HummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 2881 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10413 times:
Welcome to the 24th Thread..I got a last minute request to dedicate this thread to our Professional Pilot's Association..
Jamaica Airline Pilots Association..
Cleared for take-off..
Then
JALPA was born in 1971 by the first nineteen Jamaican pilots employed to Air Jamaica (1968) Limited.
Those "founder " members were: Mark Royes, Lloyd Tai, Patrick Cousins, Russell Beek, Robert Hamaty, Michael Feanny, Andrew Campbell, Anthony Bowyer, Churchill Bodden, Pete Nash, John Edwards, Frank Laing, David Brandt, David McRae, Cyril Farquharson, Carl Rhoden, Andre Awhee, Chris Sherlock and Anthony Myers.
The historical first Annual General Meeting was held on May 13, 1971 at 33 Norbrook Mews, Kingston 8. Presiding over the meeting was Patrick Cousins, and minutes were taken by Michael Feanny. The outcome of the meeting saw the first elected Executive members being, Patrick Cousins (President) and Michael Feanny (Secretary).
At this first Annual General Meeting (AGM), the "Draft Contract" (prepared by Captain Mark Royes and First Officer Russell Beek), the Association's Constitution and By Laws, and the appointment of a Legal Advisor, Mr Anthony Levy were discussed.
This was the humble beginnings of the Jamaican Airline Pilots Association, and our continued success depends on our members unwavering support throughout these trying times that the entire airline industry in now facing.
Now
The Jamaican Airline Pilots' Association main mission is to provide representation on behalf of it members on matters that affect either individuals or the group as a whole.
In addition, we support the Adastra Gardens Basic School as our outreach to the community.
The Executive Team has 8 memebers with it's CEO Captain Russell Capleton..The other members are as follows..
Captain John Williams-PRESIDENT
Captain Dave Daniels-Vice-President
Captain Maria Ziadie-Haddad-Secretary
Captain Patrick Barnes-Treasurer
Captain Eric Robinson-Director
Captain Errol Gordon-Director
First Officer Alice Tabois-Director
Since we are on the topics of pilots..I would like to personally acknowledge Captain Lloyd Tai for his dedication to the "LoveBird"..
Captain Lloyd Tai, Senior Vice President Flight Operations
Captain Lloyd Tai, Senior Vice President Flight Operations has responsibility for the Flight Operations Department, managing the Company’s pilots; the Systems Operations Control Centre, including Crew Scheduling, which coordinates the movement of the flight crew; the Flight Dispatch group, responsible for Dispatch and Flight Watch of the aircraft worldwide; and Load Control responsible for aircraft weight & balance.
A senior captain with over forty years’ flying experience, Lloyd brings a vast reservoir of knowledge in the field of aviation. He previously served as Senior Vice President, Operations & DFO, and Senior Vice President, Technical Services. Lloyd’s employment with Air Jamaica spans some thirty six (36) years, dating back to 1970 when he joined as First Officer, after completing five years as a pilot with BWIA. He was promoted to Vice President in 1976.
With over 12,000 hours of flying time, Lloyd has served as an instructor on all aircraft operated previously and currently by Air Jamaica - DC8, DC9, B727, A300, A310, A320, A321 and A340 aircraft. He currently holds dual competency on A340 and A320 aircraft. A graduate of the University of Miami with a Masters in Business Administration, Lloyd is a member of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Aviation Industry Advisory Board, and a past member of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) Technical Committee.
Updates:
Jamaica Air Shuttle had it's launch on Jan 21st, 2010..
Jamaica recorded an increase in tourist arrivals for 2009 and anticipates similar growth pattern for 2010..
New air service from Spain will see the return of Air Pullmantur..
JM will suspend services to GND,HAV,NAS,CUR and MCO..
The JALPA has intensified it's effort to save "The Lovebird:...The OCG has reported it has requested pertinent information from the GOJ on JM's divestment...The GOJ has yet to respond...
Beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10519 times:
AirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10477 times:
Quoting HummingBird (Thread starter): Welcome to the 24th Thread..I got a last minute request to dedicate this thread to our Professional Pilot's Association..
An interesting theme there for lap 24.
Quoting HummingBird (Thread starter): Since we are on the topics of pilots..I would like to personally acknowledge Captain Lloyd Tai for his dedication to the "LoveBird"..
Captain Lloyd Tai, Senior Vice President Flight Operations
When JM had their 30 th Anniversary Supplement they did a detailed feature on Captain Lloyd Tai. Quite an impressive multifunctional staff member who serve the carrier well.
Quoting HummingBird (Thread starter): New air service from Spain will see the return of Air Pullmantur..
Pleased to see the return of Air Pullmantur at MBJ. That will mean two different carriers operating the B744 at Sangster International.
They can, but it would involve moving their ops from KTP-KIN...
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 2): An interesting theme there for lap 24.
Agree
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 2): When JM had their 30 th Anniversary Supplement they did a detailed feature on Captain Lloyd Tai. Quite an impressive multifunctional staff member who serve the carrier well.
I am impressed with his experience on different aircrafts...You rarely find pilots who have experience on DC8s and A340...
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 2): Pleased to see the return of Air Pullmantur at MBJ. That will mean two different carriers operating the B744 at Sangster International.
Wishfully hoping for a 3rd B744 operator for Russia..
It amazes me how the GOJ have been contradicting themselves over the last two weeks..In a message to the public, Mr Golding stated once JM is divested, they will no longer have any financial obligations to the entity..Now, we hear Mr Shaw stating the current negotaitions will involve a joint share-holding in the new entity..
Mr Shaw mentioned, only two entities showed an interest in JM..This contradict previous statements from Mr Wehby where he stated he has interests from "4 geographical locations..
Why would a proposal be considered "late", after the PM publicly met with the JALPA and the union..Mr Shaw is putting himself in a position where Jamaicans will be more passive towards this new venture..In the last thread, I have been sharing the public's comment on this travesty..If it happens, the GOJ decides to go this route, IMO, it is destined for failure......
A340Jamaica From Jamaica, joined Nov 2008, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10464 times:
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 3):
It amazes me how the GOJ have been contradicting themselves over the last two weeks..In a message to the public, Mr Golding stated once JM is divested, they will no longer have any financial obligations to the entity..Now, we hear Mr Shaw stating the current negotaitions will involve a joint share-holding in the new entity..
The Open Skies treaty is very clear and unambiguous. So I am waiting to hear the details. CAL, under the present agreement cannot take ownership and run JA to US routes except through a majority Jamaican owned and controlled subsidiary. If that is the case, it is highly likely JM's brand will remain. Should be interesting to see how they maneuver. I would support a code sharing relationship and see what that brings.
AirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10426 times:
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 3): It amazes me how the GOJ have been contradicting themselves over the last two weeks..In a message to the public, Mr Golding stated once JM is divested, they will no longer have any financial obligations to the entity..Now, we hear Mr Shaw stating the current negotaitions will involve a joint share-holding in the new entity..
Mr Shaw mentioned, only two entities showed an interest in JM..This contradict previous statements from Mr Wehby where he stated he has interests from "4 geographical locations..
Eager to hear the details of this joint share holding. The contradictions that have been illustrated several times goes back to what was said in the previous thread...The case of the left hand not having a clue what the right one is doing.
Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 4): The Open Skies treaty is very clear and unambiguous. So I am waiting to hear the details. CAL, under the present agreement cannot take ownership and run JA to US routes except through a majority Jamaican owned and controlled subsidiary. If that is the case, it is highly likely JM's brand will remain. Should be interesting to see how they maneuver.
Looking forward to see how they will address this issue as well. Interesting days are ahead.
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 3): Wishfully hoping for a 3rd B744 operator for Russia..
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22027 posts, RR: 51 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10389 times:
Hello fellas, greetings from California.
I see the JM soap opera continues, while the carrier shrinks ever more.
I see they are further reducing their fleet by 33% to 6 tails in the spring, and dropping service to Chicago, Grenada, Curacao, Nassau, Havana and Orlando. At this rate there seemingly will be no airline for anyone to take over!
I assume with these cuts, more staff is being let go, or is the government keeping everyone on the books for now?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5157 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10389 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6): I see the JM soap opera continues, while the carrier shrinks ever more.
As Air Jamaica Turns
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
Yesterday, Hummingbird and I listen to an interview being given by Audley Shaw who is the finance minister and we were left wondering what the heck the minister meant by the following statements.
......."Jamaica and Trinidad are negotiating a joint shareholders agreement"
Now, does this mean that Jamaica will get a 50% stake in Caribbean Airline which would technically meet some of the requirements in the Open Sky Agreement. The recent change in flight operations point to the lucrative routes that Trinidad wants.
BUT if this is the way the government is going to go then it CONTRAVENES the policy of the government to get out of ownership business and or financial connection both indirect and direct.
The government is correct in its approach in terms of continuing the talks with Trinidad as the law requirements them to do so.
They can not disregard this negotiate and simple take on JALPA - ONLY if there is a breakdown in talks.
So, I am awaiting the announcement before the next financial year for the GoJ begins - March 30.
BTW:
Air Canada has update there YYZ - KIN flight schedule and will be operating 4x weekly (tue, wed, thu, fri).
Air Transat will be operating daily charter flights during the summer on the YYZ - KIN - Titan Tours, the local agency will be publishing there flight times shortly. TS will be using there 310 on this route.
Sunwing has not inidcated as yet if it will continue its twice weekly service to KIN.
UPDATE:
Audley Shaw has indicated that the GoJ has received a last minute bid from an oversees party for the sale of Air Jamaica but the government is not looking at it.
What has the government done of late that would necessitates such an interest? Is this expression of interest a revised bid from Indigo Partners?
Secondly, the recent experience has shown that these international bids are not in the interest of the local economy or Air Jamaica as there intent is to bury the Air Jamaica brand.
BIG QUESTION:
Here is a quote from a recent post that I saw in the caribbean thread
...."Governments should not be running businesses, they are their to look after the people and their interest"
Can we get an explanation as it is such a huge contradiction. Because if it bear relevance to what I have been saying. This is like speaking from both side of the mouth.
Then why is the GoRTT running BW?
I get the impression that people forget that BW is government owned.
I have been consistent in saying that there are certain business that governments should not be running and is better serve if it is in private hands or the private sector.
JALPA and its equity partners falls right into that category.
OBSERVATION:
I think it is intellectually dishonest of some people to continue make the argument that the same predicaments that befalls Air Jamaica under Mr Butch Stewart will some how happens to the JALPA bid if it gains control.
Why would the GoJ enter into talks with JALPA using the same contract or terms and conditions?
For the record, AJAG had consisted of Mr Stewart and three other partners. Secondly, the agreement that AJAG
got did not state that the debt that they ran up should be there responsibility. So once they return the carrier the GoJ had to assume those debts and the trunk of JM debt was amassed during that time.
Thirdly, JALPA had indicated that its ownership of JM will be 100% and under no way they would be sourcing funds or capital from the government in the future as any contract with the government would state so categorically.
So, I find those posting that seeks to mis-inform quite mischievous and I wonder why they seek to do so.
Caribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2549 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10393 times:
What part of Government should not be in Business of running businesses at all you don't follow, more so in the Caribbean? What contradiction have I made when I made the statement. Instead of taking my statements and twisting it to your benefit I would advise you to think independently, because obviously you can think outside the box and look at things from an objectionable point of view.
Secondly why is it that persons here cannot come to terms that the Unions should never own nor run any airline. There have been enough examples out there to prove unions have run airlines to the ground.
I will never support a union running/owning an airline whether It be JM. BW, LI, EK or whoever.
HummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 2881 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10322 times:
Quoting A340Jamaica (Reply 4): Should be interesting to see how they maneuver. I would support a code sharing relationship and see what that brings.
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 5): Looking forward to see how they will address this issue as well. Interesting days are ahead.
Perhaps we may see another six months of "talk"..
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6): I see they are further reducing their fleet by 33% to 6 tails in the spring, and dropping service to Chicago, Grenada, Curacao, Nassau, Havana and Orlando. At this rate there seemingly will be no airline for anyone to take over!
I assume with these cuts, more staff is being let go, or is the government keeping everyone on the books for now?
The GOJ is still in negotiation to giveaway the carrier...The route cuts are presumably part of the plan to shrink the route network...
More staff cuts and redundancy payments will be announced soon...
This begs the question, what happens if the current negotiations breaks down??
Quoting JM079 (Reply 8): Air Canada has update there YYZ - KIN flight schedule and will be operating 4x weekly (tue, wed, thu, fri).
Air Transat will be operating daily charter flights during the summer on the YYZ - KIN - Titan Tours, the local agency will be publishing there flight times shortly. TS will be using there 310 on this route.
The Canada-Jamaica market is rapidly expanding and am not surprised to see the additional airlift...That would see a B767 and an A310 in KIN simultaneously..
Quoting JM079 (Reply 8): Thirdly, JALPA had indicated that its ownership of JM will be 100% and under no way they would be sourcing funds or capital from the government in the future as any contract with the government would state so categorically.
So, I find those posting that seeks to mis-inform quite mischievous and I wonder why they seek to do so.
I agree..Quoting YankeeJuliet where he mentioned
Quote: "If this deal is accepted, EADS has agreed to provide technical support on new airbus models as well as arrange attractive lease arrangements with a comsortium of european banks despite the fact that aircraft are traded in US dollars. Management and operational support will come from an unnamed source"..
Who in their mind would think a union could run an airline..The union is merely doing it's duty in representing the staff during these negotiations..
In a Flightglobal article, Air Tran predicts it will be adding more Caribbean destinations in the near future..
Quote: "Fornaro doesn't foresee AirTran building a significant Caribbean presence of 25 destinations, but he does forecast "continuous growth, perhaps two destinations a year".
The Caribbean currently accounts for roughly 6% of AirTran's market, and Fornaro expects that should expand to 10%-12% during the next 18 months. He explains AirTran's growth is "probably not on the same level as JetBlue, which is very strong in the ethnic New York market".
Fornaro explains when AirTran opens a new Caribbean destination it attempts to offer flights from Atlanta, Baltimore and Orlando "so we can get some efficiencies". Fornaro doesn't foresee AirTran building a significant Caribbean presence of 25 destinations, but he does forecast "continuous growth, perhaps two destinations a year".
"..
HummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 2881 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10306 times:
I now have access to a GDS..I have been comparing fares to Jamaica from various cities..For the rest of this thread, I will be posting the competitive fares being offered by carriers serving Jamaica..
Am using travel date Feb 8, 2010..
All fares are R/T
MIA-KIN
Amount $149..
ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
RES REQ 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS
OR AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER
Amount $190.
ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY
AFTER RESERVATIONS ALL SEGMENTS
MUST BE CONFIRMED
Amount $271.
ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
RES REQ 3 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS
OR AT LEAST 3 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER DEPARTURE FROM ORIGIN
*****************************************************************************************************************************************
FLL-KIN
Amount $149..
Carrier AA..
ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
RES REQ 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS
OR AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER
Amount $149
Carrier NK..
[ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
RES REQ 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 24 HOURS AFTER RESERVATIONS
WAITLISTING NOT PERMITTED
Amount $164
Carrier JM.
[ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
RES REQ 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS
OR AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER
WAITLISTING NOT PERMITTED
FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
7 days booking fares..
AA $230
JM $204
NK $200
3 days booking window..
AA $271
NK $271
JM $ 285
1 day booking window..
AA $311
JM $325
NK$ 311
[ADVANCE RESERVATION/TICKETING]
TKTG WITHIN 24 HOURS
AFTER RESERVATIONS OR AT LEAST 2 HOURS
BEFORE DEPART WHICHEVER IS EARLIER
WAITLISTING NOT PERMITTED
JM079 From Jamaica, joined Jan 2008, 2254 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10164 times:
It is important to point that the unions in Jamaica have never said they intent to own, run or manage Air Jamaica but what they have done is to give support to the efforts of the Pilot Association in there drive to take over the airlines.
Such a move will shift ownership from state control into the private sector which I must point out is where it should have been for the longest time.
There is huge confusion it seems in determining what is government owned and managed. In this case here all the carriers (KX, UP, JM, LI and BW) that operate in the English Speaking Caribbean are government owned and managed. Each carrier has a board of directors that the government appoints whose function among other things is to set or implement policy directives. The board appoints a CEO as in the case of BW or President in JM case whose responsibilitis are operational. In turn the CEO or President works with a team of managers to run each carriers.
So far now of us in this thread is of any of these carriers (KX,UP,JM,LI,BW) have out sourced the management of any of these carriers.
All of these carriers are government owned and managed.
BTW:
News is emerging that the domestic carriers - Jamaica Air Shuttle and Skylan Aiways are among the local investors that are providing the capital to JALPA in there quest to gain control of JM.
Prior to his departure to China the PM confirmed that his govenment had recieved JALPA business. That was also confimed by the Minister Finance yesterday.
Because of procedural matters there bid can not be looked it - understandable so as the government has to follow it own guides as Trinidad had submitted there bids ontime.
beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10189 times:
Quoting JM079 (Reply 12): Such a move will shift ownership from state control into the private sector which I must point out is where it should have been for the longest time.
When Butch Stewart owned JM was it not then in private hands.
Jamaicans have taken the matter of the divestment of Air Jamaica to the GORTT. In a letter address to the Prime Minister of Trinidad, Mr Patick Manning they have asked the Prime Minister to withdraw his country offer to buy Air Jamaica.
The Jamaicans have pledged to seek legal counsel and is willing to take the matter to the Privy Council (Court of Appeal) in the UK.
These people are really, man.
It is quite rare that you see such unanimous consensus on any subject matter amonst Jamaicans.
BTW: The IMF did approve the loan facility to Jamaica to allow the country to reorganise it self.
beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10144 times:
Quoting JM079 (Reply 14): It is quite rare that you see such unanimous consensus on any subject matter amonst Jamaicans.
I am certain it is only because it was Trinidad coming to the rescue. I am certain if it was some one from the UK or US there would not have been a sound sad to say. Now if trinidad granted your wish and the airline failed again and we refused to lend a hand you will hear quite a different story about how Trinidad did not come to the rescue and help out a fellow Caribbean fellow when in need.
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10121 times:
Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 13): When Butch Stewart owned JM was it not then in private hands.
Sure, but Butch/Sandals raped Air Jamaica all the way to the bank by offering "package deals", where the revenue went to the hotel "subsidiary", while the flight was basically "thrown in" by the airline "subsidiary" piling up debt. Customers were happy because they got "champagne flights", and European routes were served on debt-financed A340's...
Butch/Sandals knew very well that the GOJ would bail out JM, which was "too big to fail", so when JM's debt hit the tipping point, the bailout happened...
BTW, I hear it is common for JM crew to have a place to stay in Miami, but to have the airline reimburse them for hotel stays when "away from home"...
If it does work we take our lick and move on. But trust me we never give up.
Look at we are doing with our economy.
The economy model that successive governments have been pursuing - we have just throw that out the window and is about to embark on something quite different.
But here is a question for you?
Isn't it quite presumptious of you all think to that a take over of Air Jamaica will be a beacon of success?
Remember now that Air Jamaica operates on routes that has numerious competitors. Unlike BW that faces little or no competitions at all. Just take the BW rules sumpreme on that route to Port of Spain. JM on the other hand has to compete with six other carriers to Jamaica.
So you dont know if BW will be successful? Neither do I know if the idea being proposed by JALPA will be a success. But I support there efforts in trying .
Wow, I am totally in awe with this endorsement from this guy. Dr Alfred Sangster was the principal at the University of Technology. Having him comment on the issue has severely elevated the efforts of JALPA.
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10116 times:
Quoting JM079 (Reply 17): The economy model that successive governments have been pursuing - we have just throw that out the window and is about to embark on something quite different.
The PNP government of the last 10+ years saddled the country by basically borrowing money from "loan sharks" at exorbitant interest rates, and they "paid off" the debt by borrowing even more at even worse interest rates! It's called "rolling over debt".
Basically, they charged purchases to the country's credit card for over a decade, and now, the piper wants to get paid. The IMF is offering to loan Jamaica money at low interest rates to pay off those high-interest loans, but only if Jamaica can become disciplined about its spending.
I think it's stupid to tax corn meal and cooking oil to pay for the country's financial problems -- but I *DO* think it would make sense to raise taxes on cell phones (Digicel, LIME, Claro, ...), and other luxury items... because at the end of the day, chatting is a luxury -- eating is not.
OK, off the soap box (and probably have this post deleted for being off-topic...)
(Google for "Jamaica sovereign debt" if you want to understand what's going on.)
LOL, If you were in Jamaica and repeat that you would end being sued - Radio talks show host Wilmot Perkins said the exact thing and Mr Stewart promptly slapped him with a law suit.
This article is about a local business man effort to reopen his hotel in Mobay and I personally think it confirms what has been said that the pilots can raise the capital to fund there venture.
AA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3346 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10094 times:
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 10): Perhaps we may see another six months of "talk"..
I am inclined to believe that their March 31st deadline will be met, whoever they choose.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 8): Here is a quote from a recent post that I saw in the caribbean thread
...."Governments should not be running businesses, they are their to look after the people and their interest"
Can we get an explanation as it is such a huge contradiction. Because if it bear relevance to what I have been saying. This is like speaking from both side of the mouth.
Then why is the GoRTT running BW?
I get the impression that people forget that BW is government owned.
I think that in this very complex world, there are Government owned businesses and Government run businesses. In T&T the difference is clear. Gov't owned is simply financial backing, Government run equals inefficiency. I don't think anyone can say that BW is inefficient. They have the backing and support of the T&T Government, but all of the board members and the managers are allowed to run the airline as is it were private. It's a case of the Government being the sole shareholder, instead of BW being a publicly traded company- which I suspect it will be one day.
I understand the hesitation to have another Gov't own the airline, but this is the GoTT, and while we have seen a fall in revenues, we are still economically the strongest in the english-speaking Caribbean (and yes I am including Bahamas, Barbados etc). With still somewhat deep pockets and the (seemingly) right approach as to how an airline should be run, I don't think it's fair to lump BW in teh category of all other Government institutions.
Im not saying that this alone qualifies BW to take over JM, but I am saying that should there be some financial difficulty, I am certain that the GoTT will bail out, while the JALPA and unions will not be able to provide that financial assistance to the carrier.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 17): So you dont know if BW will be successful? Neither do I know if the idea being proposed by JALPA will be a success. But I support there efforts in trying
I do applaud the efforts- my problem is why weren't the unions co-operating 3 years ago? or 5 years ago? Why not save the carrier then? Where was all this support for JM. Why is the airline a skeleton of its former self. Simple, this has more to do with an anti-Trinidadian sentiment that has rooted itself in Jamaican society than any particular passionate love of JM. That's my opinion. Take it or leave it!
Minister of State for Foreign Affairs and Foreign Trade, Dr. Ronald Robinson in a recent interview, mentioned emotions cannot save JM and The G.O.J has to exercise fiscal responsibilities...
He further stated, The JALPA has to show proof it has the required required capital to keep the company running for more than six months..
Quote: "For them it is a very emotional thing. This is the part of Jamaica they can touch and they literally see on their soil over there, but for us it's not only emotional, it's a financial issue for us and so we have to weigh it," Dr. Robinson responded afterwards.
"Show us how you are going to run this thing. Ultimately, the company needs serious capitalization. You need to show how are you going to do that because, ultimately, if six months or a year down the road they run into trouble they are coming right back to the Ministry of Finance saying, we are about to shutdown, or they need a government guarantee to save the little piece of Jamaica that flies. That is not good accounting. we can't do that!" Dr. Robinson said.
Min of Finance, The Hon Audley Shaw has reiterated his position on the JM divestment...He clearly stated, The JALPA proposal will not be considered unless there is a breakdown in talks with the preferred bidder..He also stated, there is another bidder who is ahead of The JALPA bid..
Quote: Minister of Finance and the Public Service, the Hon Audley Shaw, says that the Jamaica Airline Pilots Association's (JALPA) interest in purchasing Air Jamaica could only be considered if there was a fall-out in current discussions with Caribbean Airlines, and failure to reach an agreement with the bidder next in line.
"Then we would have to reopen the bidding process so that others, whether JALPA or others who wish to bid, would be able to do so," he said, noting that there was at least one other interested party in the Air Jamaica sale, other than Caribbean Airlines
He also gave an undertaking that jobs will be available in all categories, even with the divestment.
"By virtue of Jamaica's strategic location, we will still have to have maintenance of planes; we will still have to have ground staff; we will still require air hostesses and pilots. That is an absolute fact," he noted.
AirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10040 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6): I see they are further reducing their fleet by 33% to 6 tails in the spring, and dropping service to Chicago, Grenada, Curacao, Nassau, Havana and Orlando. At this rate there seemingly will be no airline for anyone to take over!
There are certain routes that you will never see them axe: KIN - FLL, JFK, & YYZ for obvious reasons. Likewise MBJ - JFK . These routes will always be around unless they close the company completely.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 8): Air Canada has update there YYZ - KIN flight schedule and will be operating 4x weekly (tue, wed, thu, fri).
Air Transat will be operating daily charter flights during the summer on the YYZ - KIN - Titan Tours, the local agency will be publishing there flight times shortly. TS will be using there 310 on this route.
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 10): The Canada-Jamaica market is rapidly expanding and am not surprised to see the additional airlift...That would see a B767 and an A310 in KIN simultaneously..
Not surprised either. Wouldn't be surprised if AC up that frequency to daily.
Quoting HummingBird (Reply 10): Who in their mind would think a union could run an airline..The union is merely doing it's duty in representing the staff during these negotiations..
Quoting JM079 (Reply 12): It is important to point that the unions in Jamaica have never said they intent to own, run or manage Air Jamaica but what they have done is to give support to the efforts of the Pilot Association in there drive to take over the airlines.
As per the interview with Mr. Russel.....
'' Q: Do you believe your organization has the skill set to run the business end of an airline?
A: A team of professionals has already been identified, and would be employed to run the airline.''
Not certain why there is continuous assertions that the union said they wanted to '' own/run JM ''. They are just doing what is required of them representing the staff and also in support of the JALPA bid. There is a big difference with that and '' running JM '' IMHO.
Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 16): Sure, but Butch/Sandals raped Air Jamaica all the way to the bank by offering "package deals", where the revenue went to the hotel "subsidiary", while the flight was basically "thrown in" by the airline "subsidiary" piling up debt. Customers were happy because they got "champagne flights", and European routes were served on debt-financed A340's...
Butch/Sandals knew very well that the GOJ would bail out JM, which was "too big to fail", so when JM's debt hit the tipping point, the bailout happened...
Quoting JM079 (Reply 19): LOL, If you were in Jamaica and repeat that you would end being sued - Radio talks show host Wilmot Perkins said the exact thing and Mr Stewart promptly slapped him with a law suit.
Couldn't have said it better LimaNiner. Sometimes the truth hurts. As tomorrow is Bob Marley's birthday, the following song came to mind....'' Who The Cap Fit, Let Them Wear It ''. Happy Earth Strong Bob. Gone but not forgotten.
JM079 From Jamaica, joined Jan 2008, 2254 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10036 times:
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 20): I do applaud the efforts- my problem is why weren't the unions co-operating 3 years ago? or 5 years ago? Why not save the carrier then? Where was all this support for JM. Why is the airline a skeleton of its former self. Simple, this has more to do with an anti-Trinidadian sentiment that has rooted itself in Jamaican society than any particular passionate love of JM. That's my opinion. Take it or leave it!
I think it is worth repeating for historical accuracy as again opinions and views are being aired, which is everyone right, as to why we are here having this discussion
This information was given back in August of last year.
The pilots did not at the last minute decided to make a bid for Air Jamaica because the GoJ is in talks with Trinidad.
Captain Russell, JALPA president explained in an interview with RadioJamaica that when the government decided to divest Air Jamaica in 2008 it had indicated that Air Jamaica debt would have to be part of any deal with any propective buyer.
The GoJ changed that stipulation because it was becoming a major disincentive.
When that was revealed in August that the JM debt will now be absorbed by the GoJ - JALPA indicated there interest as they would now be able to make a competitive bid as the divestment conditions were now favorable. That position was confirmed over and over again including the recent statements from the finance minister that he was in receipt of correspondences from JALPA indicating there interest.
ANTI-TRINIDAD SENTIMENT
I have completely ignored for the longest time this position that because there is a concerted voice being expressed by
so many people about the sale of Air Jamaica to Trinidad that it amounts to Anti-Trinidad stands.
That argument is purely a figment of anyone imagination because it saids they have missed the essence of what these people are talking about.
I have not seen or read any posting denigrading Trinidad, its national airlines or its citizenery.
THE POSITION OF JAMAICAN IS THIS:
JM has been owned and managed by successive governments except for a five year span.
The company has been badly managed and owed billions.
We know our government can't continue to manage it because it has other priorities.
We feel that instead of selling it to outside interest the government should entertain
the JALPA led initiative because of how important JM is to the national economy.
The initiative of JALPA is a privately led one that will see a far more broad base
ownership structure that has access to capital from both local and international.
Unlike the last divestment exercise that saw a small group taking over - this time it
is a much broader one.
So, am asking where in that stands of the Jamaicans, does that constitute Anti-Triniadian sentiments?
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 20): Im not saying that this alone qualifies BW to take over JM, but I am saying that should there be some financial difficulty, I am certain that the GoTT will bail out, while the JALPA and unions will not be able to provide that financial assistance to the carrier.
Again, the Unions are not apart of any buy out of JM and for the life of me I can't figure out why this line continues to be used to justified a position.
As for the matter of JALPA possible seeking finances in the future and not being able to get it is a line again that I dont get.
The group want to take over the carrier and make it efficient and profitable - running it as a business.
It is rather a presumpticious stand, isn't it to state that they will not get financing. We don't know that.
Just like how I can't say that Trinidad will provide financial assistance to BW in the future if it gets into trouble.
So, that is a weak argument to use because in that quote below from an interview with JALPA they intent to get professional to run the airlines.
Did you expect the pilots to take over actual management of the carrier?
'' Q: Do you believe your organization has the skill set to run the business end of an airline?
A: A team of professionals has already been identified, and would be employed to run the airline.''
beeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9970 times:
You might not say it directly but in many of your statements and comments here you say it very indirectly and you just dont know it.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 23): THE POSITION OF JAMAICAN IS THIS:
Quoting JM079 (Reply 23): We feel that instead of selling it to outside interest the government should entertain
the JALPA led initiative because of how important JM is to the national economy.
Again if JALPA and Richard Branson made a bid for JM and the Govt went with Richard Branson would there be as much out cry to keep the carrier in national hands.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 23): Again, the Unions are not apart of any buy out of JM and for the life of me I can't figure out why this line continues to be used to justified a position.
Again so then what is JALPA = A UNION
Quoting JM079 (Reply 23): It is rather a presumpticious stand, isn't it to state that they will not get financing. We don't know that.
Whats being said if JM needs more financing will they be able to provide it not that they wont get financed.
Quoting JM079 (Reply 23): Did you expect the pilots to take over actual management of the carrier?
They might not but I am certain it would not be hands off. Reminds me of a small Mexican carrier some time ago called LaTour also owned by a pilots union and was very messy which lead to the airline folding.
25 Captaink: http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/article.php?news_id=21324 I would like to know who this other bidder is. And it seems the JALPA is still getting the b
26 JM079: LOOKING AT THE GOJ POINT OF VIEW: The reluctance of the GoJ, I think, to engage JALPA at this late stage in the game has more to do with meeting some
27 JM079: We are questioning that matter as it runs counter to what Bruce Golding has been saying that if the Trinidad bid fails then the government would enga
28 SCL767: There is no other bidder. According to Dennis Lalor, chairman of the Air Jamaica Divestment Committee, JM is currently working with Caribbean Airline
29 HummingBird: I agre..When I seriously consider these factual statements.. One has to wonder if The GOJ is looking at the long term effect of this new proposal....
30 A388: No it's not. It's a great and respected achievement but it's not rare at all. A388
31 AirJamaica: In this Gleaner letter the writer made references to Dr. Alfred Sangster's take on the divestment of the national carrier.... '' Alfred Sangster poin
32 a340Jamaica: Great video of the 340 approaching Mobay. We will be treasuring these clips. Let's hope they are successful but it is looking doubtful. The Open Skie
33 JM079: The fares will get much higher the closer you get towards your date of the departure. Suggest you confirm your fights from now. AirJamaica, with resp
34 SCL767: Very true. It's not rare at all! I know pilots that can fly both the DC-3 and the B772! But I like the picture of JM's A-343 6Y-JMC in the Thread Ope
35 HummingBird: The only problem is the travel dates, the week of July 4th is typically a expensive travel period and most airlines have blackout days..What I would
36 JM079: The GoRTT has revealed its vision of what it wants to achieve if its bid for Air Jamaica become a reality. The minister responsible for the carrier s
37 SCL767: Recent update in regards to CAL's take-over of Air Jamaica: Dennis Lalor, chairman of the Air Jamaica Divestment Committee stated, "We are working wit
38 beeweel15: According to the JM route map only CHI , HAV , NAS , CUR and MCO was left out of your question so tell us where does JM provide the massive airlift t
39 JM079: NO, the issue is not about JM route map but about this statement: .....""If Air Jamaica folded, the Jamaican Government would have to buy airlift to
40 a340Jamaica: Again, this age old dream of Caribbean integration. When will we realize that it is a dead dream of a bygone era. Observe what happens if/when CAL ta
41 JM079: I agree wholeheartedly that the dream of regional integration or regionalism is a bygone aspiration which if implemented is not going to work for dif
42 a340Jamaica: Clearly, the administrations in both countries understand that popular sentiment is AGAINST this deal!! That must hold some near future political imp
43 beeweel15: Well I suggest you reccomend to your Govt to withdraw from Caricom and that Jamaica will go it alone.
44 SCL767: Trinidadians are not upset by this "regional adventure". Trinidadians are accustomed buying Jamaican companies for nothing, then turning them into so
45 JMBWEEBOY: I try to keep my postings to a minimum but forgive me, I've got to get this off my chest! Where was also this pride and patriotic ferver for the flag
46 JM079: Your opinion is welcomed and will be respected. But, you are an outsider sitting on the periphery trying to tell us that a take over of our national
47 yellowtail: Observe what might happen if GoJ don't divest of it....the entire country (not just the airline) might be in trouble.
48 JMBWEEBOY: Sometimes objective advice from outsiders can be just what is needed. My own country, the US, ignored such advice in recent times and its image when
49 a340Jamaica: What is with it with you guys and integration? Nobody in Jamaica is saying we are not willing to cooperate on regional matters and be part of regional
50 ilanbwoy: I must admit..when i go away for a few days that when i come back...its great reading. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and thats what makes this
51 JM079: But it is not just local voices in Jamaica that have made this issue into a national one. Our disapora in the UK, US and Canada have all joined in th
52 a340Jamaica: I am generally pessimistic about future worldwide economic affairs in any case, particularly as it relates to energy and I have silently accepted the
54 JM079: Since we are told that it is only three of us in this thread then it is either going to me, AirJamaica or Hummingbird
55 HummingBird: Who DAT... Interesting posts will try to respond later...... JM employees and ICIs will have a peaceful march on Harbour Street to protest the "givewa
56 AirJamaica: How many people feel about the pending divestment of JM to BW is being reflected in the many letters flooding the editorial, electronic media etc. Thi
57 beeweel15: Ok will you satisfied with Caribbean Airlines "Jamaica" like LAN with Lan Chile , Lan Peru ( formerly Aero Peru I believe) , Lan Argentina ( Cant rem
59 BW424: It will be Caribbean Airlines Jamaica. LAN has all their aircraft painted in one standard livery. The only difference is the respective countries' re
60 SCL767: Actually, only LAN Argentina's and LAN Ecuador's a/c carry their respective countries' registration.
61 JM079: The action of the staff and the public in support of the JALPA seems to be working. The matter has also become a concern for the ICI who has come to
62 a340Jamaica: Bingo AirJamaica!! I will not likely use any replacement airline not named Air Jamaica and partly owned by Jamaicans in lieu of AA, DL, B6 etc. The c
63 a340Jamaica: This time, the remaining airline will not be called Air Jamaica. That automatically means fewer persons will feel a sense of connection. Some will go
64 caymanair: While I've tried to stay out of this debate as much as possible, I figured now would be as good a time as any to give my 2cents. Overall, I support Ca
65 Caymanair: Sorry about the strange characters in the last post... does anyone know how to get them to not appear? I wrote in MS Word and it appears to transfer j
66 HummingBird: Good Posts..What I find interesting is most persons are missing the bigger picture...In order for any airline to survive in a VFR market, the single
67 Speedbird2263: Very well said my good man. I must confess that I am a man with the best interests of the Jamaican people at heart and even more so the staff of the
68 beeweel15: So you if you was a devoted NW flyer with all your points and mileage etc now that DL, the airline you hate with a passion, has taken over will you n
69 scl767: What strides has Jamaican aviation made as compared to other CARICOM countries? Many CARICOM countries have made remarkable strides last year, e.g. B
70 HummingBird: This video will truly touch the heart of the Jamaicans who truly love JM... I was never a fan of the maroon and white uniform that was worn in the 80s
71 Speedbird2263: Man! Talk about the good ol' days. The blue uniform with that unique JM scarf looks absolutely classy and would still be a nice uniform in this day a
72 HummingBird: I agree..Am not sure if most of JM's current FAs would fit the full dress, lol...But still classy.. Yesterday B6 inaugurated sevicies from MCO-MBJ on
73 AA1818: A breath of fresh air and perspective. Welcome to my RR list! AA1818
74 SCL767: Quite refreshing...Hey guys, check out BWIA's route maps on the Caribbean Thread!
75 airjamaica: MIA has always been a hotspot for Jamaican ( and many other nations ) immigrants residing there, local visitors, business travelers, ICI's etc. But s
78 a340Jamaica: Bad example!! You assume I had JM FF points. I did not fly often enough with JM for FF points to be a consideration. Once or twice a year when headin
79 ilanbwoy: Jm has a nice sale going on today and tomorrow. I might take 1 last trip before it all ends.
80 AirJamaica: This former staff member of a large US carrier detail her opinion on the divestment of JM with her main focus being on their enviable safety record ov
81 Speedbird2263: I simply speak my mind when and where it necessitates mi amigos. Respect for the RR bra! I concur, I myself am looking forward to taking a trip in
82 A388: Very well said Speedbird2263!!! I also tried to stay out of the discussion but JM can't hold their own with all their debts. I continuously read Jama
83 JM079: Just for clarity. The pilots have statd that they intent to buy JM and run it. They want to develop there own model using the JM brand. They have sai
84 JM079: UPDATES 1/ Bruce Golding announced earlier today that Jamaica and Trinidad will miss the deadline to complete talks about the sale of JM due to proble
85 a340Jamaica: I had the pleasure of a short flight on the 300 from YUL to YYZ over the Christmas. Nice aircraft indeed. I actually went out of my way connecting wh
86 a340Jamaica: Still curious how they are going to weasel their way around this and escape the attention of the big ole US especially if ex staff/disgruntled person
87 Caymanair: I already addressed that issue... if there was no way around it then most of the previous companies reportedly "interested" in JM would experience th
88 JM079: The Prime Minister in his talk to the Parliament has given an indication as to where the talkings are heading and what Jamaica is expecting from the
89 JM079: Am really looking forward in flying Air Canada as they have become one of my favorite carrier Air Canada has emerged from a period when it was so det
90 Caymanair: I did see all of this. It seems there is an understanding by the Gov't that they will be maintaining an interest in the company. Just pointing out th
91 hummingbird: Take some pics...I have heard positive feed backs from those who have experienced AC's B777ERs This statement from Mr Golding will be grossly misinte
92 a340Jamaica: If you go back through my posts, I was always opposed to foreign rebranding. I expressed it when the Virgin Jamaica idea came up as well as others. Y
93 JM079: Jamaicans don't have a problem with the sale of Air Jamaica, what they are oppose to is the solution that the government has braced for the national
94 Caymanair: I was also present in several of those meetings and spoke to Don Wheby among others on three separate occasions regarding the divestment. Perhaps its
95 Drbird: Hello Y'all So it has been confirm that the JM brand will not be apart of the divestment package being negotiated with BW. The brand will be retain by
96 a340Jamaica: You know, come to think of it. This agreement may be reason the previous talks failed. It is hard to get around this wording actually. The only one t
97 Speedbird2263: I feel the same however unfortunate it might be mi amigo.
98 Caymanair: Something like that could be a good compromise. Perhaps the integration needs to be more intense.... the way TACA is one company made up of different
99 JM079: [quote=Caymanair,reply=94] Long term, I don't see how the BW bid doesn't automatically come out ahead. The highly emotional rhetoric being blurted out
100 hummingbird: These are the pics from the inaugural B6 flight to MBF from MCO... http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/sets/72157623254623995/ MBJ will get a triple
101 JM017: An excerpt from the Jamaica Gleaner: "Golding noted it was made clear in the negotiations that the Air Jamaica brand was not for sale, as this would b
102 a340Jamaica: The more I read about it, the more I realize that the Open Skies agreement is the driving force. It is becoming clear what is happening!! By the way,
103 JMBWEEBOY: Somehow I suspect the above suggestion is unlikely but would surely be a very statesman like move if this were attempted. JMBWEEBOY
104 a340Jamaica: Correction, other categories of workers on strike. Not pilots.
106 yellowtail: Good post Caymanair! I think I am going to go on strike in the Jamaican thread until this JM debacle is over I stay away for a day and I miss a great
107 Speedbird2263: Ah Touche!, as that I will try to do today.
108 JM017: Okay. A little better. Still, how does this help?
109 JM079: In yesterday's update that Bruce Golding gave on the divestment on fhe JM sale exercise there was this major news item which some how got lost in the
110 beeweel15: He does not have to insist that the Jamaican Public be given the opportunity to invest. The Jamaican Public can invest anywhere in the world they wan
111 hummingbird: Pic of FL500 arriving from BWI..They recieved a water salute.. Today, there will be 4 FL flights on the ground in MBJ..Next stop should be KIN... Pic
112 AirJamaica: Based on the contents of the Open Skies Agreement it was bound to be an issue as it relates to the divestment process. Not in the law fraternity eith
113 JM079: There is indeed an industrial action going on at the moment at SIA but this is from the ground handlers. OBSERVATION: On a pure economic level with r
114 aa1818: The GoTT has been slow to take companies public, and quick to bring them under State ownership (while not interferring- see Republic Bank Ltd.). I am
115 a340Jamaica: I respectfully do not think the economies of scale under a single carrier will be that great or at least not much greater than separate carrier opera
116 JM079: Bruce Golding is about to committ political sucide as the content of the non-binding agreement has been reveal which called for Caribbean Airlines to
117 JM079: There is now additional information available to the public with repect to the non-binding agreement that the GoJ has signed with Trinidad. http://www
118 JM079: The Jamaica Tourist Board has released two new commercials across North American as a part of its strategy to increase visitor arrivals. The next phas
119 a340Jamaica: [ Good luck to them on this one in particular.
120 hummingbird: Thanks..I was able to get shots from the cockpit and the cabin....These are the remaining shots... --------------------------------------------------
121 beeweel15: The A320 you took those pics from I hope it was a JM plane and not a B6 aircraft.
122 AirJamaica: The scenery and concept of the ad is not bad but I too was expecting a little more. '' The carrier is operating daily flights from Atlanta and Baltim
123 a340Jamaica: You know JM079, even if I were in favour of the merge, I could not support the terms being referenced. They are really horrible from Jamaica's point o
124 JM079: BTW: Arrive in YVR on Air Canada. The 777 is a great plane from Boeing . I prefer it over the 747. Jamaica is in the Winter Games this year - the bobs
125 hummingbird: Both flights will operate 4 weekly..In summer, B6 will upgrade the services to daily.. In the pictures I posted, the inbound FL flight's water salute
126 a340Jamaica: Seriously, if the government signs an agreement like this and gets this little in return, they are even more stupid than I thought. This would catapu
127 beeweel15: The government owns the route rights not JM. The Govt of Jamaica can designate any one to be its national carrier. That carrier will have the privial
128 hummingbird: I understand how you feel..But there is more to come..There is a reason behind absorbing the debt and not entertaining the JALPA proposal..Also, that
129 a340Jamaica: Beewee, please read the Open Skies agreement between Jamaica and the United States of America. It is not as simple as you say, at least not for US-Ja
130 SCL767: REALLY? Caribbean Airlines Limited (CAL), as the national flag carrier of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago already holds route exemption between,
131 JM017: I could understand the need for some of the conditions as stated in the agreement. It stings, but I can understand from the point of view that it was
132 JM079: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pokFsD1VHew&feature=related (classic JTB ad) I saw this classic JTB ad from 1978- wow Let me ask you this question.
133 beeweel15: I think SCL767 answers this Also a little history lesson for you BW had many of those route authorities before JM was around
134 BW424: I would expect BW to employ Jamaicans in KIN. Saves more jobs as well as it is cheaper.
135 SCL767: Yep, like I previously stated, it was British West Indian Airways who brought Air Jamaica into the "jet-age". BWIA also operated KIN-BZE, KIN-GCM, KI
137 a340Jamaica: Most Jamaicans are aware that BW was around and served Jamaica before and immediately after independence. I certainly am aware of that. I am talking a
138 hummingbird: I was looking at these two video on youtube.. This one was filmed when JM operated the MBJ hub... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaHsyqSQjfM This vide
139 beeweel15: YES YES again. The put is basically the agreement means that any us carrier , JM or Jamaica's designated national carrier can fly to any point betwee
140 AirJamaica: Heard the theme song many times growing up but don't remember viewing the video. Interesting. Lol. You are quite correct with that observation. It ce
141 JM079: Trindad and Jamaica currently does not have a Air Service Agreement. Under the 1977 revised agreement which sets up the Multilateral Air Services Agr
142 beeweel15: Ok with as you said CARICOM STATES that is NOT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA two seperate entities.
143 AirJamaica: B6 really mean business in MBJ. Wasn't aware that their flight 893 from BOS is scheduled for such a late afternoon arrival at 3:45pm. Very delayed to
144 JM079: Don't understand what you mean here. But see my response above; Trinidad does not have a current air service agreement with Jamaica because in 1977 a
145 beeweel15: You are confusing air service agreements between CARICOM countries and between Jamaica and the USA. As per USDOT information info SCL767 provided whi
146 JM079: As per the 1977 revised Air Service Agreement that Caricom agreed on ...Trinidad does not hold that route exemption anymore. That blanket exemption ca
147 a340Jamaica: OK Beewee, we will see what and whose countries agreements will prevail. The Open Skies agreement is clearly mutually incompatible with what is being
148 caribbean484: Open Skies is a bilateral agreement, meaning that two countries must agree to the terms and conditions of the agreement set fort. If one country sees
149 a340Jamaica: Not when I read the Open Skies agreement!! I see nothing to indicate that Jamaica's designated national carrier can fly to any point between Jamaica
150 a340Jamaica: The question then becomes what replaces it? Do you go back to what 1977 I think which still would not grant BW the rights that would enable a true hu
151 Caymanair: Boy, what a long and rocky road..... The only part of this agreement that bugs me is that Jamaica gets only 10% (although due to the wording, I strong
152 Caymanair: Yes, I realize that wasn't my best effort at making a point. What I mean to say, using the above examples, is the perception is everything. If BW and
153 JM079: It is globalisation, that's all it is. But your point is well taken. All of this boils down to perception because if Trinidad had come on board and s
154 AirJamaica: A writer suggest that JALPA hit the ground running by starting up their own carrier since they have not been given a favourable response by the Govern
155 a340Jamaica: I have a sneaking suspicion that's what is going to happen. A lean, clean sheet carrier running about 4 or 5 aircraft operating to FLL, MIA, JFK, YYZ
156 a340Jamaica: I am pretty sure the institutional investors are generally US financial institutions and I am also pretty sure that more than 50% of the ownership is
157 yellowtail: So please enlighten me...could BW do KIN-BZE-GUA for example under the current agreement
158 beeweel15: So are you suggesting similar Jamaican companies and the Government not indulge in such fiduciary behaviour. The Govt of Jamaica is taking those step
159 a340Jamaica: You bet I am suggesting that. Especially insurance companies handling pensions and other stuff. I would contribute money to a lean operation on the b
160 a340Jamaica: On another note, was just reading the thread re the JM Chicago route cut and I was surprised at the general level of goodwill that some Americans hold
161 Speedbird2263: Ditto mi amigo, Ditto. I personally think JM has more brand recognition than does Caribbean Airlines ATM. If there was just someway to save the brand
162 JM079: Read that too but look at the comments from the posters from the Caribbean. What a contrast. http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Moss-solomon-Feb-
163 hummingbird: Updates.. CO now operates two flights on Sat from EWR for the month of Feb...The other flights operate on Mon,Wed and Sun.. Today there were 3 flights
164 beeweel15: Now was JM making money on the route. You can fly a plane 100%with passengers and not make money.
165 Captaink: I wish someone would enlighten me.. I am seeing on the JM/Chicago thread, that it is set that BW will have JM by July 1, 2010.. When did this happen?
166 A388: My apologies for not following the entire thread but how much finances does the JALPA have to save JM and where is that money coming from? Who are the
167 a340Jamaica: I was not referring to profitability. I am referring to the uphill battle CAL will have re visibility to Americans and to convincing Jamaicans that t
168 hummingbird: Encouraging and refreshing news from Kingston....The JALPA has scehduled a press conference for later today where they will highlight their next moves
169 JM079: JALPA is moving ahead in the next stage of its drive to take over JM. The pilots will hold a press conference today to outline its next move. In the m
170 SCL767: As previously stated, JALPA will not "acquire" JM. The airline is currently flying empty planes and route losses are increasing significantly; while
171 hummingbird: Since no deal has been signed and The Jamaican Tax Payers are footing the bill..Perhaps you should let them worry about JM and JALPA...
172 SCL767: [ IIRC, the IMF had certain stipulations in order for the GOJ to get the loan. One of those stipulations was to "divest JM". Since the IMF has release
173 hummingbird: Highlights from the JALPA Press Conference: They envision a first year loss with profitability in the second year... Avaition Professionals will be hi
174 yankeejuliet: CAL will not get the level of support as did JM as a national flag carrier. CAL has no intrest in Jamaica's welfare as a tourist destination, their on
175 JM079: It is becoming increasingly unlikely that the GoJ and Trinidad will sign an agreement to see Trinidad takes over Air Jamaica. The news from the press
176 JM079: Michael Clarke, Airline consultant, Atlanta, GA writes to the editor of the Gleaner castigating the GoJ for signing a non-biding agreement with Trinid
177 JM079: CAL-AIRJAMAICA DEAL ON HOLD ..."IN the last few weeks there have been several assurances, both in Kingston and Port-of-Spain, that the debt-ridden, st
178 beeweel15: So what you are saying is that you perfer visibility to profitability. That is extremely ambitious not even Jetblue or Virgin America was able to rea
179 AirJamaica: I have no doubts whatsoever that they would get support from the diaspora at home and abroad if they are able to successfully initiate this process.
180 A388: Finally someone answers my question (partially). Now I wonder where that USD 60 million is coming from. Who's backing this money? I assume the GoJ wo
181 beeweel15: Just to let you know BW is interested in the Caribbean as a whole . Kingston is not the only place a hub can be built up. BW will not do anything to
182 JM079: [quote=beeweel15,reply=178] He is with Sabre which is owned by AMR who owns American Airlines one of your biggest competitors. What he has to say is e
183 JM079: Why is that am ambitious plan when Caribbean Airline reported had the same plan in which they would made a loss in the first year and a profit in the
184 JM079: JALPA has just recieved the endorsement of the Jamaica Hotel and Tourist Association (JHTA) to continue there fight to get the GoJ to entertain there
185 A388: Why is it that I continuously get the impression that Jamaicans just don't want Trinidad (or Caribbean Airlines for that matter) taking over JM? An o
186 a340Jamaica: Beewee, did you read what I stated? My, this is getting tiring. Where did I say that I prefer visibility to profitability? I was simply stating that
187 beeweel15: Maybe because with Indigo they were getting less than what BW is giving them. I am certain with Indigo they were not getting 10% of the new company o
188 a340Jamaica: Jamaicans don't want JM, while insolvent to just be given away and then be simply disrespected by any foreign entity. There is also a strong suspicio
189 beeweel15: Firstly It would be easy for CAL because the tourists dont recognise JM like that they know the island yes but the airline not that good. as a matter
190 Caymanair: This whole debate is becoming foolish again... the same people are hammering the same arguments over and over. Might I suggest we all just cool it and
191 a340Jamaica: Of those that are mentioned, SDQ is the only one that is geographically feasible from BW's point of view. AUA, CUR too far south and ANU too far east
192 beeweel15: Lets look at Ryanair in Eurpoe. They are an Irish company Engilsh Spaeking and lets see they have bases in France , Brussels - French Speaking , 5 ba
193 JM079: For the record for the last time. No one is begrudging Trinidad or Caribbean Airlines and no malicious intent is around here. The intensity of our op
194 Speedbird2263: Oh no mi amigo! The tropics are known for our wonderfully warm and at times searing heat but in any case, quite a bit of an improvement over the cold
195 Speedbird2263: Here's an interesting article about the impending cut of the NAS route by JM. Prospects slim for private carriers to take up Nassau to Kingston route
197 JM079: UPDATE: JAMAICA WILL GET A NEW NATIONAL CARRIER IF EFFORT TO GET AIR JAMAICA FROM THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT MATERIALISE. ........."WHILE DECLARING its i
198 hummingbird: I expect to see more traffic once the new Secret Hotel opens in March.. I would expect an all airbus fleet with a high density config to be used on c
199 A388: Thanks for the explanation JM079. To clarify my observation for believing the grudge against Trinidad is based on what I've read so far in the Jamaic
200 yellowtail: I think (with regard to this whole JM thing) we need to remember the moral of the story with the dog and the bone whose sees the bigger bone in the ri
201 Captaink: That sounds interesting. Jamaican Airlines, AeroJamaica so as not to have the same name as the first. Or what is going to be done to the current JM b
202 a340Jamaica: A388, It may be hard to explain to an outsider. As I have stated in posts from months ago, Jamaicans are very loud, very assertive, etc. etc. and JM
203 JM079: Great you add some feed back to this matter> As I am a litte bewildered as to where the matter of grudge comes into play as we have been nothing b
204 JM079: It is becoming more and more likely that by the end of March of the GoJ will have to discontinue there talks with Trinidad for the sale of Air Jamaica
205 A388: Okay I'm still not that much convinced but I'll leave it to time to see what will happen to JM. In any case I hope everybody will benefit from the (ev
206 JM02: Well the contractor general just replied to the Pilots and told them that if the GOJ abandoned the BW negotiations and usurped their own tendering pr
207 a340Jamaica: OK A388. Jamaicans hold a gridge against Trinidadians in the same way that Brazil and Argentina grudge each other in World Cup football or Florida St
208 A388: That's a one time event, comparing apples with pears. Universities are competitors from a business point of view. JM apparently is "iconic" so it mus
209 Inbound: I have a question... Should J.A.L.P.A. fail to secure the bid for saving JM and/or the Pilots remain adamant about forming a new national airline... d
210 JMBWEEBOY: Regretably, I am afraid where this is all going. And if that ends up happening, ultimately the Jamaican people lose. I am not Jamaican, I am not Trin
211 A388: Finally someone talking with sense about the JM situation. This is what I was getting to and nobody answered my latest reply. I also got the impressi
212 JM079: And none of the profit stays in our country to facilitate growth and to ensure our economy expand. And you are implying that these mega buck can't be
213 JM079: The decision of the government to follow procedures is well within the law - I have never disputed. The employees also has rights as well - Jamaica i
214 a340Jamaica: I am just trying to give you the Jamaican point of view. Which would you prefer? A foreign carrier, which while providing 350 jobs will not be provid
215 hummingbird: If I had seen this earlier, I would have made every effort to attend.. The JALPA will attend a Town Hall meeting in Lauderdale Lakes, Florida..Accordi
216 Caymanair: One thing I know for sure is that this entire process has caused Bruce Golding's government to loose a LOT of credibility. Did they not realize these
217 AirJamaica: In that same breath, a word of advice to Mr. Golding could also be '' Not all that glitter is gold '' '' Jamaican Airlines '' would be my choice for
218 yellowtail: Are you sure about that? IT provides jobs to locals....they are shipping their cash overseas...provides tourism traffic to hotels....BW will buy fuel
219 A388: Precisely, the opinions among some posters here are very one-sided and only wanting JM to be in local hands, nothing more. As much as I can imagine t
220 Captaink: I must admit, while I have given up the ghost, and have accepted that Caribbean Airlines taking over JM may not be a bad thing, I think most people a
221 JM079: None of the profit stays in our country to build our society and to ensure that our economy grows I would have thought that an air of objective would
222 A388: If these people are so emotional because of the JM debts, why keep JM in local hands which apparently until now has only made debts bigger and bigger
223 JM079: Again, your last post clearly indicates that the matter of the sale JM needs to be explain. I hope I can show some light. Air Jamaica is government o
224 A388: I totally agree on that and thank you for the explanation. My question remains though, based on what I've read here, are the funds the JALPA has suff
225 Caymanair: Whoever gets JM, I'm certain it will resemble what BW has in mind. The staff will be reduced to around 350, because that is the number required to run
226 A388: That's my question as well. Good observations and certainly something locals need to think of before taking over JM. The aviation industry is a high
227 JM079: Let me ask this? Isn't there suppose to be some new airline that recently started in your country or I think it could be Cur? And before that I think
228 JM079: I think we need to stop trying to be big brothers here as the tone here implies that these people in Jamaica don't know what they are doing. I made t
229 a340Jamaica: Of course the Jamaicans' opinions are going to be one-sided. They are the ones primarily being affected. How could anybody expect otherwise. What is
230 a340Jamaica: Agreed 100%. And what Jamaicans are saying is that they would prefer that the reduced size airline is a Jamaican entity 100% operated out of Jamaica.
231 beeweel15: They did not act the the way Jamaicans are acting. They knew Swissair was a private airline already before it went belly up and looked at the situati
232 caribbean484: Good evening gentlemen, I have a few questions and I hope persons can answer it for us, no emotions just straight thinking please as we have seen the
233 JM079: Air Jamaica debt was the main reason. The previous owners were not legally obligation to any debt that JM incurred while it was under there ownership
234 a340Jamaica: The issue though is that they did not come from out of the blue. I first heard about their bid late last summer when apparently the terms of the sale
235 JM079: Are you asking me or telling me? I was living in Switzerland when Swiss Air collapsed. The of the name airline is Swiss International Air Lines. Quit
236 caribbean484: You're both right, Crossair acquired the assets of LX from its creditors, and then called themselves Swiss, short of Swiss International airlines, si
237 JM079: Prime Minister Bruce Golding has released a statement dismissing JALPA attempt to take over Air Jamaica. Mr Golding is continuing his campaign of disc
238 beeweel15: Please JALPA if you have the money start your airline and stop the talking back and forth.
239 A388: I don't mind who starts up an airline here in CUR as long as it's well run. I welcome any airline, locally or foreign, to start up here. Insisting on
240 hummingbird: At this point, Mr Golding is sending a mesage which will further aggravate the society...I don't appreciate the manner in which he is disseminating t
241 hummingbird: Tran To The Bay...Jamaican Thread 25 (by hummingbird Feb 18 2010 in Civil Aviation) New Thread is ready..
Sponsor Message: 
From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 2881 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1693 posts, 
From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2549 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
