3 KL753 AMS-BON-AMS MD11
Day 4 KL783 AMS-AUA-CUR-AMS B744
Day 5 KL735 AMS-CUR-AMS B744
Day 5 KL763 AMS-SXM-BON-AMS MD11
Day 5 KL753 AMS-BON-AMS MD11
Day 6 KL735 AMS-CUR-AMS B744
Day 6 KL753 AMS-BON-AMS MD11
Day 7 KL785 AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS B744
Day 7 KL753 AMS-BON-AMS MD11



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8816 times:

Back in the early 90s when I was living in Guatemala, I believe KLM flew AMS-AUA-GUA before changing the flight to GUA from Mexico City. Can anyone conform this?

User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2220 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8724 times:

From 1976 KLM operated flights to/from GUA with an intermediate stop in CUR or AUA.

After the retirement of the KLM DC10's the flights to/from GUA were flown via MEX with 747-406 (combi's) aircraft.
This very profitable route was terminated due cancelling of the traffic rights to/from GUA via MEX by the Mexican Government.

see also : Mexicana 3 Daily To GUA (by Juanchito Oct 22 2005 in Civil Aviation)

and look for reply 5.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8530 times:



Quoting 747classic (Reply 7):
This very profitable route was terminated due cancelling of the traffic rights to/from GUA via MEX by the Mexican Government.

Ouch! Had no idea that that was the reason for GUA being axed!
You think a nonstop AMS-GUA could work? I mean, it's only IB in the GUA-Europe market. Nowadays many Europeans try to avoid transfering in the US on their way to Latin America...


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2220 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8386 times:

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 8):
You think a nonstop AMS-GUA could work? I mean, it's only IB in the GUA-Europe market. Nowadays many Europeans try to avoid transfering in the US on their way to Latin America...



IMO the amount of passengers and cargo doesn't justify a non stop operation.
Maybe a resurrection of the old routing via one of the ABC islands can do the trick again, but i have some doubts in the present economic circumstances.
During the KLM winterschedule all AMS-GUA flights are operated with transfer in PTY (Panama). The stretch PTY-GUA is actually flown by COPA Airlines as KL 3017.

[Edited 2010-02-04 11:50:18]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10003 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8183 times:

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 4):
It's a big deal for Aruba, especially for all the locals who travel back and forth to AMS.
A lot of people try to avoind transferring in the States.

Why transfer via the States to go to AUA from AMS? MP and OR kept flying to AUA from AMS and you can also transfer in CUR or BON. CUR may be a bit difficult due to the high load factors on this route but BON should have more seats available.

A388


User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7999 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
During the KLM winterschedule all AMS-GUA flights are operated with transfer in PTY (Panama). The stretch PTY-GUA is actually flown by COPA Airlines as KL 3017

If AMS-PTY and AMS-LIM work, why not give GUA a shot? 4 weekly 772 or so could do the trick!
Transfers to mainland Europe, incl. MXP/FCO/BCN/MAD....

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
Why transfer via the States to go to AUA from AMS? MP and OR kept flying to AUA from AMS and you can also transfer in CUR or BON. CUR may be a bit difficult due to the high load factors on this route but BON should have more seats available.

From what I've heard, a lot of local Arubans travelled through PHL, ATL , JFK and MIA to AMS even when KL still operated into AUA. Tickerts were more flexible and with US airlines bagage allowance was the piece concept.

And available seats out of BON? Maybe, but that flight KL754 starts in Guayaquil and Quito and from my experience, loads are always high!


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 11):
And available seats out of BON? Maybe, but that flight KL754 starts in Guayaquil and Quito and from my experience, loads are always high!

That is correct, the only reason KL really still serves BON is for the fuel-stop.

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 11):
If AMS-PTY and AMS-LIM work, why not give GUA a shot? 4 weekly 772 or so could do the trick!
Transfers to mainland Europe, incl. MXP/FCO/BCN/MAD....

KL's only route into Central America is the AMS-PTY route due to the code-share with CM. IB already operates from GUA to MAD via PTY and will increase frequency. Also, there isn't that much traffic between centralamerica and Europe, (outside of MAD).


User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 11):
If AMS-PTY and AMS-LIM work, why not give GUA a shot? 4 weekly 772 or so could do the trick!
Transfers to mainland Europe, incl. MXP/FCO/BCN/MAD....

Well the stop over would also have to be in high revenue both ways,



nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10003 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 4):
It's a big deal for Aruba, especially for all the locals who travel back and forth to AMS.
A lot of people try to avoind transferring in the States.
Quoting AA B777-200 (Reply 11):
From what I've heard, a lot of local Arubans travelled through PHL, ATL , JFK and MIA to AMS even when KL still operated into AUA.

Something doesn't add up here, you are contradicting yourself with the above statements.

A388


User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 14):
Something doesn't add up here, you are contradicting yourself with the above statements.

I'm just saying that locals prefer a direct flight, but US airlines have attracted many Arubans due to flexible fares and bagage allowances.


User currently offlinealwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7096 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):

That is correct, the only reason KL really still serves BON is for the fuel-stop.

Are you sure?
I have taken that flight MANY times and the package is good for KLM: the combination of BON pax and the Ecuadorian destinations fill up the plane perfectly. I doubt if the load would have been that good with a straight AMS-Ecuador flight, all year round.

Before KLM did LIM with an Antilles stop but they don´t anymore……….so I have my doubts about your fuel stop theory, to be honest as LIM is further than GYE.

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 16):

The flight operates AMS-BON-UIO-GYE-BON-AMS. Due to the cargo on the route and the fact that KL uses the MD-11, a fuel stop at BON is required.


User currently offlinealwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
The flight operates AMS-BON-UIO-GYE-BON-AMS. Due to the cargo on the route and the fact that KL uses the MD-11, a fuel stop at BON is required.

I know that! Duuuu

But a fuel stop at BON is not necessarily required, like you stated.
If you do AMS-LIM non-stop, you could run AMS-GYE non stop.
In other words, your theory about "BON is just a fuel stop" is not correct.
It is the route they choose to do, with good reason.

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 18):
If you do AMS-LIM non-stop, you could run AMS-GYE non stop.
In other words, your theory about "BON is just a fuel stop" is not correct.
It is the route they choose to do, with good reason.

Yeah, the reason is for a fuel-stop on the way back to AMS from GYE. The flight doesn't run AMS-GYE! It stops at Quito, which is over 9,000 ft. above sea-level. Therefore, the flight faces weight restrictions!


User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7013 times:

From what I understand is the only reason why KLM doesn't fly nonstop from Equador to AMS is runway length at GYE. At only 2800m it'll have a pretty hefty payload restriction for a longhaul flight. Nonstop UIO-AMS is out of the question due to perfomance issues (9228ft elevation, 1 engine inop climb requirements).

User currently offlinealwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
Yeah, the reason is for a fuel-stop on the way back to AMS from GYE. The flight doesn't run AMS-GYE! It stops at Quito, which is over 9,000 ft. above sea-level. Therefore, the flight faces weight restrictions!

No, it is AMS-BON-GYE-UIO-BON-AMS.

It goes to GYE first, before Quito. There is no flight GYE-AMS, it goes UIO-AMS, with a stop at BON.
So I repeat, it would be easy to refuel in GYE or UIO and make it back to AMS if KLM wanted to.

The point remains: KLM does BON for revenue reasons and combines this with refueling.
They do NOT do this purely for refueling like you stated.

Regards,

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6983 times:

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 21):
It goes to GYE first, before Quito. There is no flight GYE-AMS, it goes UIO-AMS, with a stop at BON.
So I repeat, it would be easy to refuel in GYE or UIO and make it back to AMS if KLM wanted to.

The point remains: KLM does BON for revenue reasons and combines this with refueling.
They do NOT do this purely for refueling like you stated.

Your right, the flight is routed GYE-UIO-BON-AMS on the return. Therefore I maintain that the main reason for the stop at BON is for refueling. KL would most likely handover AMS-BON to MP if it didn't serve UIO/GYE.


User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6957 times:

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 21):
So I repeat, it would be easy to refuel in GYE or UIO and make it back to AMS if KLM wanted to.

No they can't, for the reasons I stated in reply 20.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 21):
It goes to GYE first, before Quito. There is no flight GYE-AMS, it goes UIO-AMS, with a stop at BON.
So I repeat, it would be easy to refuel in GYE or UIO and make it back to AMS if KLM wanted to.

The point remains: KLM does BON for revenue reasons and combines this with refueling.
They do NOT do this purely for refueling like you stated.

KL does well with premium traffic and cargo between AMS and UIO/GYE. They could care less about AMS-BON revenues. KL does well with the main revenues between the AMS and UIO/GYE sectors on the route.


25 alwaysontherun : Yes, I saw that and I have my doubts about that, but all will be revealed with UIO´s new airport which is due to open soon. Then they have all
26 76er : Yes, that will be interesting to see. The new airport will have a 3600m runway but still be 7900ft above sea level. So that in combination with the su
27 alwaysontherun : 76er, another thing I forgot to mention to you: Iberia flies their A345 from GYE to MAD, non-stop. Are you sure the MD-11 would not be able to do GYE-
28 76er : MAD is quite a bit closer to Equador than AMS. From what I can remember, the MD11 is limited to about 265t when departing GYE in dry conditions and 20
29 alwaysontherun : Please correct me if I am wrong, but the difference between GYE-AMS and GYE-MAD is about 900 km, not a shocking diference. I do not know about the ex
30 KL911 : IB doesn't have 345's....
31 alwaysontherun : My bad, sorry! Still, the point remains. ### "I am always on the Run"###
32 747classic : KL 763 from SXM gives the best change to get a seat from BON to AMS. Here are the aircraft rotations for the carribean (winterschedule) : Day 1 KL783
33 AA B777-200 : Correct me if I'm wrong.... At one point KLM flew daily M11s AMS-AUA-LIM and AMS-CUR-GYE-UIO-CUR-AMS. But the airline got a better deal and moved the
34 alwaysontherun : I believe it is 6 times now. Why, thank you. The 10 times I took that flight I witnessed a win / win situation: Full to BON, 70% full to Ecuador, 80%
35 SCL767 : Because the flight does well with PREMIUM traffic and cargo (Royal Dutch Shell). I'm sure that if KL dropped BON, MP will operate the AMS-BON-AMS rou
36 Post contains images 76er : Because it will turn the goldmine into a diamondmine.   Crewcost for example on this rotation are astronomical. At any one time there are at l
37 Post contains images SCL767 :    Well stated!
38 alwaysontherun : Exactly my point, there is obviously a market for BON to go through all that trouble and expense. They could skip BON on the way to Ecuador and save
39 AA B777-200 : Diamondmine? Ha ha ha I love it! I'm a F/A with KLM doing the BON flight quite often. Most pax are GYE/UIO bound and ofcourse around the Dutch holiday
40 SCL767 : In 1937, Shell Oil Company established a base at Shell Mera, Ecuador. That would be great if these routes were to come to fruition.
41 Post contains images Kappel : Haha, you're just looking for a new destination for yourself,   How is that now, do you know that? US airlines have not really abandoned the piece c
42 AA B777-200 : Careful MrKappel... Your PBM flight might just be cancelled! Or sometimes the F/A might ACCIDENTALLY drop a tray with tomato juice in your lap when y
43 alwaysontherun : Okay, there we go, perhaps a change of route. Well, it surprises me, but it is good news. IF it were to be true. UIO direct from AMS, hey? GYE via PT
44 Post contains images AA B777-200 : I guess we'll have to wait and see. For now.... back to AUA. Let's just hope Aruba brings in plenty of cash so that KLM might restart a termintaor fli
45 SCL767 : No layovers in CUR?
46 Post contains images Kappel : Haha, not a chance... Well, I'm very glad then that you won't be on my flights, hahaha... and I don't wear white pants..   See.... you're only looki
47 AA B777-200 : Oh yes SCL767, we have the 48hr latovers in CUR and lonfger stops in BON. But with a chance of AUA returning to our list, that would be great. There
48 LTU932 : Isn't PTY by itself already successful? And besides, if they were to feed the PTY flight with passengers from GYE, wouldn't it make more sense to cod
49 747classic : The 48 hours KL layover in CUR is not necessary for company work and resting time regulations,. It's the outcome of negotiations with the unions. In
50 SCL767 : Haven't been to BON as yet, just AUA, CUR and SXM. CUR is very nice IMO, but if you want to hit the beach, AUA and/or SXM are the places to go. Inter
51 Post contains images Kappel : Well, I'm preparing myself to be surprised. Just 2 1/2 weeks to go..   But you haven't answered my question yet: Do you, from your experience, think
52 A388 : BON to my knowledge was chosen for one main reason, better fuel price. The BON route can easily be served on two weekly nonstop flights. UIO cannot b
53 LTU932 : Just to add, most carriers flying into UIO actually do the required fuelstop in GYE. KL seems to be one of the, if not THE exception with their stop
54 Post contains images AA B777-200 : Looks like someone did his homework! But you're right! A 24hr layover is sufficient according to out Work/Rest regulations. Even if the flight is via
55 747classic : AMS-UIO can be flown, but UIO-AMS is impossible, due T/O weight restrictions. (high elevation airport) Additional T/O weight restrictions are in force
56 Post contains images GlobeTrekker : Hi A388. How are you? Long time! Anyway, many Arubians (including myself) travelled from AMS to AUA via the USA. Believe it or not the prices were mu
57 Post contains images AA B777-200 : GlobeTrekker, Thanks for your statements and clearing up a few concerns. Where would we be without you??? Maybe CUR should get a daily nonstop!! Perha
58 GlobeTrekker : LOL! Okay, deal.
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