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MAS And EZE  
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Hi,

I know this may have been discussed before, but what is the history/purpose behind MAS and their EZE ops? I know they link KUL and BA via CPT and JNB. This route has been around for awhile, and it's interesting how they've chosen EZE over GRU as their South American link. How is it performing in this current economy?


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24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

IIRC they chose to add the CPT-EZE extension for two reasons: the KUL-South Africa leg alone would not generate enough volume, and the other logical choice -GRU- already had service to South Africa at the time.

The 2x weekly flight does really well between EZE-CPT/JNB on the passenger side. Its also carries a lot of South America-Asia (and vice versa) cargo, and they use a B744 Combi. MAS has a big cargo division so they can consolidate and distribute cargo efficiently at KUL.

But going back to the question in the OP - IMO part of the motivation to start this route was prestige. MAS was and still is run like an old-fashioned national flag carrier of Malaysia, and they often boast about being the only or one of the only airlines to fly to all six continents.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 3028 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Would it not be more viable thpough to go through just Jo'burg or CPT and not both? Seems like a more drawn out process with the 2 stops in the 1 country, where no local traffic rights on that leg between the 2 cities could be obtained.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3829 times:
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Quoting OP3000 (Reply 1):
IIRC they chose to add the CPT-EZE extension for two reasons: the KUL-South Africa leg alone would not generate enough volume, and the other logical choice -GRU- already had service to South Africa at the time.

Agree with you, why to consider compete against SA when there's other options ? Another point to take into consideration, and the most important, the bilateral between Brazil and Malaysia is dated from 2007 on ANAC website so i believe when they decided to venture into EZE, the bilateral was not negotiated. Now they can fly 2x weekly with B744 to GIG or GRU with ston in 5 points to be selected, with 5th freedom. The question is if South Africa will give rights also.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3814 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Another point to take into consideration, and the most important, the bilateral between Brazil and Malaysia is dated from 2007 on ANAC website so i believe when they decided to venture into EZE, the bilateral was not negotiated.

Correct, the flight's been around since the 90's. They had to suspend it temporarily in 2000-2002 due to the Argentinean economic crisis, according to them because they couldn't receive payment for bookings due to the Corralito bank regulations.

Also, last year they wanted to go from 2x to 3x, but the South African government told them they couldn't because SA is going to launch service this year from JNB a few times a week also.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3798 times:
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Quoting OP3000 (Reply 4):
Also, last year they wanted to go from 2x to 3x, but the South African government told them they couldn't because SA is going to launch service this year from JNB a few times a week also.

It's bad because they good into a situation where there's no way out... SA can increase service and "kill" MH. Even if they decide to venture into GIG, the only big market without link to JNB nowadays, i see SA reacting very soon after they announce such route.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3728 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 1):
The 2x weekly flight does really well between EZE-CPT/JNB on the passenger side. Its also carries a lot of South America-Asia (and vice versa) cargo, and they use a B744 Combi. MAS has a big cargo division so they can consolidate and distribute cargo efficiently at KUL.

I have in the past tried to get quotes for fares between CPT and EZE on random dates and they always seem to be very, very expensive. Dunno what the loads look like, but I guess that insofar as the company makes a profit, we will continue to see them operating this route.



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User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3540 times:
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Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
SA can increase service and "kill" MH. Even if they decide to venture into GIG

Yes, SA may very well do so. However, would SA necessarily do it against their new codeshare partner on the JNB-KUL-JNB route? There has to be some degree of good faith between SA and MH?


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

A good friend of mine works for MH here in Buenos Aires and according to her flights are always full, with a huge percentage of Chionese nationals heading back and forth to China. She also claims that rumour has it that SA will probably stop their flights to EZE after the world cup ...


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3398 times:
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Quoting SA7700 (Reply 7):
Yes, SA may very well do so. However, would SA necessarily do it against their new codeshare partner on the JNB-KUL-JNB route? There has to be some degree of good faith between SA and MH?



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 8):
A good friend of mine works for MH here in Buenos Aires and according to her flights are always full, with a huge percentage of Chionese nationals heading back and forth to China. She also claims that rumour has it that SA will probably stop their flights to EZE after the world cup ...

If SA stop the flights, then MH will have all conditions to increase flights to EZE.
As pointed out by SA7700, being code-share partners on JNB-KUL i believe they can negotiate to use also JNB-EZE.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3380 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
If SA stop the flights, then MH will have all conditions to increase flights to EZE.
As pointed out by SA7700, being code-share partners on JNB-KUL i believe they can negotiate to use also JNB-EZE.

however I was under the impression that the South African authorities were the ones giving MH a hard time to increase their flights. From the same source, she told me that MH has been looking to increase flights for some time now and they always had a negative response from the SA authorities. Possibly this was because SA was planning to start their EZE route, but if it's true they'll drop it after the WC, then I presume authorities won't have a problem in the future.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineEx_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

When MH announced their Business Turnaround Plan c. 2006, all routes to the Americas were identified as unprofitable. Not sure if this has changed since then, but I have my doubts.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 8):
A good friend of mine works for MH here in Buenos Aires and according to her flights are always full, with a huge percentage of Chionese nationals heading back and forth to China

I bet the flow of Chinese nationals inbound to EZE is far larger than the outbound flow. When I worked at SQ we used to get large all-male groups of Chinese nationals on four separate return tickets: (1) China-BKK on a Chinese carrier; (2) BKK-SIN-KUL on SQ; (3) KUL-EZE on MH; and (4) often EZE-somewhere else in Latin America (eg Bogota, Lima, etc). Most of the travelers had never traveled before and were on newly issued passports (heck some even wore the same shirts as in their passport photos, perhaps indicating this was the only good shirt they owned). Their visas for their final and transit destinations would be in order, so there was no reason for us to deny carriage to them, but you just know that these men are being trafficked, probably to be indentured for a long time. I used to go home feeling very sad and angry whenever I encountered such instances of barely-disguised human trafficking; sad because my heart went out to the victims, and angry because I was powerless to do anything.


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3098 times:



Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 11):

I bet the flow of Chinese nationals inbound to EZE is far larger than the outbound flow

shw only tells me about the outbound since it's part of her job, as she doesn't manage inbound flights at all, but I wouldn't be surprised of what what you are saying



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3028 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
It's bad because they good into a situation where there's no way out... SA can increase service and "kill" MH.

Lipe, dont forget that SA operates EZE-JNB while MH links EZE and CPT.

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 11):
large all-male groups of Chinese nationals

Interesting enough in the recent "pardon" to illegal immigrants in Brazil, the Chinese came as no. 2 after the Bolivians. This gives a picture of the huge amount of Chinese staying oversatying their visa permit in Brazil.

http://www.abin.gov.br/modules/articles/article.php?id=5427

In terms of MH operations, it also indicates it yields must be very low, most certainly they fly on "fake return" tickets never using the flight back.

Rgs,


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 10):
From the same source, she told me that MH has been looking to increase flights for some time now and they always had a negative response from the SA authorities. Possibly this was because SA was planning to start their EZE route, but if it's true they'll drop it after the WC, then I presume authorities won't have a problem in the future.

While it may only last during the WC, its not a charter. Meaning I think SA sees potential for this route long-term even if its flying 1x week, so I doubt their government will weaken the screws on much. And the SA collaboration with MH will be to the extent they can get some of the Asia traffic on the SA aircraft too.

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 11):
Their visas for their final and transit destinations would be in order, so there was no reason for us to deny carriage to them, but you just know that these men are being trafficked, probably to be indentured for a long time.

Its very sad in some cases. Those individuals leaving China never really know what they are getting into.

Although it still is a trafficking operation regardless a lot of those Chinese nationals don't necessarily end up indentured. Many of them go work with other Chinese in small businesses across the region (for what locally are meager wages and long hours), but because of their individual hard work and entrepreneurial spirit they often end up establishing their own businesses similar to the ones they initially start out working for.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
In terms of MH operations, it also indicates it yields must be very low, most certainly they fly on "fake return" tickets never using the flight back.

EZE-CPT-JNB-KUL must be a good route to stand-by and/or upgrade on if that's the case.

[Edited 2010-02-03 13:12:57]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2805 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Thread starter):
interesting how they've chosen EZE over GRU as their South American link.

The long-serving (1981-2003) former Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir bin Mohamad, apparently owns a large ranch in Argentina. The story used to be that he had a lot to do with MH starting the KUL-EZE route, to make it easier for him to make his frequent trips to/from his property in Argentina.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1785 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2718 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
The long-serving (1981-2003) former Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir bin Mohamad, apparently owns a large ranch in Argentina. The story used to be that he had a lot to do with MH starting the KUL-EZE route, to make it easier for him to make his frequent trips to/from his property in Argentina.

Either he didn't have access to a long-haul private aircraft, or it would not have seemed appropriate to use it for such trips.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
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Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 10):
however I was under the impression that the South African authorities were the ones giving MH a hard time to increase their flights

It make sense as they establish the route a few months before. But lets wait and see the reaction of South African authorities after the WC. Even now, they are expecting less visitors then it's first predictions.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2529 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
It make sense as they establish the route a few months before. But lets wait and see the reaction of South African authorities after the WC. Even now, they are expecting less visitors then it's first predictions

According to my friend, flights right before and during the world cup are completely booked on MH, and I presume that the situation is similar on SA. I'm sure the fact that Argentina, Chile and Uruguay all will be playing in the wc, so the flights leaving from EZE come in very handy



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2334 times:
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Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
According to my friend, flights right before and during the world cup are completely booked on MH, and I presume that the situation is similar on SA. I'm sure the fact that Argentina, Chile and Uruguay all will be playing in the wc, so the flights leaving from EZE come in very handy

I'm sure EZE and GRU flights to South Africa during WC will be full, as well as JJ charter flights (expected to be from GRU and GIG) as well as potential LA charters. But on news, they are a little different:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/21/world-cup-ticket-sales

There's a story on WSJ or FT recently that i'm trying to find out.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting Ex_SQer (Reply 11):
When MH announced their Business Turnaround Plan c. 2006, all routes to the Americas were identified as unprofitable. Not sure if this has changed since then, but I have my doubts.

It stretches credulity, and airline economics, that a twice-weekly, three segment with only two available for sale, half-way around the world, makes money.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
The long-serving (1981-2003) former Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir bin Mohamad, apparently owns a large ranch in Argentina. The story used to be that he had a lot to do with MH starting the KUL-EZE route, to make it easier for him to make his frequent trips to/from his property in Argentina.

That would make a lot more sense.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5359 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 1):
The 2x weekly flight does really well between EZE-CPT/JNB on the passenger side. Its also carries a lot of South America-Asia (and vice versa) cargo, and they use a B744 Combi. MAS has a big cargo division so they can consolidate and distribute cargo efficiently at KUL.

MH got rid of their 744Ms years ago! They fly it with a full PAX 744. I've often thought they would be better to offer EZE via AKL or SYD, though I understand that would be a longer routing.

I've always heard this is a political route for MH!


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 21):
I've often thought they would be better to offer EZE via AKL or SYD, though I understand that would be a longer routing.

.. and with competition of AR and QF.



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1986 times:
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Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
and with competition of AR and QF.

The fact is EZE now have access to all potential directions with AR, QF, SA, MH, LH, AA, AF, and soon QR
Unless something different happens (like DXB-EZE), i can't see a big change.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 21):
MH got rid of their 744Ms years ago! They fly it with a full PAX 744. I've often thought they would be better to offer EZE via AKL or SYD, though I understand that would be a longer routing.
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 22):
.. and with competition of AR and QF.

Correct. I think that to serve better EZE MH could axe one of the stops (JNB or CPT) thus making KUL-EZE 1-stop market. Another alternative could be flying via Europe, eg KUL-AMS-EZE, but I dont have information on Argentina-Europe bilaterals.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
Unless something different happens (like DXB-EZE), i can't see a big change.

I think QR in EZE will certainly trigger EK to start EZE nonstop. What helps is that EZE is really ill connected to Asia. LH schedule does not fit well its FRA hub for Asian connections, which means the bulk of Asian connections are with AF or AA. There is certainly room for more players. QR will eat a big chunk of this market.

Rgs,


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